Removing levels 1-50

PaixRomanus

What are your thoughts on removing levels 1-50? They seem redundant now that we have 660 champion points. I know level 1-50 is important because of attribute points, which makes it tricky but I do think new players should be started at CP 1 and work toward CP 660 rather than have to essentially level up 710 times with 50 of those times providing little benefit except for attribute points. This would mean that your class skills and weapon skills wouldn't be 50, and would need to be leveled up like normal, but for someone with 660 CP they can already assign their CP right after character creation so for a lot of people level 1-50 is a tedious grind. Again the attribute points are a point of contention since you earn them at level 1-50 so that would be tricky but what are thoughts about this?

zaria

No its an bad idea.
Take an cp160+ character you have who you have not leveled both magic and stamina skills on, now switch to the other and reset all CP points.
Stuff everything in the bank, only use dropped gear, food and potions.
No skillpoints into the guild skills.
Try solo an dolmen

altemriel

PaixRomanus wrote: »

What are your thoughts on removing levels 1-50? They seem redundant now that we have 660 champion points. I know level 1-50 is important because of attribute points, which makes it tricky but I do think new players should be started at CP 1 and work toward CP 660 rather than have to essentially level up 710 times with 50 of those times providing little benefit except for attribute points. This would mean that your class skills and weapon skills wouldn't be 50, and would need to be leveled up like normal, but for someone with 660 CP they can already assign their CP right after character creation so for a lot of people level 1-50 is a tedious grind. Again the attribute points are a point of contention since you earn them at level 1-50 so that would be tricky but what are thoughts about this?

lol, nope

Getern

If I could decide on that y'all would have to grind ur asses till v16. Reason? Simple, play one class, focus on it. Make that character to be ur reflection, something what makes u recognizable by that. Want more? Grind till v16 all classes u want just like we all used to do back in day and stop whining.

Feanor

Maybe we should just all play with the PTS templates. No leveling up needed. Do we have stupid ideas week again?

PaixRomanus

Getern wrote: »

Grind till v16 all classes u want just like we all used to do back in day and stop whining.

I did grind to v16 on three characters and it sucked, not whining just asking a question

PaixRomanus

Feanor wrote: »

Maybe we should just all play with the PTS templates. No leveling up needed. Do we have stupid ideas week again?

No need to be arrogant. Answer the question by explaining why it's a stupid idea instead of being an immature little ***. Just a suggestion

PlagueSD

Not only no, but HELL NO.
Level 1-50 - learn your character
Level cp1 to cp160 - learn your rotations & Game mechanics
level cp161 to cp660 - farm your gear.

Feanor

@PaixRomanus

It's pretty clear why your idea is bad. By having levels 1 to 50 you force people to at least get acquainted a bit with their character and the game mechanics. Now you could say they can do that as well while leveling up to CP 660. In that case there will be just more low levels that get excluded from group content. I agree the grind to v16 sucked. But the system we have now is a good compromise.

Peacatcher

For me the levelling up process, learning new skills, gradually building my character etc is the best part of the game. I do quests and rarely focus on end game and don't like grinding/farming. So I'm happy with having levels 1-50. I'd probably prefer the old veteran ranks to the champion system although I never managed to get to level 50 before the changes.

PaixRomanus

Okay so generally speaking most think it's a bad idea, which is fine. I was just curious

wenchmore420b14_ESO

IMO, Having to play through levels 1-50 have many benefits,
You learn how to play for one. I see so many cp630 players running around who just grinded straight through who have no clue how to play their class or how to use their skills properly.
If CP is the only thing, all you have to do is get l50 on one toon. You start a new toon, it may be Level 1, you still have access to ALL the CP of your L50 toon.
Also, the story line connected to leveling through 1-50...
Just my two drakes...

Feanor

@PaixRomanus

I also apologize for my tongue-in-cheek reply. Wasn't meant to come across rude. Sorry.

PaixRomanus

Feanor wrote: »

@PaixRomanus

I also apologize for my tongue-in-cheek reply. Wasn't meant to come across rude. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about. I'm sorry I was rude in my response as well.

seedubsrun

As someone who has leveled many characters up I would love to be able to skip the 1-50 grind. You can only do the storylines so many times before they get repetitive and once you know the gameplay, questing and overland combat will never be hard again no matter your level (certain world bosses aside).

My opinion will likely be on the unpopular side but I feel like negative comments would come from those that are just used to that being what a game like this is. That doesn't mean Zos couldn't be different. I mean, aside from using 1-50 to learn the ropes and such it doesn't really do anything for you except make it take longer to get into the stuff you want to get into. Most people leveling a new toon just want them to get to 50 as soon as possible anyway. A lot of new players are the same way. As the CP cap increases that makes the task before a new player even more daunting so why not just start right away. Get attribute points every 2 CP earning extra at certain points of the progression. Your skills can still level 1-50. You'd still have to get through 160 CP before you could hold onto any end game gear. Maybe it's a horrible idea and I'm totally wrong but I'd be more into folks supplying actual reasons why it's a bad idea instead of just insulting OP or saying "lol, nope" and then peacing out.

PaixRomanus

seedubsrun wrote: »

As someone who has leveled many characters up I would love to be able to skip the 1-50 grind. You can only do the storylines so many times before they get repetitive and once you know the gameplay, questing and overland combat will never be hard again no matter your level (certain world bosses aside).

My opinion will likely be on the unpopular side but I feel like negative comments would come from those that are just used to that being what a game like this is. That doesn't mean Zos couldn't be different. I mean, aside from using 1-50 to learn the ropes and such it doesn't really do anything for you except make it take longer to get into the stuff you want to get into. Most people leveling a new toon just want them to get to 50 as soon as possible anyway. A lot of new players are the same way. As the CP cap increases that makes the task before a new player even more daunting so why not just start right away. Get attribute points every 2 CP earning extra at certain points of the progression. Your skills can still level 1-50. You'd still have to get through 160 CP before you could hold onto any end game gear. Maybe it's a horrible idea and I'm totally wrong but I'd be more into folks supplying actual reasons why it's a bad idea instead of just insulting OP or saying "lol, nope" and then peacing out.

Well it's real tricky because for me at 855 CP I probably won't have to worry about grinding out CP again, but leveling up can get annoying. It was more of a thought exercise to see where the community sat on the issue. It's clear that it's not a good idea from the comments, but I think it does have some value and I doubt I'm the only one who has thought of this.

seedubsrun

PaixRomanus wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

As someone who has leveled many characters up I would love to be able to skip the 1-50 grind. You can only do the storylines so many times before they get repetitive and once you know the gameplay, questing and overland combat will never be hard again no matter your level (certain world bosses aside).

My opinion will likely be on the unpopular side but I feel like negative comments would come from those that are just used to that being what a game like this is. That doesn't mean Zos couldn't be different. I mean, aside from using 1-50 to learn the ropes and such it doesn't really do anything for you except make it take longer to get into the stuff you want to get into. Most people leveling a new toon just want them to get to 50 as soon as possible anyway. A lot of new players are the same way. As the CP cap increases that makes the task before a new player even more daunting so why not just start right away. Get attribute points every 2 CP earning extra at certain points of the progression. Your skills can still level 1-50. You'd still have to get through 160 CP before you could hold onto any end game gear. Maybe it's a horrible idea and I'm totally wrong but I'd be more into folks supplying actual reasons why it's a bad idea instead of just insulting OP or saying "lol, nope" and then peacing out.

Well it's real tricky because for me at 855 CP I probably won't have to worry about grinding out CP again, but leveling up can get annoying. It was more of a thought exercise to see where the community sat on the issue. It's clear that it's not a good idea from the comments, but I think it does have some value and I doubt I'm the only one who has thought of this.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind either way on this one really but if they were removed I wouldn't be bummed. I think there would be some benefits for sure. I'd like to hear the issues with the idea though. I'm sure there's plenty of downside I'm not thinking of.

phontom78kiss

hmm...interesting comments from all...For me, leveling all of my 8 characters to 50 (current max CP), was a good experience. It forced me to learn each character unique patterns. For the past year, it has been sad to see max level folks running around that do not know in my humble opinion...basic mechanics for there respective class. Take a level 15 to NMA or DSA (w/ one friend if you have one) and you are forced to speed up your learning curve with no one carry you around..plus awesome XP too..

Jade1986

NO! Seriously this game has already been severely dumbed down, keep it how it is for sanguines sake!

PaixRomanus

laced wrote: »

NO! Seriously this game has already been severely dumbed down, keep it how it is for sanguines sake!

Great point!

PaixRomanus

phontom78kiss wrote: »

hmm...interesting comments from all...For me, leveling all of my 8 characters to 50 (current max CP), was a good experience. It forced me to learn each character unique patterns. For the past year, it has been sad to see max level folks running around that do not know in my humble opinion...basic mechanics for there respective class. Take a level 15 to NMA or DSA (w/ one friend if you have one) and you are forced to speed up your learning curve with no one carry you around..plus awesome XP too..

You're not wrong there are tons of examples that any player on this game can give of grouping with a 660 who hasn't mastered the basics of the game.

Tandor

While you're at it, you could remove most of the game world. Create a character and log straight into Skyreach where some mercenary NPCs could level you to the CP cap in 10 minutes with an appropriate achievement (that would be account-wide, naturally). Move on to Destiny 2. Job done.

No to the OP's idea, by the way !

ValkynSketha

-_-

Nestor

Leveling and unlocking skills is learning your character.


We already have enough CP160s out there that have no clue how to play the game or their class or role. We don't need them all to be that way.

Riejael

Sorry to say, but 1-50 doesn't teach anyone anything about their class. Maybe.. maybe back when the game released and everyone was learning stuff for the first time. But since then, everything has been marked, measured, and laid out by the community on exactly what you need to do to get to 50 asap and what to have.

Its like this in every game. The only difference here is the way scaling works you can enter an endgame normal dungeon at like level 10 and do 'fine'. Except newbies don't do fine. They just get dragged through or kicked. The idea of learning from low level to max is only applicable to the first strand of players in a new game.

In an older game like this one. A new player usually learns very little. You can easily see this by watching how CP400-600+ fail at some dungeon mechanics. A new player in ESO won't normally learn anything until long after they've had CP, and either some kind hearted soul decided to take them under their wing, or they get tired of being booted from groups and actually read up on stuff.

The basic game mechanics (dodging, blocking, interrupting) aren't normally learned 1-50 anymore. Reason I say this is I have a friend who's right around CP60 who I know hasn't grasped it yet. When they played EQ and WoW, they turned with the keyboard and clicked their abilities. Watching them try to solo something in this game is rather cringey. Be thankful they know their limitations and stays out of the group queues.

I'm not advocating for removing 1-50. But I would like to see gear levels reworked in crafting.

Ever try to make gear for a friend who is CP10-140? I can't do it. I've looked for mats on the guild traders and it isn't there. I cannot get the mats my self. I either have a 1-49 character or a cp160+ character. Nothing in between. Sometimes.. sometimes I get enough to make one piece through writs if I randomly get the right mats.

If anything needs to be fixed. That's it.

I mean if we're advocating for people to learn to put sets together while they level. Why make it a chore for those cp10-140? We force them into using hodgepodge of whatever they can get their hands on while they frequently outlevel it.

PaixRomanus

Riejael wrote: »

Sorry to say, but 1-50 doesn't teach anyone anything about their class. Maybe.. maybe back when the game released and everyone was learning stuff for the first time. But since then, everything has been marked, measured, and laid out by the community on exactly what you need to do to get to 50 asap and what to have.

Its like this in every game. The only difference here is the way scaling works you can enter an endgame normal dungeon at like level 10 and do 'fine'. Except newbies don't do fine. They just get dragged through or kicked. The idea of learning from low level to max is only applicable to the first strand of players in a new game.

In an older game like this one. A new player usually learns very little. You can easily see this by watching how CP400-600+ fail at some dungeon mechanics. A new player in ESO won't normally learn anything until long after they've had CP, and either some kind hearted soul decided to take them under their wing, or they get tired of being booted from groups and actually read up on stuff.

The basic game mechanics (dodging, blocking, interrupting) aren't normally learned 1-50 anymore. Reason I say this is I have a friend who's right around CP60 who I know hasn't grasped it yet. When they played EQ and WoW, they turned with the keyboard and clicked their abilities. Watching them try to solo something in this game is rather cringey. Be thankful they know their limitations and stays out of the group queues.

I'm not advocating for removing 1-50. But I would like to see gear levels reworked in crafting.

Ever try to make gear for a friend who is CP10-140? I can't do it. I've looked for mats on the guild traders and it isn't there. I cannot get the mats my self. I either have a 1-49 character or a cp160+ character. Nothing in between. Sometimes.. sometimes I get enough to make one piece through writs if I randomly get the right mats.

If anything needs to be fixed. That's it.

I mean if we're advocating for people to learn to put sets together while they level. Why make it a chore for those cp10-140? We force them into using hodgepodge of whatever they can get their hands on while they frequently outlevel it.

Now this is an appropriate response to a question. Thank you for sharing.

central_scrutinizer

Getern wrote: »

If I could decide on that y'all would have to grind ur asses till v16. Reason? Simple, play one class, focus on it. Make that character to be ur reflection, something what makes u recognizable by that. Want more? Grind till v16 all classes u want just like we all used to do back in day and stop whining.

He's not whining, he just has an idea that you don't like or are just using as a pretense to grandstand. Stop trying to prop yourself up by insulting strangers, it's cringey af.


If you actually did level up 1-v16 then you should remember that people used to be able to do dungeons scaled to their exact level, end game zones set to specific v levels through cad's silver/gold and many sets only found at certain v levels, it was way different, each veteran level meant way more as scaling to v16 was not a constant like it is now. Now <160 is just pointless, none of those early levels offer anything unique anymore.

It's probably too much of a pain for ZoS to change again but op isn't unreasonable for wanting to discuss it.

RANKK7

PlagueSD wrote: »

Not only no, but HELL NO.
Level 1-50 - learn your character
Level cp1 to cp160 - learn your rotations
level cp161 to cp660 - farm your gear.

That would be ideal but in reality a truly new player:

Level 1-20 - wow so much to see, and all the players around, what's a wayshrine? I can dye armor! Look, a spider! Dead
Level 20-30 - I can buy a horse! Quests! Let's follow all these people! Dolmens! Campaign? Let's go pvp! Where is the wayshrine to go back? Dolmens!
Level 30-45 - More quests! I almost have a complete set, it gives me health and it's reinforced, best trait, more armor! What's freaking divines and this mundus it says in there?
Level 45-50 - Undaunted thing? Maybe later, have quests to do! Oh more points, let's put them in heavy armor! So many quests!
Level cp1 to cp30 - Let's go back to pvp, now I kick asses! Let's go back to pve.
Level cp30 to cp100 - This undaunted thing is hard as hell. Oh, there is one place named Craglorn with a unique material! Spellscar? No problem! Ok, let's go back to find those red things in nodes, in chat is selling good, must stash them for later, surely endgame ***!
Level cp100 to cp160 - Inventory space seems like a problem. May be the case I find a trading guild. Inventory space. Ass kicked too much in both pve and pvp, something is definitely wrong. What is this direct damage? Penetration what?
Level cp160+ - May be the case I quit or I look on the internet why I suck so much, there are also these strange words used like aoe, proc, dots, hots... what's penetration and direct damage again? Magic one is different from elemental? There is nothing in game explaining it.

People need a reality check when thinking a low cp should perform decently, if second account of course they can, if avid mmo players could be better at it, but a lot of us just started with no idea idea whatsoever how this game works and there is nothing to be found in game explaining it. @ZOS A dedicated tab with an appendix and detailed info would be needed!

Nestor

Another reason is, not everyone who plays the game is in a race to end game. I have guildmates who have been playing this game since release who are still not CP160. And they are steady players. What, you want to tell them to go away and find another game to play because they are not bent on getting to the cap as quickly as possible?

ZOS has already made leveling to your max character's level a process that takes hours, not months like it used to. And we still have people complaining about the small amount of time spent leveling a new character.

I know, I know, some people are not going to be happy until they can just load a template up and go from there. But, something tells me that won't be good enough for them. Then they will want gear packs so they BiS right out of the Wailing Prison. Oh, no, we need to skip that too.

Beardimus

No.

For people new to the game, the progression is healthy. Changing things to wreck that experience because people are too impatient to level an alt (which is crazy fast) is just wrong. Not everyone power grinds their way from starting.

I took 4 months on L1-50 and it was some of the most fun I had learning the world and a MMORPG from scratch.

I'm unsure why there are repeated requests to dumb the game down, I dunno.

PlagueSD

Doing crafting writs every day keeps my low level stock high enough to craft any level item. Also, when I'm leveling my alts, I ALWAYS gather...even though I have no crafting skills, half the nodes will be at my character level, so I can farm that way if needed.