[PC/NA Sotha Sil] This is getting out of hand...

Machete

This is absurd. Every night at 4 AM EST this happens. Every. Night. With no repercussions what so ever to the players that do this. Specific DC guild come in here and paint the map blue. At first I thought, more AP. Just like everyone else who wanted to farm these groups. But it only got worse, having more numbers follow them in the early hours of the morning. It comes to a point where it's demoralizing, that no matter how much work AD and EP put in, the morning of it will be blue. EP has no oceanic presence that I'm aware of, and AD has DiE but they don't stay up as long. To which we are left with a map we have to clean up *Again*, the same emperor we have to depose yet *Again*, and countless days we have to face a DC faction stack almost always at Aleswell and Glademist. Not to mention the whole blob of DC crutches behind unreal amounts of siege because it's broken how strong it is in Sotha Sil. (Waiting for that nerf when spell crafting comes around, eh?) It's not fun anymore. DC is effectively killing the campaign, I don't even log into the campaign unless I know TM is running. And even then, I'm tired of getting zerged with 10 to 1 odds. Maybe this has been posted before in another part of the Sotha Sil forum, but that doesn't make the headlines like showing this does.

MissBizz

You need to take those guilds names out of the post or else your thread is going to end up getting closed for naming and shaming....

Machete

MissBizz wrote: »

You need to take those guilds names out of the post or else your thread is going to end up getting closed for naming and shaming....

Looking better?

apostate9

Of course, everyone knows who he is talking about....

(sigh)

MissBizz

Machete wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

You need to take those guilds names out of the post or else your thread is going to end up getting closed for naming and shaming....

Looking better?

Yup! Just wanted to warn you as I'm sure you didn't make the thread just to have it closed

Dutchessx

I agree @Machette - they won't even negotiate to leave tri-keeps alone when there aren't any scrolls. The specific guild is on multiple times of the day so it isn't that they are oceanic which would be semi-understandable if that was their prime time but it is just the most convient time to pvdoor the map. When US Prime rolls around they appear to log out & then come back towards the end of prime time to add to the DC set & then finish it off in the early morning hours. It is my opinion that even if both AD & EP had groups during that time to fight them they would just change the time they pvdoor the map. I also hear they have bragged on other games that they have the server on lock down. If that is so then the only way they can say that is because they appear to avoid times that taking the map would be an actual fight. I don't know what can be done about it. The pvp population seems to be getting smaller due to things like this.

Adenoma

The impressive thing is that they're so baaaaaad. At least most of the folks in the morning crew for EST. But at least they're free AP if you can separate them from the herd.

Agrippa_Invisus

I am going to be the broken record to this, but the ultimate solution is dynamic population caps. Restrict the highest population to some percentage of the lowest (eg: 110%) and then you are going to see those giant stacks forced to split up to be able to play. This balances the factions amongst each other.

If players all want to stack the same faction, they can wait their turn while others have no queue whatsoever.

Players, over the years, have proven without a doubt that no amount of pleading will influence the player behavior. They'll take the cheap win every time. Sure some small groups will do the right thing, but overall human nature will win out and the path of least resistance will be taken.

Force them to split to be able to play and you'll see new groups form in EP and AD of former DC, or you'll see fewer DC. Either way is a win for game balance. (and these faction names can and will rotate based off which faction it is -- Imagine EP's population tied to the Shor DC pop currently on NA PC).

Maikon

Machete wrote: »

This is absurd. Every night at 4 AM EST this happens. Every. Night. With no repercussions what so ever to the players that do this. Specific DC guild come in here and paint the map blue. At first I thought, more AP. Just like everyone else who wanted to farm these groups. But it only got worse, having more numbers follow them in the early hours of the morning. It comes to a point where it's demoralizing, that no matter how much work AD and EP put in, the morning of it will be blue. EP has no oceanic presence that I'm aware of, and AD has DiE but they don't stay up as long. To which we are left with a map we have to clean up *Again*, the same emperor we have to depose yet *Again*, and countless days we have to face a DC faction stack almost always at Aleswell and Glademist. Not to mention the whole blob of DC crutches behind unreal amounts of siege because it's broken how strong it is in Sotha Sil. (Waiting for that nerf when spell crafting comes around, eh?) It's not fun anymore. DC is effectively killing the campaign, I don't even log into the campaign unless I know TM is running. And even then, I'm tired of getting zerged with 10 to 1 odds. Maybe this has been posted before in another part of the Sotha Sil forum, but that doesn't make the headlines like showing this does.

If you didn't already know, a certain DK is intentionally trying to destroy the server so he can have perma-emp status.

Itsnotarealwar

Why though? That seems boring.

Machete

Maikon wrote: »

Machete wrote: »

This is absurd. Every night at 4 AM EST this happens. Every. Night. With no repercussions what so ever to the players that do this. Specific DC guild come in here and paint the map blue. At first I thought, more AP. Just like everyone else who wanted to farm these groups. But it only got worse, having more numbers follow them in the early hours of the morning. It comes to a point where it's demoralizing, that no matter how much work AD and EP put in, the morning of it will be blue. EP has no oceanic presence that I'm aware of, and AD has DiE but they don't stay up as long. To which we are left with a map we have to clean up *Again*, the same emperor we have to depose yet *Again*, and countless days we have to face a DC faction stack almost always at Aleswell and Glademist. Not to mention the whole blob of DC crutches behind unreal amounts of siege because it's broken how strong it is in Sotha Sil. (Waiting for that nerf when spell crafting comes around, eh?) It's not fun anymore. DC is effectively killing the campaign, I don't even log into the campaign unless I know TM is running. And even then, I'm tired of getting zerged with 10 to 1 odds. Maybe this has been posted before in another part of the Sotha Sil forum, but that doesn't make the headlines like showing this does.

If you didn't already know, a certain DK is intentionally trying to destroy the server so he can have perma-emp status.

Fully aware, though as I was saying to others in comms, it's not to intentionally change the DC. It's to try and recruit other AD or EP who see an opportunity to make good AP and fight fights. DC can keep at it, as @Adenoma said, they are bad when they're alone. It's getting them with even numbers or alone that's the problem. With few good DC players in the exceptions list, of course. And the **** siege they all seem to care to every fight.

NBrookus

He's not going to get perma-emp unless ZOS closes the server, and that seems unlikely with it being the only 30 day no CP.

It's hard to say how the population on Shor will be post-event, but if history is a good model, DC disgruntled over these antics should come to Shor. DC has been underpopulated on the 7 day CP campaign for some time.

Adenoma

@Machete brings up a good point that there ARE good DC players. It's just that the same 10-15 names you see in the morning EST are easy kills on their own and their group is an easy wipe provided that there are even numbers. I've been at keep defenses recently when there were five AD at BM and Miat's showed 24 DC. These are folks that don't want to fight outnumbered and they don't want a challenge. I've ganked (but it's a magwarden and I don't like sneaking so I don't know that it's really a gank) the back end of their line and had emperor + 15+ people turn around when I've already got 2-4 people that I'm fighting.

@Agrippa_Invisus , that's an awesome solution. And my god that'd be easier on the server. It'd also allow them to run more campaigns and spread out population a lot more.

Adenoma

And I should say that my guild group will turn around and Xv1 someone if we're trying to get to some place, but we don't need emperor and 15+ to Xv1. Generally speaking, if it's a 2-4v1 against our groups you're gone - basically the premise of any sort of 1vX scenario that if you have good/adequate opponents and you're outnumbered then you're screwed. I just say this to illustrate that these are people who really just want to kill NPCs.

Machete

In honest hope and retrospect, I would like to see an influx of AD and EP in here. For the campaigns health, it's important. In prime time AD and EP steam roll over DC, dethrone and get all our scrolls back. But when it's time for everyone to go to bed, DC is back at it. The current players and guilds in DC have made it clear they don't want to move. EP is underpopulated, and AD could stand better players (Lets face it, our pugs are free AP too). I personally would like to see this campaign become competitive again.

Scyantific

Machete wrote: »

In honest hope and retrospect, I would like to see an influx of AD and EP in here. For the campaigns health, it's important. In prime time AD and EP steam roll over DC, dethrone and get all our scrolls back. But when it's time for everyone to go to bed, DC is back at it. The current players and guilds in DC have made it clear they don't want to move. EP is underpopulated, and AD could stand better players (Lets face it, our pugs are free AP too). I personally would like to see this campaign become competitive again.

Ain't happenin man, EP and AD are too busy running their emp farming racket on the 7 day CP server for anyone to give a crap about Sotha.

Adenoma

I don't get what the point of getting emp is if you don't fight anyone. I've had a dozen characters emp and all the boring ones were when people just didn't login.

Machete

Because when you get to wake up and feel like a god during prime time it's 'fun'. @Scyantific Yeah man, I know. It's the truth. But better to try and fail then not try at all.

Munavar

Dynamic population may be too 'advanced' to implement. What do they do about the players already logged in?

What if the ring keeps did not count towards crowning emperor if the population for that keep was at 1 bar?

There would be less emp swapping at that point (you would have to get ~150 people {assuming a bar of population is 50} in on the racket). They already have an AP minimum to check against. When the score is evaluated (on the hour(?)) an indicator on the keeps is also set.

Second, the 'O' tick needs to be dialed WAY down or shifted in regards to a percentage of defenders present.

It would be good if the 'D' tick timer was sped up to. You WANT to chase the invaders off but then 1/2 the group stops at the imaginary border and waits a few minutes or more.

Agrippa_Invisus

Munavar wrote: »

Dynamic population may be too 'advanced' to implement. What do they do about the players already logged in?

The higher pop will lock as the lower population logs out and while you can't force people out, you can prevent new ones from entering. This causes attrition to work away at the count of players -- people who log off and crash naturally not being able to return or to be replaced.

The solution to the higher queue timer for this faction? Swap servers or factions.

Minnesinger

Then there are threads like this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/362299/why-does-dc-keep-winning-ava

If you read it through you can spot who plays Sotha on DC and how they are "winning". I don´t want to blame players solely for this it is part of the game to win the campaign and get rewarded. The truth is that most longer term players have lost their interest in pvdooring and the reward is 30k gold. I don´t really understand how any guild can do this crap every day. Let alone led by some player who has been in ESO for some time.

Drummerx04

Okay. I went to Shor for the first half of the event. About halfway through the event, DC basically vanished during the day and EP was pop locked and ran over everything. All scrolls, all keeps.

@Machete, perhaps you should convince them to go to Sotha Sil to provide competition?

NBrookus

Machete wrote: »

In honest hope and retrospect, I would like to see an influx of AD and EP in here. For the campaigns health, it's important. In prime time AD and EP steam roll over DC, dethrone and get all our scrolls back. But when it's time for everyone to go to bed, DC is back at it. The current players and guilds in DC have made it clear they don't want to move. EP is underpopulated, and AD could stand better players (Lets face it, our pugs are free AP too). I personally would like to see this campaign become competitive again.

Been there, done that. It's tedious and boring to start at your gates everyday, watch DC log off as soon as there is resistance so you can pvdoor and roll over a few pugs that didn't get the memo to avoid defending, and know that tomorrow you'll be gate camped again. DC has a long history of doing exactly this in the no CP campaign, and not even the same DC.

AD and EP can't fix the campaign without DC being involved in the solution. There just aren't enough oceanic/off-prime players to balance the map 24/7, and those players are largely going to go to Vivec.

Minnesinger

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay. I went to Shor for the first half of the event. About halfway through the event, DC basically vanished during the day and EP was pop locked and ran over everything. All scrolls, all keeps.

@Machete, perhaps you should convince them to go to Sotha Sil to provide competition?

Do i even need to answer? You pretty much understand what and why it happened? The last I checked the Oceanic populations all but Vivec were low. Still you had some point in your view we need more EP and AD to stop this. Though the issue is that DC can postpone their pvdoor event till there is no resistance. No problem for them. Think this DC guild has 24/7 population of all sort like minded players.

Reverb

It's really a shame that said Dragonknight came back to ESO. Speaking as a DC player, this map is really disturbing.

Reverb

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I am going to be the broken record to this, but the ultimate solution is dynamic population caps. Restrict the highest population to some percentage of the lowest (eg: 110%) and then you are going to see those giant stacks forced to split up to be able to play. This balances the factions amongst each other.

If players all want to stack the same faction, they can wait their turn while others have no queue whatsoever.

Players, over the years, have proven without a doubt that no amount of pleading will influence the player behavior. They'll take the cheap win every time. Sure some small groups will do the right thing, but overall human nature will win out and the path of least resistance will be taken.

Force them to split to be able to play and you'll see new groups form in EP and AD of former DC, or you'll see fewer DC. Either way is a win for game balance. (and these faction names can and will rotate based off which faction it is -- Imagine EP's population tied to the Shor DC pop currently on NA PC).

I've seen you say this before. While I agree in concept, the continual calculations for this would further overtax the servers. I think a compromise might be to have dynamic pop caps evaluated and applied at each scoring update, rather than continually. Maybe combine this measure with increasing the strength of keep walls and guard NPCs for the factions at a pop disadvantage, also evaluated and applied each score update.

Rickter

There is already a thread detailing this entire issue:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356649/sotha-sil-na-pc-thread-2/p1

Please stay hydrated, the salt is real.

With that being said - If you are DC, put your money where your mouth is and come to Shor. Legions of Mordor have already moved and Requiem moved back when Almalexia was still live.

any DC that appreciates a fair and honest campaign - you'd have left Sotha a long time ago.

and to be fair, EP is doing the same thing to DC on Shor. My guild mates logged in yesterday morning to an all red map. DC was pushed to our gate keeps last night by 10:30AM EDT and no doubt to their gates by this morning. I can get an update for you if youd like.

DC was doubled teamed as well as Rayles and Warden and Glade resources were constantly flipped and as a consequence cut off by AD while DC struggled at Aleswell and Ash. DC is constantly forced to fight two fronts. but poor Sotha Sil, right?

CN is retribution, Ive come to learn. You may weep tears on Sotha Sil, but those same individuals plunder another server.

lol - guys i love to RP. im a closet RPer. in all seriousness though, despite the map being colored blue in the mornings, it is QUITE competitive around primetime from what I hear.

at least there isnt any EMPEROR FLIPPING going on on Sotha Sil - its just the same guy getting emperor at 4AM. i respect that more than the AD that crown and emp, then switch over to their EP characters to crown an emp thats going on, in Shor.

Publius_Scipio

Wizard Daniel is a powerful COVENANT commander. However, one must also take into account that all the EP and AD guilds sure love their CP. They didn't like ZOS's no CP PvP efforts with Morrowind.

I Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus personally invite Wizard Daniel of Chuck Norris to check out Vivec or Shor after cycle end. Or I challenge the ghost of Sneaky Pickle, Optimus Nactron/Icy Ice Cubes/ Bird Commander Crow, and whatever elf zerg lords to put CP aside, and to check out Sotha Sil.

Kartalin

Sorry Rickter, we were fighting and wiping LoM all evening yesterday on Sotha. And during the AP event CN got emp for four different members before you know who moved back into first place.

Kartalin

Here's what the map looked like in prime time yesterday. DC started off at 3 bars, eventually locked, and were at 3 bars when this was taken. AD started at 2 bars and made it up to 3 bars, never locking. EP was at 2 bars most of the evening, but they were not our focus.

NBrookus

Rickter wrote: »

at least there isnt any EMPEROR FLIPPING going on on Sotha Sil - its just the same guy getting emperor at 4AM. i respect that more than the AD that crown and emp, then switch over to their EP characters to crown an emp thats going on, in Shor.

No one is switching to alts to flip the map. It's just no one bothers to defend and most of the emps drop campaign. DC isn't defending their emperorship in Sotha Sil either; same problem, different result.