Changing Breton racial passives

me_ming

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

EmstCntRob wrote: »

Yes definitly, if you want to play a magicka dps character and you want to mini max you must be an elf. I have tried both a breton and a dark elf dragonknight, tried a breton and high elf sorc and each time i lose a good 2-5k dps wich is simply too much to not be the latter. Giving bretons extra magicka damage wont help breton dragonknights sure, it will help sorcerors a bit though and look at templars and nightblades, it would bring a nice variaty towards races in the magicka playstyle.

I understand to aspect as to lore, but lore cant be everything in my opinion. Balance is what we need, this is not just a rpg. its online, the variaty is low and that kind of sucks.

Much love to all,

It is balanced. Bretons are good at healing and tanking. Making every race in this game be DPS oriented will make this game imbalance.

like you said, if you want to min-max go be an altmer or dunmer. That's just it. Making every class a DPS race will mean, there's no point min-maxing, am I right?

Lord_Eomer

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

theamazingx wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The 3% cost reduction has long been considered better than the 9% added regen Altmers get.

I've posted a lot of calculations from the REAL fight that not you, not Mage, not anyone else was able to beat. Not someones 'dreams' and 'feelings' but real calculations. Did you study math yet? Hope yes.
3% cost reduction is equal to 6% additional regen. Care to prove me wrong? Not? Predictable.
Remember - I'm russian, I don't care about feelings - show me the real numbers and calculations and then we would talk. Until that - you are just another CNN and can be freely ignored and laughed. And no any offense here.
Have a nice day

I'm in bad mood now - just watched another example of ****** called Wonderwoman, so didn't try to pick me up.

Wonder Woman was good tho


On topic, breton is already, in a general sense, #3 for magdps while being #1 for heals. I don't see the need for a buff.

Number 1 in heals are argonians or even altmers do almost similar heals as bretons

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

me_ming wrote: »

rage without any numbers but with crazy outdated videos

Man, this works in both directions: who YOU are here? For me - noone. Happy?
You would made calculations here or move along, please.

I can suggest a build for magtank for myself. I need a real proofs, not (lol) Wayrest Sewrs 1 at normal. And how it relevant to this thread?
Anyway, you can create a thread about that somewhere and discuss magtank builds there, not with me anymore.

Bringer wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% mag regen.

You cant make a statement like that

Yes, I can.
Calculations was done before - please, take care to find it in this thread.

Lord_Eomer

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

me_ming wrote: »

EmstCntRob wrote: »

Yes definitly, if you want to play a magicka dps character and you want to mini max you must be an elf. I have tried both a breton and a dark elf dragonknight, tried a breton and high elf sorc and each time i lose a good 2-5k dps wich is simply too much to not be the latter. Giving bretons extra magicka damage wont help breton dragonknights sure, it will help sorcerors a bit though and look at templars and nightblades, it would bring a nice variaty towards races in the magicka playstyle.

I understand to aspect as to lore, but lore cant be everything in my opinion. Balance is what we need, this is not just a rpg. its online, the variaty is low and that kind of sucks.

Much love to all,

It is balanced. Bretons are good at healing and tanking. Making every race in this game be DPS oriented will make this game imbalance.

like you said, if you want to min-max go be an altmer or dunmer. That's just it. Making every class a DPS race will mean, there's no point min-maxing, am I right?

What bretons are good in tanking? Have you ever tank? Sword and Board uses stam to block and big magicka pool would not help a DK but health and 2nd pool stamina now. DK always using more mag recovery for generating stam back, this also got nerf.
Morrowind changes everything, block cost charge changea from 0.5 second to 0.25 second. Frost tanking is still a jolk.

4k spell resistance mitigates around 6 % mag damage and there is a hard cap of 33.k resistance.

If u want to roll a tank should go with imperial, argonian or nord.

There is no such thing magicka tanks with morrowind, ppl may claim but sword and board is the winner!

How are you calling them a better healer? Can you bother explaining? Argonian still on top, they regerates magicka from pots, have healing buff and 3% max mag buff!

Alteners can stack mag recovery on top of their racial passive and can get similar results as bretons!

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

me_ming wrote: »

[It is balanced. Bretons are good at healing and tanking. Making every race in this game be DPS oriented will make this game imbalance.

like you said, if you want to min-max go be an altmer or dunmer. That's just it. Making every class a DPS race will mean, there's no point min-maxing, am I right?

Do you know what elements DD Templars and NBs are using, right?

Rygonix

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

Okay, is this thread about asking questions and theorycrafting..or demanding and obfuscating? Based on the attitude of the OP and the fact he was already warned once in this thread by a mod, I am leaning towards the latter.

me_ming

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

SilverWF wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

rage without any numbers but with crazy outdated videos

Man, this works in both directions: who YOU are here? For me - noone. Happy?
You would made calculations here or move along, please.

I can suggest a build for magtank for myself. I need a real proofs, not (lol) Wayrest Sewrs 1 at normal. And how it relevant to this thread?
Anyway, you can create a thread about that somewhere and discuss magtank builds there, not with me anymore.

Bringer wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% mag regen.

You cant make a statement like that

Yes, I can.
Calculations was done before - please, take care to find it in this thread.

Yeah, but I didn't make ridiculous suggestions on changing a passive that's perfectly fine, did I? lol

Please learn how to communicate in English first. Would really help a lot. Because right now, well, you just appear ummmm... illiterate.

Lord_Eomer

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Dragonskin. As far as I remember Bretons were always the tankier mag users. Good for builds focusing on absorbing and negating hostile magic. This is why they have defensive mag passives.

Lol, this is what you call tanking? Go and do some tanking then post something! Having some spell resistance not means tankier FYI..

What negate and absorb magick their racial passive supports?

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

Rygonix wrote: »

Okay, is this thread about asking questions and theorycrafting..or demanding and obfuscating? Based on the attitude of the OP and the fact he was already warned once in this thread by a mod, I am leaning towards the latter.

I wasn't warned, thanks for your 1 cent here

me_ming wrote: »

Yeah, but I didn't make ridiculous suggestions on changing a passive that's perfectly fine, did I? lol
Please learn how to communicate in English first. Would really help a lot. Because right now, well, you just appear ummmm... illiterate.

If you have real numbers and calculations - don't be shy to post it. This thread is for discussion. Discussion with numbers, not with "justsayings"
If you would try to teach me english or politeness, especially in this manner - well, sure, you can try, but I wouldn't listen.

Lord_Eomer

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

me_ming wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

You are wrong.
Best healers ARE Bretons, and this is why their passives should not change. Reduction is better than recovery ...

See? Here is a simple lie. 1% reduction is better than 10% mag recovery? Sure not. But you said it is.
3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% mag regen. Care to prove me wrong? One arguer (Legendary Mage) has disappeared after this simple question. Would you be next here?
If you can tank a mudcrab with your magetank - doesn't means they are exists.

If you wanna play mag Sorc - chooses Altmer. Just NO any other choices.
Mag DK - Dunmer. Another race? Dunmer's racial bonus equals to ingame minor damage buff and stacks with it. Awesome design!
What to choose for Mag Templar and NB? Let it be Bretons.

Or you wanna talk that High and Dark elves passives are way too strong?

lol. I suggest you actually learn how this game works first before you make suggestions on what you want to change in this game. The simple fact that you have no clue that this game has magicka based tanks, means you know nothing about this game. lol.

Not everyone in this game want to play a DPS.

I don't need to prove anything to you because A.) I highly doubt you understand anything here that has been explained to you multiple times and B.) who are you again?

FYI, I don't have a tank. But I have friends who play magicka based tanks who tanked every vet trial and vet dungeon.

oh and here, I've taken the liberty of showing you some magicka tank builds:

magplar tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lGYVXPi3QY

magDK tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OThQL73iTRk

magsorc tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiXZbXZ2pgo

magNB tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebput1ajX10

*these are just on top of my search in youtube. Lots more if you only take the effort to research before you open your mouth.

Lastly, if people stop arguing with you it doesn't prove you're right. Sometimes, it means that people know that they are just hitting their heads against a wall when they try to enlighten you. I hope you get the reference, but again, I highly doubt you do. lol

It seems you have no idea how tanking works in vet trials, the time you starting doing dps wbile tank = you are dead!

Tank suppose to hold boss, block damage, buff group (if can). There is no dps required from tank.

Very experienced players can try magplar tank or mag dk fire tank but its not good in vet trials.

So you need to first do vet trials before writing such things. Vet Hel Ra warrior hits very hard ans without blocking you are dead in a second, axes in Vet AA hits harder.

New trial is very tough and requires tank to block every most of the time!

Tank who is keep dying and getting group dead is not a tank but a jolk!

Nemesis7884

Not - I can't explain why, just not

Honestly there are other races that need a change much more....*cough Nord*.... besides of anything is changed i vote for more actively involved bonuses that only give you a bonus in certain scenarios like redguard or imperial

Flameheart

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

Either magical damage bonus or the magicka reg.

..and if we are already on topic, make Reflective Light / Vampire's Bane magical damage.

So your new War Maiden set might be a real option not just for magblades who are too lazy to farm Scathing Mage.

Rygonix

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

There have been multiple comments removed for being rude and spiraling into flaming. In the previous thread on this topic which was closed, it was advised to avoid the discussion getting heated. This means not attacking another player if their opinion is different from your own. We are leaving the discussion open, but if the thread continues to get out of hand it will be shut down.

Now who is he primarily referring to? The only person here with a passion for attacking posters with offending opinions that are different from their own is you, Silver

SilverWF wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

You are wrong.
Best healers ARE Bretons, and this is why their passives should not change. Reduction is better than recovery ...

3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% mag regen. Care to prove me wrong? One arguer (Legendary Mage) has disappeared after this simple question. Would you be next here?

SilverWF wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

Is this a joke? Breadtons are one of, if not the strongest class in the game. Please clarify as to why you would buff them.

It is already clarified in the 1st post. Your inability to read is not my problem.

People are trying to have a discussion and any unfavorable opinions are immediately shot down, typically with Ad Hominem to go with it.

Lord_Eomer

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Honestly there are other races that need a change much more....*cough Nord*.... besides of anything is changed i vote for more actively involved bonuses that only give you a bonus in certain scenarios like redguard or imperial

Nord is good choice as tank, cold resistance have no use as currently most damage is based on Fire elemental.

Imperials are good as tank / dps and needs no change but this dlc race should best fit for magicka and stamina not just for stamina only.

Redguards are Stam DPS kings like Altemers for Mag, they do not need any change except nerf with Morrowind was bad.

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Honestly there are other races that need a change much more....*cough Nord*.... besides of anything is changed i vote for more actively involved bonuses that only give you a bonus in certain scenarios like redguard or imperial

They can give to Nords a little bonus to cold damage, but I don't really care. For me personally Nord=best_tank and I'm fine with it.

Rygonix wrote: »

People are trying to have a discussion and any unfavorable opinions are immediately shot down, typically with Ad Hominem to go with it.

Talk for yourself only. Where is your try to discuss? Can't see it, sorry. Maybe it only in your mind?

dodgehopper_ESO

I'm surprised no one is talking about Argonian Templars in all this discussion of magic builds. While I recognize they do not hit quite as hard as a Breton or Altmer the potion passive, increased healing received and done, and bonus health really are interesting passives. I do realize in pvp the healing effects are nerfed a bit on the Argonian which is a bit unfair in some ways. I'm not particularly fond of the system working from that framework to begin with. I think mmo's should design with pvp balance first, and then build pve around that balance. I've said this before and I'll probably say it again.

LegendaryMage

SilverWF wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

You are wrong.
Best healers ARE Bretons, and this is why their passives should not change. Reduction is better than recovery ...

See? Here is a simple lie. 1% reduction is better than 10% mag recovery? Sure not. But you said it is.
3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% mag regen. Care to prove me wrong? One arguer (Legendary Mage) has disappeared after this simple question. Would you be next here?
If you can tank a mudcrab with your magetank - doesn't means they are exists.

If you wanna play mag Sorc - chooses Altmer. Just NO any other choices.
Mag DK - Dunmer. Another race? Dunmer's racial bonus equals to ingame minor damage buff and stacks with it. Awesome design!
What to choose for Mag Templar and NB? Let it be Bretons.

Or you wanna talk that High and Dark elves passives are way too strong?

Disappeared? Are you trying to be insultful towards me with that tone? Now listen to me very carefully and forget about your biased opinions while you're reading this:

1. Mag DK: Altmer is slightly better than Breton due to elemental damage boost. Breton is right there behind Altmer, insignificant difference.
2. Stam DK: They're both bad.
3. Mag Templar: Breton blows Altmer out of the water easily.
4. Stam Templar: They're both bad.
5. Mag NB: Breton & Altmer are equal.
6. Stam NB: They're both bad.
7. Mag Sorc: They're both great and if you match an equally geared/skilled Altmer sorc vs a perfect mirror Breton sorc, the Breton will have an easier time in that fight.
8. Stam Sorc: They're both bad.
9. Mag & Stam Warden, I don't care, not playing it at the moment.

Now you take as long as you need to absorb this information and listen to someone who is more experienced than you.

Tryxus

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

This thread back? Oh brother...

Alright, let me get some numbers from my Warden, since the OP loves them sooooo much (as well as Stam builds) that he loves to run vRoM with them

My MagDen is a Breton healer btw, but this comes from a solo setup for World bosses and vMSA: 2x Iceheart, 5x Necro, 3x Moondancer with damage glyphs and Master/Maelstrom Staves

Dive, the Cliff Racer spammable, has a cost of 2155 Magicka. Which means the other races will have a cost of 2220 (rounded up). Each cast, the Breton saves up 65 Magicka more than others

My Regen is at 745. Which means the Altmer has a regen of 820 (rounded up). During the cast of the skill, he'll regain 38 Magicka.

Now, does this mean Breton wins? Nope. There are other factors like other sources of Reduce Cost, Regen increase, other skills with diff magicka cost, etc, ...

But it does show 2 things:
1. When we're dealing with higher regen numbers, it does get a bit harder for the Breton. However, there's nothing stopping the Breton from achieving high regen either. And both races carry their sustain passive with it
2. Higher spell cost = Breton passive more useful. Healers for instance have spells in the 3.5k cost range. Combined with having more Magicka than Argonians and being tankier with.the spell resist, this puts Bretons on the same lvl as Argonians. Argonians have more powerful heals, Bretons can sustain better and provide more heals.

As for PvP, Mage made a good point earlier: the Altmer passive doesn't buff every attack, only the elemental ones whereas the Breton passive works against both Elemental as well as Magic Damage.

Do Bretons need a buff? Sure, if you're looking to humiliate the other races.

/thread

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Disappeared? Are you trying to be insultful towards me with that tone? Now listen to me very carefully and forget about your biased opinions while you're reading this:

1. Mag DK: Altmer is slightly better than Breton due to elemental damage boost. Breton is right there behind Altmer, insignificant difference.
2. Stam DK: They're both bad.
3. Mag Templar: Breton blows Altmer out of the water easily.
4. Stam Templar: They're both bad.
5. Mag NB: Breton & Altmer are equal.
6. Stam NB: They're both bad.
7. Mag Sorc: They're both great and if you match an equally geared/skilled Altmer sorc vs a perfect mirror Breton sorc, the Breton will have an easier time in that fight.
8. Stam Sorc: They're both bad.
9. Mag & Stam Warden, I don't care, not playing it at the moment.

Now you take as long as you need to absorb this information and listen to someone who is more experienced than you.

You are ignored numbers again. Man, seriously, there is your experience, here is mine. Your is more important for you, mine - for me.
That's why there must be numbers, not opinions, "experience" and "justsayings".
Have no idea why you decided that you are more experienced, than me, but this is funny anyway.
Also funny that fact that you decided to completely ignore Dunmers may I ask: why?
Both mag NB and Templars are MUST use Destrostaff. All of it's skills are elemental.
All proc monster sets (that are MUST too: Ilambris, Grothdar, Valkyn, etc) are elemental. Saying that Altmer and Breton are equal here - dunno...
Sure, you are experienced player, no doubt. The question is only: why you are not fair here?
Since when we are talking about Breton vs Altmer duel only, btw?

SanTii.92

Not - I can't explain why, just not

I want to ask a question a bit off topic, hope no one mind. How does Breton reduce cost passive work with seducers and light armor. Is it multiplicative or additive?

About the topic, I do think bretons could use some love regardless what I originally voted, but I know they are not coming any time soon. Now that we got race change tokens zos will probably be very cautious with race changes to avoid 'forcing' players to do so.

ArchMikem

SilverWF wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

So characters that are already getting help from Racial passives to have massive max magic, would also have regen or damage boosts too? Yknow damage scales off your resource pools already.

Instead other races need more. If Khajiit could get a max stam bonus, or a spell crit bonus thatd be nice.

Agree, so let's remove damage bonuses from Altmers and Dunmers? They have already Max. magica bonus, right?

Khjiits are not magicka race, they don't need any kind of mag passives.

Races are not hog tied to a specific attribute and they shouldn't be. Magic is prevalent in all Races, if Khajiit aren't a Magicka Race, then my Templar and Sorc would be waving around plain sticks with nothing happening.

More specifically, Khajiit have a bonus to precision attacks and agility/endurance. Why should that precision be limited to just weapons?

LegendaryMage

SilverWF wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Disappeared? Are you trying to be insultful towards me with that tone? Now listen to me very carefully and forget about your biased opinions while you're reading this:

1. Mag DK: Altmer is slightly better than Breton due to elemental damage boost. Breton is right there behind Altmer, insignificant difference.
2. Stam DK: They're both bad.
3. Mag Templar: Breton blows Altmer out of the water easily.
4. Stam Templar: They're both bad.
5. Mag NB: Breton & Altmer are equal.
6. Stam NB: They're both bad.
7. Mag Sorc: They're both great and if you match an equally geared/skilled Altmer sorc vs a perfect mirror Breton sorc, the Breton will have an easier time in that fight.
8. Stam Sorc: They're both bad.
9. Mag & Stam Warden, I don't care, not playing it at the moment.

Now you take as long as you need to absorb this information and listen to someone who is more experienced than you.

You are ignored numbers again. Man, seriously, there is your experience, here is mine. Your is more important for you, mine - for me.
That's why there must be numbers, not opinions, "experience" and "justsayings".
Have no idea why you decided that you are more experienced, than me, but this is funny anyway.
Also funny that fact that you decided to completely ignore Dunmers may I ask: why?
Both mag NB and Templars are MUST use Destrostaff. All of it's skills are elemental.
All proc monster sets (that are MUST too: Ilambris, Grothdar, Valkyn, etc) are elemental. Saying that Altmer and Breton are equal here - dunno...
Sure, you are experienced player, no doubt. The question is only: why you are not fair here?
Since when we are talking about Breton vs Altmer duel only, btw?

We are comparing Bretons and Altmers. You say Altmers are better, I say they're not. Numbers are numbers and they don't lie. But posting a simple equation where you argue that Altmer's 9% magicka regen is approximately 4-5% better is not a good point.

Even if Altmer's magicka regen passive is slightly better than Breton's cost reduction, Breton's spell resistance is in the same way better than Altmer's elemental damage boost. That's called balance. The two races are balanced. Breton is better in some cases as I said before. Bretons are fine as is, if you buff them up they will over-perform other races easily.

JWKe

Gl seeing any changes. Best bet would just be to change race. Of course that would cost you an arm and a leg. Zo$ lols.

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

Tryxus wrote: »

This thread back? Oh brother...

Alright, let me get some numbers from my Warden, since the OP loves them sooooo much (as well as Stam builds) that he loves to run vRoM with them

My MagDen is a Breton healer btw, but this comes from a solo setup for World bosses and vMSA: 2x Iceheart, 5x Necro, 3x Moondancer with damage glyphs and Master/Maelstrom Staves

Dive, the Cliff Racer spammable, has a cost of 2155 Magicka. Which means the other races will have a cost of 2220 (rounded up). Each cast, the Breton saves up 65 Magicka more than others

My Regen is at 745. Which means the Altmer has a regen of 820 (rounded up). During the cast of the skill, he'll regain 38 Magicka.

Now, does this mean Breton wins? Nope. There are other factors like other sources of Reduce Cost, Regen increase, other skills with diff magicka cost, etc, ...

But it does show 2 things:
1. When we're dealing with higher regen numbers, it does get a bit harder for the Breton. However, there's nothing stopping the Breton from achieving high regen either. And both races carry their sustain passive with it
2. Higher spell cost = Breton passive more useful. Healers for instance have spells in the 3.5k cost range. Combined with having more Magicka than Argonians and being tankier with.the spell resist, this puts Bretons on the same lvl as Argonians. Argonians have more powerful heals, Bretons can sustain better and provide more heals.

As for PvP, Mage made a good point earlier: the Altmer passive doesn't buff every attack, only the elemental ones whereas the Breton passive works against both Elemental as well as Magic Damage.

Do Bretons need a buff? Sure, if you're looking to humiliate the other races.

/thread

Nothing forces you to came here, 'brother'
Nah, I hate running vet HM stuff with stam DDs - there is so little really good ones ><

What a double dealing? My NB Funnel health has a cost 1646 mag, another races would have 1695. So it saves me 50 mag each cast. This is equals to ~100 additional mag regen, but only if: I would cast that skill every second.
I have ~1900 mag regen, Altmer would have here much more. And even with that numbers he would be able to put additional Spell damage glyph on jewelry instead of one fore regen (like Bretons) that would increase their damage even more. And their regen is always with them without any additional stuff.
(I even didn't say: wtf with your regen? My stam Nord DK tank has 1.5 times more mag regen ><)
I have no idea: what I need to do to run out from mana at my Argonian healer, really. Maybe, mindlessly spam BOL? Some experienced players around can recommend this healing style? Oh, seems I see one

Osteos

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

ola.wilhelmssonb16_ESO wrote: »

How about complementing the Breton spell resistance with a small chance to absorb some magicka from spells that do damage? Not spells that hit shields, mind you. We don't need a racial passive that stacks with Harness Magicka...

The lore that support such a racial passive is Dragonskin.

The chances to absorb could be something like 1/3/5% and the amount absorbed perhaps 5/7/10% of the magicka cost of the spell in question.

And yes, I know that Dragonskin is a once-per-day greater ability in Oblivion and Skyrim, but I think my suggestion would be reasonable adaptation for ESO.

This is actually a really interesting idea and more inline with the original idea of Bretons. Having played one in Arena you were not tanky but you were at your best when fighting magicka users. When fighting melee fighters Bretons had to be very careful, you couldn't regen magicka, you replenished your pool by absorbing spells or drinking potions, so every spell and attack had to count. It was a fun and challenging playstyle.

SilverWF

Yes - for Mag damage bonus

LegendaryMage wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Disappeared? Are you trying to be insultful towards me with that tone? Now listen to me very carefully and forget about your biased opinions while you're reading this:

1. Mag DK: Altmer is slightly better than Breton due to elemental damage boost. Breton is right there behind Altmer, insignificant difference.
2. Stam DK: They're both bad.
3. Mag Templar: Breton blows Altmer out of the water easily.
4. Stam Templar: They're both bad.
5. Mag NB: Breton & Altmer are equal.
6. Stam NB: They're both bad.
7. Mag Sorc: They're both great and if you match an equally geared/skilled Altmer sorc vs a perfect mirror Breton sorc, the Breton will have an easier time in that fight.
8. Stam Sorc: They're both bad.
9. Mag & Stam Warden, I don't care, not playing it at the moment.

Now you take as long as you need to absorb this information and listen to someone who is more experienced than you.

You are ignored numbers again. Man, seriously, there is your experience, here is mine. Your is more important for you, mine - for me.
That's why there must be numbers, not opinions, "experience" and "justsayings".
Have no idea why you decided that you are more experienced, than me, but this is funny anyway.
Also funny that fact that you decided to completely ignore Dunmers may I ask: why?
Both mag NB and Templars are MUST use Destrostaff. All of it's skills are elemental.
All proc monster sets (that are MUST too: Ilambris, Grothdar, Valkyn, etc) are elemental. Saying that Altmer and Breton are equal here - dunno...
Sure, you are experienced player, no doubt. The question is only: why you are not fair here?
Since when we are talking about Breton vs Altmer duel only, btw?

We are comparing Bretons and Altmers. You say Altmers are better, I say they're not. Numbers are numbers and they don't lie. But posting a simple equation where you argue that Altmer's 9% magicka regen is approximately 4-5% better is not a good point.

Even if Altmer's magicka regen passive is slightly better than Breton's cost reduction, Breton's spell resistance is in the same way better than Altmer's elemental damage boost. That's called balance. The two races are balanced. Breton is better in some cases as I said before. Bretons are fine as is, if you buff them up they will over-perform other races easily.

Not sir. That is you comparing something here. I'm only here to buff saxons, really. And there is several options for it: not only mag damage boost (pretty low btw - in comparison with huge elemntal buff for elves). If I'd care about Altmers and Dunmers I'd rather create a thread "Altmer and Dunmer passives are way too strong and leaves no choice for mag DD", but I didn't. Still I can
I only said, that Bretons 3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% additional regen. For the race without damage boost it must be bigger (with few regen % added) or added that damage boost (that is still very low in comparison with... you know).

theamazingx

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

SilverWF wrote: »

Nord=best_tank

W E W

LegendaryMage

SilverWF wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Disappeared? Are you trying to be insultful towards me with that tone? Now listen to me very carefully and forget about your biased opinions while you're reading this:

1. Mag DK: Altmer is slightly better than Breton due to elemental damage boost. Breton is right there behind Altmer, insignificant difference.
2. Stam DK: They're both bad.
3. Mag Templar: Breton blows Altmer out of the water easily.
4. Stam Templar: They're both bad.
5. Mag NB: Breton & Altmer are equal.
6. Stam NB: They're both bad.
7. Mag Sorc: They're both great and if you match an equally geared/skilled Altmer sorc vs a perfect mirror Breton sorc, the Breton will have an easier time in that fight.
8. Stam Sorc: They're both bad.
9. Mag & Stam Warden, I don't care, not playing it at the moment.

Now you take as long as you need to absorb this information and listen to someone who is more experienced than you.

You are ignored numbers again. Man, seriously, there is your experience, here is mine. Your is more important for you, mine - for me.
That's why there must be numbers, not opinions, "experience" and "justsayings".
Have no idea why you decided that you are more experienced, than me, but this is funny anyway.
Also funny that fact that you decided to completely ignore Dunmers may I ask: why?
Both mag NB and Templars are MUST use Destrostaff. All of it's skills are elemental.
All proc monster sets (that are MUST too: Ilambris, Grothdar, Valkyn, etc) are elemental. Saying that Altmer and Breton are equal here - dunno...
Sure, you are experienced player, no doubt. The question is only: why you are not fair here?
Since when we are talking about Breton vs Altmer duel only, btw?

We are comparing Bretons and Altmers. You say Altmers are better, I say they're not. Numbers are numbers and they don't lie. But posting a simple equation where you argue that Altmer's 9% magicka regen is approximately 4-5% better is not a good point.

Even if Altmer's magicka regen passive is slightly better than Breton's cost reduction, Breton's spell resistance is in the same way better than Altmer's elemental damage boost. That's called balance. The two races are balanced. Breton is better in some cases as I said before. Bretons are fine as is, if you buff them up they will over-perform other races easily.

Not sir. That is you comparing something here. I'm only here to buff saxons, really. And there is several options for it: not only mag damage boost (pretty low btw - in comparison with huge elemntal buff for elves). If I'd care about Altmers and Dunmers I'd rather create a thread "Altmer and Dunmer passives are way too strong and leaves no choice for mag DD", but I didn't. Still I can
I only said, that Bretons 3% cost reduction is equals to 5-6% additional regen. For the race without damage boost it must be bigger (with few regen % added) or added that damage boost (that is still very low in comparison with... you know).

Well I guess it's good that you're not the one balancing the game, otherwise everyone and their grandmas would be running a Breton now.

Thannazzar

Yes - for something else (would explain in comments)

Better yet change all racials so they are star sign related and race is only relevant for appearance.

idk

Not - I can explain why (in comments)

SilverWF wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

[It is balanced. Bretons are good at healing and tanking. Making every race in this game be DPS oriented will make this game imbalance.

like you said, if you want to min-max go be an altmer or dunmer. That's just it. Making every class a DPS race will mean, there's no point min-maxing, am I right?

Do you know what elements DD Templars and NBs are using, right?

Fire, mostly. WoE and Vampires bane for Templars. Just WoE for NBs.