The Future of Elegant Set & Molten Armaments

DDuke

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

Kilandros

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Beardimus

Elegant got killed for me in U13, so yeah be cool if it makes a comeback.

leepalmer95

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

Xvorg

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Yup... the change isn't that bad. Same as inhale and spiked cost reductions...

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Kilandros

Xvorg wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Yup... the change isn't that bad. Same as inhale and spiked cost reductions...

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Chains is great when it works - the problem is it's the buggiest gap closer in the game.

As far as DK passives, yeah they seriously need to be brought up to par.

HugeMuffin

Xvorg wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Yup... the change isn't that bad. Same as inhale and spiked cost reductions...

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Because swarm mother's is not controllable and has a cooldown?

leepalmer95

HugeMuffin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Yup... the change isn't that bad. Same as inhale and spiked cost reductions...

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Because swarm mother's is not controllable and has a cooldown?

Think they're on about chains in pvp, e.g. the gap closing one.

Paraflex

It's not needed to buff anything you can get 25k heavy attacks on people in PvP right now. That's a loss of 3750 damage. You still will hit for 21k on people. There's no need to buff gear or skills.

DDuke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Kilandros

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

As much as I hate to see nerfs to niche builds, in this case I'd rather take the overall buff to DK at the expensive of the DK heavy attack gank build. Sorry.

Xvorg

Kilandros wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.

Now that Heavy Attacks are being made pretty much useless from burst perspective, could we get some buffs to sets like Elegant so they don't become 100% garbage?

Same goes for Molten Armaments.

Based on some crude calculations I made, Elegant should be buffed from 20% to around 24-25% for it to provide roughly same amount of damage as before.

For Molten Armaments, it would have to be buffed to around 48% for it to provide same amount of DPS as before (though I don't see the harm of buffing it to 50% now that overall burst damage is going down anyhow).


Or you can just leave these sets & skills (that weren't really FOTM in the first place) as they are and render them useless.

I actually think these changes will be a pretty good buff to Molten Armaments. Increased heavy attack speed means we can more reliably land Inferno heavy attacks, and the resource restore buffs to heavy coupled with the overall sustain nerfs means we'll be heavy attacking more as a matter of course.

Yup... the change isn't that bad. Same as inhale and spiked cost reductions...

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Chains is great when it works - the problem is it's the buggiest gap closer in the game.

As far as DK passives, yeah they seriously need to be brought up to par.

That's why now I'm roaming cyro with a greatsword xD

NBrookus

Xvorg wrote: »

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Chains would be one of the best skills in the game with two compelling morphs to choose from... if it worked reliably.

DDuke

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

As much as I hate to see nerfs to niche builds, in this case I'd rather take the overall buff to DK at the expensive of the DK heavy attack gank build. Sorry.

These changes affect a lot more than just DKs.

For example, Stygian+Elegant magicka NB will no longer be viable with these changes going in, which means people will just go for the 2H ulti version - which means less build diversity.

Kilandros

NBrookus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Chains? I still don't get why that skill still exists. Same as with Ardent flame passives...

Chains would be one of the best skills in the game with two compelling morphs to choose from... if it worked reliably.

If Chains worked reliably, and if Warmth passive was changed to be a 60% snare for 2 seconds instead of a 30% snare for 4 seconds, oh baby we'd be back in the gap closing business.

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

The charging time is the compensation you get. Since the nerf is equal for everyone, mDKs will still put moar dmg per each HA.

But I do agree mDKs should put moar dmg per flame based HA, and that's why I want at least one of the useless arden flame passives changed to something more in line with that playing style...

DDuke

Xvorg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

The charging time is the compensation you get. Since the nerf is equal for everyone, mDKs will still put moar dmg per each HA.

But I do agree mDKs should put moar dmg per flame based HA, and that's why I want at least one of the useless arden flame passives changed to something more in line with that playing style...

The charging time doesn't really matter though when it comes to PvP - the only reason you'd go for inferno staff in the first place instead of the undodgeable lightning staff is burst damage.

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

The charging time is the compensation you get. Since the nerf is equal for everyone, mDKs will still put moar dmg per each HA.

But I do agree mDKs should put moar dmg per flame based HA, and that's why I want at least one of the useless arden flame passives changed to something more in line with that playing style...

The charging time doesn't really matter though when it comes to PvP - the only reason you'd go for inferno staff in the first place instead of the undodgeable lightning staff is burst damage.

The only reason I go inferno is the knockback xD

Nevertheless with the buff to resources, it doesn't seem as a huge nerf. You still get the major sorc buff

But I need moar testing in the right environment. PTS (and even closed PTS) is not going to give us any idea if this is good or bad until it hits live in 20 days

Koolio

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

As much as I hate to see nerfs to niche builds, in this case I'd rather take the overall buff to DK at the expensive of the DK heavy attack gank build. Sorry.

And a nerf to MNB gank builds.

leepalmer95

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

DDuke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

You nerf one form of burst, people just move on to the next thing.

This time they nerfed builds that weren't even very popular & what we're gonna see as a result is more people moving on to the FOTM builds.

leepalmer95

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

DDuke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

leepalmer95

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

But they are still ultimates.

Heavy's aren't even skills, they actually give resources and cost nothing and can be cast as much as possible.

DDuke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

But they are still ultimates.

Heavy's aren't even skills, they actually give resources and cost nothing and can be cast as much as possible.

Yes, and I think I explained above why they are ultimates and heavy attacks aren't:

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

Resources don't matter one bit if you don't have burst to kill people.

In fact, I'd say that making heavy attacks return even more resources is toxic for PvP, as that just makes people have infinite resources which causes the problem I mentioned above.

These changes also force even more people to use lightning/resto staff (which are already everywhere) as there's really no reason to use inferno staff if you can't burst people with it.


So how do you propose people who want to play a ranged magicka DK or ranged magicka NB build their characters after these changes? And how would you keep Elegant/Molten Armaments relevant?

Moglijuana

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

But they are still ultimates.

Heavy's aren't even skills, they actually give resources and cost nothing and can be cast as much as possible.

Yes, and I think I explained above why they are ultimates and heavy attacks aren't:

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

Resources don't matter one bit if you don't have burst to kill people.

In fact, I'd say that making heavy attacks return even more resources is toxic for PvP, as that just makes people have infinite resources which causes the problem I mentioned above.

These changes also force even more people to use lightning/resto staff (which are already everywhere) as there's really no reason to use inferno staff if you can't burst people with it.


So how do you propose people who want to play a ranged magicka DK or ranged magicka NB build their characters after these changes? And how would you keep Elegant/Molten Armaments relevant?

They'll still be relevant, more so than every other H.A. build. The damage is simply being toned down. I'm currently running a H.A. build and I'm ok with the changes. They make sense and will help my overall build in the long run.

When I can do this to ppl:


I don't mind the dmg going down to let ppl have some kind of counter. And now I get 30% more resources and a faster heavy? Let's gooooo.

DDuke

Moglijuana wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

But they are still ultimates.

Heavy's aren't even skills, they actually give resources and cost nothing and can be cast as much as possible.

Yes, and I think I explained above why they are ultimates and heavy attacks aren't:

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

Resources don't matter one bit if you don't have burst to kill people.

In fact, I'd say that making heavy attacks return even more resources is toxic for PvP, as that just makes people have infinite resources which causes the problem I mentioned above.

These changes also force even more people to use lightning/resto staff (which are already everywhere) as there's really no reason to use inferno staff if you can't burst people with it.


So how do you propose people who want to play a ranged magicka DK or ranged magicka NB build their characters after these changes? And how would you keep Elegant/Molten Armaments relevant?

They'll still be relevant, more so than every other H.A. build. The damage is simply being toned down. I'm currently running a H.A. build and I'm ok with the changes. They make sense and will help my overall build in the long run.

When I can do this to ppl:


I don't mind the dmg going down to let ppl have some kind of counter. And now I get 30% more resources and a faster heavy? Let's gooooo.

That is so easily to countered though (unless it comes from stealth), you just block or roll dodge - or wear heavy armor so that it never hits that hard.

And if you've built for inferno heavy attacks, once someone counters your burst (or doesn't die from it) you're pretty much dead or useless.

This just leads to more people flocking to the same FOTM builds that are everywhere - builds that can reliably burst people down.

Take magicka NB for example:

Currently you can make Stygian+Elegant work quite well & reliably deal dmg close to what is on that screenshot of yours.
Currently you can also go Stygian+Necropotence(or Alchemist) & deal same (more on heavy armor) damage with a 2H ulti from cloak.

Next patch, your only option will be to go for the 2H ulti version.


Is this good for the game? Reducing the amount of viable builds in the game?

I don't think it is.

Durham

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

No it's does not work like this..

Moglijuana

DDuke wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can hit like 25-30k heavys at the moment, 15% isn't going to break them.

As it happens, 25-30k is the average health of players.

You take away 3,8k-4,5k damage from that and people will live through your burst and the entire build is ruined.


So yes, 15% nerf is going to break these builds.

Now, I'm not saying they should roll back these changes - but at the very least they should buff Molten Armaments & sets like Elegant so that they provide the same amount of damage as before.

Example:
Currently: 20k+20% (Elegant)=25k (you get 5k from Elegant)
After patch: 17k (-15% heavy attack damage)+20% (Elegant)=20,4k (3,4k from Elegant)

That's a 38% reduction in set effectiveness.

This is how you'd fix it:
17k+30% (buffed Elegant)=22,1k (5,1k from Elegant)

Now the set provides close to same amount of benefit as before, while the overall heavy attack damage is still nerfed.

Good 25-30k heavy attacks are stupid in the first place.

Plus all you'd have to do it literally use a skill, heavy's should be damaging if they land but not to the point where builds hit for like 80% of someones hp.

In pve heavy dps won't really change.
In pvp they'll do less dmg but give a lot more resources.

Is there a difference I'm not aware of between 25-30k damage from a destro heavy attack & 25-30k damage from a 2H ulti? Or sorc overload?

Doesn't matter what build you're playing, every build needs a 100->0% burst to be successful in PvP - that's just how PvP is in this game.

Well for a start 2 are ultimates.

The other is a heavy attack.

I can throw as many heavy's as i want, if i don't 1 hit someone with the 2h ult your basically useless
Overload still costs ult as well.

2H ulti recharges after you one shot someone with it & the cost of one overload light attack is close to nothing.

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

But they are still ultimates.

Heavy's aren't even skills, they actually give resources and cost nothing and can be cast as much as possible.

Yes, and I think I explained above why they are ultimates and heavy attacks aren't:

Also, both of them are instant (unlike heavy attacks) and thus much harder to avoid.

Resources don't matter one bit if you don't have burst to kill people.

In fact, I'd say that making heavy attacks return even more resources is toxic for PvP, as that just makes people have infinite resources which causes the problem I mentioned above.

These changes also force even more people to use lightning/resto staff (which are already everywhere) as there's really no reason to use inferno staff if you can't burst people with it.


So how do you propose people who want to play a ranged magicka DK or ranged magicka NB build their characters after these changes? And how would you keep Elegant/Molten Armaments relevant?

They'll still be relevant, more so than every other H.A. build. The damage is simply being toned down. I'm currently running a H.A. build and I'm ok with the changes. They make sense and will help my overall build in the long run.

When I can do this to ppl:


I don't mind the dmg going down to let ppl have some kind of counter. And now I get 30% more resources and a faster heavy? Let's gooooo.

That is so easily to countered though (unless it comes from stealth), you just block or roll dodge - or wear heavy armor so that it never hits that hard.

And if you've built for inferno heavy attacks, once someone counters your burst (or doesn't die from it) you're pretty much dead or useless.

This just leads to more people flocking to the same FOTM builds that are everywhere - builds that can reliably burst people down.

Take magicka NB for example:

Currently you can make Stygian+Elegant work quite well & reliably deal dmg close to what is on that screenshot of yours.
Currently you can also go Stygian+Necropotence(or Alchemist) & deal same (more on heavy armor) damage with a 2H ulti from cloak.

Next patch, your only option will be to go for the 2H ulti version.


Is this good for the game? Reducing the amount of viable builds in the game?

I don't think it is.

I'm a DK, so no stealth for me. That picture isn't even wearing Elegant (it's sun), so every one of my abilities hits hard. If the heavies don't kill them, everything else right behind it will. My self-buffed tooltip for whip is sitting at 10.5k with a 12.5k power lash. Dragonleap sits at a whopping 20k. I hit ridiculously hard and have suprising sustain, especially with BloodSpawn. IF someone lives through my burst it's honestly pretty easy to kite them and keep their health low and just wait for another opening.

I just think 1 shot capabilities should be toned down (on all classes), as they offer little to no counter play. Dodge + Block can only do so much before you misjudge the timing and get one shot (which happens quite often, even against good players.) I like working for my kills.

geonsocal

won't the 20% buff to light attack (using elegance set) offset the loss of damage from the nerf to heavy attacks (with elegance)...

Xvorg

geonsocal wrote: »

won't the 20% buff to light attack (using elegance set) offset the loss of damage from the nerf to heavy attacks (with elegance)...

yup, but the point here is Armaments.

For a mageblade build, it is a great buff though