PC/NA Vivec

zyk

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

Edit:

The conditions that resulted in this post are no longer true. A lot has changed since then. Though I'd love to see some players who used to main AD characters come back, AD is in much better shape than it was.

Vilestride

Elaborate more maybe? Are you saying DC and EP don't pressure each other enough or just that there is too much pressure on AD? from an EP perspective there is more constant heat between chal and bleakers than anywhere else on the map ever so I dunno. We can't not defend ourselves against AD when they hit BRK/drake and we're not going to only push offensively on DC because quite frankly that's a lag fest. Its good for fights to spread out to everyone on the map. Even when its not kosher map gameplay.

Ackwalan

Whenever I see a post like this, I have the same suggestion. Roll up a character for the other alliance, and you will see the same exact complaint. The other two are gaining up on us.

Drummerx04

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

No, actually we really are interested in good fights.

What you are experiencing is known as a "delusional break from reality." Every faction gets frequently assaulted by the other two factions simultaneously. It's not a unique experience by AD, nor is getting double teamed while in 3rd place.

We all experience it, and it can suck, but AD is most certainly not a victim. Perhaps if we could leave Ash unattended for 2 minutes to fight the full EP faction in the Ales-Chal corridor - without Ash turning yellow - DC might feel some pity for you.

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

zyk

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whenever I see a post like this, I have the same suggestion. Roll up a character for the other alliance, and you will see the same exact complaint. The other two are gaining up on us.

There are always those who feel that way when it is not actually happening disproportionately, but that doesn't mean that it's never true. In this case, I've been keenly observing the map throughout the day since the event -- even when I'm not PVPing -- and it's pretty obvious there is more activity to the south. I suppose I should have been taking screenshots at regular intervals to demonstrate my point, but I did not intend to post about this.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

And this is precisely why we are being focused on. Not only do we lack guild groups at the moment, but we lack experienced players with strong builds and groups of all sizes. Most of AD Vivec atm appears to be new and casual randoms. Since the start of the event, it's been open season on AD.

My understanding is that many AD guilds have recruitment issues. Yet I see experienced AD on the rosters of the best EP and DC guilds. Even the middling guilds. It's an effect that feeds itself because the more players who play for the other sides, the more frustrating it becomes to those who remain and more eventually leave.

Those who want actual good fights should join AD because we're a huge underdog atm. You will be challenged.

Vilestride

You guys won the last campaign. AD can't be that desperate can it? I know your score right now is not even close to the others but you WON literally just 15 days ago, This can't only be an external problem, there must be something within faction your can do to improve the situation.

Your guild presence isn't the strongest I agree but there seems to be a good basis there. Fantasia is a top tier guild, and running regularly in competitive numbers from what I have seen. Then you have Dom Dom running groups and I have even see DIG running some regular groups this cycle. One guild I am curious about though is Dominion Knights? not sure what happened to them?

Now, none of those groups are running full but its an organised presence none the left. Build off that?

WuffyCerulei

It's always Team Green, Team Purple, Team Orange, blah blah blah... It's never the case unless the other 2 factions are trying to dethrone the one with emp.

Kaghei

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It's always Team Green, Team Purple, Team Orange, blah blah blah... It's never the case unless the other 2 factions are trying to dethrone the one with emp.

what about team white and black?

if you dont play the map correctly you will always get doubled teamed

Telel

Ackwalan wrote: »

Whenever I see a post like this, I have the same suggestion. Roll up a character for the other alliance, and you will see the same exact complaint. The other two are gaining up on us.

Whenever I see a post like yours this one is reminded that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdgTM2r_zDA&t=8s

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.

And yes, some of those same 'skilled' players have been on Vivec lately.

WuffyCerulei

Kaghei wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It's always Team Green, Team Purple, Team Orange, blah blah blah... It's never the case unless the other 2 factions are trying to dethrone the one with emp.

what about team white and black?

if you dont play the map correctly you will always get doubled teamed

That doesn't even make sense.

If you mean taking outposts and keeps that are usually staging grounds between the other two factions is "playing the map correctly", you're really just shifting the focus towards your own faction.

Publius_Scipio

All I ever see is 20 AD at Nikel, Ash, Glade, Rayles farm, and 20 EP at Bleakers, Ales farm, Bruma, Dragonclaw. And when at Chalman 50+ EP (strangely with AD showing up even though they have no keeps).

Agrippa_Invisus

Drummerx04 wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

No, actually we really are interested in good fights.

What you are experiencing is known as a "delusional break from reality." Every faction gets frequently assaulted by the other two factions simultaneously. It's not a unique experience by AD, nor is getting double teamed while in 3rd place.

We all experience it, and it can suck, but AD is most certainly not a victim. Perhaps if we could leave Ash unattended for 2 minutes to fight the full EP faction in the Ales-Chal corridor - without Ash turning yellow - DC might feel some pity for you.

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

In AD's defense, when DC has 95+% of its playerbase at Chalman, a old lady and her broom could knock over Ash at that point.

And it's not like DC doesn't do its level best to spend 6+ hours a day squatting in Roe and Brindle, just like EP does at Alessia. Roe's as much an AD keep as Alessia is.

Satiar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

No, actually we really are interested in good fights.

What you are experiencing is known as a "delusional break from reality." Every faction gets frequently assaulted by the other two factions simultaneously. It's not a unique experience by AD, nor is getting double teamed while in 3rd place.

We all experience it, and it can suck, but AD is most certainly not a victim. Perhaps if we could leave Ash unattended for 2 minutes to fight the full EP faction in the Ales-Chal corridor - without Ash turning yellow - DC might feel some pity for you.

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

In AD's defense, when DC has 95+% of its playerbase at Chalman, a old lady and her broom could knock over Ash at that point.

And it's not like DC doesn't do its level best to spend 6+ hours a day squatting in Roe and Brindle, just like EP does at Alessia. Roe's as much an AD keep as Alessia is.

AD draws attention to itself. If I'm fighting EP guilds in the north, AD pushes DC.... even if they don't own Alessia. So I push em back to Fare and camp Roe till they get it in thier heads to attack EP.

I'll never understand why AD would rather run into the meat grinder we set up at Roe/Nikel than attack Alessia.

NBrookus

The Ales-Bleakers-Chal corridor is too tightly packed with a constant choke/point funnel the whole way, while going around it too difficult. If DC owns Bleakers, DC rolls west and pushes Chal en mass. EP stacks Chal and pushes back, and if EP gets Bleakers, well hey, Ales farm is just over the hill, right?

If you don't want to potato back and forth along that corridor, you pretty much have to go fight AD.

Keiryan

Uh this....

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

And mostly this...

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

In AD's defense, when DC has 95+% of its playerbase at Chalman, a old lady and her broom could knock over Ash at that point.

As a DC player, why would I bother going to fight EP? Saying 90% of both factions is tied up between Aleswell and Chalman is actually a fair estimate. I ended fighting and having way more fun against AD last night because it was just so much more open, no body else was really pushing you, you guys weren't pushing either ( the bridge was completely dead the times I was there). I think the only decent fights against ep last night was against nikolia and pm which actually was at Alessia. Keeping the bridge open is of the utmost concern to us and as good citizens as do our best to help whatever side is in need.

Having said that, pretty sure I'm taking k hole and leading on AD tonight.

olivesforge

AD's got several problems - a lack of experienced players compared to the other alliances, for example.

But the biggest problem is that AD absolutely, profoundly, tremendously loves being farmed. If EP is at Alessia, then AD will be there getting farmed. If every single EP on the map has been there for 5 hours, the rest of EP's keeps are totally undefended, and DC has logged completely, AD will insist on being repeatedly slaughtered in front of Alessia instead of doing anything else.

DC's gotten especially good at noticing this, as AD is also obsessed with defending Roe at all costs, even if nobody is hitting it. I've seen AD sit at Roe fighting the same 10 distracting DC who aren't even sieging while DC takes Brindle, Vlastarus, BB and Fare.

Keiryan

Also I just logged in and AD has an EP scroll in Faregyl, things can't be all that doom and gloom

Telel

Keiryan wrote: »

Also I just logged in and AD has an EP scroll in Faregyl, things can't be all that doom and gloom

Unless it was a scroll troll who ran it there despite being asked repeatedly to NOT put it somewhere incredibly vital.

Which has happened several times over the last couple of months. XD

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

No, actually we really are interested in good fights.

What you are experiencing is known as a "delusional break from reality." Every faction gets frequently assaulted by the other two factions simultaneously. It's not a unique experience by AD, nor is getting double teamed while in 3rd place.

We all experience it, and it can suck, but AD is most certainly not a victim. Perhaps if we could leave Ash unattended for 2 minutes to fight the full EP faction in the Ales-Chal corridor - without Ash turning yellow - DC might feel some pity for you.

The only pitiable feature of Vivec AD on PC/NA is the seeming lack of guild power.

In AD's defense, when DC has 95+% of its playerbase at Chalman, a old lady and her broom could knock over Ash at that point.

And it's not like DC doesn't do its level best to spend 6+ hours a day squatting in Roe and Brindle, just like EP does at Alessia. Roe's as much an AD keep as Alessia is.

AD draws attention to itself. If I'm fighting EP guilds in the north, AD pushes DC.... even if they don't own Alessia. So I push em back to Fare and camp Roe till they get it in thier heads to attack EP.

I'll never understand why AD would rather run into the meat grinder we set up at Roe/Nikel than attack Alessia.

The easiest and meanest solution, of course, is to heavily back cap whomever is 'meatgrinder'ing your home keeps.

DC won't get out of Roe/Nik? And EP's either constantly pushing Ales or Chal? No one's going to be in Glademist. Turn it yellow. Hold it for more than 5-10 minutes and watch the front line collapse as DC converges on that one point.

Same happens to EP when we lose Arrius and AD when they lose Faregyl. If it's not retaken quickly, the front line starts to drain of fighters and keeps start falling.

Little bit of guild coordination can make it truly mean. Have small groups flag the two ring keeps near the keystone keep and the two inner gate keeps, then 20/20 the keystone keep. No one is going to make it to you you. But it takes a little bit of setup and timing, but I know AD has guilds who can pull it off. EP does.

I mean AD groups like Fantasia and DomDom regularly end run around Alessia/BRK towards Arrius. I figured they could so the same on the western side, too. Be creative, guys. Don't be fodder for the AP meatgrinder.

Malic

zyk wrote: »

If you're trying to drive the remaining AD from Vivec, GJ.

Despite the fact AD is hopelessly behind in the score, we face constant pressure from groups of all sizes. When I look at the groups hitting us, I see many ex-AD who have joined the farm AD bandwagon.

It's pretty clear most of you aren't interested in actually good, competitive fights.

Good, AD should be zergged with no relief in any campaign. This is punishment for your past crimes, you arent getting anything you want, ever.

CyrusArya

There was a time when AD had some of the best players and guilds in the game. Now it's literally one giant pug zerg. That or guilds that get their entire raid wiped by 6 people. Sad. Hopefully the mighty eagle soars again. The game is more fun when each side has respectable threats.

Elong

AD won the last campaign. Can't be that bad.

Not as bad as having DC camped on your doorstep all through the oceanic hours.

Telel

CyrusArya wrote: »

There was a time when AD had some of the best players and guilds in the game. Now it's literally one giant pug zerg. That or guilds that get their entire raid wiped by 6 people. Sad. Hopefully the mighty eagle soars again. The game is more fun when each side has respectable threats.

Ahem?

Oh, wait. You said threat....never mind.

pcar944

fyi I have been seeing A LOT of DC playing on EP side at random times (and some times AD but not as much)

and as far as double teaming, happens all the time, all factions do it, only sucks if that's the only time you can play

Nutshotz

@zyk


this guy is pissed that certain players who have characters on all 3 factions, who pvp on all 3 factions and farm all 3 factions, not just 1 faction. he's pissed that he gets face rolled or doesn't get his way. most players have had characters on other factions since the get go and the players who made a new toon just for the winning side, well I don't know what to say to that.

by no means is this a taunt message its a proven fact! ive said my peace!


[Edit for flaming]

zyk

Elong wrote: »

AD won the last campaign. Can't be that bad.

Not as bad as having DC camped on your doorstep all through the oceanic hours.

A lot has changed since then. In particular, the event put an emphasis on earning AP. We felt certain EP and DC groups were embedded in AD territory during the event. Many will admit to it privately. But still, there were competitive parity issues the last campaign too. AD players were just more focused on the map than our opponents and pulled out a tight win with a great effort at the end.

@Keiryan I am not saying AD is being crushed 100% of the time. We have our moments during certain intervals. I am speaking generally.

@Satiar Oh yes, like last night? Just after AD took back Nikel from a significant DC force including a significant khole presence, VE immediately leads a stack of 40+ DC to steamroll AD randoms and take Nikel + Roe while other DC took Brindle. This is normal and what we expect from VE -- going back to when you were an EP guild in 1.5. You talk GvG and map play, but largely go for AP in my experience.

CyrusArya wrote: »

There was a time when AD had some of the best players and guilds in the game. Now it's literally one giant pug zerg. That or guilds that get their entire raid wiped by 6 people. Sad. Hopefully the mighty eagle soars again. The game is more fun when each side has respectable threats.

Why do you think this so? Did these players quit the game? Or did they quit the faction?

It's so easy to play multiple factions, most players take the selfish approach of choosing whichever faction suits them the best. Using a pro sports analogy, AD hasn't been a destination for a long time. So we bleed experienced players. Especially those drawn to popular EP and DC guilds and scenes.

I'm not just talking about "good" players. I'm talking about competent, experienced PVP players of all types -- solo, small/large group, and lane surfers. For the good of competitive parity in ESO, we need those players to be replaced. In particular, we need leaders.

So, again I say, those looking to fight good competition, come to AD Vivec. They are, disproportionately, on the other sides.

NACtron

The best thing for AD right now is to have a couple of consistent guilds start up.

AD has Fantasia couple times a week and Dom Dom nightly. That's all that I can think of in terms of AD guilds right now. During primetime. That is just not enough.

DC has:
VE
BoD
Pug Guild

EP has:
Drac
IVS
PM
Kush

Most of those EP/DC guilds run at least 5 nights a week.

Elong

@zyk this was last night.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

[
@Satiar Oh yes, like last night? Just after AD took back Nikel from a significant DC force including a significant khole presence, VE immediately leads a stack of 40+ DC to steamroll AD randoms and take Nikel + Roe while other DC took Brindle. This is normal and what we expect from VE -- going back to when you were an EP guild in 1.5. You talk GvG and map play, but largely go for AP in my experience.

Sometimes you're cool but sometimes you're just full of it. Oh no, VE took Nikel and Roe, tragedy! And somehow that's... not map play? For a significant portion of the night we owned DC to Brindle, Roe to Chal.

As for guilds, you should know better. This week alone I've had 20+ fights with Invictus and Drac, probably 4-5 with Fantasia and plenty with the AD raid guilds (DD I believe). You don't play with any guilds anymore, you have zero idea who fights who and how often so you should avoid spouting off like you do. Last night the only guild on worth fighting was PM so we fought them. Was there some grand AD guild I don't know about on the map? Where were they fighting? Who are they?

Really man. Going back to 1.5? When we constantly rammed our heads into Decibel, a much more experienced guild? When we rerolled to the faction with no top end guilds to fight against Havoc, against Deci, against Rage, on EP emp servers? We fought the guilds you played with until they disintegrated. You got out of that scene a long time ago, and that's fine, but you're still talking like you know anything and it's just dumb.

zyk

@Satiar You're right, I shouldn't dis VE like that. Or any of the guilds I might call out in zone chat when I feel there's a competitive imbalance. I largely respect our opponents, including VE. I don't think my POV is as invalid as you say, but this isn't about VE or me.

On the other hand, you've been part of an ESO organization for so long, perhaps you forget what it's like to be on the other side, if you ever knew at all. Maybe back in 1.3 when AD was still dominant and you played solo and in small groups?

It's been very frustrating for many AD at all levels to deal with the competitive imbalance that exists. We still have some great guilds and many awesome and experienced players. I'm not dissing our guilds or players either. But I think it's widely accepted that AD has the greatest percentage of random casuals. I think this has been true for a long time and a greater issue now than ever.

Again, I'm not just talking about prominent guilds. I am talking about guilds and groups of all sizes.

My OP was a kneejerk reaction to another tough night for the faction, and though I didn't intend to post, I think it needed to be said for the good of the game. The best fights and map play come from competitive parity. Laydown wins should be boring to any truly competitive player. AD needs an infusion of experienced players to replace all those we've lost.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

@Satiar You're right, I shouldn't dis VE like that. Or any of the guilds I might call out in zone chat when I feel there's a competitive imbalance. I largely respect our opponents, including VE. I don't think my POV is as invalid as you say, but this isn't about VE or me.

On the other hand, you've been part of an ESO organization for so long, perhaps you forget what it's like to be on the other side, if you ever knew at all. Maybe back in 1.3 when AD was still dominant and you played solo and in small groups?

It's been very frustrating for many AD at all levels to deal with the competitive imbalance that exists. We still have some great guilds and many awesome and experienced players. I'm not dissing our guilds or players either. But I think it's widely accepted that AD has the greatest percentage of random casuals. I think this has been true for a long time and a greater issue now than ever.

Again, I'm not just talking about prominent guilds. I am talking about guilds and groups of all sizes.

My OP was a kneejerk reaction to another tough night for the faction, and though I didn't intend to post, I think it needed to be said for the good of the game. The best fights and map play come from competitive parity. Laydown wins should be boring to any truly competitive player. AD needs an infusion of experienced players to replace all those we've lost.

It's all good.

I really dunno what ADs gonna do. You're right, its good players are scattered. It is a sad day when you realize that many if not most of the "big name" AD players remaining in the game have rerolled to DC and EP. In the end the only thing that will solve it is leadership. When VE leadership took a break from the game you can see pretty much the same thing: some left the game, some left the large scale scene to small man, some went to Khole, some Fantasia, etc. And I reckon that's what happened to AD, thier leads stopped leading and the players scattered.

But for inspiration, look at EP. I'm obviously not a big fan of Drac but when the EU guys came over and started leading on the regular they absolutely revitalized the high end PvP community there. People rerolled to trial with them. The old Haxus crew went from a dwindling group that ran 10+ on occasion to a regular force. It shows there are obviously players who want to play, they just need a lead and a place to play.

As for me, I remember. I remember taking a bunch of zone pugs to BRK and getting rocked by Decibel and Alacrity a dozen times a night. I remember combining groups with Havoc one night cuz they couldn't do *** either; that went rly bad, I don't think Anon knew how raw our trainees were.

But here's the thing: at some point something in the game broke down. Every MMO I've played people looked up to the top guilds. You wanted to beat them, you wanted to play with them! I looked at Deci and I wanted to be better than them. Getting rocked by Deci/NM and playing with Havoc showed me what was possible from a really high end group and that was an inspiring challenge. Nowadays tho? No one respects the top guilds, no one really likes them and no one wants to play with them. The high end community is generally regarded as a cancer, a bunch of exploiting, skill spamming elitist zerglings. Which, ok, every community has its problems. But I'd say in this game there is very little desire to be a part of that community, and so you have very few people striving for that (as opposed to early game). The heroes of this game aren't the guilds, it's the small scalers and soloers. And once you get a faction of those, well... in a RvRvR game that's rough. Because I'm gonna roll up with a well-oiled raid and take Nikel and Roe, and EP will do the same in the east and now it's discouraging.

Anyways, I did come back at you hard avd for that I apologize. I could have set the record straight with less fervor.