Breton racial passives

luen79rwb17_ESO

I've come to accept that Bretons are ment to be "BiS" for the healer, PvP and magicka tanking roles.

But they also have a better look so

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

You instructed me to correct you if you were wrong. I corrected you.

I'm right
If you are really playing this game, so you would know about CP changes.
Or you are roleplayer and has no care about any numbers. About this changes too, right? Why you are posting here then? Just a postcounting?

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

He is correct.

I know, thanks

So. The guy who shows significany more knowledge about this game, and especially the math behind it, than you have and you've suggested he is a role played and doesn't know much about the numbers in this game.

The. You quote me saying he is right, essentially saying your wrong again, and you agree.

Lol.

Danksta

Osteos wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

Is that so? Show me where I ever asked for advice on which race I should make a character.

Got a guilty conscience?

Do a forum search for Best Race for Magicka- then read the responses. Most people put Breton on the bottom of the list and consider it the worst choice. That is until someone makes a thread asking for Breton racial passive to be improved and then suddenly Bretons are fine...The hypocrites know who they are.

Well you said "Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka....". I said they were fine so I would be part of "everyone", but I've never asked for advice on choosing a race, ever. Not on the forums or anywhere. But now you've changed it from "everyone" to "most people" and the next time it's brought up it'll be some people and so on. My point was you were over-exaggerating to make your point, and in the process was saying I contradicted myself, but I didn't. So I called BS.

Tryxus

I think someone is seriously underestimating the capabilities of the most glorious race in all of Tamriel #bretonmasterrace

Seriously tho, the current passives for the Bretons makes them rather tanky vs other Magicka users in PvP (Spell Resistance) while the Magicka Mastery passive really shines when using some of the more costly (3k+) skills. Which is why Bretons are great in PvP and make excellent Magicka tanks and healers as well.

I don't think they need any form of Damage increase at all: it wouldn't fit, and it's not always about doing damage in this game. If anything, they could do with an increase in the Spell Reduction % from Magicka Mastery

SilverWF

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So. The guy who shows significany more knowledge about this game

You are messed up with quotes, but it's ok.
More knowledge but not about CP changes that was a thread of the last month on the whole forum. Nice try, but you are failed. Again.
Still not tired from the dirt on your face? Np.
Just wonder: when you would post here even a bit constructive post?

Shadow_Viper_vX

Breton racial passives are fine as is, no change is needed

This is a non-issue

There are much more important things for ZOS to focus their attention on, like performance/lag, group/dungeon finder, broken trials, etc.

SilverWF

Tryxus wrote: »

Seriously tho, the current passives for the Bretons makes them rather tanky vs other Magicka users in PvP (Spell Resistance) while the Magicka Mastery passive really shines when using some of the more costly (3k+) skills. Which is why Bretons are great in PvP

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill
And, there is literally no more expensive skills than 3k for Sorcs (maybe, if spam Streak only, but this is lol argument). You all are happy followed for this number, lol.

Most of Sorcs skills has a cost of 2k-2,5k.
Here is some examples for you, who never played a Sorc (or just bad).
Power Surge - 3100, once per 33 sec
Boundless Storm - 3300, once per 23 sec - Elemental
Blockade of Storms - 2650, once per 8 sec - Elemental
Liquid Lightning - 2880, once per 10 sec - Elemental
Crushing Shock - 2200, spammable - Elemental
Mage's Wrath - 1990, spammable - Elemental
Crystal Fragments - 3300/2, situational - Magic
Hardened Ward - 2880, situational
Haunting Curse - 2450, once per 12 sec - Magic

All of this numbers are taken from Breton Sorc in 5,1,1 setup, with only(!) extra 3% cost reduction racial passive. No seducer or something like that. For Altmer you can increase this numbers by 3%
So, most of skills are much cheaper than 3k. And most of damage are elemental (and someone would still said, that Altmers are not restricted to be used with Sorcs, lol).
And where is that 3% reduction benefits? kek?

Even if agree (that I definitely wouldn't do) that 3% cost reduction is ~ equal to extra 9% mag regen, where is damage boost? Altmers has much more damage (4% is a HUGE number).

Resists is nothing in the current update. Maybe, you didn't logged into the game since update, but they changed Spell Errosion passive - now it gives much more spell penetration than before.
Also, it never was an option against staminers with the phys, poison and disease damage. While more damage output greatly increases your chances to survive in fight. Would you argue here too?

And if you still didn't know, but best tanks are Nords and Imperials, while best healers are Argonians.

Bringer

SilverWF wrote: »

Yes, and this is HUGE.

It really isnt. If you look at the overall resource intake it provides its like 5% of my total, and thats while solo, and i dont even have the CP passive maxed yet, and im not a vampire, while grouped it would be less.

So a 10% would be ~2.5%.

Granted you could probably build for a high recovery setup with certain sets in which case it would provide more, my dps would drop however, and i can pretty much sustain myself with heavy attack weaving and the regen i have.

+Regen % passives are the worst passive to be honest.

Inarre

PS << breton

starkerealm

Osteos wrote: »

I would like to see a 3% bonus to magicka damage added to Bretons.

Its funny because everyone saying that Bretons are fine are the very same people in a thread poll asking "what race should I make my magicka (----)" would say Altmer or maybe Dunmer but definitely not Bretons are the weakest magicka class.

It's funny because, every time someone asks, "hey, what race should I play for my Magicka build," I come in and say, "Breton." There are a lot of players who've crunched the numbers and will still suggest picking Bretons as your go to magicka race, even for DPS. But, especially for support roles.

Bringer

Breton female voice A is the best magicka race female voice set.

danno8

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a while ago, increasing just regen or just cost reduction was a bad idea due to diminishing returns. It was better to balance the two somewhat.

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, if this is still true, Breton is win. Perhaps not so much for PvE DPS other than for trials.

There are no diminishing returns on regeneration, only on cost reduction.

In fact regeneration has increasing returns the more you stack.

starkerealm

danno8 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a while ago, increasing just regen or just cost reduction was a bad idea due to diminishing returns. It was better to balance the two somewhat.

Since they removed cost reduction from the CP tree, if this is still true, Breton is win. Perhaps not so much for PvE DPS other than for trials.

There are no diminishing returns on regeneration, only on cost reduction.

In fact regeneration has increasing returns the more you stack.

This may, in fact, be in reference to the Champion stars. Those have severe diminishing returns. On regeneration, you reach 13% at 54, and investing the next 46 stars into the tree only nets you another 2%. I don't remember the break points from before Morrowind off hand (just no reason to keep that in my head), but it was a similar situation, where if you went over about 70 or 80, you weren't seeing any real value for your points. Didn't stop some of the streamers from saying, "oh, yeah, put ALL your points in this star," but still.

MLGProPlayer

Bretons aren't a DD race. They are the optimal healer race.

MLGProPlayer

Argah wrote: »

Honghua wrote: »

Because Breton is tank-magicka oriented race, not damage dealer.
The strongest pvp magicka imho.

I have a level 37 breton healer, is that not what they are best at?

Yes, healer is their best role.

Bringer

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

SilverWF

Bringer wrote: »

Breton female voice A is the best magicka race female voice set.

I hope you know, that there is a same voices fro most races, right?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bretons aren't a DD race. They are the optimal healer race.

And that's why they have healing passives... oh, wait!
.

starkerealm

Bringer wrote: »

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

There does seem to have been an order of operations bug introduced with Morrowind, though. Where your % modifiers get applied before your additive modifiers. Though, that may just be with executes.

Aliyavana

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

bosmer is never recommended for anything except pvp bow ganker

I dunno where u was last month, but this is already best stam-DD race.
Yes, because of crazy regen amount and max stam.

No.

21% recovery is only a ~12% increase over everyone else using standard setups.
Also heavy attack weaving recovers a significant portion of your overall resource. Redgard out-recovers and out-stam bonuses bosmer.

Female Bosmers are cuter though.

Hey leave my wifeys alone

Magıc

You realise cost reduction beats the magicka recovery passive of Altmer unless running high regen builds (lich is the only set that makes Altmer better than Breton sustain wise).

I'd happily trade the spell resistance for 4% MAGIC damage though.

MLGProPlayer

SilverWF wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

Breton female voice A is the best magicka race female voice set.

I hope you know, that there is a same voices fro most races, right?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Bretons aren't a DD race. They are the optimal healer race.

And that's why they have healing passives... oh, wait!
.

They have the best sustain passives, which makes them the best healer class. Altmer and Argonian are good too.

danno8

Bringer wrote: »

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

The way the game does the calculation for cost reduction is that flat reduction comes first, followed by % reduction. So the more flat reduction you have, the more your % reduction becomes diminished.

This is why equipping a cost reduction glyph never gives the stated 203 on the max level version.

For regeneration though, when you equip a regeneration glyph (flat amount) or consume a drink with a flat regen bonus, it is always bigger than the stated amount. For example the 319 on witchmothers brew actually increases my regeration by 418.

starkerealm

danno8 wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

The way the game does the calculation for cost reduction is that flat reduction comes first, followed by % reduction. So the more flat reduction you have, the more your % reduction becomes diminished.

This is why equipping a cost reduction glyph never gives the stated 203 on the max level version.

Is that still the case? Or did it get derped up with Morrowind?

Magıc

Bringer wrote: »

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

Incorrect. The game takes into accoutnt flat cost reduction first. This in turn makes % cost redcution worse.

Bringer

danno8 wrote: »

The way the game does the calculation for cost reduction is that flat reduction comes first, followed by % reduction. So the more flat reduction you have, the more your % reduction becomes diminished.

This is why equipping a cost reduction glyph never gives the stated 203 on the max level version.

But people generally dont equip cost reduction jewelry, so when looking at cost reduction stacking you are merely adding up %s you get from different sources, and thats straight additive and the more you get the more each additional % effectively does.

SilverWF wrote: »

I hope you know, that there is a same voices fro most races, right?

not between breton, bosmer, dunmer, and altmer, as i have made a character of every single voice set of these races and logged in game and ran around/emoted/attack with them.

danno8

Bringer wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

The way the game does the calculation for cost reduction is that flat reduction comes first, followed by % reduction. So the more flat reduction you have, the more your % reduction becomes diminished.

This is why equipping a cost reduction glyph never gives the stated 203 on the max level version.

But people generally dont equip cost reduction jewelry, so when looking at cost reduction stacking you are merely adding up %s you get from different sources, and thats straight additive and the more you get the more each additional % effectively does.

That's right, they equip regeneration glyphs because it is much better in most cases.

danno8

starkerealm wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Bringer wrote: »

I cant find anything stating there are diminishing returns on cost reduction, just people getting confused over how the game handles flat cost reduction and % cost reduction stacking.

Everything i find says its all just additive, in which case the more % cost reduction you have, the more relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same, and the more % regen you have, the less relative effect each extra % gives you, and the absolute effect stays the same.

The way the game does the calculation for cost reduction is that flat reduction comes first, followed by % reduction. So the more flat reduction you have, the more your % reduction becomes diminished.

This is why equipping a cost reduction glyph never gives the stated 203 on the max level version.

Is that still the case? Or did it get derped up with Morrowind?

Yah it still does. I get about 180ish.

Tryxus

SilverWF wrote: »

But, you don't need to tank in the PVP - you need to kill

Disagreement 1: In PvP, you don't "need" to kill. There are plenty of healers in Cyrodiil, or ppl who build some tanky characters with good group support

SilverWF wrote: »

And, there is literally no more expensive skills than 3k for Sorcs (maybe, if spam Streak only, but this is lol argument).

Ok, but what about the other classes (DK is a good example)? Weapon skills? Alliance War skills? etc

There are a lot of rather costly skills where the Breton passive is really useful. And like I said: most of them are heals, support skills and so on... but the Cost Reduction is still handy to have for those

SilverWF wrote: »

Even if agree (that I definitely wouldn't do) that 3% cost reduction is ~ equal to extra 9% mag regen, where is damage boost? Altmers has much more damage (4% is a HUGE number).

It's not always about Damage. Altmer (and Dunmer) are better suited for offense, Bretons for defense/healer.

SilverWF wrote: »

Resists is nothing in the current update. Maybe, you didn't logged into the game since update, but they changed Spell Errosion passive - now it gives much more spell penetration than before.
Also, it never was an option against staminers with the phys, poison and disease damage. While more damage output greatly increases your chances to survive in fight. Would you argue here too?

Well, clearly I need to requote myself:

Tryxus wrote: »

Seriously tho, the current passives for the Bretons makes them rather tanky vs other Magicka users in PvP (Spell Resistance)

Read the bolded part, since you obv didn't read it before

SilverWF wrote: »

And if you still didn't know, but best tanks are Nords and Imperials, while best healers are Argonians.

And another disagreement: while Argonian do provide stronger heals, Bretons provide more heals and are equally suited for the role

And now, I bid thee farewell good sir

starkerealm

Tryxus wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Even if agree (that I definitely wouldn't do) that 3% cost reduction is ~ equal to extra 9% mag regen, where is damage boost? Altmers has much more damage (4% is a HUGE number).

It's not always about Damage. Altmer (and Dunmer) are better suited for offense, Bretons for defense/healer.

Ironically, this actually makes Bretons better for highly aggressive playstyles, because you can soak off a hit that will just flat out wax an Altmer or Dunmer.

idk

SilverWF wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So. The guy who shows significany more knowledge about this game

You are messed up with quotes, but it's ok.
More knowledge but not about CP changes that was a thread of the last month on the whole forum. Nice try, but you are failed. Again.
Still not tired from the dirt on your face? Np.
Just wonder: when you would post here even a bit constructive post?

I just realized you are gaslighting.

It is the only explanation because no one could be so far removed from the truth as you have been in this thread. In an extremely clear manner you have shown a significant lack of knowledge of the game with your posts. All while calling those that have demonstrated a strong knowledge of the game as likely an RPer.

You also need to learn how to read English if you are suggesting I got anything in here mixed up. You are the one that is heavily confused. It also explains why you ignore much of the actual information presented, probably because it is more challenging to try to talk to. Typical behavior in these situations.

But thx for the laugh and entertainment. LOL