Zenimax Gets Nerevarine Wrong

asuitandtyb14_ESO · June 2017

Rosveen wrote: »

I think it should be consistent too, but it isn't and we won't get Zenimax to record all this VA again, so we have to make do with what we have. That means finding an explanation for the pronunciation change.

That's probably the soundest post I've read. But at the very least I hope we can at least inspire others to set some standards, raise their voices a little, and maybe someday get zenimax's attention enough to start trying a little bit harder.

AzraelKrieg · June 2017

it_s_leviosa_not_leviosa_harry_potter_clothing_geek_tshirt_t-shirt_funny_humor_girls_men_ladies_kids_unisex_tee_shirt_present_gift_7bdc5b38.jpg

That's what this topic is.

asuitandtyb14_ESO · June 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

That's what this topic is.

I don't do the harry potter stuff but if my wife saw that she'd probably agree.

Cryptical · June 2017

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

700 years between the two games.
Languages evolve.

That's like saying languages evolve from the way your grandparents learned it to the way you learned it.

That's like saying it would be normal for your grandparents to have learned the word muh-sigh-uh and you learned it as mess-ee-ahh.

supaskrub · June 2017

One of my guild mates pronounces "Epaulets" as "Eperleps" another pronounces "Cuirass" as "Curryias"... now that is annoying!

Enodoc · June 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

asuitandtyb14_ESO · June 2017

supaskrub wrote: »

One of my guild mates pronounces "Epaulets" as "Eperleps" another pronounces "Cuirass" as "Curryias"... now that is annoying!

I think you need to find a new guild...

Emmagoldman · June 2017

I do not care at all but I found your comment of 700 years humorous.

I live on the south side of chicago. We say lORd while in bronzeville (2 mins away) they say lawd. People say moslim 1 hour south, muslim (muhslim) in my neighborhood, and muslim (muhslam) in devon 30 mins north (pakistani community).

For me its interesting, because I teach history and my masters is in teaching english. Whenever I see these posts, and the lore police come out, I find it humorous that people think in absolutes while in real life we say things differently all the time. Soda, pop, sneakers, tennis shoes, front room, french room, and we ignore word or mouth or neglect the reality that odds are, a majority of tameriel would be illeterate and records across races would be highly subjective.

700 years doesnt make a difference? Take the1920s, a bimbo was a macho dude. We now use it for an uninteeligent female. Ever hear English 700 years ago? 1300's? Hmm, shakespiere died in 1600 so french and latin influence only 100 years as a part of the culture (think of all the prefixes and suffixes in english that are latin in orgin, re, pre, un ect)

All im saying is that from an academic viewpoint 700 years can be undistinguishable, let alone 50 miles which can be massively different.

Skcarkden · June 2017

Rosveen wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

As if the voice actors in the first game were infallible and the modern ones are messing it up. I don't think there's a strict pronunciation for any of these things, more like guidelines. I mean did you hear how Azura said "Dwemer"?

Infallible? No...? Maybe, I don't know really, not relevant. The "modern ones messing it up"? Yes, but I don't blame them. Ultimately it's the producers at zenimax who should be on this stuff. " I don't think there's a strict pronunciation for any of these things, more like guidelines", well I completely disagree with that, I think being called what you're supposed to be called is kind of important, but hey if that means I can you Captain Billy Bob than sweet.

I'm just suggesting that the "original" pronunciations are not even necessarily how it was intended to be pronounced. Like "n'wah" sounds way better in the modern pronunciation by all the voice actors than "enwah" like how it used to be pronounced (you know, by all two voice actors for Dunmer in TES3). It doesn't even make sense linguistically to pronounce it the old way.

I'm going to reference the movie titled 'Moana'. Seems majority of people outside of that ethnicity see the title and pronounce it like moan-ah. While the true, correct version is Mo-ah-nah. I'm sure people would argue linguistically moan-ah would sound more natural, at least when they apply their own.
common language rules to it than what it really is.

You say it doesn't make sense, based on YOUR language, when it's a word made up and used by a fictional race in a game while there are real world examples of people getting words wrong.

Coming from another non-Polynesian country (Poland), it never occured to me to pronouce it like the English word "moan". The 3-syllable version is in line with my own language's rules and was the most natural to me.

The "natural" way is different for everyone.

Well, to be fair i was referring to the person whom i was quoting with their language.

If you're from the location or share something chances are the connection might apply to words. For people outside of that though they tend to apply their own rules and firmly believe theirs to be valid one.

Also, just as a general comment now, to the people arguing language changes over time... Sure, even if that point were to be conceded and we accept that the modern world's more rapid change of language because Dark Elves also have a need for text speak in a universe where it doesn't exist and thus texting would be more costly, so they too would create words like Yolo etc.

It still doesn't explain why even beings who are across all the series unless there's some plot twist that Azura was killed and then the killer disguised themselves as her and now we have a secret society of imposters who devote their whole lives learning how to act like Azura to replace that last Azura when she dies or becomes too ill and all the other Daedric Princes can't work out why they can't sense Azura and think she's somehow found a way to hide.

Wow... ZoS are so clever creating a huge mystery over intentionally getting things wrong. It takes a master level genius to orchestrate such a subtle twist.. JK. They couldn't afford to hire someone like that.

Waffennacht · June 2017

LMar wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Fix Battlegrounds first.

Not sure if the lore master can issue pronunciation leaflets to the combat team.

"Feex thee ba-ttel-grah-oo-nts"

Cracked me the heck up!

Nelson_Rebel · June 2017

This thread is so dumb

Played the original

Things (in our world) change day to day. They probably decided THIS is how they want to pronounce it.

Don't like it? Oh well. It's not even a quality issue or a authenticity issue

This is purely just a YOU don't personally like the pronunciation issue. [snip]

Bouldercleave · June 2017

I have to say that stuff like this doesn't bother me all that much. But then again, I'm not a lore ***. In fact, I don't study the lore at all so I can just enjoy the ride.

If people studied our own World History HALF as much as they study fantasy history, the world would be in a much better place...

Legoless · June 2017

They pronounce Balmora wrong as well. It's balMORa, not balmorAH.

Yakidafi · June 2017

"Terrible just terrible " really hate the pronunciation! I was Wow what did you say, come again, oh you do really, what language is that, first time I heard it

grizzledcroc · June 2017

idk I mean

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

This thread is so dumb

Played the original

Things (in our world) change day to day. They probably decided THIS is how they want to pronounce it.

Don't like it? Oh well. It's not even a quality issue or a authenticity issue

This is purely just a YOU don't personally like the pronunciation issue. [snip]

Im 100% sure it came down to dis.

Kharnis · June 2017

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

Can't speak to how Nerevarine should be pronounced, though. Personally, I think the original pronunciation is the better one.

Bugger. I think I was only two more usages of a variation of "pronounce" in a single post away from a record.

Rosveen · June 2017

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

Can't speak to how Nerevarine should be pronounced, though. Personally, I think the original pronunciation is the better one.

Bugger. I think I was only two more usages of a variation of "pronounce" in a single post away from a record.

N'wah is clearly a Dunmeri term, not an English word. What kind of a rubbish explanation is this?

They can pronounce their own fictional languages however they want, but not when an established official version already exists. Consistency is important when you're creating a long series, things like this shouldn't be changed without a very good reason - even if they think the new version is linguistically more sound.

Bouldercleave · June 2017

Rosveen wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

Can't speak to how Nerevarine should be pronounced, though. Personally, I think the original pronunciation is the better one.

Bugger. I think I was only two more usages of a variation of "pronounce" in a single post away from a record.

N'wah is clearly a Dunmeri term, not an English word. What kind of a rubbish explanation is this?

They can pronounce their own fictional languages however they want, but not when an established official version already exists. Consistency is important when you're creating a long series, things like this shouldn't be changed without a very good reason - even if they think the new version is linguistically more sound.

There is no such thing as a "Dunmeri term" Because THEY ARE NOT REAL.

You can take any liberties that you want with a made up language in a made up fantasy world with made up races and made up histories.

Good Lord people - This stuff is why people laugh at us nerds....

Kharnis · June 2017

Rosveen wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

Can't speak to how Nerevarine should be pronounced, though. Personally, I think the original pronunciation is the better one.

Bugger. I think I was only two more usages of a variation of "pronounce" in a single post away from a record.

N'wah is clearly a Dunmeri term, not an English word. What kind of a rubbish explanation is this?

They can pronounce their own fictional languages however they want, but not when an established official version already exists.

Did you miss the part where I said, "the game text is written in English?" That not only means that the text is written with English words, it also uses English letters. Which means that it is also subject to English language rules for writing and pronunciation, which has words that are spelt with letters that are not from the Latin alphabet spelt in a way that would let the reader pronounce them properly. Thus, "nwah," not "enwah."

Lose the attitude, mate. It wasn't warranted.

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

700 years between the two games.
Languages evolve.

Not so much when the people involved live for hundreds even thousands of years - stop with your short lifed human racism!

My native language has changed a lot more than these excamples in a hundred years, both written and spoken. So that's a few generations of humans, easily could have bigger changes for 3-5 generations of elves.

Dunmer do not live thousands of years, 300 year old is very old dunmer.

This is like their Jesus.

Who?

Oh! You mean Yeshua.

VycDarkshadow · June 2017

For those of you saying accents and pronunciations can't change within 700 years, I present this counter-example, which I am experiencing firsthand in my own hometown area. It's called the A-O Vowel Shift.

About 50 years ago, we would drive down Highway 44 (farty-far) to go buy a sundae (sunduh).

Nowadays, we drive down Highway 44 (foorty-foor) to go buy a sundae (sunday).

If this much of a change can happen in merely 50 years, imagine what could've happened in 700?

TL:DR, I am actively living the contradiction to your "Language can't change over 700 years" argument.

LMar · June 2017

https://youtu.be/47HgrBeg1t8

Skcarkden · June 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

This thread is so dumb

Played the original

Things (in our world) change day to day. They probably decided THIS is how they want to pronounce it.

Don't like it? Oh well. It's not even a quality issue or a authenticity issue

This is purely just a YOU don't personally like the pronunciation issue. [snip]

real world and game are 2 diff things, if ESO adds cars are you going to defend that too because the real world invented an entirely new type of vehicle so the old ones come to games? (please note, i intentionally use dumb examples to match the level of the post i am responding to. want a smarter example? make a smarter comment.

Zos didn't *decide* anything, they remained completely oblivious, don't dare accuse of them of being thorough, we're lucky they even got Azura's gender correct, but i'm sure you'd also argue "things change in the real world all the time" for that if it happened too, wouldn't you?

Graydon · June 2017

Dude! Switch to decaf.

Thanks.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2017

MarrazzMist wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

700 years between the two games.
Languages evolve.

Not so much when the people involved live for hundreds even thousands of years - stop with your short lifed human racism!

My native language has changed a lot more than these excamples in a hundred years, both written and spoken. So that's a few generations of humans, easily could have bigger changes for 3-5 generations of elves.

Dunmer do not live thousands of years, 300 year old is very old dunmer.

Some Dunmer live thousands of years. They're called Divayth Fyr & the Tribunal and quite possibly any vampires, Psijics on Artaeum, Mages Guild members and a smattering of Telvanni mage lords.

Tonnopesce · June 2017

Hum.... Yes? I suppose?

Enodoc · June 2017

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

So what does the apostrophe accomplish?

Aliyavana · June 2017

Kharnis wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

Can't speak to how Nerevarine should be pronounced, though. Personally, I think the original pronunciation is the better one.

Bugger. I think I was only two more usages of a variation of "pronounce" in a single post away from a record.

N'wah is clearly a Dunmeri term, not an English word. What kind of a rubbish explanation is this?

They can pronounce their own fictional languages however they want, but not when an established official version already exists.

Did you miss the part where I said, "the game text is written in English?" That not only means that the text is written with English words, it also uses English letters. Which means that it is also subject to English language rules for writing and pronunciation, which has words that are spelt with letters that are not from the Latin alphabet spelt in a way that would let the reader pronounce them properly. Thus, "nwah," not "enwah."

Lose the attitude, mate. It wasn't warranted.

Enn'wah>nah'wah

ofSunhold · June 2017

Enodoc wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

So what does the apostrophe accomplish?

Is it a contraction?

I've always assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that s'wit is a contraction of shitwit.

Skcarkden · June 2017

ofSunhold wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Enodoc do you have any insight about this?

Not really, other than that I agree. When I first heard "Narie-vairine" I was thinking, what the hell? 'Languages change' is a reasonable argument, except when you consider that Nerevarine is literally named after Nerevar. That's Nerevar, not Nerevair.

N'wah is rather irritating too. If it was supposed to be nwah, it would be spelt nwah, not n'wah.

But Rosveen is right, they're not going to re-record the dialogue. At least not until they get the VAs in for the next DLC.

As per Lawrence Schick, it's pronounced "nwah," similar to (horribly mis-)pronouncing "noir" in French. If it was supposed to be pronounced "enwah," it would have been spelt "enwah," since the game text is written in English.

So what does the apostrophe accomplish?

Is it a contraction?

I've always assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that s'wit is a contraction of shitwit.

I figured it's a separator. I could see how Nwah would be pronounced the way they say it in ESO, but not N'wah. Like when you spell a word to try and show how to say it and you say the letter 'N' and then 'wah' N'wah.