PVP is horrible, if you had this playability 3 years ago you would be gone

Morgul667

Lag is awful ;/

Kalante

pvp is at the worst it has ever been. So many people are qutting pvp lol. Only the people that run tank builds and zerglings are the majority now.

Storymaster

Durham wrote: »

It wad worse 3 years ago lol ...

It wad what?

VadimAleks

When ONE player hit me 5 times in 0.5 second - yes, it is CHEATING. I dont care how he did it, cancel animation, macro mouse, keyboard or anything else. i had 40k hp, armor cap and got instant kill from ONE nb in no time - yes, it is CHEATING. Because no one can inflict 5-6 attacks in less than a second without additional tools that are not included in the standard client, even if he has reflexes like a snake.

Eirella

VadimAleks wrote: »

When ONE player hit me 5 times in 0.5 second - yes, it is CHEATING. I dont care how he did it, cancel animation, macro mouse, keyboard or anything else. i had 40k hp, armor cap and got instant kill from ONE nb in no time - yes, it is CHEATING. Because no one can inflict 5-6 attacks in less than a second without additional tools that are not included in the standard client, even if he has reflexes like a snake.

Sounds like lag to me

VirtualElizabeth

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

firegodx

I'd rather play 1.6 than what the game is now at its current state it seems like pvp is only getting worse and worse they have no idea how to balance this game and never will eso pvp is dying thats a fact

Brrrofski

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

No.

I play Xbox.

Turelus

PVP has a lot of issues and needs love but it's still better than it was in the past stability and bug wise.

Rohamad_Ali

Turelus wrote: »

PVP has a lot of issues and needs love but it's still better than it was in the past stability and bug wise.

No , pre lighting patch , which also included an anti bot security measure was the best performance PVP attained since pre launch and launch . Day one players in Cyrodiil will remember not only was their large battles going on but also large battles all over the map , not just in one place . There were also huge groups of PVE players running around and collecting skyshards and doing some exploring . The server had the best stability until that patch changed everything and one of the keeps had a weird blue glow for months after that didn't make sense after a lightning patch fix .

Zbigb4life

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

I'm playing on console and am experiencing the same lag so your reply would be... it's my console????????
Don't you read all the threads about lag??? Oh no wait it's not ZOS' fault it's ALL our fault.

It almost feels like a crime when you address a problem with this game and all the lovers blindly keep following

Alexandrious

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

I think alof people like me are just dealing with what we have in ESO while we wait for Camelot Unchained to be finished.

ESO is still better than GW2 and BDO

I gotta look into Camelot, waiting on Pantheon Myself, and to see if Ashes of Creation isnt a scam, course be nice if SEGA took head out of ass and gave PSO2, or if the reason Yoshi is looking for a rep for him for FFXIV is so he can go to SEs other mmo, DQX, and start localization on it.....id drop everything for DQX.

Sighs, now watch some mod close this and your post cuz we talked bout other mmos. Fun times.

Alexandrious

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

Will I still lag in Cyrodil with a 7700k OC to 4.5GHZ, GTX 1080 Asus Strix TI OC, 4266MHZ Tridentz Ram, Asus 10G Shielded Network card, Intel Optane 1TB M.2, Swifttech 360MM LC, all on a Asus Maximus Apex IX board, Senpai?

Xvorg

I'm amazed on how people tends to talk in absolute terms...

"The worst"... Ok, it is not the best, does it make it the worst? No.

After that statement, everything OP said loses credibility...

VirtualElizabeth

Zbigb4life wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

I'm playing on console and am experiencing the same lag so your reply would be... it's my console????????
Don't you read all the threads about lag??? Oh no wait it's not ZOS' fault it's ALL our fault.

It almost feels like a crime when you address a problem with this game and all the lovers blindly keep following

Ok you got me there: I know little to nothing about console - I chose to avoid consoles largely due to the fact that I don't have much control over the hardware. But there other things you can look into: What about your connection? Are you on WiFI? Direct connection into your router? What is the speed of your internet connection?

Believe me I am not the "fan girl" you try and make me out to be. Yes, I love the game but I know there are bugs. I was literally about to quit the game because I was having such horrible lag in Cyrodiil to the point where it was unplayable.

The point of my post is don't just blame zos for everything. I tried to improve my network environment and PC to see if that helped at all before I went to ZOS. And it did - rage quit avoided.

VirtualElizabeth

Alexandrious wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

Will I still lag in Cyrodil with a 7700k OC to 4.5GHZ, GTX 1080 Asus Strix TI OC, 4266MHZ Tridentz Ram, Asus 10G Shielded Network card, Intel Optane 1TB M.2, Swifttech 360MM LC, all on a Asus Maximus Apex IX board, Senpai?

That's all fine and dandy but what kind of software crap do you have loaded on your computer? Are you running anti virus? Firewall SW? What is your connection speed and are you actually maximizing it. Are you connected Wifi or through Ethernet to your router. If you are direct connected - what is the max speed of your cable.

Mine is a two year old Dell XPS i7 16GB ram with Nvidia 960. I suspect my issue was some of crap software that was bogging down my machine - there is so much software BS out there on the market its hard to say what it was exactly.

I work as a SAN tech and how many times have I had to deal with complaints like"Oh the SAN is messed up. It's too slow, blah blah blah." When all along it was something in the network or on the host side. Again...my point was look at your OWN PC/Net environment along with your complaints to ZOS

Ulfson

I can think of many reasons to upgrade a computer but it would be foolish to spend money on an upgrade just to solve lag issues in a game. That is likely to be disappointing.

An upgrade MIGHT reduce lag issues but it won't always because there are many contributors to lag that are outside of your computer.

pdebie64b16_ESO

I quit eso late 2015, main reason the terrible lag in Cyro, it was unplayable.

Returned early this year, no lag issues at all, even with the summer pvp event no lag issues.

And about DAOC, the best PvP/RvR experience in a mmo imo, but the lag was terrible the first few years...

Agrippa_Invisus

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

I quit eso late 2015, main reason the terrible lag in Cyro, it was unplayable.

Returned early this year, no lag issues at all, even with the summer pvp event no lag issues.

And about DAOC, the best PvP/RvR experience in a mmo imo, but the lag was terrible the first few years...

Only when there was a lot of Thanes nearby.

TBH, there were times I played DAoC on a dialup cleaner than I do ESO on a 100mb/s internet service.

SAD!

Artis

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We know that at one time, PvP worked. It is ridiculous to believe that ZOS doesn't know why it worked. So, with the lack of communication that has existed since launch, we can only assume some executive level decision was made and ZOS can make little performance tweaks here and there but the real reason PvP has been crippled since early launch is tied up in red tape.

I would just add, that's it's not all that great in PvE either. FPS keeps dropping with time, and I even updated my CPU some time this year or last Black Friday or something and still my FPS dropped after that and is now lower than what I had before I updated. On of the last patches dropped it noticeably, too, for example. Now fps during the execute in Assembly General fight went to 5 down from 10-15, so it's worse than a slide show, it dropped throughout the whole fight too down to 10-15 and it used to be like 25 maybe.

Not sure what, but I think it's something with the code. Or my computer downgrades. Or the pve population is so high that even moving resources from pvp can't handle it?

Alexandrious

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

The lag comments - of course it can't possibly your own computer right?

I left the game for about 9 months then came back and the lag was horrible. So instead of sitting around screaming at ZOS to fix their s*%#, I decided to do a little experiment. I reset my PC - a clean wipe and guess what? Lag is Gone!

So like I said...it can't be your PC right?

Will I still lag in Cyrodil with a 7700k OC to 4.5GHZ, GTX 1080 Asus Strix TI OC, 4266MHZ Tridentz Ram, Asus 10G Shielded Network card, Intel Optane 1TB M.2, Swifttech 360MM LC, all on a Asus Maximus Apex IX board, Senpai?

That's all fine and dandy but what kind of software crap do you have loaded on your computer? Are you running anti virus? Firewall SW? What is your connection speed and are you actually maximizing it. Are you connected Wifi or through Ethernet to your router. If you are direct connected - what is the max speed of your cable.

Mine is a two year old Dell XPS i7 16GB ram with Nvidia 960. I suspect my issue was some of crap software that was bogging down my machine - there is so much software BS out there on the market its hard to say what it was exactly.

I work as a SAN tech and how many times have I had to deal with complaints like"Oh the SAN is messed up. It's too slow, blah blah blah." When all along it was something in the network or on the host side. Again...my point was look at your OWN PC/Net environment along with your complaints to ZOS

Anti-Virus? pffft. Anti-Virus is for gimps. Direct connected, 100 U and D, fiber optic. As for software, none yet. :P I got nearly all the parts, just need a few more I have ordered to then build it. :P The Gaming Nic Card will also maximize and prioritize to the games I set it for via its software.

reiverx

Even if there was no lag and no bugs I don't think PVP would be as enjoyable as it used to be. Too many other game changes have taken their toll.

Nutshotz

TBH I think a lot of players are waiting for better games to come out. Whether it be console or PC. The whole point the pvp community is tired of dealing with a broken game and the devs and other players saying it's our systems thats causing the issues.

Well eso lags on console if not just as bad or worse since they have a higher population than PC

PC. This gets tricky with the mods we run but with all the add-ons turned off and a lot of us PC players have beefy rigs knowing on how to build them. So saying it's the users PC that could cause the problem could be the problem or not. The connection could be the same problem as well.

Who knows. I'm just stating that a lot of the vet players that have been through the ups and downs of eso and know the difference between server lag and connection lag or if the users rig is the culprit as well as the new players.

Now I do know I'll be waiting for star citizen or Camelot unchained.

Alcast

They can not fix PVP, lag will always be here.

Back when the game came out nobody had passives, most people only spammed light attacks, no championpoints were there. The load on the server was A LOT LESS of what it is now. Now, everyone has CP, all passives, people actually know a bit more how to play the game.

Example:
Back then: You had a tube where maybe 10 balls roll through
Now: Same size tube but 1000 balls try to roll through > which obv server cant handle RIP cya

obviously also has a lot to do with spaghetti code and bad optimizing. There were and prolly still are passives that check if another player also has that passive in a 2000 meter range even tho passive only has a 20m range.

Taonnor

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

I think alof people like me are just dealing with what we have in ESO while we wait for Camelot Unchained to be finished.

ESO is still better than GW2 and BDO

Correct!

RinaldoGandolphi

Alcast wrote: »

They can not fix PVP, lag will always be here.

Back when the game came out nobody had passives, most people only spammed light attacks, no championpoints were there. The load on the server was A LOT LESS of what it is now. Now, everyone has CP, all passives, people actually know a bit more how to play the game.

Example:
Back then: You had a tube where maybe 10 balls roll through
Now: Same size tube but 1000 balls try to roll through > which obv server cant handle RIP cya

obviously also has a lot to do with spaghetti code and bad optimizing. There were and prolly still are passives that check if another player also has that passive in a 2000 meter range even tho passive only has a 20m range.

You are partially correct here @Alcast

the bigger issue is their use TCP. For people who understand how TCP actually works being TCP is on the Transport Layer, which is Layer 4 of the OSI Model, Along with Application Layer 7 implementations.

Seems some folks at ZOS when designing the game forget to read some basic primers on TCP/IP

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc786128(v=ws.10).aspx

TCP is a reliable, connection-oriented delivery service. The data is transmitted in segments. Connection-oriented means that a connection must be established before hosts can exchange data. Reliability is achieved by assigning a sequence number to each segment transmitted. An acknowledgment is used to verify that the data is received. For each segment sent, the receiving host must return an acknowledgment (ACK) within a specified period for bytes received. If an ACK is not received, the data is retransmitted. TCP is defined in RFC 793.

TCP uses byte-stream communications, wherein data within the TCP segment is treated as a sequence of bytes with no record or field boundaries. The following table describes the key fields in the TCP header.

So when everyone has all those passives you talk about unlocked, plus 12+ man sized raids running around hitting multiple people with AOE like Eye of the Storm what do folks think happens at Layer 3 and Layer 7 of the OSI Model?

I'll tell you what happens, the server can only service so many requests per second then packets are either dropped, or the server tries to quench some packets and not deliver the ACK back right away, but try to deliver it before the TTL is expired, or it simply can not service then and lets the TTL expire. Since TCP requires all packets to be delivered, its forced to resend and wait for response....and here we are....lag

Short of re-writing the code, they can fix Cyrodiil...but to do so would require DRASTIC changes to how certain abilities, healing, and groups work. Simply put they would have to:

1. cap group size to 6
2. only the top 4 damage dealers and top 2 healers get AP credit
3. No buffs, heals, or bonuses can be cast on any player not in your group(server doesn't have to care about everyone else)
4. put diminishing returns on AP gains where 50 people at a keep = 0 AP earned for all
5. remove AOE caps completely

You have to make zerging unattractive and you do that by taking away their rewards and taking away their easy access to healing...these 12-24 man raids...healing is far too strong due to AOE caps and stacking CP and gear bonuses that boost healing to the point they are impossible to kill without an equal or larger zerg....those raids are what is killing PVP performance...the players won't stop doing it on their own, they have proven that for 3 years, its time ZOS steps in and makes zerging unattractive by taxing the tar out of it(removing all the benefits) so folks are forced to spread out and play in smaller packs.

it will be much harder for four groups of 6 people to stand under siege then it is for 24 people to stand under siege due to heals only effecting your group and no one else.

Players have to make a choice between stacking raids and performance, TCP simply can't handle what we have now, and ZOS either needs to make the game playable, or just leave it be.

Paul Sage said he had plans to spread players out(He was going to nerf the tar out of zergs, before he left for Gearbox)

ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157157/update-on-cyrodiil-performance/p1


Hello everyone,

Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.

Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.

He was "Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area" Simply put he was going to make the 12 man+ raid extinct if you wanted to earn any AP and what not.

the game especially Cyrodiil doesn't have to be about raids stacking OP PBAOE skills. The map design most certainly says its not about large raids considering 70% of Cyrodiil map was designed for small groups all the little towns, villages, quest areas, hubs, delves...those were not designed for raids....the ring keeps make up a small part of the overall map, the vision for Cyrodiil was clearly not meant to be zerg, zerg, zerg....however their changes since then have certainly made it that way...

Lord_Invel

Xsorus wrote: »

Ulfson wrote: »

PVP here is the worst of any game I have ever played.
Cheating seems out of control
Lag is horrible
key commands go unanswered for 1-5 seconds
pressing a fire command may or may not do anything and may go off at the least beneficial time
using the E command is just a maybe
the descriptions of spells, attacks, and buffs are all preceded with "maybe or sometimes".
the broom stick it too far up the wrong place
EOS became ZOS Vegas ( a crap shoot) and now is just broken
Yes I am a little disgruntled. But what the heck, I stopped subscribing after 3 years and so I get what I pay for...
No I didn't.

Rofl...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

I don't think you quite realize how *** PvP was at certain points of this game....Even then It wasn't the worst PVP of any game.....by any measure...Even during this spectacular *** show its PvP was still best on the market except for older games like DAOC.

Did anyone else watch this video and shed a tear because they saw so many old school player names and realized that most of these players quit the game.

Taonnor

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ulfson wrote: »

PVP here is the worst of any game I have ever played.
Cheating seems out of control
Lag is horrible
key commands go unanswered for 1-5 seconds
pressing a fire command may or may not do anything and may go off at the least beneficial time
using the E command is just a maybe
the descriptions of spells, attacks, and buffs are all preceded with "maybe or sometimes".
the broom stick it too far up the wrong place
EOS became ZOS Vegas ( a crap shoot) and now is just broken
Yes I am a little disgruntled. But what the heck, I stopped subscribing after 3 years and so I get what I pay for...
No I didn't.

Rofl...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

I don't think you quite realize how *** PvP was at certain points of this game....Even then It wasn't the worst PVP of any game.....by any measure...Even during this spectacular *** show its PvP was still best on the market except for older games like DAOC.

Did anyone else watch this video and shed a tear because they saw so many old school player names and realized that most of these players quit the game.

Yes.

klink012

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

PVP has a lot of issues and needs love but it's still better than it was in the past stability and bug wise.

No , pre lighting patch , which also included an anti bot security measure was the best performance PVP attained since pre launch and launch . Day one players in Cyrodiil will remember not only was their large battles going on but also large battles all over the map , not just in one place . There were also huge groups of PVE players running around and collecting skyshards and doing some exploring . The server had the best stability until that patch changed everything and one of the keeps had a weird blue glow for months after that didn't make sense after a lightning patch fix .

This. The performance now is terrible.

abelsgmx

PVE have a lot of lag now, I ahve been tanking in a lot of vet dungeons ans see how people can't break free a lot of time including my self.