In PvP, who under preforms?

Ashamray

I'm playing solo magicka templar all the time and in pre Morrowind it was just easier to solo. Now I have too many weaknesses which I can't cover. Always lack of something.
magplar isn't a hard class to play (Mblade is harder for me, for example) but it's rly hard to play it solo.

Vapirko

I've been running up agaisnt strong classes of every type. Skewer me for saying this, but I believe the only thing underperforming a bit right now are 2H stam builds without a vma 2H, where the 2H skill line is the main source of damage so not necessarily stamina NBs or temps who have accesss to other class damage skills. Primarily stam DKs and Stam sorcs that use 2h. Recently switched to SB on both and no longer give a *** about coming up agaisnt any class. If I see another stamina 2H build i barely even care. Just block the crit charge, reverb bash rasack tremor scale proc goodbye. Or better yet invasion into their crit charge. So glad I gave up 2H weapons. Completely useless when you can have two five pieces and a proc set. With a DK SB damage build and flappy wings even mag sorcs become a breeze, all but the ones who really know what they're doing anyway and that's as it should be.

Adenoma

You need to define who is piloting each class/build before you say whether or not a class/build is good/bad. If the build is played optimally - or at least similarly - then you can bring a valid comparison. For example, to me I would say that magNB underperformed, but I'm a pretty bad magNB player and it has a high skill ceiling that folks like @NightbladeMechanics make good use of.

Personally, with average players the most underperforming classes are magNB and medium armor builds that aren't stamblades. That said, I have ran across some terrifying magNBs and some very strong medium armor stamplars.

Overall, class balance is great and all classes have top tier builds. I think that I haven't seen too many really solid warden players but there aren't many people running warden right now and certainly folks haven't had enough practice relative to the other four classes.

firegodx

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Speaking about mNB being bad, yet 9/10 emperors are mNB...

@Enslaved Isn't it funny how that works? Yet we will see thread after thread of people begging for Nightblade buffs, and swearing out how "squishy" and weak they are. You will see people making claims of how "skillful" Nightblades as a class are, and how it takes all this dedication to be proficient with them. Meanwhile, a complete beginner can pick-up a NB (mag or stamina), and unleash havoc. And don't let an "Anti-NB Thread" appear. Oh no. They will swarm and derail the thread like nothing you've seen before. It's ridiculous, to be honest.

Because bombers make the most Ap and bombers can kill more people then anyone as emp

leem1988

Vapirko wrote: »

I've been running up agaisnt strong classes of every type. Skewer me for saying this, but I believe the only thing underperforming a bit right now are 2H stam builds without a vma 2H, where the 2H skill line is the main source of damage so not necessarily stamina NBs or temps who have accesss to other class damage skills. Primarily stam DKs and Stam sorcs that use 2h. Recently switched to SB on both and no longer give a *** about coming up agaisnt any class. If I see another stamina 2H build i barely even care. Just block the crit charge, reverb bash rasack tremor scale proc goodbye. Or better yet invasion into their crit charge. So glad I gave up 2H weapons. Completely useless when you can have two five pieces and a proc set. With a DK SB damage build and flappy wings even mag sorcs become a breeze, all but the ones who really know what they're doing anyway and that's as it should be.

Can you post your build, if you don't mind? Thanks.

Mustard

mDK and mNB - They both need some love from ZOS

Ocelot9x

sly007 wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

StamDk. Pvp wise dead.

No mobility
No spammable
No resource managment after the recent nerfs on its passives
No execution skills

I don't exactly know how you are supposed to kill things that shield up through your damage.

MagDk at least coud use the class base skills that are powerfull

Every class has something to excel. StamDk has litterally nothing.

I would suggest to take in consideration how many streamers actually play stamDk. i guess there are 2 just minor streamers.

Kodi litterally left in order to play a magSorc and achieve 25kills0deaths in BG every run.

Lol, sure, no spammable but we have Strong dots not attacked toba weapon skills like. Minor vitality and major mending, as well as 12% healing received. As for sustain, every else got hit with sustain nerf but I think stamina dk a great sustain. Stam dk is not dead.

Perhaps to you, but to me, it as strong as any other class. I have zero issues with mobility since I use bow back bar. Even duel wield has major expedition. Sure stamina dk will not be getting quick kills but spamming a ranged execute but neither is the stamina warden, stamina templar, or stamina sorceror. You should not compare the strengths of a magicka sorc to the weakness of a stamina dk, then come to the conclusion the it is weak.

Bottom line is that my stamina dk performs extremely well in PvP. Dueling, battlegrounds, and cyrodiil.

Spamming a ranged execute? You're not talking about poison injection right? Anyway,I'm ar37 on my Stam dk and I've every other stamina class from15 to 20,soloing 80% of the time,and I can say that at the moment stam dk is the weakest class.
We have no recovery/reduction passives,neither damage ones(3% poison damage is a joke and +6% aoe is even worse).
It's the only class besides stam sorc without damage skills(the only dot worth using will do avg 1500 crit,lot of people switched to rearming for the sweet crit bonus/WD),but stam sorcs have amazing passive and the best ultimate in the game.
Stamplars have jabs/pol,wardens cliff racer and subterranean assault and that means a lot: you can force a kill with those classes without using an ultimate,while on stam dk you can kill the decent players just pressuring till 60% HP and then take flight->executioner,but you can just block the ultimate if you have decent reflexes.
With morrowind they took what made stam dk useful(regen passives,990stam for 4k mag is ridiculous and battle roar isn't enough) without giving us nothing back.
Currently I'm playing a stamwarden and it's a lot easier to solo PvP and in group play the gap is even bigger.
It's so sad because I had almost every achievement/skill point/upgrade on my stam dk but I just can't stand playing him anymore

Kas

Imho all classes have their uses right now.
You mention stamsorcs and mag NBs, yet, both are INCREDIBLE classes in organized groups. Mag NBs are, hands down, THE best group DD by quite a margin.

At the same time, Stamplars and both DKs can be hard to fight 1v1 and are incredible in 2v2 to 4v4 (and stuff like 4vX), yet they can only fill very specific roles (in the vast majority of cases they are fairly useless, tbh) in larger groups and are by no means as crucial as mag DKs or stam sorcs

Xvorg

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

NBs might seem weak, but in the right hands (yes, you really REALLY R E A L L Y need to l2p this class) they're really strong.

yup, that's right

Mustard wrote: »

mDK and mNB - They both need some love from ZOS

You know those are the hardest classes to learn? It takes you more than 1 year to learn how to play them OK

Valencer

sly007 wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

StamDk. Pvp wise dead.

No mobility
No spammable
No resource managment after the recent nerfs on its passives
No execution skills

I don't exactly know how you are supposed to kill things that shield up through your damage.

MagDk at least coud use the class base skills that are powerfull

Every class has something to excel. StamDk has litterally nothing.

I would suggest to take in consideration how many streamers actually play stamDk. i guess there are 2 just minor streamers.

Kodi litterally left in order to play a magSorc and achieve 25kills0deaths in BG every run.

Lol, sure, no spammable but we have Strong dots not attacked toba weapon skills like. Minor vitality and major mending, as well as 12% healing received. As for sustain, every else got hit with sustain nerf but I think stamina dk a great sustain. Stam dk is not dead.

Perhaps to you, but to me, it as strong as any other class. I have zero issues with mobility since I use bow back bar. Even duel wield has major expedition. Sure stamina dk will not be getting quick kills but spamming a ranged execute but neither is the stamina warden, stamina templar, or stamina sorceror. You should not compare the strengths of a magicka sorc to the weakness of a stamina dk, then come to the conclusion the it is weak.

Bottom line is that my stamina dk performs extremely well in PvP. Dueling, battlegrounds, and cyrodiil.

I dont think you're much of a stamina DK at all if these are your conclusions.

Sustain has been gutted (actually went slightly up for magicka DK, in comparison), tankiness (unless youre going full troll tank) has been gutted because of the major mending nerfs and defile buffs. Damage has always been less than ideal, but at least you had decent survivability pre-morrowind.

It's been an undesirable offensive spec in group play since destro ulti became a thing, so nothing new there.

At the moment I'd seriously rate every other stamina spec over DK, and pretty much every magicka spec is far more useful in groups and usually more powerful anyway.

apostate9

Hollery wrote: »

In my opinion, the stam sorc and magicka nightblade under preform. This is merely in your experience, while there are no wrong answers if you say magic sorc then you're a dip. Please provide some reasoning for these as well.

Stam sorc; it has like no class abilties, it's mostly just weapon skills

nightmage; They get messed to easily, and in comparison to stamblade there is little competition

Stamsorc?? Erm...no.

MagDK, Stamplar. Maybe Magblade. TBH, the classes are getting close to something like "balance", we just need a few tweaks to get them over the hump.

CavalryPK

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

NBs might seem weak, but in the right hands (yes, you really REALLY R E A L L Y need to l2p this class) they're really strong.

I approve this message.

Orchish

StamDK is a shell of it's former self. I would say it was nerfed the hardest of any class since Morrowind overall. That said, it can still be very effective in the hands of a good player. Your average Joe will get slaughtered though. One thing that stands out to me is the sheer amount of Sorcs and Stamblades in PvP right now, I mean they have always been popular classes but since Morrowind there is no doubt that they dominate Cyrodiil in terms of numbers right now.

CavalryPK

Enslaved wrote: »

Speaking about mNB being bad, yet 9/10 emperors are mNB...

good point. I wonder if it is due to bombing ... since you get the most AP that way... and being an emperor has nothing to do with how good you are , but everything to do with the amount of AP you have.

SO essentially if you play 24 7 healer that just runs around and spams mutagen .... you will become emp if your faction takes over all the keeps.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

There may be some over performing classes in very specific areas but there are no under performing classes. Only underperforming players that need a little bit more practice and perhaps teaching by an experienced player.

That's it. I've seen and played along side every class and have seen them own other players. People need to stop asking for buffs and be way more careful what they ask for concerning nerfs. Case closed.

barshemm

My first character was a mageblade. I didn't find him great for dps in pve but loved tanking and healing. I took him into pvp around cp300, hated it. Felt super weak, couldn't kill anyone.

Went and rolled a Stam sorc. Had a blast, killed people, ran scrolls. Got another 300cp mainly via pvp.

3 days ago I decided to bring my mageblade back into pvp. Since morrowind I had been running mostly medium sets on my stam sorc and was getting frustrated with how squishy he is as well as struggling trying to make the change to 2h from maiming sword and board. Thought playing another character would be fun.

Mageblade is so much fun! No I don't have the burst to take out a 30k hp guy in full heavy. However I now have the choice who to engage. 5 people beating on me, yea most the time I die but I do last a while and several times I have managed to get out of it alive. 1v1 and even up to 1v3 I feel I hold my own better than my stam sorc and I'm still figuring out my bars.

I would say over all mageblade is in a pretty good place in pvp and while I miss the old siphoning attacks (don't use the new one at all) I found it is still very powerful in pve.

I haven't been successful in bombs yet btw. Running 6 heavy one light and probably switching 5/1/1 soon. I do plan to get some vicious death to try out bombing though because we'll... I am a mageblade lol.

CatchMeTrolling

There's really no underperforming class right now, every class has a place somewhere but if you judge them based on how many roles they can fill then things get skewed.

Even though people say mag nb is under performing they're still wanted in groups over their stam counter part & has been the cheesiest emp farmers for several months.

It's not always about focusing on what a class can't do but rather what they can do in their respective roles, albeit if you take a jack of all trades approach we'll end up with a bunch of misconceptions.

Araviel2

i can't remember the last time i saw someone recommending a "bow build"

Waffennacht

Araviel2 wrote: »

i can't remember the last time i saw someone recommending a "bow build"

I don't think that's ever happened

Master_Kas

Waffennacht wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

i can't remember the last time i saw someone recommending a "bow build"

I don't think that's ever happened

It has when snipe healdebuf stack happened. 0 BOL heals

VirtualElizabeth

xskinzcity wrote: »

Stamplars and non bomber magblade definitely the weakest atm

Is this true about Stamplars? I only recently returned to PVP and I was melting like butter on her the other day.

Tonnopesce

Mag Dk...
While i can kite around 4-6 opponents and slowly kill them, the first nb or sorcerer around will steal 90% of my ap just with an execute...

Comfortably_Buzzed

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Speaking about mNB being bad, yet 9/10 emperors are mNB...

@Enslaved Isn't it funny how that works? Yet we will see thread after thread of people begging for Nightblade buffs, and swearing out how "squishy" and weak they are. You will see people making claims of how "skillful" Nightblades as a class are, and how it takes all this dedication to be proficient with them. Meanwhile, a complete beginner can pick-up a NB (mag or stamina), and unleash havoc. And don't let an "Anti-NB Thread" appear. Oh no. They will swarm and derail the thread like nothing you've seen before. It's ridiculous, to be honest.

Mageblades are squishy and they do have one of the higher skill thresholds, but they also arguably make the best proxy det bombers. While zerg bombing does have a bit of a learning curve once you have it down it's one of the best ways to farm AP. The fact that it's so easy to get AP with mageblades does not make them OP.

leem1988

I always wanted to try zerg bombing on my magblade. Is it hard to do solo? I missed out on the gold vd necklace though.

HiImRex

Depends on what you're talking about

Cp, no cp, duels, small scale, solo, "small scale", "solo", fengrush cam, etc

CatchMeTrolling

leem1988 wrote: »

I always wanted to try zerg bombing on my magblade. Is it hard to do solo? I missed out on the gold vd necklace though.

Not really missing out going from purple to gold jewelry, like a 10 stat difference.

Durham

sly007 wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

StamDk. Pvp wise dead.

No mobility
No spammable
No resource managment after the recent nerfs on its passives
No execution skills

I don't exactly know how you are supposed to kill things that shield up through your damage.

MagDk at least coud use the class base skills that are powerfull

Every class has something to excel. StamDk has litterally nothing.

I would suggest to take in consideration how many streamers actually play stamDk. i guess there are 2 just minor streamers.

Kodi litterally left in order to play a magSorc and achieve 25kills0deaths in BG every run.

Lol, sure, no spammable but we have Strong dots not attacked toba weapon skills like. Minor vitality and major mending, as well as 12% healing received. As for sustain, every else got hit with sustain nerf but I think stamina dk a great sustain. Stam dk is not dead.

Perhaps to you, but to me, it as strong as any other class. I have zero issues with mobility since I use bow back bar. Even duel wield has major expedition. Sure stamina dk will not be getting quick kills but spamming a ranged execute but neither is the stamina warden, stamina templar, or stamina sorceror. You should not compare the strengths of a magicka sorc to the weakness of a stamina dk, then come to the conclusion the it is weak.

Bottom line is that my stamina dk performs extremely well in PvP. Dueling, battlegrounds, and cyrodiil.

-Major mending is for 2.5 secs.. and it's close 4k magicka.. this means vigor does not take advantage fully of this keep in mind vigor is 50% more expensive now...
-minor mending is available more for the DK heal is a no go for stam dk ... to much magicka for 8% healing
- shields are good and provide 12% As long as it's up...passive...

-Bow works but other classes perform better in two hander/ Bow...

Stam DK works yes but it's much weaker... but so is all stam classes... Except stam blades

Most groups run magicka even small groups now ...

Very few stam DKs on the leader board 90% are magicka... By the way ... the top three leader board classes...
1 Night Blades... 1/3 of all players are NB
2 Sorc and Temps are very close... Virtually tied.. about 1/4 each....
3. DK.. 3rd a little more more then
4. Wardens (numbers are increasing) a little less then

HiImRex

Stam dk

On demand major mending that gives you a damage shield and 10 sec minor brutality and returns stam

Major ward/resolve skill that breaks cloak

Venom claw *** wrecks

Leap one of the best and easiest to use ultimate in the game, cheaper than db hits harder aoe stun max range undodgeable point and click that returns a ton of resources so you can flip fights in a heartbeat

Yeah it's probably not the class that's underperforming

leepalmer95

Durham wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

StamDk. Pvp wise dead.

No mobility
No spammable
No resource managment after the recent nerfs on its passives
No execution skills

I don't exactly know how you are supposed to kill things that shield up through your damage.

MagDk at least coud use the class base skills that are powerfull

Every class has something to excel. StamDk has litterally nothing.

I would suggest to take in consideration how many streamers actually play stamDk. i guess there are 2 just minor streamers.

Kodi litterally left in order to play a magSorc and achieve 25kills0deaths in BG every run.

Lol, sure, no spammable but we have Strong dots not attacked toba weapon skills like. Minor vitality and major mending, as well as 12% healing received. As for sustain, every else got hit with sustain nerf but I think stamina dk a great sustain. Stam dk is not dead.

Perhaps to you, but to me, it as strong as any other class. I have zero issues with mobility since I use bow back bar. Even duel wield has major expedition. Sure stamina dk will not be getting quick kills but spamming a ranged execute but neither is the stamina warden, stamina templar, or stamina sorceror. You should not compare the strengths of a magicka sorc to the weakness of a stamina dk, then come to the conclusion the it is weak.

Bottom line is that my stamina dk performs extremely well in PvP. Dueling, battlegrounds, and cyrodiil.

-Major mending is for 2.5 secs.. and it's close 4k magicka.. this means vigor does not take advantage fully of this keep in mind vigor is 50% more expensive now...
-minor mending is available more for the DK heal is a no go for stam dk ... to much magicka for 8% healing
- shields are good and provide 12% As long as it's up...passive...

-Bow works but other classes perform better in two hander/ Bow...

Stam DK works yes but it's much weaker... but so is all stam classes... Except stam blades

Most groups run magicka even small groups now ...

Very few stam DKs on the leader board 90% are magicka... By the way ... the top three leader board classes...
1 Night Blades... 1/3 of all players are NB
2 Sorc and Temps are very close... Virtually tied.. about 1/4 each....
3. DK.. 3rd a little more more then
4. Wardens (numbers are increasing) a little less then

Stam dk's are fine, best stamina ult in the game.

Best healing boosts in the game.

Best sustain after stam sorc's. Ult resources + helping hands.

Its mobility isn't amazing, but its stamina so its mobility isn't bad. Its the same as stamplar and stamdens.

Only stam class to have a viable execute is stam nb and executioner is just better.

Unfadingsilence

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

NBs might seem weak, but in the right hands (yes, you really REALLY R E A L L Y need to l2p this class) they're really strong.

100% agree with this for both magic and Stam NBs for PVE my main is and always will be my magic NB used it in every trial and vma and vdsa
And love it 100% over all others and for pvp I love my Stam NB people complain about NBs and cloak and healing "yet it could be a little better" but don't take the time in understanding there passives and CP set up to make them deadly in PVP