Hidden "Special" Crown Crate Mounts

starkerealm

Abeille wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I see all these complaints and yet... often these are same people are ones buying the crates, thus invalidating their complaint and encouraging more crates to be introduced.... The crates will always be a terrible deal as it is gambling - all one can do is vote with their wallet. If you are against them, then you shouldn't even be concerned about them because you're not buying them, right?

This is false. Most of the people who are complaining from the beginning about it didn't buy the crates.

For the record, I'm the official hypocrite here. I think the only one, actually.

Much as I'd like to lay claim to being, "most people," I am, still, just one weirdo on the west coast, and not some vast majority of the population.

Demycilian

I wonder when they will announce f2p. The writing is on the wall.

People then get to purchase some dust of merethic mojo off the CS with a chance of rerolling traits on MA weapons.

starkerealm

Demycilian wrote: »

I wonder when they will announce f2p. The writing is on the wall.

People then get to purchase some dust of merethic mojo off the CS with a chance of rerolling traits on MA weapons.

*Vomits.*

JimT722

Demycilian wrote: »

I wonder when they will announce f2p. The writing is on the wall.

People then get to purchase some dust of merethic mojo off the CS with a chance of rerolling traits on MA weapons.

This game already feels like a free to play, it's nearly the same as SWTOR. The base game will likely become free eventually and more micro transactions will be added over time. I suspect transmogrification will be the next one.

I still play this game but have spent far less time playing this lately. I have been playing other games far more. I think they aren't spending their time on the performance and balance in their game. It is fluff and monetizing the game that seems most important. If they ever release a new and high quality elder scrolls or fallout game I'm gone.

Phinix1

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Every time you think they can't get sleazier they raise that sleazy bar...

I think it's a contest at ZOS marketing at this point.

JimT722 wrote: »

This game already feels like a free to play, it's nearly the same as SWTOR. The base game will likely become free eventually and more micro transactions will be added over time.

It is at that point that myself and several other prominent content creators will cease creating/maintaining content for the game.

Electrone_Magnus

Think about it this way- the more we spend on crown store cosmetics rather than actual content like dlc the higher the likelihood of seeing more limited time offers and more crate exclusive stuff. ZOS is a company which will do the thing which makes them the most money. When they see people endorsing crates by easily spending 10k crowns on(I myself bought 45 crates to just get enough gems to buy an apex) wouldn't they think to themselves that when we can make a whole lot more of cash by making a few reskinned mounts why should we make quality content like orsinium for only 3000 crowns? If they really used all that money we spent on the crown store for fixing the game, then we would have a working dungeon finder/battlegrounds queue, less buggy quests and a lot more improvements.

Then where is the money going? To fund the development of even more crown crates .Instead if people quit the game because of lack of content or at least cancel their sub, then they would make more high quality content and fix the game.

JimT722

Electrone_Magnus wrote: »

Think about it this way- the more we spend on crown store cosmetics rather than actual content like dlc the higher the likelihood of seeing more limited time offers and more crate exclusive stuff. ZOS is a company which will do the thing which makes them the most money. When they see people endorsing crates by easily spending 10k crowns on(I myself bought 45 crates to just get enough gems to buy an apex) wouldn't they think to themselves that when we can make a whole lot more of cash by making a few reskinned mounts why should we make quality content like orsinium for only 3000 crowns? If they really used all that money we spent on the crown store for fixing the game, then we would have a working dungeon finder/battlegrounds queue, less buggy quests and a lot more improvements.

Then where is the money going? To fund the development of even more crown crates .Instead if people quit the game because of lack of content or at least cancel their sub, then they would make more high quality content and fix the game.

This is the truth. I have seen other games remove things they implemented, but only after it hurt revenue. The problem is this system works. It has for a long time now. It isn't implemented to keep the servers running or fund further content either despite what people think. The amount of revenue this business model generates is incredible and rarely translates into increased game quality. Some of the best content this game has produced came out before rng boxes. I enjoyed Wrothgar more then I enjoyed Morrowind.

MilwaukeeScott

In addition to the Apex rewards listed above, you may also reveal one of these very rare mounts, which are currently only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate:

DaveMoeDee

I'm happy with the crates because I never look at them.

grim_tactics wrote: »

My complaint are the micro-transactions inside of micro-transactions.

Bad enough that crates cost so much but now if you want one of the other limited things you need Crown gems.

Are we on a freemium mobile app with this game now?

Meh. It's all cosmetics. It isn't like there are special gems you can get that cause you to not run out of resources.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

Much as I'd like to lay claim to being, "most people," I am, still, just one weirdo on the west coast, and not some vast majority of the population.

I have always wondered about that.

JimT722 wrote: »

This game already feels like a free to play, it's nearly the same as SWTOR. The base game will likely become free eventually and more micro transactions will be added over time. I suspect transmogrification will be the next one.

There is no doubt that any transmogrification implementation will find the Crown Store at the the front and center, with lengthy grinds, hoops, and RNG for anyone who dares to attempt to bypass it. Like the research vouchers and the mythic ambrosia, and I don't think that the latter actually exists in the game.

Electrone_Magnus wrote: »

Think about it this way- the more we spend on crown store cosmetics rather than actual content like dlc the higher the likelihood of seeing more limited time offers and more crate exclusive stuff. ZOS is a company which will do the thing which makes them the most money. When they see people endorsing crates by easily spending 10k crowns on(I myself bought 45 crates to just get enough gems to buy an apex) wouldn't they think to themselves that when we can make a whole lot more of cash by making a few reskinned mounts why should we make quality content like orsinium for only 3000 crowns? If they really used all that money we spent on the crown store for fixing the game, then we would have a working dungeon finder/battlegrounds queue, less buggy quests and a lot more improvements.

Then where is the money going? To fund the development of even more crown crates

This is why I purchased Morrowind so quickly, and why I will never purchase Crown Crates.

If Crown Crates become the main revenue generator coming from ESO, all ZOS needs to do is make sure that the ESO lights are on. This essentially puts what could develop into a really good long term game, into the role of just existing enough to get people to buy Crowns and Crates. All for the reason that the Crown Store generates more revenue than the game. If ZOS can just keep people interested in the game, the Crown Store will do all the work.

Even if the value of the Morrowind Chapter is lean, the fact that it represents the purchase of additional in-game content makes it far more valuable than a box of Crown Crates, to me. Content deserves reward where Crown Crates do not.

Moglijuana

grim_tactics wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I think ppl should be more upset at the state of Morrowind vs new Crown Crates. Like seriously, Morrowind is probably the biggest ripoff I've ever spent my money on in any video game. I guess that explains the Crown Crate move though...gota make up for their losses somewhere.

What losses?

They introduced a DLC that brought more people to the game than any other expansion/DLC they've ever done and did so at a higher price than should be, and with a main quest that can be completed in 1 night.

They're just rolling in cash while the game as a whole regresses.

They threw the name Morrowind on the box just to bring in the nastalgia players.

This expansion is a slap in the face to what Morrowind was.

Losses Post Morrowind. My friends list is usually filled with ppl playing ESO (40+). Ever since the abysmal release of Morrowind I see less ppl playing ESO (5+) and more ppl playing other games. I highly doubt that is coincedental. I have definitely been logging on way less as well. I don't think everyone is enjoying having to wait in stupid a** ques whether it be BG's or the ONE CP campaign available to only have a high chance of blue screening and starting all over.

Ozstryker

JKorr wrote: »

Yes, the wording implies the "special" mounts aren't normal clown crate items.

In addition to the Apex rewards listed above, you may also reveal one of these very rare mounts, which are currently only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate:


Adamat Dwarven Horse, Ebon Dwarven Senche & Vitrine Dwarven Wolf

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/21/introducing-the-dwarven-crown-crate-season

Considering the rng for normal clown crates, the "very rare" will probably be even more astronomical rng odds to get.

The key phrase... "CURRENTLY only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate"

Take that how you like, though it suggests to me the availability may change in the future...

Abeille

Ozstryker wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Yes, the wording implies the "special" mounts aren't normal clown crate items.

In addition to the Apex rewards listed above, you may also reveal one of these very rare mounts, which are currently only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate:


Adamat Dwarven Horse, Ebon Dwarven Senche & Vitrine Dwarven Wolf

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/21/introducing-the-dwarven-crown-crate-season

Considering the rng for normal clown crates, the "very rare" will probably be even more astronomical rng odds to get.

The key phrase... "CURRENTLY only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate"

Take that how you like, though it suggests to me the availability may change in the future...

It leaves the door open for them to return later, much like they do with the limited time stuff available through direct purchase.

LiquidPony

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Someone needs to tell upper management--or whoever is making these decisions--that player goodwill is KEY to keeping people playing and paying, and cash grabs this absurd are going to test even the most loyal and forgiving of players.

You should see the board of Zenimax Media - you might get a better idea of who you are dealing with then. These people are ruthless businessmen with reputations for it.

https://www.zenimax.com/about

Look through the list. A couple of names might stick out a bit. The statement made a while ago by a certain person from ZOS - "You don't have to be here" really counts here. This game has so much money behind it that it can afford to lose anyone who disagrees with them.

Which of these people have a "reputation" as "ruthless businessmen?"

Cal Ripken Jr.? Jerry Bruckheimer? Leslie Moonves? I mean, it's mostly just entertainment industry lawyers and executives. Is it just because Robert Trump is on the list?

LiquidPony

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

MissBizz

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Not at all, but you're a lucky one.

SantieClaws

Khajiit thinks they should probably at least try and explain their motivations for having crate items that cannot be bought with gems - and possibly even do the right thing and change this.

Otherwise they should probably expect the chat on ESO Live to be quite spicy tonight yes.

If people feel they are not being heard by the usual means then they will take any chance they get for what seems like more direct communication.

This one has made no secret of her intense dislike of the crates no. This now does seem to be an unexpected change in the gem system which was a compromise in response to the great initial dislike of the whole business.

Like handing over a nice piece of fish that is frozen and inedible - the fish it thaws and you anticipate maybe a good meal. Then someone takes away the fish and burns it.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Abeille

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

Idylliqe

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Abeille

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

Idylliqe

Abeille wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

Yes. and honestly, I have not forgotten the BS that's happened over the years, but I forgive because I get so much enjoyment out the games as a whole. If I didn't I wouldn't be on here complaining lol The vicious circle we find ourselves in.

Cage_Lizardman

Chalinal wrote: »

ZO$ keeps coming up with new and improved ways to take advantage of those with gambling issues and/or who are mount collectors.

I love that they are doing this and I support it. I wish they would do more of this and less of things that actually matter to play the game, like making subscribers pay for Morrowind.

More sleazy overpriced "apex" useless crap, please.

JKorr

Abeille wrote: »

Ozstryker wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Yes, the wording implies the "special" mounts aren't normal clown crate items.

In addition to the Apex rewards listed above, you may also reveal one of these very rare mounts, which are currently only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate:


Adamat Dwarven Horse, Ebon Dwarven Senche & Vitrine Dwarven Wolf

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/21/introducing-the-dwarven-crown-crate-season

Considering the rng for normal clown crates, the "very rare" will probably be even more astronomical rng odds to get.

The key phrase... "CURRENTLY only obtainable as a reward from a Dwarven Crown Crate"

Take that how you like, though it suggests to me the availability may change in the future...

It leaves the door open for them to return later, much like they do with the limited time stuff available through direct purchase.

You mean like the snow leopard senche that was limited time, and they brought it back as a clown crate only exclusive? They did bring it back. But it wasn't for direct purchase.

Before the clown crates were even speculated about on the forums, they said that limited time items might return to the store eventually. I wasn't the only person who missed a limited time item and hoped it would return eventually. They simply neglected to mention you wouldn't be able to buy them outright again. Pray to rngesus, or accumulate enough items you don't want to use gems to "buy" it.

What about the black mane lion? That was in the "atronach themed" crates that have gone. Haven't seen that one show up in the crown store, but I bet it will turn up in the lower tier of clown crate prizes....

And, yes, I know to watch the phrasing. After all, there is a statement you can find on reddit, where Gina says they have no plans to have locked rng boxes in the game..... Technically true. The clown crates aren't locked.

LiquidPony

Abeille wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

I just fundamentally disagree with all of this, I guess.

It's hard to beat the bang for the buck we get out of video games.

I have 3000+ hours in ESO. I've spent maybe $600-700 on the game (PC, XB1, subscription, crowns) over several years.

So maybe some might consider me an "enabler" for having that attitude but it is what it is. I don't mind Crown Crates, I don't mind the Crown Store, I don't mind that there are now items that are only available from RNG purchases. I don't begrudge the ZOS folks for trying to make a good living off of this game. The only line in the sand I draw is P2W (in the way that I define it, being things that give you an actual competitive advantage in the game), and we haven't come near that yet IMO.

Contrary to the quote above, I actually think that gamers often have a pretty entitled attitude and get more than fair value for their money. Back in the 90s, we paid $50-60 for games that a handful of guys built in a few months (IIRC, mega-titles like Super Mario Bros. and Sonic the Hedgehog were developed in under a year by teams of 5-8 developers/artists/designers). Today we pay $50-$60 for games that teams of dozens or hundreds of people spend years and tens of millions of dollars creating and then spend years and millions more dollars maintaining infrastructure so that we can play online.

I get the impression that there's a lot of romanticism for the "good old days" of gaming, but I think it's nonsense.

rotaugen454

LiquidPony wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

I get the impression that there's a lot of romanticism for the "good old days" of gaming, but I think it's nonsense.

PONG was great, but video games have been going downhill since...

BlackSparrow

LiquidPony wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

I just fundamentally disagree with all of this, I guess.

It's hard to beat the bang for the buck we get out of video games.

I have 3000+ hours in ESO. I've spent maybe $600-700 on the game (PC, XB1, subscription, crowns) over several years.

So maybe some might consider me an "enabler" for having that attitude but it is what it is. I don't mind Crown Crates, I don't mind the Crown Store, I don't mind that there are now items that are only available from RNG purchases. I don't begrudge the ZOS folks for trying to make a good living off of this game. The only line in the sand I draw is P2W (in the way that I define it, being things that give you an actual competitive advantage in the game), and we haven't come near that yet IMO.

Contrary to the quote above, I actually think that gamers often have a pretty entitled attitude and get more than fair value for their money. Back in the 90s, we paid $50-60 for games that a handful of guys built in a few months (IIRC, mega-titles like Super Mario Bros. and Sonic the Hedgehog were developed in under a year by teams of 5-8 developers/artists/designers). Today we pay $50-$60 for games that teams of dozens or hundreds of people spend years and tens of millions of dollars creating and then spend years and millions more dollars maintaining infrastructure so that we can play online.

I get the impression that there's a lot of romanticism for the "good old days" of gaming, but I think it's nonsense.

I agree with you about paying an equivalent price for the entertainment we get. That's why I don't mind paying for sub, Morrowind, or any of the other ridiculous little cosmetic items I've gotten over the years (including Tel Galen). I'll pay for my entertainment, because I can afford it, and it keeps the game running. I will never apologize for paying for content, because I've weighed the cost of the content against the enjoyment I expect to get out of it as part of the purchase process. And given that I know what I like in a game like this, I am rarely disappointed with what I do buy. Even Crown Crates, I understood, though I was leery because I've seen other games go to Oblivion in a handbasket after gamble boxes were introduced.

But I draw the line at gamble box items that do not let you directly purchase them in some manner. Those, you don't know the cost, and that is a dangerous prospect to anyone who isn't good at managing their money. They can set out to try for an apex mount, and before they know it they've bought $300 worth of crates one Crown pack at a time. I don't even consider getting these items an option, because I cannot weigh the entertainment vs cost ratio against something that has no fixed cost.

That's my breaking point, and I suppose it's my fault that I did not expect ZOS to cross a line I'd set in my mind as the limit between acceptable business practices and predatory sales techniques. Apparently, when it comes to paying for gaming content, the line between what's acceptable and what's predatory is more subjective than most of us realize.

O_LYKOS

So now they're adding these "hidden" mounts which are actually in plain sight in the preview menu, everybody is losing their mind?

We're now getting more mounts to potentially obtain from crates yet people still find a way to complain about it. We get it, somebody are against them, but some people love them. If people don't want to spend money on these items then fine. But who are we to complain and try take away something that others enjoy spending their money on.

At the end of the day, it's a choice. Nobody is forced to buy them.

Chalinal

O_LYKOS wrote: »

So now they're adding these "hidden" mounts which are actually in plain sight in the preview menu, everybody is losing their mind?

We're now getting more mounts to potentially obtain from crates yet people still find a way to complain about it. We get it, somebody are against them, but some people love them. If people don't want to spend money on these items then fine. But who are we to complain and try take away something that others enjoy spending their money on.

At the end of the day, it's a choice. Nobody is forced to buy them.

You missed this part:

Chalinal wrote: »

I would like "Hidden" to be defined as hidden from the crown gem purchase options, not hidden as in invisible.

We know they are in plain sight.

Idylliqe

LiquidPony wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I bought a 1 Wild Hunt crate last week and a 4-pack of Dwarven Crates yesterday.

I got a Wild Hunt Horse and a Dwarven Bear mount. Makes up for my awful RNG in-game I guess (not really).

Am I a bad person?

Do not take the complaints regarding the system as a personal attack against the fans who enable its existence; we have all been there in our lives, thinking all is fine and letting the companies push the line a little further as time went by. We are the boiling frogs.

I say "we" because I am aware that I also did support sleazy practices even if I don't buy crates. When I bought a DLC with a different name just because I wanted an ice mage so badly, I also enabled a sleazy practice.

We have all been enablers or this wouldn't be happening to us. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

Exactly. And not just in ESO. The gaming community as a whole has always been extremely forgiven and forgetful. That's how we got here, for better and for worse.

I just fundamentally disagree with all of this, I guess.

It's hard to beat the bang for the buck we get out of video games.

I have 3000+ hours in ESO. I've spent maybe $600-700 on the game (PC, XB1, subscription, crowns) over several years.

So maybe some might consider me an "enabler" for having that attitude but it is what it is. I don't mind Crown Crates, I don't mind the Crown Store, I don't mind that there are now items that are only available from RNG purchases. I don't begrudge the ZOS folks for trying to make a good living off of this game. The only line in the sand I draw is P2W (in the way that I define it, being things that give you an actual competitive advantage in the game), and we haven't come near that yet IMO.

Contrary to the quote above, I actually think that gamers often have a pretty entitled attitude and get more than fair value for their money. Back in the 90s, we paid $50-60 for games that a handful of guys built in a few months (IIRC, mega-titles like Super Mario Bros. and Sonic the Hedgehog were developed in under a year by teams of 5-8 developers/artists/designers). Today we pay $50-$60 for games that teams of dozens or hundreds of people spend years and tens of millions of dollars creating and then spend years and millions more dollars maintaining infrastructure so that we can play online.

I get the impression that there's a lot of romanticism for the "good old days" of gaming, but I think it's nonsense.

Honestly, you're so right. I didn't think about it like this but we really do get so many hours out of this game and more... lol.. thanks for this.

BlazingDynamo

They're pretty cool. Cheers to those lucky enough to get one. And for those that spends hundreds and hundreds and don't, make another forum post about how much Zos is a greedy company why don't you?