[Solved] Character appearance should NOT give me an unfair disadvantage in PvP

br0steen

Lol you pc players crack me up

GeorgeBlack

Realism in gaming should have checks and balances. This is indeed a problem. On that note, is it more difficult to aim a smaller toon?

code65536

Axoinus wrote: »

Don't go in the water.

Upon further consideration, I'm beginning to think that this is really a conspiracy by the Argonian lobby.

Reverb

I'm not sure what kind of warning you would have wanted. A pop-up at character creation saying "short characters have disadvantages?" Many of us just assume that to be true in games, and it often is.

Betsararie

rofl

Marabornwingrion

This is cute!

josiahva

Why wouldnt height have impact? I generally make tall characters, or tall-ish at least, I have a larger hit box, I have known this forever....I just dont care, it makes sense, I am bigger and have a bigger hit box, just a disadvantage I deal with, much like playing on PC with a controller. I know playing with a controller puts me at a severe disadvantage(camera speed is MUCH slower than a mouse, making turning around very slow...its worst against those stupid stamplars that run around you in circles spamming jabs/sweeps) in PvP, but its the cost of the choice I make.

Danksta

I hear that's an issue in vMA on stage 7 with the cleanse pools.

Asmael

Confirmed, small argonians are now the meta. Easy swim speed everywhere!

NordSwordnBoard

I have to ask though, should all the Lannister's banisters be lowered just for Tyrion?

If your Bosmer can't enjoy the view in housing because they are too short, should all windows be lowered? You can always make a foot stool, and ask your friends to place one for you in their home if they want you to be the lookout.

This is akin to any players getting a survey out of Shadowfen - spontaneous swimming happens along the way. Like Vampires need to be a little afraid of fire, so do the wee people avoid the deep end of the pool.

Even if your hitbox isn't smaller than the tallest high elf, you are still harder to pick from the crowd as a target. It is a bummer about your toon's swimming frequency, but what can you do?

the_man_of_steal

If you're swimming, you cannot be attacked or targeted as long as you stay in the water. Mind your surroundings. Also your short height makes it harder for you to jump... pretty realistic! FAIR

Voxicity

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Your hit box is smaller which is the advantage of a smaller character. Your height is not just an "appearance", it is technically a physical attribute so STOP referring to it as your "characters appearance" because appearance is your face, hair, etc.... Size is a physical attribute not an aesthetic appearance as you claim! You went small to be less noticeable and for a harder target so accept this limitation with the water. Taller characters are easily noticed and easier to hit but can walk in shallow pools too deep for shorter characters.

You want to have your cake and eat it too but it just doesn't work that way. Are they supposed to make you like Jesus and walk on water FFS?!?! Choices make a difference and I am glad they paid attention to this level of detail. Don't like it then make a taller character!

Appearance change token allows you to change your characters height value, therefore I'm pretty sure it's considered appearance You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about

I also chose to make the character smaller more for RP reasons since I've decided to play the game more casually nowadays so I'd prefer it if you didn't throw out assumptions like that. I just wasn't aware of this bug at the time, else I would have made him taller enough to swim walk through puddles. I'll be buying an appearance change anyway because I'd rather be able to swim than be a little ant among giants :P No big deal

Voxicity

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

If you're swimming, you cannot be attacked or targeted as long as you stay in the water.

This is completely false information.

Taself

reiverx wrote: »

I get dismounted in knee deep water.

This is actually how horses work though. Every video you have ever seen of a horse in deeper water is a fake. Every single one.

I know of several places where I can ride a mount through the water with my imperial that will dismount my bosmer, with the same mount. It's annoying.

zaria

Voxicity wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

If you're swimming, you cannot be attacked or targeted as long as you stay in the water.

This is completely false information.

This, has been shot at by guards after jumping into water to escape them.
Guards like crocodiles can not swim so you just need to get out of range.

MNsnowtaTy

Wait how is this a disadvantage? Your character is short of course he should have to swim when the water is too deep to touch the bottom.

That's real life too bro!

Voxicity

MNsnowtaTy wrote: »

Wait how is this a disadvantage? Your character is short of course he should have to swim when the water is too deep to touch the bottom.

That's real life too bro!

Because in PvP this can happen in extremely shallow puddles of water where I cannot use an ability or dodge roll whereas a taller player can.

mb10

Well if the water is deeper than your height... you will begin to swim lol

if the taller guy at the beach is still walking when you cant are you going to ask moan about that too?

Voxicity

mb10 wrote: »

Well if the water is deeper than your height... you will begin to swim lol

if the taller guy at the beach is still walking when you cant are you going to ask moan about that too?

That's exactly the point. There are literal puddles of water that barely reach the characters knees and he begins to swim.

Using analogies from real life is absolutely absurd when we're talking about game mechanics in a video game. Realism isn't a valid argument, especially when it comes to PvP

NordSwordnBoard

The only solutions I can see are raising the minimum height allowable or draining the water in Cyrodiil. Raise a clamor if you wish, but I'm not so sure there are enough numbers behind you to support this being addressed.

I agree it is an unforseen disadvantage with RP and aesthetics being in mind at toon creation but again, what's the solution?

GLP323b14_ESO

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Voxicity

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Yeah it's a bit weird, I'm like 2 pixels shorter than her Well was before I appearance changed just now

Darlgon

Voxicity wrote: »

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Yeah it's a bit weird, I'm like 2 pixels shorter than her Well was before I appearance changed just now

Im trying to figure out why the thread says "Closed" in the header.. Because it sure isnt.

Voxicity

Darlgon wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Yeah it's a bit weird, I'm like 2 pixels shorter than her Well was before I appearance changed just now

Im trying to figure out why the thread says "Closed" in the header.. Because it sure isnt.

Because I came to an agreement with myself and no longer feel it necessary for them to change the mechanic since people in the thread have said it's there on purpose and is not a bug. I'll change it to Solved so it doesn't look like a mod changed it or something

Darlgon

Voxicity wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Yeah it's a bit weird, I'm like 2 pixels shorter than her Well was before I appearance changed just now

Im trying to figure out why the thread says "Closed" in the header.. Because it sure isnt.

Because I came to an agreement with myself and no longer feel it necessary for them to change the mechanic since people in the thread have said it's there on purpose and is not a bug. I'll change it to Solved so it doesn't look like a mod changed it or something

Thanks.. thats what I kept thinking.. that a mod had changed it.

BTW, agreements with yourself, tend to not hold when the other party is still challenging the issue. Personally.. I made my Argonian DK tall, so he could see over things and be seen, but made a short Dunmer NB Lass so she can hide behind things easier.

MirelaUmbrella

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Is it just me or do those two characters in the video appear to be the exact same height. If your swimming bosmer is shorter it must not be by very much.

Actually, my character (his wife you can see there) is also the smallest possible bosmer, which was the funny thing at first. Was wondering if it's a characteristic of the race, that males are tiny bit smaller than ladies.

FearAndPatching

Voxicity wrote: »

Edit: According to most players this was a design choice to have your characters appearance dictate game mechanics, therefore I don't think there's gonna be much change so I decided to buy an appearance change to rectify this mistake. But this thread can be a heads up to people who may think about creating a tiny bosmer and don't want to have an unfair disadvantage in PvP. Cheers

I created a bosmer at almost the smallest height and little did I know this would actually end up biting me in the butt later down the line. While questing in morrowind I noticed that my wife's character could run through pools of shallow water with no problem, however I had to swim through them, directly behind her. We found it pretty funny and joked about it at first, but then a couple of weeks later, when taking our chars into PvP, I experienced something no one should ever experience in this game, which is an unfair advantage due to my characters appearance. I forget exactly where it was but I was fighting in a pool of water and the enemy could run around, dodge, use abilities etc while my dumb bosmer was there swimming around having a pool party. Obviously I couldn't use any abilities while swimming or dodge roll etc, in the exact same pool of water as my enemy. So I got rekt for something that wasn't my fault at all.

Now I'm no min-maxer, currently playing a bosmer magward, but I certainly don't wanna be having to literally avoid fighting in the shallowest pools of water. Is there anything that can be done about this or am I gonna have to fork out some real life money to buy an appearance change?

Video demonstrating this problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMvW_7nhxw

I originally created a Wood Elf Stam Warden due to the passives of wood elf and I made him as short and skinny as possible. My theory was that if he was so short he would be shorter than his bear pet making him difficult to target in pvp. However I found myself literally swimming in puddles in districts in the Imperial City that other classes easily walk thru, below Blue sewer entrance toward the door in Arboretum is especially bad. I also found that you get hung up walking up small curbs or terrain differences that won't effect other races. Long story short my StamWard is now an Imperial so I can run Dubious Comoran Throne drink without having to take points out of stam to put in health for trials.

Wreuntzylla

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Your hit box is smaller which is the advantage of a smaller character. Your height is not just an "appearance", it is technically a physical attribute so STOP referring to it as your "characters appearance" because appearance is your face, hair, etc.... Size is a physical attribute not an aesthetic appearance as you claim! You went small to be less noticeable and for a harder target so accept this limitation with the water. Taller characters are easily noticed and easier to hit but can walk in shallow pools too deep for shorter characters.

You want to have your cake and eat it too but it just doesn't work that way. Are they supposed to make you like Jesus and walk on water FFS?!?! Choices make a difference and I am glad they paid attention to this level of detail. Don't like it then make a taller character!

Support?

In the past, the devs said that player hit boxes are the same regardless of model size, and testing verified this. Now, that was quite some time ago and it may have changed, but I doubt it.

Voxicity

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Your hit box is smaller which is the advantage of a smaller character. Your height is not just an "appearance", it is technically a physical attribute so STOP referring to it as your "characters appearance" because appearance is your face, hair, etc.... Size is a physical attribute not an aesthetic appearance as you claim! You went small to be less noticeable and for a harder target so accept this limitation with the water. Taller characters are easily noticed and easier to hit but can walk in shallow pools too deep for shorter characters.

You want to have your cake and eat it too but it just doesn't work that way. Are they supposed to make you like Jesus and walk on water FFS?!?! Choices make a difference and I am glad they paid attention to this level of detail. Don't like it then make a taller character!

Support?

In the past, the devs said that player hit boxes are the same regardless of model size, and testing verified this. Now, that was quite some time ago and it may have changed, but I doubt it.

Agreed but there's no point arguing with people like that who just throw false statements around as a basis for their argument :P

Dyride

Bombashaman wrote: »

"Character appearance should NOT give me an unfair disadvantage in PvP"

Why not? You chose it. He is small. Ponds are deep. He can't run underwater.

Then again, he is small, harder to detect. Does it not even out?

And yes one of my toons is the smallest female Bosmer you could make.

Male Bosmer are shorter than females. Your hit box is not any smaller, though it is easier to visually line of sight and hide behind items like creates.