Breton racial passives

SilverWF

Bretons are mentioned to be magicka class, probably DD (along with Altmers and Dunmers), but they do not have mag regen, nor spell damage boost.
So, what if:

Add Mag regen to Gift of Magnus passive: Increases Max Magicka by 4/7/10% and Magicka regen by 4/7/10%
This change would help to any mag role and class, because in the current meta, mag regen is a king. And 3% cost reduction from last passive is much lower, that some boost to regen, if calculate it in the real fight conditions. Maybe 10% is too much here, then it can be lowered, i.e. to 2/4/6%

OR (this is OR, not AND, please read carefully)

Add Mag damage boost to Magicka Mastery passive: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 1/2/3% and increases your Magic damage by 1/2/3%
(Note: Magic damage - is a separate type of spell damage, like Fire, Ice etc.)
We already have 2 races focused on the elemental damage - Altmer and Dunmer, that is preferable to use with mag-DD Sorc and DK. But we do not have any race, that can be best for mag-DD Templar and NB. This can fix it.

OR

Passive Spell Resistance turns into Resistant passive: Increases Spell Resistance by 1320 / 2640 / 3960 and Critical Resistance by 500 / 1000 / 1500
Since Bretons are have some tanky passive and Alliance points gain from 1st passive, why not improve their tankyness in the PVP by adding some natural Critical resistance? This looks pretty relevant and will allow Bretons to save some points in the CP and invest it to damage or regen.

What do you think?
.

danno8

They can't add anything to Gift of Magus since Altmer also have that passive. But they should certainly boost Magicka Mastery in some way.

Altmer is now absolutely the best Magicka damage dealing race to choose.

Oh and you should change your description of Magic damage and just say it is a separate damage type, like fire, ice, lightning, physical, poison etc... Saying it is a different type of "spell damage" is just going to confuse people, lol.

SanTii.92

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds), and max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

Danksta

Bretons are fine as they are. They sacrifice a little bit of damage for some tankiness.

SilverWF

danno8 wrote: »

They can't add anything to Gift of Magus since Altmer also have that passive. But they should certainly boost Magicka Mastery in some way.

But they can make a separate passive for Bretons.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds)
max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

1. What is 3% cost reduce from 3000? 90. Every 1,5 seconds, so it is ~120 (and much lesser for cheaper spells) every 2 sec if you are constantly casting.
What is 10% regen from 1500? 150. Every 2 sec. That is always with you.

2. But Altmers and Dumners has Max Mag and Spell dmg bost at the same time!

Bretons are NOT strong race. Also, seems like you are ignored "OR" word.

Danksta wrote: »

Bretons are fine as they are. They sacrifice a little bit of damage for some tankiness.

Sorry, but with the last changes (boosted penetration CP passives), extra 4k spell resist is nothing. Literally.

the_man_of_steal

Bretons could be very strong! but with the reduce cost of Mag CP node gone, Bretons have taken a monster hit and are middle tier at best now.

SilverWF

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

with the reduce cost of Mag CP node gone

As for me, they even can remove that pointless 3% cost reduce from Breton passives, but with both suggestion (regen and damage) implemented at the same time.

Danksta

SilverWF wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

They can't add anything to Gift of Magus since Altmer also have that passive. But they should certainly boost Magicka Mastery in some way.

But they can make a separate passive for Bretons.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds)
max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

1. What is 3% cost reduce from 3000? 90. Every 1,5 seconds, so it is ~120 (and much lesser for cheaper spells) every 2 sec if you are constantly casting.
What is 10% regen from 1500? 150. Every 2 sec. That is always with you.

2. But Altmers and Dumners has Max Mag and Spell dmg bost at the same time!

Bretons are NOT strong race. Also, seems like you are ignored "OR" word.

Danksta wrote: »

Bretons are fine as they are. They sacrifice a little bit of damage for some tankiness.

Sorry, but with the last changes (boosted penetration CP passives), extra 4k spell resist is nothing. Literally.

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

SilverWF

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

Asardes

They should boost the cost reduction passive from 1/2/3% to 1/3/5% or even 2/4/6%. No other changes needed.

Danksta

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

I never said I don't PvP, I do both. I also never said that Bretons were OP, but just because they aren't OP doesn't mean they need a buff. Also Breton happens to be a decent race for healing so that tankiness comes in handy then. I like my added spell resistance on my Breton Templar for vMA as well, where I don't have a tank and healer. A lot of assumptions in there. You do know what they say about making assumption, right?

SilverWF

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

I never said I don't PvP, I do both. I also never said that Bretons were OP, but just because they aren't OP doesn't mean they need a buff. Also Breton happens to be a decent race for healing so that tankiness comes in handy then. I like my added spell resistance on my Breton Templar for vMA as well, where I don't have a tank and healer. A lot of assumptions in there. You do know what they say about making assumption, right?

I'm not trying to make OP from Bretons (just to bring them a bit closer to the top-mag races), nor remove their spell resist
What you are arguing here?

idk

The cost reduction passive is probably better than regen with the current design. At the very least it's in line with it since so much cost reduction was removed.

Further, changing the spell resist to increasing magicka damage would benefit one or two clssses. It would certainly benefit the Templar and the NB would be good with it if they used swallow soul instead of force pulse but a Sorc would get less benefit and a ,DK probably none so the class would be the most restrictive on receiving benefit from the passive vs dunmer and high elf as things are now.

It's probably best to leave the Bretton as it is. Decent cost reduction. Max magicka and some damage resistance.

Btw, cannot add something without taking something away. Cannot add magika damage and keep the current 3 passives.

SanTii.92

SilverWF wrote: »

Bretons are NOT strong race.

They are only not the best pve dps race, but for some classes that don't have much elemental damage, they are the best option for pvp, and some support roles. So, yes they are a strong race.

Danksta

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

I never said I don't PvP, I do both. I also never said that Bretons were OP, but just because they aren't OP doesn't mean they need a buff. Also Breton happens to be a decent race for healing so that tankiness comes in handy then. I like my added spell resistance on my Breton Templar for vMA as well, where I don't have a tank and healer. A lot of assumptions in there. You do know what they say about making assumption, right?

I'm not trying to make OP from Bretons (just to bring them a bit closer to the top-mag races), nor remove their spell resist
What you are arguing here?

I'm saying they're fine. They are decent DDs and healers, they don't need to be the best at anything. If they were to get a damage buff I think they should remove the spell resistance buff, but I think that would make them feel to similar to Altmers.

Honghua

Because Breton is tank-magicka oriented race, not damage dealer.
The strongest pvp magicka imho.

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The cost reduction passive is probably better than regen with the current design

I've already made a calculations about it, please, look closely at it.
About benefition: yes, nothing wrong with it.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

for some classes that don't have much elemental damage

Yes, that's a goal - to make an unique race with not elemental, but magic damage boost in the passives.

makreth

SilverWF wrote: »

Bretons are mentioned to be magicka class, probably DD (along with Altmers and Dunmers), but they do not have mag regen, nor spell damage boost.
So, what if:
Add Mag regen to Gift of Magnus passive: Increases Max Magicka by 4/7/10% and Magicka regen by 4/7/10%
or
Add Mag damage boost to Magicka Mastery passive: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 1/2/3% and increases your Magic damage by 1/2/3%
(Note: Magic damage - is a separate type of spell damage, like Fire, Ice etc.)

What do you think?

They are a magicka race, they gain max magicka, magicka cost reduction, and spell resistances. I don't think there is a race that has pure spell damage or weapon damage as a passive.

idk

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

I never said I don't PvP, I do both. I also never said that Bretons were OP, but just because they aren't OP doesn't mean they need a buff. Also Breton happens to be a decent race for healing so that tankiness comes in handy then. I like my added spell resistance on my Breton Templar for vMA as well, where I don't have a tank and healer. A lot of assumptions in there. You do know what they say about making assumption, right?

I'm not trying to make OP from Bretons (just to bring them a bit closer to the top-mag races), nor remove their spell resist
What you are arguing here?

I'm saying they're fine. They are decent DDs and healers, they don't need to be the best at anything. If they were to get a damage buff I think they should remove the spell resistance buff, but I think that would make them feel to similar to Altmers.

This is true. It's know Dro Mathra Destroyers that are brettons. Skill has a greater effect on dps than the passives anyhow.

SilverWF

makreth wrote: »

They are a magicka race, they gain max magicka, magicka cost reduction, and spell resistances. I don't think there is a race that has pure spell damage or weapon damage as a passive.

You are right and noone asking for that here too.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

makreth wrote: »

They are a magicka race, they gain max magicka, magicka cost reduction, and spell resistances. I don't think there is a race that has pure spell damage or weapon damage as a passive.

You are right and noone asking for that here too.

The thread is going to derail if you keep nitpicking posts. The reply I quoted is not the only relevant example in this thread.

Honghua

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Bretons are fine as they are. They sacrifice a little bit of damage for some tankiness.

Sorry, but with the last changes (boosted penetration CP passives), extra 4k spell resist is nothing. Literally.

3960 magic resistance is still 6% magic damage reduction, whatever you will do.
6% lower damage vs 4% higher damage.

And about the mag regen vs Cost reduction.
As a templar using 4 skills i am already granted with 380-400 magicka saved in few seconds, while altmer with his 9% mag regen gains 120-135 mag every 2 seconds, he needs 4 seconds in total to regain as much magicka as i have spend on my breton withing 2 seconds.
The thing is, as a breton to max out this passive you have to invest into magicka regeneration in rings and amulat, so it will double the effect up in final.
And since we have now CP mastery which reduces the mana regen nowadays, altmers are in disadvantage in pvp comparing to breton since his racial skill is weaker by X%.

SilverWF

Danksta wrote: »

If they were to get a damage buff I think they should remove the spell resistance buff

I don't think they should or must do that. Altmers and Dunmers still have more damage boost, than just 3% of only one type. So it will allow to spell res remain the same too.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The thread is going to derail if you keep nitpicking posts.

If you would continue to add here unconstructive stuff, like this - yes.
I've only pointed to that guy, that he got wrong the 1st post of this thread.

Osteos

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

SilverWF

Honghua wrote: »

And about the mag regen vs Cost reduction.
As a templar using 4 skills i am already granted with 380-400 magicka saved in few seconds, while altmer with his 9% mag regen gains 120-135 mag every 2 seconds, he needs 4 seconds in total to regain as much magicka as i have spend on my breton withing 2 seconds.
The thing is, as a breton to max out this passive you have to invest into magicka regeneration in rings and amulat, so it will double the effect up in final.
And since we have now CP mastery which reduces the mana regen nowadays, altmers are in disadvantage in pvp comparing to breton since his racial skill is weaker by X%.

You are trying to lie here. Stop it please. Or you are really casting 4 skills in 2 seconds? Maybe, I need to report you?
You can't cast skills such fast - GCD you know. Every 1,5 sec you are casting skills, every 1,5 sec if you have perfect rotation and you are allowed to free casting.
Avg cost of skill is ~3k it saves you 90 mana every 1,5sec or 120 every 2sec. So this 3% cost reduction translates into +120 mag regen.
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.
+10% mag regen equals to +~150 every 2sec
+150 mag regen and you don't need to do anything for that - it is always with you.

And as a breton, you need to invest into Spell damage enchants on the jewelry, to somehow compensate that lack of huge damage boosts from Altmers or Dunmers.

Monsters in the PVE are not using CP passives btw.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

If they were to get a damage buff I think they should remove the spell resistance buff

I don't think they should or must do that. Altmers and Dunmers still have more damage boost, than just 3% of only one type. So it will allow to spell res remain the same too.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The thread is going to derail if you keep nitpicking posts.

If you would continue to add here unconstructive stuff, like this - yes.
I've only pointed to that guy, that he got wrong the 1st post of this thread.

As I said, it's not the only example in this thread about you nitpicking in your replies.

You have selectively edited multiple posts you quoted and replied to one minuscule pasty of their post.

In many of your posted you selectively edit out the more significant pouints players have made and make a a nitpicking comment on what you do keep.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

They can't add anything to Gift of Magus since Altmer also have that passive. But they should certainly boost Magicka Mastery in some way.

But they can make a separate passive for Bretons.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds)
max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

1. What is 3% cost reduce from 3000? 90. Every 1,5 seconds, so it is ~120 (and much lesser for cheaper spells) every 2 sec if you are constantly casting.
What is 10% regen from 1500? 150. Every 2 sec. That is always with you.

2. But Altmers and Dumners has Max Mag and Spell dmg bost at the same time!

Bretons are NOT strong race. Also, seems like you are ignored "OR" word.

Danksta wrote: »

Bretons are fine as they are. They sacrifice a little bit of damage for some tankiness.

Sorry, but with the last changes (boosted penetration CP passives), extra 4k spell resist is nothing. Literally.

And concerning your "calculations" to compare magick cost reduction passive to the increase magika regen passives the base magicka regen should be closer to 850-900 range unless your talking about PvP exclusively.

Since the only reason to even have this conversation is for min/max purposes, no one min/maxing for PvE damage is going to have 1500 regen. It's a reduction in dps and as such reduces the effectiveness of any racial passive that increases damage.

So 10% increased regen is more like 90 magicka every 2 seconds. FYI.

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

In many of your posted you selectively edit out the more significant pouints players have made and make a a nitpicking comment on what you do keep.

Yes, you got it, I'm removing not important (as I think) parts from quotes (or a parts that I'm agree with) and answering only on that what is left. You are revealed me, kek.
I dislike when someone quoiting the huge wall of text and adding only a few words to that - it feels dumb.
Also, noone able to force me to answer on the every single word from the whole quote. And I would never do. You can call the FBI because of that, lol.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So 10% increased regen is more like 90 magicka every 2 seconds. FYI.

Even if like that, you still don't need to do ANYTHING for that, it is ALWAYS with you.
FYI.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

In many of your posted you selectively edit out the more significant pouints players have made and make a a nitpicking comment on what you do keep.

Yes, you got it, I'm removing not important (as I think) parts from quotes and answering only on that what is left. You are revealed me, kek.
I dislike when someone quoiting the huge wall of text and adding only a few words to that - it feels dumb.
Also, noone able to force me to answer on the every single word from the whole quote. And I would never do. You can call the FBI because of that, lol.

You ingore that your suggestion would restrict the use of brettons to Templars and NBs because it isn't important?

Merely to select the magika regen cost reduction point I made and direct me to your misguided information on the subject you made. Which I corrected just a moment ago

Honghua

SilverWF wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

And about the mag regen vs Cost reduction.
As a templar using 4 skills i am already granted with 380-400 magicka saved in few seconds, while altmer with his 9% mag regen gains 120-135 mag every 2 seconds, he needs 4 seconds in total to regain as much magicka as i have spend on my breton withing 2 seconds.
The thing is, as a breton to max out this passive you have to invest into magicka regeneration in rings and amulat, so it will double the effect up in final.
And since we have now CP mastery which reduces the mana regen nowadays, altmers are in disadvantage in pvp comparing to breton since his racial skill is weaker by X%.

You are trying to lie here. Stop it please. Or you are really casting 4 skills in 2 seconds? Maybe, I need to report you?
You can't cast skills fatser than once per 1,5 sec - GCD you know. Every 1,5 sec you are casting skills, every 1,5 sec if you have perfect rotation and you are allowed to free casting.
Avg cost of skill is ~3k it saves you 90 mana every 1,5sec or 120 every 2sec. So this 3% cost reduction translates into +120 mag regen.
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.
+10% mag regen equals to +~150 every 2sec
+150 mag regen and you don't need to do anything for that - it is always with you.

And as a breton, you need to invest into Spell damage enchants on the jewelry, to somehow compensate that lack of huge damage boosts from Altmers or Dunmers.

Monsters in the PVE are not using CP passives btw.

not 10% but 9% thats first.
Second.
magicka regen is affected by champion skill "siphoner" and that alone could reduce the magicka regen by 15%, thats must have for anyone wanting to do serious pvp.
If you compare altmer and someone else both with 1500 base mag regen affected by that skill you will end up having an Altmer with 1389 magicka regen and the other with 1275, making it 114 difference between them, divide it by 2, multiple it by 1.5 and here you go, 85 magicka regen each 1.5 seconds, while breton saves 90 magicka each cast whatever the enemy will do.
Does that looks balanced to you now?

Argah

Honghua wrote: »

Because Breton is tank-magicka oriented race, not damage dealer.
The strongest pvp magicka imho.

I have a level 37 breton healer, is that not what they are best at?