Breton racial passives

Bringer

danno8 wrote: »

That's right, they equip regeneration glyphs because it is much better in most cases.

People equip weapon/spell damage glyphs. If you do need to use some resource management jewelry people use cost reduction over regen.

idk

Bringer wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

That's right, they equip regeneration glyphs because it is much better in most cases.

People equip weapon/spell damage glyphs. If you do need to use some resource management jewelry people use cost reduction over regen.

This is correct. Anyone that is attempting to get the most damage out of their character for PvE is equipping damage glyphs on jewelry and gearing for damage. It is a DPS loss to equip regen glyphs.

Inarre

SilverWF wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

They can't add anything to Gift of Magus since Altmer also have that passive. But they should certainly boost Magicka Mastery in some way.

But they can make a separate passive for Bretons.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds)
max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

1. What is 3% cost reduce from 3000? 90. Every 1,5 seconds, so it is ~120 (and much lesser for cheaper spells) every 2 sec if you are constantly casting.
What is 10% regen from 1500? 150. Every 2 sec. That is always with you.

SilverWF wrote: »

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill
And, there is literally no more expensive skills than 3k for Sorcs (maybe, if spam Streak only, but this is lol argument). You all are happy followed for this number, lol.

Most of Sorcs skills has a cost of 2k-2,5k.
Here is some examples for you, who never played a Sorc (or just bad).
Power Surge - 3100, once per 33 sec
Boundless Storm - 3300, once per 23 sec - Elemental
Blockade of Storms - 2650, once per 8 sec - Elemental
Liquid Lightning - 2880, once per 10 sec - Elemental
Crushing Shock - 2200, spammable - Elemental
Mage's Wrath - 1990, spammable - Elemental
Crystal Fragments - 3300/2, situational - Magic
Hardened Ward - 2880, situational
Haunting Curse - 2450, once per 12 sec - Magic

All of this numbers are taken from Breton Sorc in 5,1,1 setup, with only(!) extra 3% cost reduction racial passive. No seducer or something like that. For Altmer you can increase this numbers by 3%
So, most of skills are much cheaper than 3k. And most of damage are elemental (and someone would still said, that Altmers are not restricted to be used with Sorcs, lol).
And where is that 3% reduction benefits? kek?

Even if agree (that I definitely wouldn't do) that 3% cost reduction is ~ equal to extra 9% mag regen, where is damage boost? Altmers has much more damage (4% is a HUGE number).

Resists is nothing in the current update. Maybe, you didn't logged into the game since update, but they changed Spell Errosion passive - now it gives much more spell penetration than before.
Also, it never was an option against staminers with the phys, poison and disease damage. While more damage output greatly increases your chances to survive in fight. Would you argue here too?

And if you still didn't know, but best tanks are Nords and Imperials, while best healers are Argonians.

You are using a breton sorc as an example. Yes a breton will be inferior at a sorcs job to the altmer. Sorcs dont need spell resistance as much, they have shields. They get along better with regen because their skills are cheap, as you demonstrate above. Altmers have damage dealing passives, which help sorcs in their job to deal damage.

Bretons passives become useful when applied to healers, and i will use the templar as my example. If you look here http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Restoring+Light+Skills all of templars restoring light (healing skills) but one costs 3.4k to 4.5k mana. It is in this situation (where your goal is not to deal damage, but survive and heal, often using mitigation like channeled focus and spamming heals) that breton passives really shine.

Im not about to claim the reduction passive is stronger than the regen passives from altmer, but in situations where you need burst heals (aka spamming heavy cost skills) breton will outperform. Using your format:

1. What is 3% cost reduce from 4500? 132. Every 1,5 seconds, so it is ~202 every 2 sec if you are constantly casting.
What is 9% regen from 1500? 135. Every 2 sec. That is always with you.

So the higher the cost of the spells the more beneficial that passive becomes. The lower cost of spells the better the altmer becomes.

As a breton templar i dont believe bretons are in a place that needs buffing. I think people just need to choose the race that is optimal for their focus. Breton sorcs arent bad even, but if youre looking for high damage you know what race you need.

hmsdragonfly

SilverWF wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Seriously tho, the current passives for the Bretons makes them rather tanky vs other Magicka users in PvP (Spell Resistance) while the Magicka Mastery passive really shines when using some of the more costly (3k+) skills. Which is why Bretons are great in PvP

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill

Well, you need to survive in PvP. Therefore, survivability/tankiness is an important factor in PvP, not just pure damage.

SilverWF

Tryxus wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill

...
Read the bolded part, since you obv didn't read it before

Have nothing to discuss with you more.

SilverWF

Inarre wrote: »

Skipped wall of text about well known for me healer's life.

I can assure you, that not extra Mag regen, nor extra Mag damage wouldn't ruin your healer build.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Well, you need to survive in PvP. Therefore, survivability/tankiness is an important factor in PvP, not just pure damage.

A man above already posted, that you have another options to survive.
And, really, extra 4k spell(!) resists would not save you. Not at all. How many times I need to repeat this? Can you understand it by yourself? If can't - go to Cyrodiil.
If it is free extra resists - then it's ok. Like defending resto staff at back bar.
But if it has traded of extra damage or regen - then it is sucks
.

hmsdragonfly

SilverWF wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

Skipped wall of text about well known for me healer's life.

I can assure you, that not extra Mag regen, nor extra Mag damage wouldn't ruin your healer build.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Well, you need to survive in PvP. Therefore, survivability/tankiness is an important factor in PvP, not just pure damage.

A man above already posted, that you have another options to survive.
And, really, extra 4k spell(!) resists would not save you. Not at all. How many times I need to repeat this? Can you understand it by yourself? If can't - go to Cyrodiil.
If it is free extra resists - then it's ok. Like defending resto staff at back bar.
But if it has traded of extra damage or regen - then it is sucks
.

lol dude, why the toxicity? Did I offend you in some way?
4% bonus to elemental damage would not kill people for you either. Many top-tier PvP magplars are Breton. If you are a Magplar, your only elemental damage is Sun Fire. Jabs is magic damage. Jesus beam is magic damage. Both of your main damage sources aren't boosted by the passive. On the other hand, Magplars are so tanky, they can take a lot of damage, and the spell resist bonus fits right into that playstyle.

SilverWF

I have an really cool idea. There can be even 3rd option!
Passive Spell Resistance turns into Resistant passive: Increases Spell Resistance by 1320 / 2640 / 3960 and Critical Resistance by 500 / 1000 / 1500

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

lol dude, why the toxicity? Did I offend you in some way?
4% bonus to elemental damage would not kill people for you either. Many top-tier PvP magplars are Breton. If you are a Magplar, your only elemental damage is Sun Fire. Jabs is magic damage. Jesus beam is magic damage. Both of your main damage sources aren't boosted by the passive. On the other hand, Magplars are so tanky, they can take a lot of damage, and the spell resist bonus fits right into that playstyle.

There was no any toxity.
Why you against buffing Breton's passives?

The_Red_Viper

Yes let's buff Bretons so Argonians become even more irrelevant.

Tryxus

SilverWF wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill

...
Read the bolded part, since you obv didn't read it before

Have nothing to discuss with you more.

Dunno what's up with the hostility tbh: I said my point, you confirmed what I said and then challenged me to argue with you. Hence the logical replay.

Anyways, I stick with everything I said: Bretons make great healers and Magicka Tanks (think NB Sap Tank and now Warden Tank) while still remaining a solid choice for PvP.

Good day

makreth

hmsdragonfly

SilverWF wrote: »

There was no any toxity.
Why you against buffing Breton's passives?

I am not against buffing anything. I just pointed out something you said that was incorrect.

Since you changed the subject, you agree with me and my previous point, yes?

Victoria_Marquis

I'm playing a Breton as a Warden being that I'm tired of always having to play an Altmer for the best mage classes. As a Warden thier spills have nothing that the Altmer passives boost. "Save for the winter grasp ice tree line" Altmer any gives bonuses for fire, ice, and lightning.... Wardens do Nature spells, and is not covered under the Altmer passives.

Breton gives a small spell cost reduction, and speeds up the leveling in light armor where you can get those spell bonuses​ for magic faster....

Also again tired of the ugly Altmer, I can make a much prettier Breton, with a cute laugh, and fire red hair,... The Altmer only get white, blonde, or poop brown options.

Styles over function these days I guess lol....

Bigevilpeter

They have magika cost reduction which is not as good as magika regen for altmers, but became much more useful after cp changes. Also Since healers dont need the extra damage altemers have the spell resistance is more useful so bretons are better healers imo. You can't buff them more without making the the best magika race.

SilverWF

Noone against buffing since my last post here. Nice.

Juhasow

Honghua wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

And about the mag regen vs Cost reduction.
As a templar using 4 skills i am already granted with 380-400 magicka saved in few seconds, while altmer with his 9% mag regen gains 120-135 mag every 2 seconds, he needs 4 seconds in total to regain as much magicka as i have spend on my breton withing 2 seconds.
The thing is, as a breton to max out this passive you have to invest into magicka regeneration in rings and amulat, so it will double the effect up in final.
And since we have now CP mastery which reduces the mana regen nowadays, altmers are in disadvantage in pvp comparing to breton since his racial skill is weaker by X%.

You are trying to lie here. Stop it please. Or you are really casting 4 skills in 2 seconds? Maybe, I need to report you?
You can't cast skills fatser than once per 1,5 sec - GCD you know. Every 1,5 sec you are casting skills, every 1,5 sec if you have perfect rotation and you are allowed to free casting.
Avg cost of skill is ~3k it saves you 90 mana every 1,5sec or 120 every 2sec. So this 3% cost reduction translates into +120 mag regen.
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.
+10% mag regen equals to +~150 every 2sec
+150 mag regen and you don't need to do anything for that - it is always with you.

And as a breton, you need to invest into Spell damage enchants on the jewelry, to somehow compensate that lack of huge damage boosts from Altmers or Dunmers.

Monsters in the PVE are not using CP passives btw.

not 10% but 9% thats first.
Second.
magicka regen is affected by champion skill "siphoner" and that alone could reduce the magicka regen by 15%, thats must have for anyone wanting to do serious pvp.
If you compare altmer and someone else both with 1500 base mag regen affected by that skill you will end up having an Altmer with 1389 magicka regen and the other with 1275, making it 114 difference between them, divide it by 2, multiple it by 1.5 and here you go, 85 magicka regen each 1.5 seconds, while breton saves 90 magicka each cast whatever the enemy will do.
Does that looks balanced to you now?

1st someone would have to spend 100 cp's into that tree which noone sane does.
2nd yes You can reduce enemie regen by up to 15% with cp's which can be used only in cp's campaign or increase enemie magicka costs by 30% with poisons that everyone can use everywhere.

That doesnt look ballanced.

Juhasow

The_Red_Viper wrote: »

Yes let's buff Bretons so Argonians become even more irrelevant.

Argonian is very good race for tanking and healing atm. 9% hp in new max hp meta and huge resource return after using potion 4,6k each resource which is like having 200 additional regen of all resources. For healers 9% more hp allows to run 6 or 7 light and dont give any additional points or enchants to hp to keep their health on decent amount. 5% healing done and recived is also nice for tanks and healers same like 3% max magicka. Even poison and disease dmg reduction is usefull sine there is lot poison dmg in new trial. Argonian is not DPS race but definietly a way to go for healers and tanks.

SilverWF

Argonians better to be healers. They have huge self heal - 10% more than other races and boost to HP. All of this helps them to survive better in the any situations. And the only race with heal output boost. What about cost reduction? Seducer+Worm I wear at my argonian-healer and has no problem.

Nords are best for tanks, because raw dmg reduction is always better than any number of resists. My nord-tank has overcapped spell res and capped phys res even without reinforced shield!

Added more clarification to the points in the 1st post
.

Magıc

Juhasow wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

And about the mag regen vs Cost reduction.
As a templar using 4 skills i am already granted with 380-400 magicka saved in few seconds, while altmer with his 9% mag regen gains 120-135 mag every 2 seconds, he needs 4 seconds in total to regain as much magicka as i have spend on my breton withing 2 seconds.
The thing is, as a breton to max out this passive you have to invest into magicka regeneration in rings and amulat, so it will double the effect up in final.
And since we have now CP mastery which reduces the mana regen nowadays, altmers are in disadvantage in pvp comparing to breton since his racial skill is weaker by X%.

You are trying to lie here. Stop it please. Or you are really casting 4 skills in 2 seconds? Maybe, I need to report you?
You can't cast skills fatser than once per 1,5 sec - GCD you know. Every 1,5 sec you are casting skills, every 1,5 sec if you have perfect rotation and you are allowed to free casting.
Avg cost of skill is ~3k it saves you 90 mana every 1,5sec or 120 every 2sec. So this 3% cost reduction translates into +120 mag regen.
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.
+10% mag regen equals to +~150 every 2sec
+150 mag regen and you don't need to do anything for that - it is always with you.

And as a breton, you need to invest into Spell damage enchants on the jewelry, to somehow compensate that lack of huge damage boosts from Altmers or Dunmers.

Monsters in the PVE are not using CP passives btw.

not 10% but 9% thats first.
Second.
magicka regen is affected by champion skill "siphoner" and that alone could reduce the magicka regen by 15%, thats must have for anyone wanting to do serious pvp.
If you compare altmer and someone else both with 1500 base mag regen affected by that skill you will end up having an Altmer with 1389 magicka regen and the other with 1275, making it 114 difference between them, divide it by 2, multiple it by 1.5 and here you go, 85 magicka regen each 1.5 seconds, while breton saves 90 magicka each cast whatever the enemy will do.
Does that looks balanced to you now?

1st someone would have to spend 100 cp's into that tree which noone sane does.
2nd yes You can reduce enemie regen by up to 15% with cp's which can be used only in cp's campaign or increase enemie magicka costs by 30% with poisons that everyone can use everywhere.

That doesnt look ballanced.

Don't forget that siphoner stacks. More than 1 person has the cp, it adds up. You can literally have no regen if you're attacked by enough people. Oh, and of course everyone runs cost poisons so there is that too.

SilverWF

Magıc wrote: »

Don't forget that siphoner stacks. More than 1 person has the cp, it adds up. You can literally have no regen if you're attacked by enough people. Oh, and of course everyone runs cost poisons so there is that too.

I never seen a clarification about stacking that CP from ZOS, do you?
I'm pretty sure, that it is not stacking at all.
And, similar to poisons, only strongest one in effect at the taken moment of time.
Anyway, it is a case against tanks only. Everyone else would disappear in seconds (stealth, streak, or out of LOS) or die in seconds and this debuff wouldn't have enough time to make a damage really.

idk

danno8 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a while ago, increasing just regen or just cost reduction was a bad idea due to diminishing returns. It was better to balance the two somewhat.

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, if this is still true, Breton is win. Perhaps not so much for PvE DPS other than for trials.

There are no diminishing returns on regeneration, only on cost reduction.

In fact regeneration has increasing returns the more you stack.

To the point Wreuntzylla was quoting.

Patch 2.5.5 patch notes reduced the effectiveness of stacking magicka recover % increases.

Fixed an issue where percentage bonuses to the same type of stat (Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka, etc.) would stack multiplicatively rather than additively. This will result in some stats changing slightly (generally going down).

This effects Arcanist CP as well, though there is no actual diminishing returns on either type of mentioned since both stac

SilverWF wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Don't forget that siphoner stacks. More than 1 person has the cp, it adds up. You can literally have no regen if you're attacked by enough people. Oh, and of course everyone runs cost poisons so there is that too.

I never seen a clarification about stacking that CP from ZOS, do you?
I'm pretty sure, that it is not stacking at all.
And, similar to poisons, only strongest one in effect at the taken moment of time.
Anyway, it is a case against tanks only. Everyone else would disappear in seconds (stealth, streak, or out of LOS) or die in seconds and this debuff wouldn't have enough time to make a damage really.

The tooltip is fairly clearly worded. One cannot say it is not stacking, or that it is stacking as would be expected based on the tooltip, without testing it.

SilverWF

I've created a poll about it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351820/changing-breton-racial-passives

Close this thread please.

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