Breton racial passives

Danksta

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

Is that so? Show me where I ever asked for advice on which race I should make a character.

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

You ingore that your suggestion would restrict the use of brettons to Templars and NBs because it isn't important?

Not, it wouldn't.
Or why you didn't care, that Altmers are restricted for Sorcs and Dunmers - for DKs?
Double dealing right?
Make sure you have a solid points before arguing with me.

Honghua wrote: »

while breton saves 90 magicka each cast

You are continue tricking here, sad.
So I feel, that you need to read it again, please do:
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.

Upd:
All of that stuff, not "one of"
Also, the only Lich set would laugh at your points. Only one damn very popular set.
For making life bad I would rather use Mag poisons - another added mag regen tho...
And while Altmer can break LOS and got some regen, Breton are forced to continue casting to maintain his cost reduction advantage = waste even more mag.
.

Zardayne

I think all of the racials should be removed or toned way done. There's already so much pigeon holing in ESO and now you can't even enjoy to change over to mag/stam without having to drop $30 for a race change so you're not gimping yourself. I mean look at Redguard passives..they're ridiculous when compared to any others for stam builds...same for altmer and mag builds.

Acrolas

Do you remember when PVPers were *** rage threads because Bretons got a 1% increase to AP gain?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

SilverWF

Acrolas wrote: »

Do you remember when PVPers were *** rage threads because Bretons got a 1% increase to AP gain?.

Thank God I was out of game that time.

Then, Imperials were promoted to the P2W coz increased gold gain?

QuebraRegra

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Well, reduce magicka costs is just better than the magicka regen from altmers already (unless very specific builds), and max mag passive is a form of more damage too, so i'll say no. Bretons are a strong race.

yeah, I thought reduced cost was better than regen, particularly in longer fights?

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

You ingore that your suggestion would restrict the use of brettons to Templars and NBs because it isn't important?

Not, it wouldn't.
Or why you didn't care, that Altmers are restricted for Sorcs and Dunmers - for DKs?
Double dealing right?
Make sure you have a solid points before arguing with me.

Honghua wrote: »

while breton saves 90 magicka each cast

You are continue tricking here, sad.
So I feel, that you need to read it again, please do:
+120 mag regen only if: you are constantly casting, you are allowed to free cast, your rotation is perfect, your avg cost of skills is 3k.

Upd:
All of that stuff, not "one of"
Also, the only Lich set would laugh at your points. Only one damn very popular set.
For making life bad I would rather use Mag poisons - another added mag regen tho...
And while Altmer can break LOS and got some regen, Breton are forced to continue casting to maintain his cost reduction advantage = waste even more mag.
.

Lol. No.

Pre U14 dunmers were BiS for everything except Sorcs. High Elfs for Sorcs and for the other classes when slightly better sustain was desired at a small cost of damage done. Brettons for those wanting better sustain.

It's been as simple as that. Every PvE build uses elemental damage.

One really needs to look at the entire picture for discussions like this and a case in point, your minds looking past

You also seem to be looking past two posts that shed light on your comparison of the brettons cost reduction vs the high elf magika regen boost, one from a PvE perspective and the other from PvP.

And still selectively editing out what you quote in a manner that appears more for convenience. Seems as though your attempting to keep the conversation only to the points you care to talk about rather than all the points that are directly involved with your suggestion.

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Every PvE build uses elemental damage

Not. Every DD-build can use elemental damage. It's a different.
And some builds are focused on elemental damage, like mag-sorc and mag-DK.
So, nothing would be bad if Bretons would get very little mag dmg boost, to help heavily focused on mag damage mag-Templar and mag-NB. Not restriction still tho.

If you dislike my quoting manner, you can leave, I wouldn't cry, I promise.

RinaldoGandolphi

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

@Osteos

Which would round out our beloved Bretons perfect.

Also, folks in this thread are forgetting that Bretons are the only class in the game to have one of their racials completely canceled out and made useless by a weapon trait (Sharpened which gives 5000+ spell pen negating The Breton spell resist passive entirely) not other race can have a 3 skill point passive completely cancel by a weapon trait

Danksta

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

@Osteos

Which would round out our beloved Bretons perfect.

Also, folks in this thread are forgetting that Bretons are the only class in the game to have one of their racials completely canceled out and made useless by a weapon trait (Sharpened which gives 5000+ spell pen negating The Breton spell resist passive entirely) not other race can have a 3 skill point passive completely cancel by a weapon trait

Actually Bretons soften the blow from sharpened weapons by over 50%.

makreth

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

@Osteos

Which would round out our beloved Bretons perfect.

Also, folks in this thread are forgetting that Bretons are the only class in the game to have one of their racials completely canceled out and made useless by a weapon trait (Sharpened which gives 5000+ spell pen negating The Breton spell resist passive entirely) not other race can have a 3 skill point passive completely cancel by a weapon trait

But those other races are at disadvantage already comparing the resists so they too gain that resistance penetrated unless its reached 0 which is working as intented.

*Khajiit also get some of their crit dmg (their crit chance passive) neglected if you go by that route. Not the perfect example but makes the racial passive a lot less significant than it would be.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Every PvE build uses elemental damage

Not. Every DD-build can use elemental damage. It's a different.
And some builds are focused on elemental damage, like mag-sorc and mag-DK.
So, nothing would be bad if Bretons would get very little mag dmg boost, to help heavily focused on mag damage mag-Templar and mag-NB. Not restriction still tho.

If you dislike my quoting manner, you can leave, I wouldn't cry, I promise.

If we are talking about min/max which is the only reason to have this discussion then the build will have elemental damage.

If we are not talking about min max any of the three classes will work fine.

Your comment here may explain your inaccurate information and why your selective one what you quote and discuss since the rest is kinda inconvenient for you to touch upon. Understandable.

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If we are talking about min/max which is the only reason to have this discussion then the build will have elemental damage.

I dunno what you are talking about.
You still think, that "having 1 elemental not main skill" is equals to "a half or more of your skills are elemental"
You still think, that adding mag dmg boost would restrict Bretons to be used with Templars and NB only and refusing that Altmers are restricted to Sorcs and Dunmers to DKs.
My comments here are explain my points only, while yours is absolutely unconstructive and full of pointless tries to pickering me.
Please, continue, I'm interested already.

me_ming

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't know what literally means or if you just think this just a PvP game...

You can edit quotes, you know that right?
Noone cares about PVE, where you have tank and healer.
Also, if you are care of PVE only, so you must agree with all changes - what you afraid for? That pesky "OP" Bretons would never hit you in the PVE, right?

I never said I don't PvP, I do both. I also never said that Bretons were OP, but just because they aren't OP doesn't mean they need a buff. Also Breton happens to be a decent race for healing so that tankiness comes in handy then. I like my added spell resistance on my Breton Templar for vMA as well, where I don't have a tank and healer. A lot of assumptions in there. You do know what they say about making assumption, right?

I'm not trying to make OP from Bretons (just to bring them a bit closer to the top-mag races), nor remove their spell resist
What you are arguing here?

there is no need to change Breton passives. Spell resist and Reduction cost is better than what you are suggesting. If you want to do more dmg re-roll to an altmer or dunmer. Bretons do NOT need dmg boosts, stop making everything in this game everything about damage.

SilverWF

me_ming wrote: »

Spell resist and Reduction cost is better than what you are suggesting

Exuse me, but "Spell resist and Reduction cost" is better than "Spell resist and Reduction cost and (Mag dmg boost or Mag regen)"?
Seriously?

This game is already about damage, especially, in the Morrowind update. Wanna blame someone for that? Blame ZOS then, not me
.

Osteos

Danksta wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

Is that so? Show me where I ever asked for advice on which race I should make a character.

Got a guilty conscience?

Do a forum search for Best Race for Magicka- then read the responses. Most people put Breton on the bottom of the list and consider it the worst choice. That is until someone makes a thread asking for Breton racial passive to be improved and then suddenly Bretons are fine...The hypocrites know who they are.

Wreuntzylla

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a while ago, increasing just regen or just cost reduction was a bad idea due to diminishing returns. It was better to balance the two somewhat.

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, if this is still true, Breton is win. Perhaps not so much for PvE DPS other than for trials.

SilverWF

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, Breton is win.

Not and here is a plenty calculations about that.
Also, based on your words (correct me if I'm wrong) you are not playing ESO atm. Why you are arguing here then?

Bringer

I think the threads been sidetracked. I dont agree with the OPs math, and i think 3% cost reduction is more valuable than 10% regen bonus, however it is clear that the more resource-focused races are less often used, so there is clearly room to improve them all, bosmer is never recommended for anything except pvp bow ganker and that was only because auto-crit from stealth. I see bretons sometimes recommended for templar healers but even then only as an option.

While these less popular races can work just fine, the fact that they are always passed over when it comes to recommendations means there is a problem with them and they should be buffed in some way.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If we are talking about min/max which is the only reason to have this discussion then the build will have elemental damage.

I dunno what you are talking about.
You still think, that "having 1 elemental not main skill" is equals to "a half or more of your skills are elemental"
You still think, that adding mag dmg boost would restrict Bretons to be used with Templars and NB only and refusing that Altmers are restricted to Sorcs and Dunmers to DKs.
My comments here are explain my points only, while yours is absolutely unconstructive and full of pointless tries to pickering me.
Please, continue, I'm interested already.

Lol. Selectively quote then makes up stuff as though I said it? Lol.

If your going to be that absurd your replies then I'll let this go. lol

To be clear to anyone else that reads this post, I have certainly never said having one elemental damage skill on a bar was equal to half or more of my damage. I've never implied if.

The only reasons anyone would attempt to put words into someone's mouth would be either not reading much of what is entered or skew and control the conversation which may work well with the selective quoting that's happening here.

SilverWF

Bringer wrote: »

bosmer is never recommended for anything except pvp bow ganker

I dunno where u was last month, but this is already best stam-DD race.
Yes, because of crazy regen amount and max stam.

Wreuntzylla

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, Breton is win.

Not and here is a plenty calculations about that.
Also, based on your words (correct me if I'm wrong) you are not playing ESO atm. Why you are arguing here then?

You are wrong.

As to plenty of calculations, post them up. Or perhaps @Asayre could weigh in?

SilverWF

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, Breton is win.

Not and here is a plenty calculations about that.
Also, based on your words (correct me if I'm wrong) you are not playing ESO atm. Why you are arguing here then?

You are wrong.

As to plenty of calculations, post them up. Or perhaps @Asayre could weigh in?

I am right

it is already posted. Or you are too 'special' to find it on the 2 (TWO, Karl) pages?

Wreuntzylla

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, Breton is win.

Not and here is a plenty calculations about that.
Also, based on your words (correct me if I'm wrong) you are not playing ESO atm. Why you are arguing here then?

You are wrong.

As to plenty of calculations, post them up. Or perhaps @Asayre could weigh in?

I am right

it is already posted. Or you are too 'special' to find it on the 2 (TWO, Karl) pages?

You instructed me to correct you if you were wrong. I corrected you. Then you say you are right. Although I am fairly sure you don't know my activity level in game (I am logged in as I write this). I'm not sure what your issues are, but you should probably find help.

As to your calculations. they are straight tooltip x time. I pointed out that diminishing returns have been involved in the past. So let me make it clear. Your linear calculations are worthless. It is well known on these forums and has been shown repeatedly that tooltips mean nothing in this game. You must take empirical evidence and determine the equation involved.

I reference @Asayre because he not only achieves substantially the same results as I do, in a couple of cases he identified a factor that I just had down as a fudge factor.

idk

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, Breton is win.

Not and here is a plenty calculations about that.
Also, based on your words (correct me if I'm wrong) you are not playing ESO atm. Why you are arguing here then?

You are wrong.

As to plenty of calculations, post them up. Or perhaps @Asayre could weigh in?

I am right

it is already posted. Or you are too 'special' to find it on the 2 (TWO, Karl) pages?

You instructed me to correct you if you were wrong. I corrected you. Then you say you are right. Although I am fairly sure you don't know my activity level in game (I am logged in as I write this). I'm not sure what your issues are, but you should probably find help.

As to your calculations. they are straight tooltip x time. I pointed out that diminishing returns have been involved in the past. So let me make it clear. Your linear calculations are worthless. It is well known on these forums and has been shown repeatedly that tooltips mean nothing in this game. You must take empirical evidence and determine the equation involved.

I reference @Asayre because he not only achieves substantially the same results as I do, in a couple of cases he identified a factor that I just had down as a fudge factor.

He is correct.

kojou

SilverWF wrote: »

Bretons are mentioned to be magicka class, probably DD (along with Altmers and Dunmers), but they do not have mag regen, nor spell damage boost.
So, what if:

Add Mag regen to Gift of Magnus passive: Increases Max Magicka by 4/7/10% and Magicka regen by 4/7/10%

OR (this is OR, not AND, please read carefully)

Add Mag damage boost to Magicka Mastery passive: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 1/2/3% and increases your Magic damage by 1/2/3%
(Note: Magic damage - is a separate type of spell damage, like Fire, Ice etc.)

What do you think?
.

I agree with you that Bretons are a little under powered for DPS, but more because of the trade off for spell resist.

The 3% cost reduction is essentially equivalent to the Altmer Regen passive while in active combat.The disadvantage here is that an Altmer will regain magic faster during a rest phase (while not casting skills or doing a heavy attack).

If I were in charge of buffing Bretons I would probably give them 3% more magic return on a Heavy Attack to balance them out with Altmers a little better.

I wouldn't want to exchange anything they have now for anything else, because players that selected Breton over Altmer should have done so knowing what they were trading off.

Bringer

SilverWF wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

bosmer is never recommended for anything except pvp bow ganker

I dunno where u was last month, but this is already best stam-DD race.
Yes, because of crazy regen amount and max stam.

No.

21% recovery is only a ~12% increase over everyone else using standard setups.
Also heavy attack weaving recovers a significant portion of your overall resource. Redgard out-recovers and out-stam bonuses bosmer.

kojou

Bringer wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

bosmer is never recommended for anything except pvp bow ganker

I dunno where u was last month, but this is already best stam-DD race.
Yes, because of crazy regen amount and max stam.

No.

21% recovery is only a ~12% increase over everyone else using standard setups.
Also heavy attack weaving recovers a significant portion of your overall resource. Redgard out-recovers and out-stam bonuses bosmer.

Female Bosmers are cuter though.

Honghua

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

@Osteos

Which would round out our beloved Bretons perfect.

Also, folks in this thread are forgetting that Bretons are the only class in the game to have one of their racials completely canceled out and made useless by a weapon trait (Sharpened which gives 5000+ spell pen negating The Breton spell resist passive entirely) not other race can have a 3 skill point passive completely cancel by a weapon trait

The difference will always be 6% on magic damage, if you will hit the breton or someone else with magicka spell.
Resistance reductions are all flat, these does not affect breton resistance skill at all in the meaning of reducing its amount.
While altmer magicka regen does, since we have champion mastery that reduces regen by certain % making altmer skill also weaker by %.
Plus not everyone is dealing elemental damage, templars does only on few skills, so it is obvious they should take breton instead.

SilverWF

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

You instructed me to correct you if you were wrong. I corrected you.

I'm right
If you are really playing this game, so you would know about CP changes.
Or you are roleplayer and has no care about any numbers. About this changes too, right? Why you are posting here then? Just a postcounting?

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

He is correct.

I know, thanks

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't want to exchange anything they have now for anything else

Noone asking for exchanges.
Also, 3% more regen from HA? No, thanks. Even 10% more.
About Altmers... Who asked Khajiits before they nerfed to the dust Carnage passive? Did they got free race respec?
And I'm not asking for nerf, but for a little buffs.

Bringer wrote: »

21% recovery is only a ~12% increase over everyone else using standard setups.

Yes, and this is HUGE.

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Female Bosmers are cuter though.

Arguably

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Female Bosmers are cuter though.

Arguably