More content for tanks?

qsnoopyjr

Should ESO create more content geared towards tanks?

Other MMORPG's I played, especially raid content, you would have multiple tanks. Sometimes you had to balance 4 different bosses HP and bring them down all at the same time.
However in ESO, it struck me that this game lacks tanks, and the content this game has, is normally just for 1 tank rather than having multiple or even a backup tank.

People will literally believe in that 1 tank all out dps and few healers. It almost feels like the tank cannot fail.
With more content for tanks, it would help out with the Group Finder issue of lack of tanks.

Liofa

There is content that require more than 1 tank . Are you sure you didn't end up in a different forum by mistake ?

Franieck

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

It is already hard to find a tank. It is much harder to find a decent tank. It is even rarer to find a decent and friendly tank. Decent, friendly ant patient? *giggles*... 2 of them? *bursting in laughter, stops, starts crying*

Royaji

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

Cnedra

Lots of good tanks out there, and as people have said already trial content for multiple tanks. Finding a good raid healer is what seems to be a challenge.

qsnoopyjr

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Cnedra wrote: »

Lots of good tanks out there, and as people have said already trial content for multiple tanks. Finding a good raid healer is what seems to be a challenge.

Explain.

Danksta

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

While there already is content that requires more than one tank, we could certainly use some more.

Eshja

I'd like something like vMSA but for tank and healers, that would be awesome .

josiahva

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

As a tank, I would be happy if Vet dungeons required a tank. Right now the only ones that do are the DLC dungeons...which is why I don't even bother with the lesser dungeons much anymore. Even vWGT can be done without a tank these days. As for trials, I think 2 tanks should be required. The new trial does a good job of that, but aside from MoL the other ones do not. In the end though I think its more important for tanks to be needed for vet dungeons. I mean...vet darkshade? a tank actually hurts the group there which is ridiculous. What I would like to see though is a new solo arena focuse on tanks and healers. vMA is great, but its a DPS only arena....that needs to be balanced badly. Surely you can design a solo arena that tests pure survival.

Inhuman003

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

all about the dragonborn Dragon Shouts

casparian

I agree that there need to be more tanks in the game. But I'm not sure that what's needed is content that simply requires more tanks. That seems like too brute a solution. Rather, what we need is content that is more interesting for tanks, to motivate more people to play them.

I've had a DK tank for about as long as I've been in ESO, and I have to say that my DPS and healer toons are much more fun to play. While there are certainly interesting experiences out there for tanks -- I enjoy how much some of the trials make a tank think, and it's satisfying when I enable a good dungeon run -- the vast majority of the game is not set up to reward a player for being a good tank. Most single-player content is pretty tedious (and sometimes virtually impossible) as a tank, and the scoring system for the newest game mode (BGs) hardly acknowledges the existence of tanks at all. As a tank, there is virtually nothing fun I can do without a good group (except crafting), and there is no non-group content that rewards me specifically for my tankiness. And since so many ESO players play without a regular group, there's a strong disincentive for players to roll a tank.

Put another way: DPS players are recognized and rewarded by the game specifically for their DPS performance virtually the entire time they're playing. Tanks are not; in fact, much of the game penalizes you for building for tankiness.

I suspect that ZOS' attempted solution to this problem was the introduction of Warden frost staff tanking: to me, it looks like an attempt to make tanking feel more like DPSing (flashy elemental skills, etc.). But the attempt hasn't quite worked, in part because most people aren't really attracted by the idea of tanking with a stick, and in part because ice staff Warden tanking isn't exactly trial-optimized.

A closely related probelm is that there is no "elite" solo activity specifically for tanks -- there's nothing I can do as a tank that makes me feel "wow this game is hard but it turns out I am an awesome player" unless I am in a group. What I would really like to see is something like VMA, but for tanks: imagine an arena that requires you to perform certain tasks while taking enormous amounts of damage instead of dealing it. Alternatively, VMA could be tweaked so that you could ignore mechanics due to your superior tanking ability, just like elite DPS players can ignore mechanics due their superior DPS ability.

I'm afraid that until we have some way for tanks to enjoy the game (and be recognized by the game's reward systems specifically for their tanking performance) during the time they're not in dungeons/trials, we're always going to have a shortage of tanks.

Cnedra

@qsnoopyjr there are many raids which are incredibly healer heavy and stressful, the ridiculous poisons in Vso, the multiple overcharger pulls, keeping on point for warrior swipes, trying to heal a scattered group for star falls, and most recently the healing debuff/poison/and bleed from Vhof that needs so many purges. They are also expected to toss out orbs/shards while keeping stupid dps that stand in red alive. I main as a tank so I get to see the dps make healers' lives hard.

MaGicBush

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Not sure why so many voted no. All we have is the trial content. I would like some dungeons that involve 2 tanks.

leepalmer95

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

End game trials
The harder vet dungeons
The easier ones if your group isn't a maxed pve group
Dsa
World bosses

Theres enough content for tanks, not sure what else you mean?

Integral1900

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

More tanks! Ha! Never find one when you need one as it is, almost the whole population are dps because we like to kill things, not practice our punching bag impressions

Tasear

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

All Trials are designed for two tanks, but I think more synery or group play between tanks would be nice.

Sakiri

We have plenty of tanks.

They just don't want to tank for pugs.

Making content that requires more of them won't instantly create more tanks.

code65536

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Other MMORPG's I played, especially raid content, you would have multiple tanks.

Erm... I'm guessing you've never raided in ESO?

• vAA: 1 tank for regular, 2 tanks required for hard mode
• vHRC: 1 tank for regular, 2 tanks required for hard mode
• vSO: 2 tanks always required
• vMoL: 2 tanks always required
• vHoF: 2 tanks always required

Of course, multiple tanks only make sense for large-group content; two tanks in 4-person content would mean that 3/4 would be support roles. That's nonsensical.

Bladerunner1

I'm not sure about requiring more than one tank. I think it was mentioned already, but simply having more incentive to tank would help. I like instanced play in other games where you go into a fight as any role you like, and take one or more friends who have their own playstyle. Those games have NPC options that fill in the missing roles, like archer pets or shield bearers. In many of those instanced play sessions, it helps to be a tank to pull aggro off a target you're trying to protect. Another approach would be to burn down the mobs quickly before they reach the target.

ESO seems to favor a DPS race to get through content. There are instances in Craglorn where you're trying to protect a mage, and a tank feels right at home as they distract the trash mobs rushing out to kill the target, but when the 2 gargoyles show up you have to dps them down, there's no stopping or distracting them.

AcadianPaladin

I play a healer and imagine there might be some similarities. That is, questing is more set up for dps than any support char. I would love it if the game could recognize what your character's focus is and provide the appropriate NPC a little often and to more precise effect. With my healer, for example, give me glass cannon NPC that can actually do some serious damage but requires serious healing/support to do it. That way, leveling up and questing a healer or tank would feel more like they are solidly in their role. The same big magicka pool that allows a healer to be a good healer also allows her to defend herself by healing through damage and doing good damage. But the tanks I know basically reconfigure out of tank mode into a less than optimal dps mode for questing - that sounds rather tedious and like it would discourage tanks.

Note: As a healer, my elf is in awe of tanks and simply adores them - mostly because they do what she cannot and enable her to do what she does better. It just seems that tanks have even less incentive to quest solo than a healer. So I'm all for anything that would encourage more tanks and healers.

Sakiri

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I play a healer and imagine there might be some similarities. That is, questing is more set up for dps than any support char. I would love it if the game could recognize what your character's focus is and provide the appropriate NPC a little often and to more precise effect. With my healer, for example, give me glass cannon NPC that can actually do some serious damage but requires serious healing/support to do it. That way, leveling up and questing a healer or tank would feel more like they are solidly in their role. The same big magicka pool that allows a healer to be a good healer also allows her to defend herself by healing through damage and doing good damage. But the tanks I know basically reconfigure out of tank mode into a less than optimal dps mode for questing - that sounds rather tedious and like it would discourage tanks.

Note: As a healer, my elf is in awe of tanks and simply adores them - mostly because they do what she cannot and enable her to do what she does better. It just seems that tanks have even less incentive to quest solo than a healer. So I'm all for anything that would encourage more tanks and healers.

There's plenty of tanks and healers.

They just don't pug.

You want incentive for them to pug, you need people to start being nice to each other. Good luck there.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

josiahva

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

I pug as a tank all the time....but I only pug stuff that can kill me....which is exactly 4 dungeons, vICP, vWGT, vCOS, and vROM. I dont bother with the lesser dungeons anymore because aside from Skoria while he has a damage shield up(after last shield goes down he cant kill me either) there is absolutely nothing in the lesser dungeons that can kill me, Even Selene cant one shot me anymore even if I am not blocking. I guess there are a few mechanic exceptions like whats her name(Bandu?) in FG II that pins you down and Nerieneth in CoH II if the DPS check isn't met. The point being that I find those dungeons boring because I have very little chance of dying, so I focus exclusively on the DLC dungeons. In those dungeons I die to mechanics as well(but I can also die if I am not careful from just pure damage)...but they are more enjoyable because they require a tank...but more importantly, they require teamwork.

Disclaimer: I do actually tank lesser vet dungeons...but for those I use my DPS/tank hybrid, which makes them interesting enough I will willingly play them.

Shad0wfire99

Literally every HM vet trial requires more than one tank.

Oompuh

I would like content that I can play alone as a Tank. It annoys me that a DD can do everything in the game, from Raids to Solo Content to Questing, while I stab a quest mob 40 times to kill it. I understand it, but dont like it.

Iccotak

After Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood DLC I would like to see more Fighters guild content geared towards Tank characters. Maybe for a Companions storyline in Whiterun?

Wifeaggro13

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

BlazingDynamo

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

It would be nice to see a trial that requires less dps and more tanks, like 3 or 4. Make it interesting.

zaria

Iccotak wrote: »

After Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood DLC I would like to see more Fighters guild content geared towards Tank characters. Maybe for a Companions storyline in Whiterun?

Add healers to the mix, returning to my old undaunted academy idea
You have the easy one for normal dungeons, the hard for veteran both assume an non terrible group for content.
Add an top layer as in flawless conqueror and with the difficulty rating.
And its the achievement you want to like after done raid hard mode.
Yes it works like vMA in other ways to as in loot

Royaji

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

Let's not talk about normal here. It's a well known fact that you can pass normal maelstrom with level 3 nightblade with 1 skill on his bar. Normal trials are a faceroll and are supposed to be a faceroll for all the RP guys to enjoy the story.

Two tanks are required for:
vAA: Last boss HM
vHRC: Last boss HM
vSO: Mantikora (black hole mini-boss one-shots DDs), Ozarra (one of the most difficult jobs is for an off-tank), The Serpent including HM (to manage lamias and mantikoras)
vMoL: Zhaj'hassa (if the main tank gets cursed), Twins (bosses have to be tanked separately), Rakkhat (to manage the hulk who wil otherwise one shot main tank)
vHoF: actually requires two tanks. Not main and off. Just plain two tanks.

4-mans can be done without a tank but having a tank makes them so much smoother. Chaining the adds together does wonders on trash pulls.

Wifeaggro13

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Royaji wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

Let's not talk about normal here. It's a well known fact that you can pass normal maelstrom with level 3 nightblade with 1 skill on his bar. Normal trials are a faceroll and are supposed to be a faceroll for all the RP guys to enjoy the story.

Two tanks are required for:
vAA: Last boss HM
vHRC: Last boss HM
vSO: Mantikora (black hole mini-boss one-shots DDs), Ozarra (one of the most difficult jobs is for an off-tank), The Serpent including HM (to manage lamias and mantikoras)
vMoL: Zhaj'hassa (if the main tank gets cursed), Twins (bosses have to be tanked separately), Rakkhat (to manage the hulk who wil otherwise one shot main tank)
vHoF: actually requires two tanks. Not main and off. Just plain two tanks.

4-mans can be done without a tank but having a tank makes them so much smoother. Chaining the adds together does wonders on trash pulls.

Reguardless this game is probably the most unimaginative and dps dependent game designed. Ive not done the last trial i have completely given up hope on eso did most of the garbage single player story of morrowind and moved on. Ive tanked just about everything else in game . Though i dont have full complete on vr sanctum or ful vr mol. Every fourman i have all achieves .this game is by far requires very little skill as a tank. Now im not talking about vr trials mind you those require skill and knowledge, but jsut about everything else requires nothing but some utility bash and block.CC , true utility and debuffing do not exist in this game and the rest of combat mechanics are ignored if dps is high enough . Pulling adds in is god damn easy . Early generation MMo tanking required pull knowledge communiction with crowd control and assisting with damage mitigation . None of that exists here just stack and burn ignore mechanics for 90% of the content

makerofthings

I tank for my Band of brothers however I am reluctant to tank for pugs because of the negativity I read on the forums. If you are not BIS, tank or not you get flamed. Whatever happened to having fun and learning on the job.