Heavy attacks resource restore got overbuffed

Rinmaethodain

* Reads thread name

* Finds "PVP" in thread body

Just as expected....

MCBIZZLE300

I say keep the heavy attack buff.

timidobserver

All of the threads complaining about this have one thing in common.

ManDraKE

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

lol, you gotta love this kind of comments. How PvP screwed PvE? PvP balance has been ignored for over 2 years, and screwed over and over again with the PvE meta of "moar DPS every patch because dungeons and trials are not easy enough, and there are still braindead ppl that can't complete vMA". Unlimited resources were a problem both in PvE in PvP, as the Devs said this game have resource management instead of cooldowns, is how the combat is designed. With everyone having unlimited resources without having to invest on sustain and/or learn how to manage their resources, this game is just buttom-spam fest.

I prefer to have the sustain back in the CP, rather than having it on OP heavy attacks that will force everyone to keep running heavy armor.

Sandman929

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

It'd be a shame if ZOS had to change the scripted damage of robot monsters to achieve some sort of balance in the dynamic portion of the game.

akray21

ManDraKE wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

lol, you gotta love this kind of comments. How PvP screwed PvE? PvP balance has been ignored for over 2 years, and screwed over and over again with the PvE meta of "moar DPS every patch because dungeons and trials are not easy enough, and there are still braindead ppl that can't complete vMA". Unlimited resources were a problem both in PvE in PvP, as the Devs said this game have resource management instead of cooldowns, is how the combat is designed. With everyone having unlimited resources without having to invest on sustain and/or learn how to manage their resources, this game is just buttom-spam fest.

I prefer to have the sustain back in the CP, rather than having it on OP heavy attacks that will force everyone to keep running heavy armor.

What about people who enjoy no CP PvP? Screw em, right?

Jawasa

Problem as i see it is if the main sustain comes from heavy attacks pve gets slower (boring) and pvp becomes even more of a zerg fest.

When zerging you can allways stand in the back and use 2 or 3 resto/bow heavys then spam some more rd/wrath/snipe still in 2 full dmg sets.

mandricus

ManDraKE wrote: »

- 30% increase in Morrowind
- 25% increase with Tenacity
- 25% increased with heavy armor

We are back to heavy-armor meta on PvP with this.

if that is true, please consider adjusting just the "Rapid Mending" passive.
Most of PVP is non-cp now, so Tenacity does not matter.
For PvE the increase of resources restored by heavy attacks is just fine, giving players the freedom to play a "light attack" build without having to constantly weave heavy attacks to regain resources (heavy attacks are slow and boring).
As you are afraid that this could lead back to "Heavy Armor" meta in PVP, just fixing the Rapid Mending passive should to the trick, without screwing PvE gamestyle too much (and please consider, PVE Tanks will be affected anyway, if this passive will be adjusted).

Baconlad

Most of pvp is *not* no cp. Most of pvp *is* CP campaigns. Now after players get tired of battlegrounds we will be back to where we are at. TF CP camps will remain the most favored. 120 long "Q" i willingly waited is just to be in that camp, i enjoy CP, as well as most players in here.

As for the sustain problem. Zeni max doesnt care about unlimited sustain, they care about actively trying to get resources back, instead of it being a braindead operation.

They want us to have to heavy attack once in awhile, and would rather that than current gameplay.

I personally have unspecced ALL sustain CP on live, and am using nothing but tenacity and resto heavies, i use five light and max magick food. My sustain still isnt unlimited, and in order for me to get there i have to use orzagas mag regen max health food. With the occasional heavy and drinks and potion i feel that things are accually the way they should be. Even on my heavy armor black rose build with zero cost reduction. I took out one point from constitution in order to get used to the changes, and it feels good.

My point is with just a teeny bit more return on heavy attack, it will be fine. Not overpowered, players will still run out of magick quite fast, now we as players just have to be mindfull of sustain.

Hutch679

Well if the resource from heavy sticks, I'm for sure gonna run 2 damage sets on my sorc instead of lich. Heavy attacks with resto staff will be all you need to sustain.

GallantGuardian

This is great for pve tanks .... I dunno why they didn't just incorporate this in the 1 handed and shield passive that allows us to move faster while in block

Smmokkee

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

What are you talking about ***? They literally made so many changes around pve this patch I want to throw up.

Smmokkee

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

Again wtf is this guy talking about? The overwhelming majority of players are huge noobs that stand around talking to each other in vulkhel guard. The endgame pve scene is in such shambles right now. Vet trials are broken.. The pinnacle of endgame pve barely even functions on XB1. Just because the forums said this is a pve game doesn't make it true. On XB1 NA it definitely feels like the population cares more about pvp then anything.

Finding people to do a vet dungeon or any sort of trial is a huge headache and, you get a lot of "im in pvp" responses.

Lucky28

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

i don't care if people use HA, LA or MA i just wish they'd all be somewhat competitive which they're not. especially with the changes to CP and armor passives.

even now on live. i don't care about heavy armor. just sword and board is the major issue.

Koolio

Wondering if this makes sustain doable as a werewolf. Was worried about it since it already difficult.

ADarklore

Smmokkee wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

Again wtf is this guy talking about? The overwhelming majority of players are huge noobs that stand around talking to each other in vulkhel guard. The endgame pve scene is in such shambles right now. Vet trials are broken.. The pinnacle of endgame pve barely even functions on XB1. Just because the forums said this is a pve game doesn't make it true. On XB1 NA it definitely feels like the population cares more about pvp then anything.

Finding people to do a vet dungeon or any sort of trial is a huge headache and, you get a lot of "im in pvp" responses.

Oh, did I forget to mention, when some people talk PvE, we're not talking 'end game', we're talking PvE as in the majority of players are SOLO questers, not 'end game' dungeons and trials PvE. Both PvP and 'End Game PvE' are the minority here in ESO, hence the reason ZOS doesn't devote a whole lot of emphasis to them. However, because PvP players cry the loudest the moment they lose a battle, ZOS figures they have to calm them down by nerfing whatever it was that caused them the defeat... instead of doing the smart thing and completely separating PvE abilities from PvP. They've already demonstrated they can do it, after all, they took 'stealth damage bonus' away in PvP but left it fully intact for PvE... so their claim of, "wanting to keep all abilities the same across PvP and PvE" was just proven false with this update.

Izaki

Tenacity is 15% not 25%. Before complaining plz check the PTS for proper values and actually test things.

ManDraKE

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Tenacity is 15% not 25%. Before complaining plz check the PTS for proper values and actually test things.

My bad, anyway the point is still valid. You can get more with less points now, in the end most of the ppl will be running with a bigger % from tenacity than they current have in live.

Minno

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

So many sustain nerfs that this heavy attack resource thing evens it out. You can still bash/interrupt a heavy attack. Only thing left to change is Dark Deal, once interrupt charges resources "the sustain game" may become a thing again.

Wait, did they make heavy attacks interruptible again?

Because they haven't been interruptible for years.

Dark Exchange definitely needs to charge its cost if it's interrupted.

I thought they were but then I realized I hit a s+b reflect with my destro heavy attack lol.

sneakymitchell

ManDraKE wrote: »

- 30% increase in Morrowind
- 25% increase with Tenacity
- 25% increased with heavy armor

We are back to heavy-armor meta on PvP with this, everyone will be running heavy armor and using heavy attack to restore resources, getting over 6k with a single HA (and keep in mind that HA charge times had being reduced). And i don't even want to see how much you can restore with a restoration staff heavy attack...

Please think twice before going live with this, heavy attacks already restored a very high amount on Live, adding an extra 30% is just insane.

Players complain about resource management. That's what you get. Zenimax hears players and fixes them changing it back almost and still players complain. That's what you wanted right? Going back instead of forward. And no heavy armor won't be the meta that much anymore once players start using major defile or minor defile and putting points in befoul. Problem will be solved.(remember befoul is 55% increase of defile)

Banana

Restos going to be great for getting the good stuff back

Smmokkee

ADarklore wrote: »

Smmokkee wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about this? Sustain has been nerfed so badly, the devs decided to throw us a bone with heavy attacks... and now you want to throw back the bone?

Because we wanted a shift from the heavy armor meta in PvP. This doesn't help that.

I'm sorry, this game doesn't revolve around PvP when the overwhelming majority of players are PvE!!! PvE gets screwed enough as it is because of you PvP players, enough is enough!!

Again wtf is this guy talking about? The overwhelming majority of players are huge noobs that stand around talking to each other in vulkhel guard. The endgame pve scene is in such shambles right now. Vet trials are broken.. The pinnacle of endgame pve barely even functions on XB1. Just because the forums said this is a pve game doesn't make it true. On XB1 NA it definitely feels like the population cares more about pvp then anything.

Finding people to do a vet dungeon or any sort of trial is a huge headache and, you get a lot of "im in pvp" responses.

Oh, did I forget to mention, when some people talk PvE, we're not talking 'end game', we're talking PvE as in the majority of players are SOLO questers, not 'end game' dungeons and trials PvE. Both PvP and 'End Game PvE' are the minority here in ESO, hence the reason ZOS doesn't devote a whole lot of emphasis to them. However, because PvP players cry the loudest the moment they lose a battle, ZOS figures they have to calm them down by nerfing whatever it was that caused them the defeat... instead of doing the smart thing and completely separating PvE abilities from PvP. They've already demonstrated they can do it, after all, they took 'stealth damage bonus' away in PvP but left it fully intact for PvE... so their claim of, "wanting to keep all abilities the same across PvP and PvE" was just proven false with this update.

Lol solo questers?? Really?? Overland content is so easy they could nerf everything into the ground and it still wouldn't be hard. If you are a solo quester and these nerfs anger you then that is just hilarious.

The only one I see crying right now is you bud and, plenty of stuff was nerfed in favor of pve as well.

Also if the majority of players are solo questers why would they balance between the two? It'd be pointless.

I think they lack the resources to balance between the two. Its just unrealistic for zos.

Olupajmibanan

First complaining about resource management nerf.
Than complaining about resource management buff.
On top of that, there are people who are complaining about people who complain about resource management buffs or nerfs.

Can we get to something new?
Maybe complaining about global warming?

techprince

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

First complaining about resource management nerf.
Than complaining about resource management buff.
On top of that, there are people who are complaining about people who complain about resource management buffs or nerfs.

Can we get to something new?
Maybe complaining about global warming?

lol

magorim

ADarklore wrote: »

Oh, did I forget to mention, when some people talk PvE, we're not talking 'end game', we're talking PvE as in the majority of players are SOLO questers, not 'end game' dungeons and trials PvE. Both PvP and 'End Game PvE' are the minority here in ESO, hence the reason ZOS doesn't devote a whole lot of emphasis to them.

Gawd are you talking about PvE heros playing a nord stamina pet sorc in heavy armor struggling against two crabs? Please don't balance anything around this type of players.

ManDraKE

magorim wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Oh, did I forget to mention, when some people talk PvE, we're not talking 'end game', we're talking PvE as in the majority of players are SOLO questers, not 'end game' dungeons and trials PvE. Both PvP and 'End Game PvE' are the minority here in ESO, hence the reason ZOS doesn't devote a whole lot of emphasis to them.

Gawd are you talking about PvE heros playing a nord stamina pet sorc in heavy armor struggling against two crabs? Please don't balance anything around this type of players.

rolf

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Anti_Virus wrote: »

It seems no matter what they do heavy is always OP, well

According to @Gilliamtherogue heavy attacks restore 5% of your max resource

So a 30% + 15% + 25% increase would be 9.5% resource return from heavy attacks based on max stats.

Correct! Someone that actually understands how Tenacity really works. That is exactly correct.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

timidobserver wrote: »

All of the threads complaining about this have one thing in common.

Yep....PVP. So sick of it.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

First complaining about resource management nerf.
Than complaining about resource management buff.
On top of that, there are people who are complaining about people who complain about resource management buffs or nerfs.

Can we get to something new?
Maybe complaining about global warming?

Yep, come Monday many will be crying that their toons run out of steam too quickly in PVP and start flaming these forums for resource return.

Lylith

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

First complaining about resource management nerf.
Than complaining about resource management buff.
On top of that, there are people who are complaining about people who complain about resource management buffs or nerfs.

Can we get to something new?
Maybe complaining about global warming?

or something that's never been discussed before, like 'nerf sorcs.'