[PvE] Stamina needs to be balanced ASAP

KingJ · August 2017

Come on people yes single target is important but why are we acting like Cleave and AOE damage isn't important?Just about every trial boss have Adds and majority of Trials have large amount of adds pulls.AOe is so important that stam still doesn't compete in thay compartment.

Drakkdjinn · August 2017

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

HoboSteveIrwin · August 2017

Enough with this nerfing ***!

Strider_Roshin · August 2017

Rikkof wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Melee should always parse higher than range on stationary targets, simply cause it involves more risk and usually there are mechanics to prevent melee stacking. Issue is tho that mdks and mtemplars are parsing way to low. Well and mag wardens ofc.

what risks, can u detail please?
there is no risk involved, cut the ***, liar, you just want to keep your op status
NERF STAMINA DPS TO TEH GROUND ID SAY

Spoken like a true toddler.

Rataroto · August 2017

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

AdicusDio · August 2017

DeliCreep wrote: »

First of all, shields are rarely used, not spammed as many of you claim. Second, the parses I've compared were both from Alcast (but even on live, stam parses show greater dps potential already). Third, stam aoe is not that bad, but even with their lower aoe damage, their overall dps is definitely higher. Also aoe is not that important, single target dps is the most important (you want to kill the boss...). Many of you just ignored how stamina sustain is infinite and effortless, why don't you care about that?

If talking PvP, shields ARE constantly spammed (and stacked). I've sat back in stealth and watched health bars on numerous occassions. The blue just never goes away, or they get to 5% health and TK keeps them from killed, they get full health and shield goes back up. Usually people bunny hopping everywhere are the dead give aways s they have a false sense of security as they don't have any actual tactics other than running around terrain rocks, hiding under bridge arches, etc. whereas others have to actually dodge or use some skill as we don't depend on shields, but stam is constantly drained (35-44k stam can be gone in a second spamming atk. against OP shields)

Stamina sustain is infinite? Really? Tell me the set that has infinite sustain w/o dropping a ton of damage, please. Even with Vamp and all other passives, regen is a joke- even with tri-pots factored in, and poisons make i more annoying. Running a broken Marksman set for the regen + jewelry regen nchants might get you to a solid regen number, but yourweapon damage is probablt going to be worse than someone at level 40 in green gear.....

AdicusDio · August 2017

And stam DPS (if talking NB) is a joke. Even with more cp tweaks than I'd like to admit, almost all PvP can shrug of caltrops or endless hail which is our coveted AOE tool bag..... Even seige weapons are a joke as they are under perform; when a single dagger getting thrown at enemy knocks more health of their bar than a seige weapon, something is way underperforming.

And again, shields are everywhere. I''ll watch damage recaps in CMX and a solid 90% of my aoe hit shields vs. player names.

Destruent · August 2017

Rataroto wrote: »

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

Pets dont steel Buffs, they only get them in there's no one else who could get them...

And in the end, it's not really about sorcs...sorcs are just the only magicka-build which can compete against stam-builds...

Edit: to those two referring to pvp...this thread is about pve, so I have no idea why you talk about pvp...

Edziu · August 2017

Destruent wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

And in the end, it's not really about sorcs...sorcs are just the only magicka-build which can compete against stam-builds...

because sorc was never NEVER nerfad that hard like every other class and can compete against stam build which raised to this high dps 1st time since over year of struggling stamina in any content as it was wrote in this thread many times

so the only thing which we missing i just nerf fusced sorc to ground while buffing every other class because sorc was always possible to play if he wasnt on meta nonstop when other classes was just destroyed to unplayable mode

Dymence · August 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Izaki · August 2017

What don't people get in the fact that magicka has way more AoE and Cleave damage than stamina which evens out in the end? Both are very important to have in raids.

Dymence · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

What don't people get in the fact that magicka has way more AoE and Cleave damage than stamina which evens out in the end? Both are very important to have in raids.

The funny thing is that even though magicka has more cleave damage, when comparing parses between magicka and stamina, a stamina will still have higher overall damage by miles just because the single target is so far ahead compared to what magicka can cleave in AOE.

Alcast · August 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

KingJ · August 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

What don't people get in the fact that magicka has way more AoE and Cleave damage than stamina which evens out in the end? Both are very important to have in raids.

Thank you I been saying this but my post been ignored.

Morgul667 · August 2017

Stop the nerfs threads

Dymence · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

DeliCreep · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

Is it after or before Update 15? Also that's more than 10% difference, so it's still a noticeable amount. I've watched most of your pre-Update 15 videos and it seems like on the worst bosses (for stam) your dps was about average (1/8 of total dps), but most of the time you did more dps than that, which could still be fine, but Update 15 will just reduce mag dps by a lot sadly.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

Edziu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

And in the end, it's not really about sorcs...sorcs are just the only magicka-build which can compete against stam-builds...

because sorc was never NEVER nerfad that hard like every other class and can compete against stam build which raised to this high dps 1st time since over year of struggling stamina in any content as it was wrote in this thread many times

so the only thing which we missing i just nerf fusced sorc to ground while buffing every other class because sorc was always possible to play if he wasnt on meta nonstop when other classes was just destroyed to unplayable mode

Never seen more stupid, biased, egoistical crap than this. "Mimimi, other classes got treated badly, instead of raising them back up we should make sorcs unplayable as revenge! I take this personal and I'm not capable of granting someone else something. Revenge! Revenge! mimimi" So sad to read something like this. Sure they were/ are in a good spot and for a time over the top. Doesn't make it any less childish to grab a pitchfork instead of balancing stuff. Thank god you don't make decisions for the devs.

Alcast · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

DeliCreep wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

Is it after or before Update 15? Also that's more than 10% difference, so it's still a noticeable amount. I've watched most of your pre-Update 15 videos and it seems like on the worst bosses (for stam) your dps was about average (1/8 of total dps), but most of the time you did more dps than that, which could still be fine, but Update 15 will just reduce mag dps by a lot sadly.

Mag DPS will get a boost in dps next patch most likely compared to stamina which will stay the same.

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

Sweet, maybe my Stam Sorc can finally beat vMA for the first time then lol. Been playing same stam sorc since 2015 and not been able to do it hahaha.

Dymence · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

ak_pvp · August 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

And in the end, it's not really about sorcs...sorcs are just the only magicka-build which can compete against stam-builds...

because sorc was never NEVER nerfad that hard like every other class and can compete against stam build which raised to this high dps 1st time since over year of struggling stamina in any content as it was wrote in this thread many times

so the only thing which we missing i just nerf fusced sorc to ground while buffing every other class because sorc was always possible to play if he wasnt on meta nonstop when other classes was just destroyed to unplayable mode

Never seen more stupid, biased, egoistical crap than this. "Mimimi, other classes got treated badly, instead of raising them back up we should make sorcs unplayable as revenge! I take this personal and I'm not capable of granting someone else something. Revenge! Revenge! mimimi" So sad to read something like this. Sure they were/ are in a good spot and for a time over the top. Doesn't make it any less childish to grab a pitchfork instead of balancing stuff. Thank god you don't make decisions for the devs.

That's all well and good in theory, but we have all know that won't happen because powercreep. We can all see that sorc is the clear cut best class but any time sorc balance is even talked about, all the militant players hop out. Even though they have everything in PvP. Class balance aside from sorc is OK, (Classes like DK/templar have iffy abilities but are ok) so why buff other classes and maybe end up with unpredictable results, instead tone down sorc a little.

Alcast · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

Dymence · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

If your magicka and stamina are only 3k dps apart in MOL, that means one of two things.

Your magicka DDs are god tier players.

Your stamina DDs are below average players.

Take your pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

Alcast · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

If your magicka and stamina are only 3k dps apart in MOL, that means one of two things.

Your magicka DDs are god tier players.

Your stamina DDs are below average players.

Take your pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

I can compare stuff in vhof, because there I got tons of DPS screenshots from my guild. other trials like I said, we went vSO for a few runs and dps difference wasnt that huge. If you can give me some examples for vhof, I can show you some dps charts. If you wanna compare stuff from other trials, you need to find someone else.

Dymence · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

If your magicka and stamina are only 3k dps apart in MOL, that means one of two things.

Your magicka DDs are god tier players.

Your stamina DDs are below average players.

Take your pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

I can compare stuff in vhof, because there I got tons of DPS screenshots from my guild. other trials like I said, we went vSO for a few runs and dps difference wasnt that huge. If you can give me some examples for vhof, I can show you some dps charts. If you wanna compare stuff from other trials, you need to find someone else.

I wouldn't mind seeing some vHoF comparison screenshots honestly. Would be interesting.

My main point of all my posts in this thread is just magicka and stamina aren't really comparable in DPS.

Personally one of the joys of raiding for me and others is being able to compare DPS amongst eachother and have it be like a mini-competition to see who did the best on a certain boss. All magicka classes fall within reasonable range within eachother, but stamina simply steps over it. A stam posts his parse and there's no point even feeling anything about it because it just outclasses magicka by default.

Everyone goes around saying magicka is the best for AOE and cleave damage, and stamina is the best single target. I'd be fine with that. But it isn't like that really.

Take boss fights where there is a HUGE amount of cleave on adds (like last boss vHoF), and even then stamina still pulls ahead in total DPS. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Even the cleave doesn't make up to reach the total DPS that stamina can get because of their single target.

Alcast · August 2017

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

If your magicka and stamina are only 3k dps apart in MOL, that means one of two things.

Your magicka DDs are god tier players.

Your stamina DDs are below average players.

Take your pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

I can compare stuff in vhof, because there I got tons of DPS screenshots from my guild. other trials like I said, we went vSO for a few runs and dps difference wasnt that huge. If you can give me some examples for vhof, I can show you some dps charts. If you wanna compare stuff from other trials, you need to find someone else.

I wouldn't mind seeing some vHoF comparison screenshots honestly. Would be interesting.

My main point of all my posts in this thread is just magicka and stamina aren't really comparable in DPS.

Personally one of the joys of raiding for me and others is being able to compare DPS amongst eachother and have it be like a mini-competition to see who did the best on a certain boss. All magicka classes fall within reasonable range within eachother, but stamina simply steps over it. A stam posts his parse and there's no point even feeling anything about it because it just outclasses magicka by default.

Everyone goes around saying magicka is the best for AOE and cleave damage, and stamina is the best single target. I'd be fine with that. But it isn't like that really.

Take boss fights where there is a HUGE amount of cleave on adds (like last boss vHoF), and even then stamina still pulls ahead in total DPS. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Even the cleave doesn't make up to reach the total DPS that stamina can get because of their single target.

Next patch the gap will get closer, Magicka setups have a way stronger setup available in HotR and Stamina still runs the same old stuff. The only class that is always stronger then anyone else is StamDks. they are about 2-3k ahead of other Stamina setups due to their DoTs and easy sustain compared to other setups.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Its more than fair to stamina pull more dps than magicka classes, you guys can hide behind a gigant shield. go cry in a corner sorcerer, and take your pets with you, no one can stand those little *** anymore stealling buffs

And in the end, it's not really about sorcs...sorcs are just the only magicka-build which can compete against stam-builds...

because sorc was never NEVER nerfad that hard like every other class and can compete against stam build which raised to this high dps 1st time since over year of struggling stamina in any content as it was wrote in this thread many times

so the only thing which we missing i just nerf fusced sorc to ground while buffing every other class because sorc was always possible to play if he wasnt on meta nonstop when other classes was just destroyed to unplayable mode

Never seen more stupid, biased, egoistical crap than this. "Mimimi, other classes got treated badly, instead of raising them back up we should make sorcs unplayable as revenge! I take this personal and I'm not capable of granting someone else something. Revenge! Revenge! mimimi" So sad to read something like this. Sure they were/ are in a good spot and for a time over the top. Doesn't make it any less childish to grab a pitchfork instead of balancing stuff. Thank god you don't make decisions for the devs.

That's all well and good in theory, but we have all know that won't happen because powercreep. We can all see that sorc is the clear cut best class but any time sorc balance is even talked about, all the militant players hop out. Even though they have everything in PvP. Class balance aside from sorc is OK, (Classes like DK/templar have iffy abilities but are ok) so why buff other classes and maybe end up with unpredictable results, instead tone down sorc a little.

Right, but he didnt talk about nerfing sorcs a little. Emphasis was on his "nerf sorcs to the ground" (repeat: to ground) and "because sorc was always possible to play". If that matters anything to you. Nerfing something into unplayability just because they were "too strong" won't help the game and it's balance at all. It's just stupid, egoistical demands for the sake of revenge. Don't you think? It's one thing to bring the class back into line ( throug sorc Nerfs and/or buffs to the rest), to destroy a class is something different.

revonine · August 2017

DeliCreep wrote: »

Also TFS is way too OP compared to any other stam set, so nerf that too...

Yes, when medium armor gets free penetration for wearing 5pc's like magicka classes do with light armor.

Dymence · August 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k.

Dymence wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DeliCreep wrote: »

Update 15 hits mag a lot harder than stam, and because of this, a stamdk's dps can be around 23% higher than a magsorc's dps, but stam sustain is infinite. I know that stam DDs can't really have a 100% uptime on bosses, but still the dps difference is way too high. Also this is for PvE and based on alcast's new builds.

get your facts straight

We have fully optimized stamina setups. NMG, Sunderflame, Morag Tong. OBVIOUSLY we gonna do more damage.

@Alcast I'm guessing you're running Sunderflame on a stamDK (that's what we're doing), but what about Morag Tong? That on a stamDK too? Same one that's running Sunderflame or do you guys have 2 stamDKs right now (e.g., one is Hunding's + Sunderflame and the other is Hunding's + Morag Tong?)

Morag Tong is only worth it if you have 3 StamDKs. Morag Tong adds about 2k extra DPS on each StamDK.
Stam1: 5x Sunder, 5x Hundings
Stam2: 5x NMG, 5x VO
Stam3: 5x Morag, 5x Hundings

Dymence wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Stam begins to actually perform comparably alongside magicka in PvE DPS (not even on live no less) and the first thing the magicka-main-only community wants to do is nerf it.

Y'all are sad. Stop whining for changes when something doesn't favor you specifically.

Uh-huh.

10k DPS more is comparable.

All right buddy.

Most magicka setups pull around 27k on last boss in vHoF. Stamina pulls about 30k, i dont think that 10k gap is realistic.

I don't think the last boss of vHoF is a good place to measure DPS though, but sure.

you can take any boss in vhof and difference is about the same.

What about any of the other trials?

same, at least for MOL, SO. havent been in AA and HRC

If your magicka and stamina are only 3k dps apart in MOL, that means one of two things.

Your magicka DDs are god tier players.

Your stamina DDs are below average players.

Take your pick. Perhaps a bit of both.

I can compare stuff in vhof, because there I got tons of DPS screenshots from my guild. other trials like I said, we went vSO for a few runs and dps difference wasnt that huge. If you can give me some examples for vhof, I can show you some dps charts. If you wanna compare stuff from other trials, you need to find someone else.

I wouldn't mind seeing some vHoF comparison screenshots honestly. Would be interesting.

My main point of all my posts in this thread is just magicka and stamina aren't really comparable in DPS.

Personally one of the joys of raiding for me and others is being able to compare DPS amongst eachother and have it be like a mini-competition to see who did the best on a certain boss. All magicka classes fall within reasonable range within eachother, but stamina simply steps over it. A stam posts his parse and there's no point even feeling anything about it because it just outclasses magicka by default.

Everyone goes around saying magicka is the best for AOE and cleave damage, and stamina is the best single target. I'd be fine with that. But it isn't like that really.

Take boss fights where there is a HUGE amount of cleave on adds (like last boss vHoF), and even then stamina still pulls ahead in total DPS. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Even the cleave doesn't make up to reach the total DPS that stamina can get because of their single target.

Next patch the gap will get closer, Magicka setups have a way stronger setup available in HotR and Stamina still runs the same old stuff. The only class that is always stronger then anyone else is StamDks. they are about 2-3k ahead of other Stamina setups due to their DoTs and easy sustain compared to other setups.

Thanks for the parses.

I guess we'll see how it pans out with the new magicka setups. I am kinda excited about running new stuff again though.