Third difficulty for pledge dungeons

Medakon

They should implement a third difficulty, where all red stuff on ground is 1 hit mechanic, and you cannot revive players while in combat, and monsters hit harder. Reward for doing this is gold gear instead of purple, like last boss drops gold monster mask etc. Also, add new achivments to these dungeons, and maybe new mechanics to boss fights?

Asardes

Medakon wrote: »

They should implement a third difficulty, where all red stuff on ground is 1 hit mechanic, and you cannot revive players while in combat, and monsters hit harder. Reward for doing this is gold gear instead of purple, like last boss drops gold monster mask etc. Also, add new achivments to these dungeons, and maybe new mechanics to boss fights?

Well the quality doesn't matter that much actually, since all things except jewelry can be improved, and the difference between gold and purple jewelry is negligible in overall stats. It's the traits that really matter. So that's why I was proposing a smaller loot pool, trait-wise, as an incentive to complete the "handicap" difficulty.

yukikenzo

NO

Coilbox

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Not all of us are, best of the best of the best, so a even higher difficulty would be insane.

Then don't play it. For people who are looking for a true challenge, we should have access to that.

If the difficulty level is too low for you, don't play...

yukikenzo wrote: »

NO

This kind of comments... seriously, with all due respect, think a bit before talking ***.


It wouldnt have absolutely ANY downsides to have another option or options. If you like the veteran level, perfect... play veteran level, but if someone finds it way too easy, is it not fair to have more options..?? why not adding more levels of difficult? you people saying just 'NO' are ridiculous and selfish.

Having more options is always a big PLUS, you can still keep playing whatever level you enjoy, allow the rest do the same. And telling people to just leave the game cause its not too engaging for them anymore... well, thats the answer a 10 years old kid would give.

Sleep

1. normal. same as the current normal mode.
2. veteran. a bit easier than the current veteran mode.
3. elite. harder than the current veteran mode. ranked, leader board, weekly reward, better loot, yolo, for premade groups only.

Ashtaris

Blanco wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Not all of us are, best of the best of the best, so a even higher difficulty would be insane.

Then don't play it. For people who are looking for a true challenge, we should have access to that.

That's a pretty negative attitude. You may consider that some of us are older players and not the leet like you are. Although we do OK in most HM Vet Dungeons, we still struggle once in awhile. If anything, we need a intermediary step between Normal and Vet where there is too much of a power gap. Having said that, I would not be opposed to having another step above HM Vet as well for all you leetist

Turelus

Sleep wrote: »

1. normal. same as the current normal mode.
2. veteran. a bit easier than the current veteran mode.
3. elite. harder than the current veteran mode. ranked, leader board, weekly reward, better loot, yolo, for premade groups only.

So are you after challenging gameplay, or rewards?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Coilbox wrote: »

This kind of comments... seriously, with all due respect, think a bit before talking ***.

And you should read the whole thread before writing out of context.

I've already explained how what you call "options" becomes a "must" and has consequences for all players. I'm quite tired of the 0.01% top trying to impose their norms onto everyone else.

Flameheart

Asardes wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

I ran in some PUGs where I indeed thought you need an additional level of difficulty:

Beginner - Normal - Veteran

I thought Pugs usually were the additional level of difficulty?

"Altars
Altars
Altars
...."

Me PUG-ing Wayrest Sewers 2 back in the day, to the other 3 players which were beating on a ghostly harvester, after being explained what to do in detail before the fight started

Just a few days ago I ran a vet instance with my tank where the Sorc-healer had a froststaff equipped and actively used it for heavy attacking. After the third healer death I asked in chat if the healer knew WHY he actually died ?

Answer: tank lost aggro.

So my image of a beginner level would be a 5-10 minutes prelude where all players just have to read skill tooltips of one random skill line and answer a mutiple choice question afterwards. Until then all mobs are passive and unattackable. I thought about that nice Khajiit from the crown box game as the teacher.

Stahlor

Just give us another level of difficulty. As soon as there is special loot, lots of people are crying. There is also no special loot for hm trials, hm dungeons and flawless conquerer. Maybe titles would be nice...

Stahlor

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

This kind of comments... seriously, with all due respect, think a bit before talking ***.

And you should read the whole thread before writing out of context.

I've already explained how what you call "options" becomes a "must" and has consequences for all players. I'm quite tired of the 0.01% top trying to impose their norms onto everyone else.

Sorry I cannot see anything influencing your actual game joy by having another level mode for dungeons...

anitajoneb17_ESO

Stahlor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

This kind of comments... seriously, with all due respect, think a bit before talking ***.

And you should read the whole thread before writing out of context.

I've already explained how what you call "options" becomes a "must" and has consequences for all players. I'm quite tired of the 0.01% top trying to impose their norms onto everyone else.

Sorry I cannot see anything influencing your actual game joy by having another level mode for dungeons...

There's no point explaining any further if you refuse to see/understand, sorry.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Flameheart wrote: »

So my image of a beginner level would be a 5-10 minutes prelude where all players just have to read skill tooltips of one random skill line and answer a mutiple choice question afterwards. Until then all mobs are passive and unattackable. I thought about that nice Khajiit from the crown box game as the teacher.

Sure... there should be an exam and perhaps also a diploma to even start a game that people have paid for... just to make sure that your future dungeon buddies are up to your expectations... ???
(edit : sorry if I sound sarcastic but in fact I am... "good" players and their expectations... is it that difficult to get that not everyone is like you ? that not everyone is meant nor obliged nor wanting to be good in a video game ?)

kylewwefan

I think the loot system is fine how it is. I wouldn't be completely opposed to dropping legendary jewelry though.

Flameheart

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

So my image of a beginner level would be a 5-10 minutes prelude where all players just have to read skill tooltips of one random skill line and answer a mutiple choice question afterwards. Until then all mobs are passive and unattackable. I thought about that nice Khajiit from the crown box game as the teacher.

Sure... there should be an exam and perhaps also a diploma to even start a game that people have paid for... just to make sure that your future dungeon buddies are up to your expectations... ???
(edit : sorry if I sound sarcastic but in fact I am... "good" players and their expectations... is it that difficult to get that not everyone is like you ? that not everyone is meant nor obliged nor wanting to be good in a video game ?)

noun: exaggeration; plural noun: exaggerations

a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is

Actually your sarcasm detector failed.

...but actually there is also a big difference between not knowing basics like skill effects described in a tooltip (heavy frost staff attacks have a taunt effect) and instance specific mechanics or game mechanics hidden in a sublevel of mathematics.

The former should be easily avoidable, the later comes with playing and experience. We never stop learning.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Flameheart wrote: »

noun: exaggeration; plural noun: exaggerations

a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is

Actually your sarcasm detector failed.

...but actually there is also a big difference between not knowing basics like skill effects described in a tooltip (heavy frost staff attacks have a taunt effect) and instance specific mechanics or game mechanics hidden in a sublevel of mathematics.

The former should be easily avoidable, the later comes with playing and experience. We never stop learning.

Well, if ZOS had implemented such a "reading comprehension" test they'd have lost me (and probably many others) as a customer, since I didn't know what a tank was, let alone a taunt, and not even a heavy attack, when I first started the game. So yeah... I'm exaggerating ?

These are not things you learn in a tutorial (let alone in a "forced" tutorial). You learn it by playing and by being in a guild and socializing and playing with people. I remember the very first question I asked my first guildies when I first joined that guild, it was "aggro ? what's aggro ?". And for one person like me who isn't shy and asks questions and doesn't mind being a newb, there are dozens who will never join a guild, never speak up and never ask for fear of other people's reactions. So yeah...

Flameheart

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

noun: exaggeration; plural noun: exaggerations

a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is

Actually your sarcasm detector failed.

...but actually there is also a big difference between not knowing basics like skill effects described in a tooltip (heavy frost staff attacks have a taunt effect) and instance specific mechanics or game mechanics hidden in a sublevel of mathematics.

The former should be easily avoidable, the later comes with playing and experience. We never stop learning.

Well, if ZOS had implemented such a "reading comprehension" test they'd have lost me (and probably many others) as a customer, since I didn't know what a tank was, let alone a taunt, and not even a heavy attack, when I first started the game. So yeah... I'm exaggerating ?

These are not things you learn in a tutorial (let alone in a "forced" tutorial). You learn it by playing and by being in a guild and socializing and playing with people. I remember the very first question I asked my first guildies when I first joined that guild, it was "aggro ? what's aggro ?". And for one person like me who isn't shy and asks questions and doesn't mind being a newb, there are dozens who will never join a guild, never speak up and never ask for fear of other people's reactions. So yeah...

Not you, I was sarcastic and exaggerating. It was just a hint, that reading tooltips might prevent some of the more annyoing mistakes somebody is able to make.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Flameheart wrote: »

Not you, I was sarcastic and exaggerating. It was just a hint, that reading tooltips might prevent some of the more annyoing mistakes somebody is able to make.

Oh ! I get it now. Finally :-) and I also get it what you said my sarcasm detector had failed In my defense, so many people are dead serious when they say that newbies and less good players must do their homework before setting foot in any dungeon, that it was hard to detect

And yes it's always good to read tooltips; but unfortunately tooltips are a whole topic for themselves and most of them fail miserably at actually describing a skill with any sort of accuracy. It tells you little about the actual components of a skill (proc chance, base, scale, range... ). When I first used liquid lightning I was spamming it like I'd spam healing springs... where "tf" does it say that liquid lightning doesn't stack and that healing springs stack... ?

idk

Destruent wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

In fact dungeons should be seen as a preparatory content for trials, which are real end game content. If guilds get tensed about 4 man dungeon completion they have no reason to keep going. The purpose of guilds is to allow people to organize for trials, since it's much harder to band 12 people together.

Imo dungeondifficulty is too low to prepare for trials. You don't need to play as a group to complete them...so how do they prepare for anything?

Making a more challenging version of the dungeons would not make much of a difference.

Increased difficulty would merely be more HP on NPCs and bosses and more damage being out out. Zos has no reason to nothing with adding mechanics.

It would add one thing. It would add more entertainment in the forums about QQ that it's to difficult and that all these players cannot play well enough (read as cannot find players to carry me).

Dungeons are really just that stepping stone for players to get used to some mechanics and such. Trials are intended to be the stronger challenge and they are.

Maybe Zos can create the more challenging dungeons and require clears of HM of all trials for a player to have access. Then it would be like a reward.

karldavy149b16_ESO

got to give a big thumps up for this idea .... most of the content is a pure snooze fest ... i cant seem to find 12 half decent guys to go do some vet trials what i can do is solo most of the vet dungeons ... and frankly its a poor show ... i can however get 4 decent guys together to blast thro every dungeon in the game in 20 mins or less ... and thats an even poorer show how about some more 4 man difficulty levels introduced ... those that can will, those that cant do vet ... maybe not drop legendary gear tho ... keep it the same ...


you could however read a scroll at the begining of the dungeon ... buffing adds/bosses health / damage/ more cc, more than the scrolls already do for the last boss and if u do that it as to be voted my all 4 party members befor it can be succesfully read .... do it on that difficulty could reward 3/4 keys and a substaintial haul of gold/repairkits

karldavy149b16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I think it's a good thing when more challenging to do things give out better rewards. That's what progression is.

That's what you think, what you enjoy, and that's of course ok as such. But if you see this from ZOS' point of view, they have to gain AND retain as many players as possible - with an incredible variety of interests and motivations.
Among these varieties of players, many will not WANT to progress (because "gitting gud" isn't their motivation) and also many will not BE ABLE to progress beyond a certain level.
ZOS' interest is to make "progression" as artificial as can be, because what they want is to keep people playing together and not create such a wide gap as the one we're stuck in right now (DPS 1x=>20x for instance).
ZOS needs to keeps a "feeling" of progression, but needs to keep the actual progress of good players as low as possible.

most really cant do veteran dungeons anyway ... and most really dont care

anitajoneb17_ESO

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe Zos can create the more challenging dungeons and require clears of HM of all trials for a player to have access. Then it would be like a reward.

Yeah... like... they're going to develop complicated, interesting and sophisticated content... just to sell it to 0.01% of the playerbase ??? Dream on
Admittedly they could do that bundled with other DLC or expansion content... but look at what happened with Imperial City... they originally intended to make it accessible only to factions with ownership of certains keeps... they had to back off on that because people threatened to sur them : they were supposed to access the content they'd paid for without conditions.
Also, look at the people complaining that battlegrounds are bundled with Morrowind...

The general point is that new content isn't meant as a REWARD for good players. It's meant to be SOLD to the largest possible population.

idk

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe Zos can create the more challenging dungeons and require clears of HM of all trials for a player to have access. Then it would be like a reward.

Yeah... like... they're going to develop complicated, interesting and sophisticated content... just to sell it to 0.01% of the playerbase ??? Dream on
Admittedly they could do that bundled with other DLC or expansion content... but look at what happened with Imperial City... they originally intended to make it accessible only to factions with ownership of certains keeps... they had to back off on that because people threatened to sur them : they were supposed to access the content they'd paid for without conditions.
Also, look at the people complaining that battlegrounds are bundled with Morrowind...

The general point is that new content isn't meant as a REWARD for good players. It's meant to be SOLD to the largest possible population.

What you left in the quote was intended as a joke. It's to drive home the point there is plenty of challenging PvE in the game and adding (what would be) a 4th tier of difficulty for the dungeons is not needed.

Further, there is new content intended to be a challenge for groups. vHoF is still new content. The new dungeons will be an experience in the beginning and we have a mini-trial that is intended to be added later in the year. All new group content.

Of course, one a group has worked on something to get it down well and in "farm" it's not going to be as challenging for them. That's life.

BTW, what would really be good is HM for the entire trial.

sekou_trayvond

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CP has allowed players to become walking raid bosses. 630 CP (660 CP next patch) literally makes you invincible while giving you astronomical DPS.

I want to go to there.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What you left in the quote was intended as a joke. It's to drive home the point there is plenty of challenging PvE in the game and adding (what would be) a 4th tier of difficulty for the dungeons is not needed.

2nd time today my sarcasm/humor detector fails... I'll go for a walk I guess I apologize

Atmosfear

I would love a nightmare mode actually, vet trials are fun and challenging but dungeons are boring af for an optimized group, they really are.

If they do so, they can nerf every other mode i wouldnt really care

Destruent

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

In fact dungeons should be seen as a preparatory content for trials, which are real end game content. If guilds get tensed about 4 man dungeon completion they have no reason to keep going. The purpose of guilds is to allow people to organize for trials, since it's much harder to band 12 people together.

Imo dungeondifficulty is too low to prepare for trials. You don't need to play as a group to complete them...so how do they prepare for anything?

Making a more challenging version of the dungeons would not make much of a difference.

Increased difficulty would merely be more HP on NPCs and bosses and more damage being out out. Zos has no reason to nothing with adding mechanics.

It would add one thing. It would add more entertainment in the forums about QQ that it's to difficult and that all these players cannot play well enough (read as cannot find players to carry me).

Dungeons are really just that stepping stone for players to get used to some mechanics and such. Trials are intended to be the stronger challenge and they are.

Maybe Zos can create the more challenging dungeons and require clears of HM of all trials for a player to have access. Then it would be like a reward.

Tbh, dungeons don't need to be "harder" in case of more HP, inc dmg and such. They should just force you to do the mechanics or die bc of them or be unable to kill the enemy.
Anyone remember the groups of adds in WGT where you had to seperate healer and the rest of the group to kill them?
Anyone remember the mechanic of the DK-group in WGT?
Anyone remember the time, when it was nearly a wipe when you had more than one flesh attro at the flesh-sculptor in ICP?

All those things are just a stack and burn nowadays, which is easy for experienced playersb (and even for most not that inexperienced players i guess)...a "harder" mode should just have such mechanics to be more meaningfull again and it would be great. That's the biggest thing missing in todays 4-men-content imo...

Stahlor

New mechanics would mean too much effort for zenimax and only for very small group of players. You would need to play the already existing mechanics, if the enemies would have more health and damage, that you cannot burn them anymore in seconds.

LadyNalcarya

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

I ran in some PUGs where I indeed thought you need an additional level of difficulty:

Beginner - Normal - Veteran

I thought Pugs usually were the additional level of difficulty?

They are! Lol.
Today I pugged for BC1 vet on a tank (just needed undaunted), and my group had a grand total of 7k dps combined... The sad part? One of the dds was cp630 sorc with volatile familiar (they never activated the pets aura, though).
We cleared the dungeon, but I think I wasted 20 soul gems on the last boss alone (I guess no one knew how to block and they probably thought that standing in fire is ok for their health ).

Coilbox

yukikenzo wrote: »

NO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

This kind of comments... seriously, with all due respect, think a bit before talking ***.

And you should read the whole thread before writing out of context.

I've already explained how what you call "options" becomes a "must" and has consequences for all players. I'm quite tired of the 0.01% top trying to impose their norms onto everyone else.

No one is impossing anything on anyone, some people play normal, some people play veteran, easy as that... some people find veteran not very challenging anymore, more options for older players would be good. Period.