Tank health?

ookami007

What is a good amount of health for a tank? Currently I have 63K, but someone in a group mentioned that wasn't enough.

Kagetenchu

For trials or pvp?

Verbal_Earthworm

63K is near the cap since the green pact and plague doctor nerfs, so unsure how it "wasnt enough"

LordGavus

Depends on guild. Templars and wardens have skills that scale from health so health focused builds can work for then.
My dk tank has a bit over 30k and that works just fine.

Narvuntien

35K seems to be fine for me , although with the 1-4 gear buffs last patch I am at 39K now.

Perhaps the issue is you aren't capped on resistances, 32K which makes it seem like your health isn't enough.

Are you using equillibrium? because that got nerfed to prevent shielding as well.

Jiandao

You only need a meatbag tank for VHoF.

For everything else 30-35k health is fine.

zyk

For vet dungeons, you can usually get away with under 20k if you're quick.

The less health, the better as you can contribute DPS and/or heal yourself to help kill things faster. An optimal dungeon group is actually 4 DPS with one tanking/dpsing and everyone healing themselves -- with one or two exceptions, perhaps.

max_only

63 k health? Geez what are you using it for? My tank has 30k health. Plenty!

MehrunesFlagon

max_only wrote: »

63 k health? Geez what are you using it for? My tank has 30k health. Plenty!

if you have 63k health you obviously are lacking elsewhere.

AbysmalGhul

I say 40-45 k puts you in a good place.

zyk wrote: »

For vet dungeons, you can usually get away with under 20k if you're quick.

Quick at what exactly? You mean fake tanking to get into dungeons? Shame on you, sir.

Fake tank = No actual tank and sub-par dps = Carried.

paulsimonps

Anything over 30k. A lot of new changes to stuff within the last big updates has pushed it so that we focus less into Stamina and or Magicka so more put points into HP instead. But you really don't need more than 30k HP. We did fine with it when that was Meta. That said pumping up to 40-45k is a good point to be at right now. Don't see the need for 65k ish numbers, way to high, you are losing out on a lot of other stuff.

SydneyGrey

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I say 40-45 k puts you in a good place.

zyk wrote: »

For vet dungeons, you can usually get away with under 20k if you're quick.

Quick at what exactly? You mean fake tanking to get into dungeons? Shame on you, sir.

Fake tank = No actual tank and sub-par dps = Carried.

I kind of have to agree with this. The whole point of a tank is that he isn't "quick." He has to sit there and take the brunt of the damage while other people attack the boss from the back/sides. He's not supposed to be moving around being quick.

mesmerizedish

Whoever told you 63k health isn't enough is a moron.

Max health builds aren't the only tank builds there are. When I tank I use a max health build because that's what I find fun, but it's not the only way to tank. If I were healing or DPSing, I would think "this will be fine" as long as the tank is using weapon and shield and has at least 30k health.

idk

For everything other than vHoF 30k max health is just fine. Many tanks in top raid groups, and moderate raid groups used that before Morrowind was released.

Max health builds became popular with Morrowind for two reasons.

1. There is some pretty serious damage the tank takes in vHoF so it is helpful not only for how much health a tank can lose in a second hit but their shields are larger since most tank shields scale off max health. As tanks get more comfortable some have shed some of that health.

2. Morrowind also ended max stats helping a tank with sustain. Namely shards used to grant the person who grabbed the shard 25% of their max stam of the bat. With this sustain, and with the dk magicka sustain, became more important since they could do igneous more often to grant them some stam and since they would be casting a shield more often adding more max health made that shield larger. Templars also benefit from the shield being larger as well, but not stam returned.

I am sure it things are more complicated than that and not every tank is going for the super high health.

So, in the end their is a lot of room for your personal choice IMO, for whatever my opinion is worth.

Edit: Concerning the post after this one. He may be right. I only tanked each of the new dungeons once and I am setup with more than 30k health with most gear setups. I know Bloodworks HM I took some good damage. The other one was not so bad.

However, after a tank, and the group, become more familiar with the mechanics the health will likely not be as much of an issue.

Kneighbors

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

paulsimonps

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

Kneighbors

paulsimonps wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

I can do it with magsorc, magtemplar, magdk 25k hp tanks. Does it means this build is optimal\universal\best to do it? It is not. If you want strong tank build today its 40k-45k hp.

idk

Kneighbors wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

I can do it with magsorc, magtemplar, magdk 25k hp tanks. Does it means this build is optimal\universal\best to do it? It is not. If you want strong tank build today its 40k-45k hp.

@paulsimonps Has a solid assessment. I can only recall the bloodroots fight in HM dissing out solid damage unless I messed up the mechanics with other fights. Granted, a player new to tanking will probably slip up, but the new DLC dungeons is probably not the first stop they should be making.

Tasear

As long as you don't die than your golden.

paulsimonps

Kneighbors wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

I can do it with magsorc, magtemplar, magdk 25k hp tanks. Does it means this build is optimal\universal\best to do it? It is not. If you want strong tank build today its 40k-45k hp.

Well you just contradicted yourself, you said said 30k wasn't enough, well it is. Do able and optimized are 2 very different things. I usually tank with around 40k too, but I am just wanting to point out its not 100% Required at all times or you will fail. Its not that bad and the Bosses and Mobs don't hit that hard even in the new DLC dungeons. Again, only thing I can recall that did did a strong punch was HM Bloodroot final boss.

code65536

paulsimonps wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

I would recommend 40K for Bloodroot HM. One thing that we found helped was having the tank stand still even when lava spawns close behind the tank. The tank keeps eating the lava fireball damage and only starts moving when things get too spicy (usually after the boss splits is in the triplet form). This minimizes movement in the earlier stages of the fight and often causes a few of the lava pools to spawn right on top of each other, thus granting us more room to work with in the end.

Tan9oSuccka

My Nord DK is at 34K.

Seems to be a good sweet spot for most Vet content. Any more and your a walking meatbag that couldn't kill a mudcrab.

bhagwad

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

My Nord DK is at 34K.

Seems to be a good sweet spot for most Vet content. Any more and your a walking meatbag that couldn't kill a mudcrab.

At 45k health, I am unable to solo any PvE content. When I collect skyshards, I sneak around enemies so I don't aggro them. If I aggro them by mistake, I run far away to reset and try again.

Such is the life of a tank in ESO.

Malic

It's situational dependent on the run. 30K -35K should get you through plenty of content depending on what utilities youre running and your mitigations. Some of the new stuff those you take huge hits. A fe DLC's ago I was running a templar sun shield build at 75k ish and could handle 100% of the vet content as a tank (you just need a taunt).

At 63K you should be fine.

Tan9oSuccka

bhagwad wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

My Nord DK is at 34K.

Seems to be a good sweet spot for most Vet content. Any more and your a walking meatbag that couldn't kill a mudcrab.

At 45k health, I am unable to solo any PvE content. When I collect skyshards, I sneak around enemies so I don't aggro them. If I aggro them by mistake, I run far away to reset and try again.

Such is the life of a tank in ESO.

Agreed. Thankfully, I have all overland content completed. I have meatbag sets for harder group content.

Hist Bark/AM + Ebon+ Bloodspawn= not killing anything

paulsimonps

code65536 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

30k isn't enough for new DLC dungeons. Only if you plan to depend on healer it will be allright. If you will play with average team where you have to sustain longer fights you will need above 40k.

Realize most repliers here or arent playing challenging content or playing it with a group of maxed out characters.

With a group of top players I dont even need tank, can manage with my magDK dd very well in 90% of games content.

If you want universal tank today it must have above 40k only because of new dungeons.

No. New dungeons do not NEED 40k+ I did it with less, others can do it with less. Only thing that really did a lot of damage was the heavy attacks from vet HM bloodroots last boss. But shield up and you will be fine, add some HoTs and no problem. Though I will recommend 30k still as a minimum for Trials and DLC dungeons.

I would recommend 40K for Bloodroot HM. One thing that we found helped was having the tank stand still even when lava spawns close behind the tank. The tank keeps eating the lava fireball damage and only starts moving when things get too spicy (usually after the boss splits is in the triplet form). This minimizes movement in the earlier stages of the fight and often causes a few of the lava pools to spawn right on top of each other, thus granting us more room to work with in the end.

Probably, I mean I did say it wasn't needed, but what I recommend is another thing entirely. Also I have not seen any rhyme or reason to the lava spawns in Bloodroot HM. It seems 100% RNG based to me, and a lot of other people I have talked to say the same, so in terms of getting lavas stack, it seems purely based on luck. When I did it the first time it was rough the first few tries then last time we tried we had every single lava pool spawn far away from us and we never had to worry about it. So if you are luck, then its easy, if you are unlucky then it gets harder.

Liofa

I would say it depends on your healer . On my first Bloodroot Forge in live server , I went with a group I didn't know . My health was never topped off , even though I warned the healer that boss is hitting very hard and I needed more heals . It just didn't work and we disbanded . I went with my personal lovely healer , we completed without problems . Same gear , same CP , different healer . I had around 40k Health , running Torug's + Alkosh + BS . Another thing , my bars were full with support skills , had no self heal except Dragon Blood . Things might have gone differently if I played more defensively with the first group to be honest . Well , if you don't want to risk anything and you are running with PUGs , I would recommend a very tanky build with high Health . As many others said , 30-40k is enough but also not if your healer is not good enough .

zyk

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

I say 40-45 k puts you in a good place.

zyk wrote: »

For vet dungeons, you can usually get away with under 20k if you're quick.

Quick at what exactly? You mean fake tanking to get into dungeons? Shame on you, sir.

Fake tank = No actual tank and sub-par dps = Carried.

That's quite a conclusion you've jumped to. I have not once used the group finder myself.

Though I don't PVE very often, I've completed most vet dungeons solo or duo. When duo, I was the 'tank' and my partner was full DPS. We were responsible for our own heals. I mostly played magicka nb and dk, but I've also done a lot with stam nb/dk dps builds. I usually had about 16k health but could swap gear a bit to bump that to 18k if needed. Most of this experience was from 2.4 through 2.6, but I did some in 3.0 as well.

By quick, I mean reactive gameplay. Against Physical damage bosses, I would use 1hs on one bar, only block what I needed to (reactive gameplay) and sneak in fully charged heavy attacks for stam sustain as necessary. While contributing 15-25k+ DPS. And that's with suboptimal PVE builds and clunky, unpracticed rotations. I'm more interested in PVP and trading.

My main point is to demonstrate that a massive health pool is not necessary. Perhaps my example is extreme, but don't limit yourself by trinity role preconceptions from other MMOs. Dungeon tanks in ESO should also be contributing DPS if played well.