Disease Enchant (Enchants as a Whole)

Grumble_and_Grunt

Was scared of this 'fix'

Fixed an issue where the Diseased status effect was not applying Major Defile.

Not sure how others feel about it, but in my opinion enchants need fine tuning. People were most concerned about Oblivion Enchants on the PTS. However most enchants and their status effects when coupled with Infused are kinda crazy at the moment, whether you are playing for raw damage with Beserker, Minor Vulnerability or Proc Based damage with Disease/Flame or even Snare based effects with Chilled.

Before this fix Disease Enchant on an Infused weapon was the new go to Proc. Although the damage varied a lot it still procs every other light attack or so, meaning it is not so hard to keep pressuring opponents in PvP when you combine the pressure of the enchant in synergy with your other skills is one thing. Now on top of that it has been fixed and now inflicts Major Defile.

Meaning now every class of every playstyle now has easy access to Major Defile with relatively good up times and 'free' damage on top of that without really making any sacrifices to their build whatsoever, which I am not sure how I feel about it.

In my opinion Enchants are dominating PvP at the moment just as sets have done in the past, except now you can couple the enchants with what ever sets you like, being able to really optimise status effects and damage output dependant on what style enchant you want to play with.

Just not so sure how I feel about the PvP in this game and the Infused/Enchant meta. Wondering how others feel about it?

IcyDeadPeople

Healing is still a bit too strong in CP PVP IMO. I think you need Major defile to have a shot at killing many wardens and templars.

casparian

I'm not worried about it. DKs, Wardens, and Templars all have extremely potent heals (not to mention magblades running Healing Ward + multiple HOTs), for which ready access to Major Defile is welcome. What's more, it's extremely easy to be very tanky in PVP nowadays, even in light armor (though not so much in medium ). With overtuned proc sets gone, it's good that Infused gives some burst to counter this.

CyrusArya

Being able to fine tune builds? What a tragedy /s.

Enchants are just another layer of combat making the system more intricate and complex. Never before in this game has theory crafting been more robust or build variety more diverse. The current state of enchants is a part of that. Are they strong? yeah. Dominating PvP? nah thats an exaggeration. Saying you're getting something for nothing is totally misleading...that's like saying by running food/drink you are getting 'free stats'.

arkansas_ESO

I'm cool with anything that lets me counter the Warden tree spam

Grumble_and_Grunt

CyrusArya wrote: »

Being able to fine tune builds? What a tragedy /s.

Enchants are just another layer of combat making the system more intricate and complex. Never before in this game has theory crafting been more robust or build variety more diverse. The current state of enchants is a part of that. Are they strong? yeah. Dominating PvP? nah thats an exaggeration. Saying you're getting something for nothing is totally misleading...that's like saying by running food/drink you are getting 'free stats'.

Got to love the forum passive aggressiveness, always a charm! You are entitled to your opinion, I simply asked what others thought about it all. In my opinion I wouldn't say deciding between maybe 3/4 powerful enchants makes for complex and robust theory crafting.

I would say yes it is another layer of combat, but an exaggeration? No. At least sooner or later it will be once more people are aware on the impact enchants can make in PvP.

Slotting an Infused trait weapon and then hand picking what fancy abusive effect you want to inflict on an opponent constantly to me, just doesn't make for healthy PvP. Likewise slapping on a Beserker enchant for large amount of raw spell/weapon dmg.

I guess we just see it differently, to me the 'free stats' aspect comes from their effectiveness in PvP. For this thread in particular it is the fact we have classes/skills that offer such effects therefore being unique and forcing you into a playstyle to take advantage of that, but now it all just comes naturally to your builds.

As for the Major Defile countering Templars and Wardens, understandable, but in the long run harms Stamina builds more than it would hurt Templars or Wardens.

Publius_Scipio

I agree with Ice Cube in post #2. Just yesterday myself and a handful of COVENANT commandos encountered the "boy wonder" Kodi and the #1 ESO streamer Jules. Jules was a templar and Kodi's pocket healer. No one cared about Kodi as warden believe it or not, but we kept pounding on Jules and through heals alone she stayed on her feet. Gear, CP, heals.

Edit: I also agree with Capser the Friendly Ghost in post #3.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

I'm not worried about it. DKs, Wardens, and Templars all have extremely potent heals (not to mention magblades running Healing Ward + multiple HOTs), for which ready access to Major Defile is welcome. What's more, it's extremely easy to be very tanky in PVP nowadays, even in light armor (though not so much in medium ). With overtuned proc sets gone, it's good that Infused gives some burst to counter this.

Problem with medium is that you need another source of penetration, which LA gets a little help from. I'd argue it's really easy for medium armor to gain defense via resistances making them tankier than LA. Reason being in medium you can dodge roll and Sprint for longer which can allow you to escape situations normally other armors have to find a way out of.

If i made a Stam toon, id probably look at getting penetration from Lord + sharpened, then DMG from enchants + medium, and give up on a monster set and slot pirate/chudan for 5800 consistent defenses (only 500 less than bloodspawn and you don't need to be hit to get it). Assuming you can get a Regen 5pc or use max Stam+ health+Stam recovery.

NightbladeMechanics

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using a charged weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

Edit: bolded, fixed typo

Mojomonkeyman

I find enchants noticable but not even close to being in the gamebreaking league of the former procset annoyance. Worth a discussion and close monitoring, but not a fan of hammering them down immediately. I can see that major defile in particular might be a bit too much, I mean disease was BiS for how many of the 2014-2015 patches even with only minor defile?!

Koolio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using an Infused weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

This which in turns brings charged to a good spot. Because you constantly proc major defile. Which means I can use infused Nirn sharp precise or charged and get good results in pvp. Isn't this what people wanted. Build diversity.

NightbladeMechanics

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using an Infused weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

This which in turns brings charged to a good spot. Because you constantly proc major defile. Which means I can use infused Nirn sharp precise or charged and get good results in pvp. Isn't this what people wanted. Build diversity.

Oh wait, I mistyped that post. My 5/20 proc rate was testing a charged weapon for increased uptime. I was disappointed with it.

Koolio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using an Infused weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

This which in turns brings charged to a good spot. Because you constantly proc major defile. Which means I can use infused Nirn sharp precise or charged and get good results in pvp. Isn't this what people wanted. Build diversity.

Oh wait, I mistyped that post. My 5/20 proc rate was testing a charged weapon for increased uptime. I was disappointed with it.

That's sad to hear. I'm on console so I don't get metrics. However I tested mine on a DW Stam Sorc with 2 charged axes 1 disease 1 WD enchant. Maybe because I was using a lot more weapon attacks.

NightbladeMechanics

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using an Infused weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

This which in turns brings charged to a good spot. Because you constantly proc major defile. Which means I can use infused Nirn sharp precise or charged and get good results in pvp. Isn't this what people wanted. Build diversity.

Oh wait, I mistyped that post. My 5/20 proc rate was testing a charged weapon for increased uptime. I was disappointed with it.

That's sad to hear. I'm on console so I don't get metrics. However I tested mine on a DW Stam Sorc with 2 charged axes 1 disease 1 WD enchant. Maybe because I was using a lot more weapon attacks.

There is a special animation for each status effect in addition to the enchants themselves. I just sat there spamming light attacks, watching for the sizzle of electricity that coats the target for a few seconds. That's the indicator for Concussion.

NightbladeMechanics

@Koolio I forget the percentage you get from charged... It's been a few weeks since I've looked at the trait.

Keep in mind that infused reduces the enchant cooldown by half, effectively doubling (200% increase) your chance of applying status effects if you're weaving back to back. I kind of stopped testing charged for my builds since I weave concealed in people's faces so much.

Koolio

I'll check what I have on but charged 2h gold 220% increase. I might have 1 charged 1 infused. And I can't remember which moves to proc your main hand Enchant your offhand enchant. I'll test some more tonight.

Araviel2

i am a little confused, did disease not used to proc minor defile and not major?
when did they change it to major?

Cinbri

I feel nothing about enchants coz they apparently bugged and not working vs blocking targets, i.e. majority of enemies, making them as useless as infused weapons in pvp.

GreenSoup2HoT

Araviel2 wrote: »

i am a little confused, did disease not used to proc minor defile and not major?
when did they change it to major?

people on pc who use outdated add-ons say this. minor defile with befoul cp makes add-ons think its a major.

i know for a fact its minor.. or else my debuff tracker that is supplied by zos is wrong.

Araviel2

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

i am a little confused, did disease not used to proc minor defile and not major?
when did they change it to major?

people on pc who use outdated add-ons say this. minor defile with befoul cp makes add-ons think its a major.

i know for a fact its minor.. or else my debuff tracker that is supplied by zos is wrong.

yea indeed the debuff tracker says minor defile, but i don't know who to trust more. Gina or the tracker.
@ZOS_GinaBruno did you make a typo in the patch notes?

glavius

Was always major defile, with bosmers and argonians being immune to the proc

Anne_Firehawk

Araviel2 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

i am a little confused, did disease not used to proc minor defile and not major?
when did they change it to major?

people on pc who use outdated add-ons say this. minor defile with befoul cp makes add-ons think its a major.

i know for a fact its minor.. or else my debuff tracker that is supplied by zos is wrong.

yea indeed the debuff tracker says minor defile, but i don't know who to trust more. Gina or the tracker.
@ZOS_GinaBruno did you make a typo in the patch notes?

It's Major Defile on Combat Metrics and we had a 68% uptime over the course of 2 minutes by doing nothing fancy (for example spamming light attacks or w/e). The Major Defile is gonna hurt Stamina a lot more imo.

Comfortably_Buzzed

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using a charged weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

Edit: bolded, fixed typo

I was testing enchants just yesterday. I have the exact numbers on a spreadsheet at home but with purple infused I was getting an enchant proc every 2-3 attacks with the secondary effect proccing 17-20% (1/6 to 1/5) of the time. With purple charged the weapon enchant procced every 5-6 attacks but the secondary effect procced 30-40% of the time. I only recorded the results of 30 attacks with each so a much bigger sample size is needed but IMO unless you're using a lot of skills with the chance to proc secondary effects infused is probably the better option because on average you're getting the same number of secondary effect procs over a given number of weapon attacks but you'll have the added damage of the disease enchant proccing more often.

Also this is a tangent but with a gold infused weapon you can have 100% up-time with the berzerker enchant provided you light attack weave (5 sec duration/5 sec cooldown). A gold berzerker enchant on an infused weapon adds 452 spell & weapon damage. That is basically getting the 5-pc War Maiden (better in fact) from just a single enchant.

NightbladeMechanics

Comfortably_Buzzed wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Keep in mind that enchant status effects are not guaranteed to proc. In my testing with shock glyphs earlier this patch, I applied Concussion and Minor Vulnerability on 4/20 enchant procs on a target dummy using a normal weapon and 5/20 procs using a charged weapon. The Concussion lasted only a few seconds. That Major Defile that you're so afraid of has barely any uptime over the course of a fight.

Also poisons are still strong. 40% uptime on cc immunity? Check. 100% uptime on cost increase? Yup, you can get that at the same time. Bonus points for throwing a Minor Defile poison on your back bar and a Major Defile disease enchant on your front.

This patch is a theorycrafting paradise, yet the forums are full of panic as usual.

Edit: bolded, fixed typo

I was testing enchants just yesterday. I have the exact numbers on a spreadsheet at home but with purple infused I was getting an enchant proc every 2-3 attacks with the secondary effect proccing 17-20% (1/6 to 1/5) of the time. With purple charged the weapon enchant procced every 5-6 attacks but the secondary effect procced 30-40% of the time. I only recorded the results of 30 attacks with each so a much bigger sample size is needed but IMO unless you're using a lot of skills with the chance to proc secondary effects infused is probably the better option because on average you're getting the same number of secondary effect procs over a given number of weapon attacks but you'll have the added damage of the disease enchant proccing more often.

Also this is a tangent but with a gold infused weapon you can have 100% up-time with the berzerker enchant provided you light attack weave (5 sec duration/5 sec cooldown). A gold berzerker enchant on an infused weapon adds 452 spell & weapon damage. That is basically getting the 5-pc War Maiden (better in fact) from just a single enchant.

Yup, we discussed infused competing with charged for status uptime farther down. Infused is definitely performing better.

And the infused back bar with a berserker enchant is meta on pretty much everything already.

Heck, I'd venture to say infused is meta all around aside from builds that don't weave heavily, like dual wield sorc or magplar or a blocking mDK or warden etc. Nirn main hand, sharpened off hand, and precise all have their places in those builds.

rivenjr

I can't get Diseased Status to proc on Xbox NA although Concussed Status procs all the time. I've tried diseased enchants and Affliction but still no Major Defile from the Diseased status on target centurion dummy. Minor Defile from poisons works fine. Or maybe the status effect itself is broken? Major Defile works great on Incap Strike but that is not the Diseased status effect.

paulsimonps

rivenjr wrote: »

I can't get Diseased Status to proc on Xbox NA although Concussed Status procs all the time. I've tried diseased enchants and Affliction but still no Major Defile from the Diseased status on target centurion dummy. Minor Defile from poisons works fine. Or maybe the status effect itself is broken? Major Defile works great on Incap Strike but that is not the Diseased status effect.

Much easier to test it on a player. Duel someone and have them check their health regen and healing done as well as their list of status effects.

rivenjr

paulsimonps wrote: »

rivenjr wrote: »

I can't get Diseased Status to proc on Xbox NA although Concussed Status procs all the time. I've tried diseased enchants and Affliction but still no Major Defile from the Diseased status on target centurion dummy. Minor Defile from poisons works fine. Or maybe the status effect itself is broken? Major Defile works great on Incap Strike but that is not the Diseased status effect.

Much easier to test it on a player. Duel someone and have them check their health regen and healing done as well as their list of status effects.

I have crazy, screaming kids so not easy to play with others sometimes. However you are right in that Centurions are disease immune so I had to test again. The status effect procs well on a humanoid dummy. I like it. There are too many ulti heals dropped on zergs these days.