Sotha Sil Part 3 NA PC

Kartalin

Adenoma wrote: »

Emp denies zerging. Emp shows up to two folks at a resource (weirdly, because they had keeps flagged), gets killed, comes back with nine, kills us. Emp denies zerging.

Up is down and down is up.

I have some more video I captured last night after DC emp and took everything AD owned. We took our 10-11 to Nikel, capped it quickly, and after it was clear it was going to fall (40ish DC including emp group) we left and fought them open field alongside some Salt Mining folks for another hour, push and pull, farming them repeatedly. Didn't get a chance to do anything with the footage though because sleep but I might get to it later.

Adenoma

What is weird to me is how anyone in a guild we can't mention categorically denies that for the last few months they've flipped the map around 90% of the nights. If you try to debate that point they say, "you must not play at all."

Drakkdjinn

Kartalin wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

Emp denies zerging. Emp shows up to two folks at a resource (weirdly, because they had keeps flagged), gets killed, comes back with nine, kills us. Emp denies zerging.

Up is down and down is up.

I have some more video I captured last night after DC emp and took everything AD owned. We took our 10-11 to Nikel, capped it quickly, and after it was clear it was going to fall (40ish DC including emp group) we left and fought them open field alongside some Salt Mining folks for another hour, push and pull, farming them repeatedly. Didn't get a chance to do anything with the footage though because sleep but I might get to it later.

TM coulda set up a drive-in at Nikel post PvDoor Zerg -- diced and salted so many potatoes. Y'all want fries with that?

Adenoma wrote: »

What is weird to me is how anyone in a guild we can't mention categorically denies that for the last few months they've flipped the map around 90% of the nights. If you try to debate that point they say, "you must not play at all."

I hereby am coining a forum-friendly label to describe the amalgamation of PvDoor siege spamming zerg-tato "hold-my-hand-I'm-afraid of defended keeps" guilds AD currently has on farm, it includes the core names and themes of all those involved:

<Legionnaire's Legionary Legions of Legion>

I think the spirit of each guild is well represented with "LLLL"...

L-L-L-Losers!

esotoon

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Rest in Ripperoni Sotha.

And to bring some balance to the thread, this is how the map was for many hours earlier in the day, with AD defending DC's home keeps with 3 to 4 times the number of players DC had on. As a result we were constantly banging our head against a literal wall and could get nowhere. (Note, this pic was taken after DC managed to retake Rayles - AD soon took it back.)



I'm new to this, so maybe I'm missing something, but everything people seem to be blaming DC for doing and 'killing' the campaign, I've seen done by every other faction, day in day out for the past month. This past week alone has seen nights where AD have dominated with numbers, EP has dominated with numbers and DC have dominated with numbers, let alone at other times of the day.

Does it suck when you are valiantly defending a keep for a long time to suddenly have a zerg rush through and wipe you and your hard work out in seconds. Yep, as a DC player I've experienced that daily. Does it suck when you have only a few players on the server against a horde from another faction. Yep. As a DC player I've experienced that repeatedly too. There's not much you can do when your group of 5 defenders are up against 32 AD that have suddenly logged in and start taking keep after keep from you, or when two large groups of EP attack you every time your merry band try to take back a resource. Is it frustrating to leave the server with your faction owning most the keeps, only to wake up to find everything flipped? Heck yeah! See the above map and map I posted earlier to see what I, as a DC player, have woken up to many times.

Like I say, I'm new, so maybe missing something, but if these are problems that are truly causing the campaign to 'die' as people say, then at least be honest about the fact that all factions, and many groups/guilds use player numbers to their advantage constantly, throughout the day (not just at the times you happen to play). Perhaps then a solution could be found that creates a better balance, and hopefully one that doesn't expect players not to play simply because they happen to be on the server at a different time of day to when you are.

Minnesinger

esotoon wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Rest in Ripperoni Sotha.

And to bring some balance to the thread, this is how the map was for many hours earlier in the day, with AD defending DC's home keeps with 3 to 4 times the number of players DC had on. As a result we were constantly banging our head against a literal wall and could get nowhere. (Note, this pic was taken after DC managed to retake Rayles - AD soon took it back.)



I'm new to this, so maybe I'm missing something, but everything people seem to be blaming DC for doing and 'killing' the campaign, I've seen done by every other faction, day in day out for the past month. This past week alone has seen nights where AD have dominated with numbers, EP has dominated with numbers and DC have dominated with numbers, let alone at other times of the day.

Does it suck when you are valiantly defending a keep for a long time to suddenly have a zerg rush through and wipe you and your hard work out in seconds. Yep, as a DC player I've experienced that daily. Does it suck when you have only a few players on the server against a horde from another faction. Yep. As a DC player I've experienced that repeatedly too. There's not much you can do when your group of 5 defenders are up against 32 AD that have suddenly logged in and start taking keep after keep from you, or when two large groups of EP attack you every time your merry band try to take back a resource. Is it frustrating to leave the server with your faction owning most the keeps, only to wake up to find everything flipped? Heck yeah! See the above map and map I posted earlier to see what I, as a DC player, have woken up to many times.

Like I say, I'm new, so maybe missing something, but if these are problems that are truly causing the campaign to 'die' as people say, then at least be honest about the fact that all factions, and many groups/guilds use player numbers to their advantage constantly, throughout the day (not just at the times you happen to play). Perhaps then a solution could be found that creates a better balance, and hopefully one that doesn't expect players not to play simply because they happen to be on the server at a different time of day to when you are.

If you are new to the game I don´t really blame you for your opinion. I think you are right. There is a lot of players from time to time. What i think is the issue that some DC repeatedly have come after the prime time to flip the map: We talk about cycle of months by now. Most players would be happy to focus on the pvp aspects but we can´t force all guilds to follow that line. They blatantly avoid fights and seek for easy targets like undefended keeps. The campaign is won by a margin of thousands favouring these guilds and their tactics. What you witnessed by AD is just a drop in the sea what other two factions face daily. Maybe you are not too late to switch alliance and see how it looks on the other side

Kartalin

A lot of DC get punished, perhaps unfairly so, for the shenanigans of the organized guilds in your faction and what they've been doing to the campaign for months. I feel like AD and EP have both gotten to the point that every DC we encounter in Cyrodiil is complicit in this fiasco. Because even if they don't participate in making the whole map blue or run in the faction zergs that DC favors, many still fight us at our gates and heavily defend gate keeps when the scrolls are long gone.

A certain longtime DC emperor these past few months stated the reason for their behavior was delivering a campaign win for their faction. So AD was trying to catch up in points yesterday with less than two days remaining in the campaign by employing the exact same tactics used by your "faction leaders". Not saying that this was necessarily correct or that two wrongs make a right, it just reflects the general feelings in this campaign and how badly things have gone in the last few months for players who would normally be pretty reasonable people.
.

Adenoma

@esotoon , that screenshot is 100% on point, but it leaves out some subtleties. Besides an hour or two, all group leads discouraged pushing red's tri keeps AT ALL. And for the most part, AD zone was compliant. We literally only wanted to try to pass DC in score to pull off what would have been a bit of a David and Goliath win. It's been since April or May that with the exception of maybe a weekend here and there that every single day I've woken up with DC having pushed AD and EP right to their gates and their emperor will show up at our gate keeps. This current score (DC lead by 1000+) is the closest it's been in a few cycles.

DC literally had the map on such lock that members of a certain guild that we aren't allowed to mention traded off the emp title until they gave it to another person that we aren't allowed to mention who reigned for the rest of the month.

It's really unfortunate for the DC that aren't affiliated with the guild-that-must-not-be-named because just like how it sucks to be zerged down, it sucks to be the one zerging. People like fair fights and despite the claims of guild-members-that-must-not-be-named, it doesn't seem like they get a lot of fair fights given that they have ended up controlling the map for literal months.

gabriebe

I think people looking for balance in regards to night-capping miss the point that for most people playing late in the evening, when it becomes evident that one faction has the advantage over another, the losing faction logs off and goes to bed or just do other stuff instead of fighting a losing battle. It's a 24/7 campaign. You can't get mad that some people prefer to play at night, which is also the day for some.

That being said, being mad at gate-camping, especially early in the campaign, is pretty legit.

Taysa

The guild that shall not be named isn't some odd Oceanic guild that legitimately play in a different time zone.

They're a largely North American guild who constantly changes their schedule to make sure they can grab all the keeps, all the scrolls and Emp with minimal resistance from the other two factions. What they do is deliberate and transparent. Any person who has played seriously on Sotha Sil for the past several months realizes that.

So let's just cut the BS and stop making excuses for them. Let's stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. Let's stop pretending they are always a late night guild because when one faction takes the late night shift, they will switch to early morning. Or early afternoon. Or if they didn't have a window of opportunity during off times, they will attempt prime time (and utterly fail because most of them are too terrible to play against any decent competition) What they do is driving players away from the campaign. Several guilds have already left the campaign, and more are soon to follow if the rumor mill has any merit to it.

And gate camping DC? We'll just call that karma. Maybe when the faction rises up against the malignancy we're all speaking of instead of riding on their coattails of free AP and monthly gold jewelry rewards, EP and AD would have more sympathy for them. But until then? Nah. We've been putting up with this crap all spring and summer. Our sympathy has run out.

I'm willing to bet you guys didn't see what they did to AD this morning, or what they did to EP concerning Chim this morning. And we should feel bad because DC was gate camped for a few hours? LMAO

Everything DC gets right now is months of karma punching them in the face. And this EP player is not sorry.

esotoon

@Minnesinger @Kartalin & @Adenoma Thanks for your responses. I do fully acknowledge I'm Jon Snow in this situation and "know nothing" about what has gone on before. I guess as a new player I have the naive view that if a certain tactic is wrong and bad for the game, then it should be considered bad no matter the justification, as bad just begets bad. For example, last night's rallying cry in DC zone chat as we pushed AD back (in between shouts of "Who the *beep* put the scroll in lava again?!" ) was "Remember what AD did to us earlier!". So every DC player felt justified doing whatever it took to push AD back. Just as I am sure the same cry goes up about DC in the EP and AD zone chats.

I can *fully* understand though that if this has been happening for months how frustrating that must be and how difficult it is not to resort to such tactics. So whilst logically I may think this, I don't blame anyone from EP or AD for doing it.

However, I do wonder if sometimes it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. i.e. Whilst I can't talk about what's happened the past few months. I can talk about the past two weeks when I have frequently been part of the group that has flipped many of the keeps blue through the 'night' (I'm not from the US, so that was my 'prime time' to be on). The majority of nights, most of the keeps were flipped by a group of 6-12 players who happened to be on at that time with only maybe 1 to 3 (at most) members of that group being from a certain guild. In other words it was a pug group. It wasn't uncontested, although usually we did have a slight numbers advantage. Yet reading this thread, the impression is given that every night it was a specific guild that zerged down all these keeps with no resistance. Truth be told, the nights we flipped the keeps it would only have taken another 3 or 4 members of the opposing factions to be on to put a halt to our advance. As is what happened on several nights when AD and EP did have more numbers. Yet, if I was EP or AD reading this thread, I wouldn't want to go on at these times, thus potentially artificially creating a shortage of AD and EP players during these periods, and more frustration aimed at a specific guild than was maybe warranted.

Again, before this, this may not have been what was happening, and said guild may well have zerged everything every night with no resistance. I can only speak for the times I've been on. And it was the disconnect between what's been said in this thread with what I've experienced during these times that made me comment.

Here's hoping some solution can be found though so everyone can enjoy some fair, balanced PVP.

wolfwraith37

There used to be people in AD zone chat who would try to discourage AD from gate camping DC because we didn't want to be like DC. I used to be one of them. I haven't seen anyone speak up against gate camping DC in a long while because DC wore all of us down with their B.S. My breaking point was when DC came to AD's spawn point one morning to shoot coldfire inside it because AD had dared to attack freaking Aleswell the night before. Then DC players were here on the forum gloating about it and talking about how funny it was. There's no point being nice or sporting with Sotha DC. They will only make you regret it.

Taysa

wolfwraith37 wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

And gate camping DC? We'll just call that karma. Maybe when the faction rises up against the malignancy we're all speaking of instead of riding on their coattails, EP and AD would have more sympathy for them. I'm willing to bet you guys didn't see what they did to AD this morning, or what they did to EP concerning Chim this morning.

Everything DC gets right now is months of karma punching them in the face. And this EP player is not sorry.

There used to be people in AD zone chat who would try to discourage AD from gate camping DC because we didn't want to be like DC. I used to be one of them. I haven't seen anyone speak up against gate camping DC in a long while because DC wore all of us down with their B.S. My breaking point was when DC came to AD's spawn point one morning to shoot coldfire inside it because AD had dared to attack freaking Aleswell the night before. Then DC players were here on the forum gloating about it and talking about how funny it was. There's no point being nice or sporting with Sotha DC. They will only make you regret it.

Can't speak for AD as all my toons are EP. But the guild I'm in will absolutely refuse to gate camp AD no matter how hard you guys push. When we held emp for 2 days, our main objective was to give DC a taste of their own medicine. That was a fun two days. They were saltier than the Dead Sea about it.

We'll bridge war with you guys. We'll attempt to stop your emp push. We'll play in the fields between Sej and BRK with you guys. We'll go after your scrolls if we have **** all to do. But gate camp AD? Nah. And we take notice when AD has emp and isn't gate camping us as well.

wolfwraith37

esotoon wrote: »

The majority of nights, most of the keeps were flipped by a group of 6-12 players who happened to be on at that time with only maybe 1 to 3 (at most) members of that group being from a certain guild. In other words it was a pug group. It wasn't uncontested, although usually we did have a slight numbers advantage. Yet reading this thread, the impression is given that every night it was a specific guild that zerged down all these keeps with no resistance.

There is - or was - a specific guild that did this. I haven't really been in Sotha the past few weeks so maybe they've left to terrorize another campaign. But for a long while there was a very brief window between when the Oceanic zerg guild logged off and the other zerg guild logged in where morning AD had to scrabble to take back everything we could because once the other zerg guild logged in, it would be a constant struggle just keep DC too busy to go after our tri keeps even tho we had no scrolls.

Vilestride

What guilds play on sotha? Someone summarize this for me please.

EdmundTowers

esotoon wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Rest in Ripperoni Sotha.

And to bring some balance to the thread, this is how the map was for many hours earlier in the day, with AD defending DC's home keeps with 3 to 4 times the number of players DC had on. As a result we were constantly banging our head against a literal wall and could get nowhere. (Note, this pic was taken after DC managed to retake Rayles - AD soon took it back.)



I'm new to this, so maybe I'm missing something, but everything people seem to be blaming DC for doing and 'killing' the campaign, I've seen done by every other faction, day in day out for the past month. This past week alone has seen nights where AD have dominated with numbers, EP has dominated with numbers and DC have dominated with numbers, let alone at other times of the day.

Does it suck when you are valiantly defending a keep for a long time to suddenly have a zerg rush through and wipe you and your hard work out in seconds. Yep, as a DC player I've experienced that daily. Does it suck when you have only a few players on the server against a horde from another faction. Yep. As a DC player I've experienced that repeatedly too. There's not much you can do when your group of 5 defenders are up against 32 AD that have suddenly logged in and start taking keep after keep from you, or when two large groups of EP attack you every time your merry band try to take back a resource. Is it frustrating to leave the server with your faction owning most the keeps, only to wake up to find everything flipped? Heck yeah! See the above map and map I posted earlier to see what I, as a DC player, have woken up to many times.

Like I say, I'm new, so maybe missing something, but if these are problems that are truly causing the campaign to 'die' as people say, then at least be honest about the fact that all factions, and many groups/guilds use player numbers to their advantage constantly, throughout the day (not just at the times you happen to play). Perhaps then a solution could be found that creates a better balance, and hopefully one that doesn't expect players not to play simply because they happen to be on the server at a different time of day to when you are.

Not sure why you quoted me, I was just jumping on the rip bandwagon.

Haven't been in overland cyro much during the telvar event. Just down in IC farming telvar and killing other farm groups. Got this after wiping an enemy group in sotha sewers and taking their molag bal drop:

PenguinInACan

Vilestride wrote: »

What guilds play on sotha? Someone summarize this for me please.

We're not allowed to name guilds anymore out of fear of closures and having to start the xth incarnation of this thread.

esotoon

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Not sure why you quoted me, I was just jumping on the rip bandwagon.

Nothing negative intended by quoting you - just needed a place to jump into the thread myself.

Haven't been in overland cyro much during the telvar event. Just down in IC farming telvar and killing other farm groups. Got this after wiping an enemy group in sotha sewers and taking their molag bal drop:

Ah, nice.

Machete

Sooooo Vivec anyone?

Vilestride

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

What guilds play on sotha? Someone summarize this for me please.

We're not allowed to name guilds anymore out of fear of closures and having to start the xth incarnation of this thread.

Wow really? How bad have these threads gotten? I understand the name and shame policy but I didn't imagine that would mean the prohibition of stating something so broad as to say so and so plays here regularly. Many times I see the vivec guilds listed off without issue? That being said vivec would benifit from more organized guilds competing in it which was half why I ask. Been fighting the same few faces a lot the last few weeks and it would be great to see some new ones.

wolfwraith37

Vilestride wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

What guilds play on sotha? Someone summarize this for me please.

We're not allowed to name guilds anymore out of fear of closures and having to start the xth incarnation of this thread.

Wow really? How bad have these threads gotten? I understand the name and shame policy but I didn't imagine that would mean the prohibition of stating something so broad as to say so and so plays here regularly. Many times I see the vivec guilds listed off without issue? That being said vivec would benifit from more organized guilds competing in it which was half why I ask. Been fighting the same few faces a lot the last few weeks and it would be great to see some new ones.

The mods decided that just talking about what guilds are doing what is naming and shaming, which tells you something about what the DC guilds in Sotha have been up to.

DeadlyRecluse

Guilds are people too.

Borelock762

Dont shoot the messenger.....

"To make things interesting, we allowed AD to get within 60 points of DC, with only 30 hours left in the campaign. We allowed AD every tactical advantage. They had emp, they had 20 people at both gates, they had seige on both North and South high rock. And then we showed up. You thought you could stop us, but you couldn't.

You thought we needed to night cap, we didn't.
You thought we could only win with emp, you shouldn't.
You thought we couldn't dethrone during primetime, we did.
You thought we couldn't emp during primetime, we did.
You thought you could hold one keep against us, you couldn't.

Keep after keep, one after another, AD failed. Then you rage quit, only to come back at 2am attempting to night cap, and you couldn't.

Remember this day, the day you could have won the campaign. Remember who stood over your bodies victorious this day. Your forum vX is much stronger than your actual game play.

GG
-Your fav cn Guildmaster"

good day

Sylphie

If you're going to gate camp, just admit you're doing it for your own reasons and don't try to justify it. The people you end up gate camping are the usually the players unaffliated with the night cappers since that guild logs on at a completely different time. In the end, the people that suffer are the random players that login during the morning and not the people that are ruining the campaign.

"But DC deserves it for not speaking up against the night capping"

There's not much DC can do about it. Besides 2-3 large guilds, the majority of DC consists of pugs and solo/smallscale players that don't have a say in what's happening. My smallscale group and several other groups I am acquainted with have called the guild out for night capping to no avail.

gabriebe

I don't know that many people who log in and stay in Sotha when the map is completely blue. That's how most people speak out. As someone else mentioned earlier, the regular so-reviled nightcaps (post 3AM EST) are usually at most 20 motivated players. And from what I've observed they just tend to always be on, not logging in at a particular time.

Vilestride

At the risk of getting rolled by zos the sotha list I have so far is CN LoM and tertiary meat?

Adenoma

It's funny because the-guild-that-must-not-be-named is claiming they didn't need to do all the things that they did need to do to win the campaign.

And I don't know why ZOS went all Citizens United on naming and shaming.

Our guild runs small-scale in here now, but it's been hard to get folks to move from Kyne. Mostly it's just lil ol' me, Tsubaki, and Trolls-Many-Blues with our warden army unless @DeadlyRecluse is running evening groups. Otherwise, I know that Republic of Bananas is in here, but I've only just started noticing them running groups again. IV is a rebirth of sorts of TD from Vivec, but they don't seem to run very large until primetime. Imperium of the Eagle is what @EdmundTowers is referencing and they've mostly been farming stones for the event, but I don't see them running a ton of large groups these days.

I think it's hard to run any AD group given that there are periods of thirty minutes to an hour where you won't even see someone say "LFG" or "is anyone on?" in zone. I'd imagine EP is in a similar situation.

DeadlyRecluse

Leave me out of this.

Taysa

Sylphie wrote: »

If you're going to gate camp, just admit you're doing it for your own reasons and don't try to justify it. The people you end up gate camping are the usually the players unaffliated with the night cappers since that guild logs on at a completely different time. In the end, the people that suffer are the random players that login during the morning and not the people that are ruining the campaign.

Wrong. Guild in question has been killed plenty of times at their gates. You should talk to your current empress about how salty she was that she was gate camped while EP was emp for two days straight.

Are you really that naive to what goes on in your own faction?

PenguinInACan

Vilestride wrote: »

At the risk of getting rolled by zos the sotha list I have so far is CN LoM and tertiary meat?

That sounds about right with maybe an EP guild running a few nights a week. We (TM) also normally only run officially about 3 nights a week with DC seeming to have a consistent guild presence throughout the week.

Vilestride

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

At the risk of getting rolled by zos the sotha list I have so far is CN LoM and tertiary meat?

That sounds about right with maybe an EP guild running a few nights a week. We (TM) also normally only run officially about 3 nights a week with DC seeming to have a consistent guild presence throughout the week.

Which nights are most active? Friday Saturday I assume? Same as vivec?