On Spear Shards (and morphs - particularly Luminous)

Lore_lai

Okay I feel like it is time for all of us to speak up.
Spear Shards and morphs have undergone a multitude of changes that have done nothing but nerf the skill over and over again on various subtle (or not-so-subtle) levels, that many of the active Magicka Templars won't even feel, for various reasons.

On top of it all, I will add that I have not seen a more divided community than I have seen the Templar one.
We bicker even amongst ourselves and we blame each-other for no other reason than peer pressure. And the ones who don't partake in the petty bicker - don't care.
Take what you want from that.

On to the matter at hand.
Come PTS patch 3.0 we have seen a change particularly to the morph that is Luminous Shards.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
Developer Comments:

This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

Come patch 3.0.2 this particular change has been completely scraped without *any* kind of insight whatsoever. We are now sitting at PTS patch 3.0.3 and all the devs have been mum.
Some of the Templars I have spoken to don't even realize this. Wake up, people!

Where has this change gone? is this a bug? Is this intended? Why have we gotten ZERO feedback from the devs about this particular change?
Why are we being ignored over and over again? Why are we so unimportant that we don't even deserve a mention in the patch notes?

Whether you care or care not about this particular change is irrelevant - if you main a Templar you *should* care about the attention the developers are giving to our class and you should feel concerned. You should care about their view on our class and you should care about what type of feedback they are listening to and why they do it.
This is not the cause/issue - this is the very definition of a symptom of an underlying issue and that will not go away any time soon.
@DisgracefulMind @Joy_Division @Ron_Burgundy_79 @WhiteMage
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

makeumrage

You have to read all the patch notes. It was changed in 3.0.2 and is much better this way.

Lore_lai

@makeumrage
You don't understand my point. And by that you indirectly prove how so many don't even pay attention.
There is literally no mention as to why the resource return to the casting Tempar has been removed.
Maybe you should re-read the dev quote I mentioned and the particular change I was referring to.

In case I have not made myself clear - I have tested this on the PTS - the resource return *is* gone.

Silver_Strider

ZOS saw that Templars were gonna be about to tank and support the group via shards so they had to nerf it or risk Warden being outshined

Masel

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS saw that Templars were gonna be about to tank and support the group via shards so they had to nerf it or risk Warden being outshined

Can you stop saying stuff like that in relation to wardens? They aren't op in any way. Period.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Lore_lai wrote: »

@makeumrage
You don't understand my point. And by that you indirectly prove how so many don't even pay attention.
There is literally no mention as to why the resource return to the casting Tempar has been removed.
Maybe you should re-read the dev quote I mentioned and the particular change I was referring to.

In case I have not made myself clear - I have tested this on the PTS - the resource return *is* gone.

It's another templar ninja nerf. Seems like ZOS does it to us at least once per patch. IMO luminous shards should return resources to the caster and blazing spear should cc again. That would make both morphs viable.

DisgracefulMind

Agree completely. The problem is that ZoS hasn't listened to much feedback when it comes to Spear Shards and its morphs. The one thing they listened to is that Templars wanted it to still restore stamina. So they gave it the slight adjustment to restore some of the secondary resource.

But this isn't the problem. The problem is that Templars, specifically Magicka Templars have been begging for months to have the CC back on Shards, but instead of doing what they originally promised, ZoS has taken away any form of CC from them.

When the CC was removed from Blazing Spear, ZoS said this:

Developer Comments
We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and increased its damage over time duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused, and Luminous to be CC focused. Note: We’re still working through a solution that makes Luminous feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.

While Templars were upset with this change, most of us said, okay, we'll take Luminous Shards then, because ZoS said they'd be making improvements to its CC, so we can get used to this. No problem. PvE DPS Magplars took the Blazing Spear morph, and PvP Magplars took the Luminous Morph. It worked out, and we held hope for the improvements that ZoS had promised us for the morph.

Now fast forward to PTS Patch 3.0.0:

Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
Developer Comments:
This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

ZoS changed Luminous Shards to give the casting Templar resources as a compensation of sorts to losing the separate cooldown from Orbs. While the change was a bit tough to chew for us, particularly for Magplar Healers, the resource restore was proper compensation. Okay, no problem. We can work with this. A resource restore from someone hitting our synergies was a cool dynamic and felt rewarding.

PTS Patch 3.0.1:

Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restores Magicka or Stamina based on whichever has the highest maximum, instead of whichever has the largest missing percentage.
Known Issue: Luminous Shard’s resource return for the casting Templar is still restoring resources based on the largest missing percent. This will be fixed in future PTS patch.

More adjustments to make Shards valuable in ZoS new resource management "vision" for Morrowind. As you can see here, they were working on improvements for the resource restore to the casting Templar. While most of us were still unhappy with the changes, ZoS saying they were working to improve Shards for us was good.

Then we hit PTS Patch 3.0.2:

Spear Shards: This ability and the Luminous Shard morph no longer disorient an enemy. It also now deals moderate additional damage over time after the spear lands.
Developer Comments:
There are three main goals behind the changes to Spear Shards and its morphs. First, we want the design of Spear Shards to be more clearly focused – it’s a powerful area of effect damage ability with a prominent synergy. Templars still have crowd control options with other abilities such as Piercing Javelin, Eclipse, and Focused Charge. This also prevents scenarios where the disorient on this ability would be a detriment; since Spear Shards could proc Burning Light, there would frequently be situations where the disorient broke immediately and gave your enemy a “free” crowd control immunity.

This is where ZoS became radical with their changes with Shards. First they take away the CC, which they had previously promised us to be working on improvements for. This is also the PTS patch where that resource return for the casting Templar went mysteriously missing with no comment to tell us what happened to it. This is a problem because the previous PTS patch ZoS has told us they were going to work on that mechanic to Shards so that it would function properly.

So PTS Patch 3.0.2 has become to most devastating blow to Luminous Shards because it took away our disorient on the morph AND took away the resource restore to the casting Templar.

ZoS, we need some communication on Luminous Shards. You keep backing out of what you are saying you want to do with the morph, and have absolutely no communication with Templars about it. I think if you asked Templar players, almost every single one of us would tell you that we would prefer to have a CC back on Luminous and that we would like our resource restore. But it feels like no one at ZoS is listening to Templars, and they are just making changes that they think are good when, in fact, they are not good and helpful changes.

Now, Magicka Templars especially, are left with almost no CC options, and we have absolutely no compensation for that in our class toolkit. The Javelin "buff" is a nerf, Eclipse isn't a CC option, and Toppling is still very slow and buggy.

So, please tell us what happened with the resource return to the casting Templar. Please give us a valid reasoning for the loss of CC. Please just explain to the Templar community what exactly is going on with our Shards, because you keep changing things in not only the opposite direction we're asking, but also in ways that have us all confused. What happened to the resource return, and what happened to the promise of a good CC on Luminous?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Joy_Division

Normally I would make a joke of how you must be new here because undocumented nerfs, developers not listening to templar player feedback, and broken promises have been par for the course since Beta (ask the old timers about Restoring Spirit).

But I know you aren't new and I can see you are particularly bothered by this so I will lay out what I think are the two possibilities:

This is likely a bug. I'd like to think it is a bug. ZoS has never been quick to acknowledge bugs. Never. About pretty much anything. It is pretty inexcusable for something as clear cut as this (all they have to do is ask a dev if this is intended, it's not like they need to reproduce this ala say the Streak bug), but it is what it is.

For the other possibility, this maybe intended. Maybe. When they made this change I instantly recognized the very reasons they removed Templar restoring stamina almost became moot, sort of ... because once again we are the only class that can restore the "other" (i.e. not main) resource for classes: you better believe tanks would 1000% prefer a templar Luminous shard than a Warden's Energy Orb, and anyone who has played a magicka toon in PvP knows how valuable their stam pool is. So because of the change, Templars will kind of regain a monopoly of resource return and it's possible that in ZoS's mind this made this skill strong enough to warrant remove the templar's own personal return.

Now, I'm the person who wrote how the Templar soul has been pretty much gutted so what I think about ZoS's changes should be obvious, but for clarity's sake I'll unequivocally say this change (amongst many many many others) should be reverted.

Hopefully we will see a green box in this thread later today just to clear up this issue.

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Agree completely. The problem is that ZoS hasn't listened to much feedback when it comes to Spear Shards and its morphs. The one thing they listened to is that Templars wanted it to still restore stamina. So they gave it the slight adjustment to restore some of the secondary resource.

But this isn't the problem. The problem is that Templars, specifically Magicka Templars have been begging for months to have the CC back on Shards, but instead of doing what they originally promised, ZoS has taken away any form of CC from them.

When the CC was removed from Blazing Spear, ZoS said this:

Developer Comments
We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and increased its damage over time duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused, and Luminous to be CC focused. Note: We’re still working through a solution that makes Luminous feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.

While Templars were upset with this change, most of us said, okay, we'll take Luminous Shards then, because ZoS said they'd be making improvements to its CC, so we can get used to this. No problem. PvE DPS Magplars took the Blazing Spear morph, and PvP Magplars took the Luminous Morph. It worked out, and we held hope for the improvements that ZoS had promised us for the morph.

Now fast forward to PTS Patch 3.0.0:

Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
Developer Comments:
This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

ZoS changed Luminous Shards to give the casting Templar resources as a compensation of sorts to losing the separate cooldown from Orbs. While the change was a bit tough to chew for us, particularly for Magplar Healers, the resource restore was proper compensation. Okay, no problem. We can work with this. A resource restore from someone hitting our synergies was a cool dynamic and felt rewarding.

PTS Patch 3.0.1:

Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restores Magicka or Stamina based on whichever has the highest maximum, instead of whichever has the largest missing percentage.
Known Issue: Luminous Shard’s resource return for the casting Templar is still restoring resources based on the largest missing percent. This will be fixed in future PTS patch.

More adjustments to make Shards valuable in ZoS new resource management "vision" for Morrowind. As you can see here, they were working on improvements for the resource restore to the casting Templar. While most of us were still unhappy with the changes, ZoS saying they were working to improve Shards for us was good.

Then we hit PTS Patch 3.0.2:

Spear Shards: This ability and the Luminous Shard morph no longer disorient an enemy. It also now deals moderate additional damage over time after the spear lands.
Developer Comments:
There are three main goals behind the changes to Spear Shards and its morphs. First, we want the design of Spear Shards to be more clearly focused – it’s a powerful area of effect damage ability with a prominent synergy. Templars still have crowd control options with other abilities such as Piercing Javelin, Eclipse, and Focused Charge. This also prevents scenarios where the disorient on this ability would be a detriment; since Spear Shards could proc Burning Light, there would frequently be situations where the disorient broke immediately and gave your enemy a “free” crowd control immunity.

This is where ZoS became radical with their changes with Shards. First they take away the CC, which they had previously promised us to be working on improvements for. This is also the PTS patch where that resource return for the casting Templar went mysteriously missing with no comment to tell us what happened to it. This is a problem because the previous PTS patch ZoS has told us they were going to work on that mechanic to Shards so that it would function properly.

So PTS Patch 3.0.2 has become to most devastating blow to Luminous Shards because it took away our disorient on the morph AND took away the resource restore to the casting Templar.

ZoS, we need some communication on Luminous Shards. You keep backing out of what you are saying you want to do with the morph, and have absolutely no communication with Templars about it. I think if you asked Templar players, almost every single one of us would tell you that we would prefer to have a CC back on Luminous and that we would like our resource restore. But it feels like no one at ZoS is listening to Templars, and they are just making changes that they think are good when, in fact, they are not good and helpful changes.

Now, Magicka Templars especially, are left with almost no CC options, and we have absolutely no compensation for that in our class toolkit. The Javelin "buff" is a nerf, Eclipse isn't a CC option, and Toppling is still very slow and buggy.

So, please tell us what happened with the resource return to the casting Templar. Please give us a valid reasoning for the loss of CC. Please just explain to the Templar community what exactly is going on with our Shards, because you keep changing things in not only the opposite direction we're asking, but also in ways that have us all confused. What happened to the resource return, and what happened to the promise of a good CC on Luminous?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they did deliver on their promise to make the skill "function better". Sadly what works on Mars won't work here on Tamriel...

GallantGuardian

Flat out... fix it devs...let the caster also get back the stamina and magika .... you ruined repentance not everyone's going to get back stamina ... and in some cases not everyone who repents will get back off bodies if someone gets their first... please fix this we need some way of getting back resources..literally every class gets back resources some how... with out there being some huge stipulation... no other class has the problem of needing to use their ability before someone else to restore...

Fix this before it goes live I DO NOT want to have to use orbs... i want to use the kills in my class otherwise why did i even bother picking this class

Paraflex

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Normally I would make a joke of how you must be new here because undocumented nerfs, developers not listening to templar player feedback, and broken promises have been par for the course since Beta (ask the old timers about Restoring Spirit).

But I know you aren't new and I can see you are particularly bothered by this so I will lay out what I think are the two possibilities:

This is likely a bug. I'd like to think it is a bug. ZoS has never been quick to acknowledge bugs. Never. About pretty much anything. It is pretty inexcusable for something as clear cut as this (all they have to do is ask a dev if this is intended, it's not like they need to reproduce this ala say the Streak bug), but it is what it is.

For the other possibility, this maybe intended. Maybe. When they made this change I instantly recognized the very reasons they removed Templar restoring stamina almost became moot, sort of ... because once again we are the only class that can restore the "other" (i.e. not main) resource for classes: you better believe tanks would 1000% prefer a templar Luminous shard than a Warden's Energy Orb, and anyone who has played a magicka toon in PvP knows how valuable their stam pool is. So because of the change, Templars will kind of regain a monopoly of resource return and it's possible that in ZoS's mind this made this skill strong enough to warrant remove the templar's own personal return.

Now, I'm the person who wrote how the Templar soul has been pretty much gutted so what I think about ZoS's changes should be obvious, but for clarity's sake I'll unequivocally say this change (amongst many many many others) should be reverted.

Hopefully we will see a green box in this thread later today just to clear up this issue.

Templar might be one of the few classes/skill lines that got lost in translation from soft caps to battlespirit and then from VR16 system to the CP system. There is a reason the DMG/clunky design doesn't match after two major system overhauls. (I see this daily in the design field too. When architects change their designs, after a few iterations, if the consultants they hire don't mention when elements conflict, the changes go on believed to be perfect when in actuality they are a waiting for the contractor to call for a change order costing the owner money. Everything we do has the potential to get missed and lost in the name of progress. You must be diligent in recording changes otherwise things like the issue templars deal with happen).

Also id imagine, hardly any templars use skills outside of the jabs, VB, BoL Trinity. Even I am surprised to see a luminous shards in open cyro. The clunkiness of the class is so bad, most just roll Stam. I don't blame then either, chaining 2 two hander skills together have more burst than RD at low health.). Why can't we have unique abilities that make us scream "I am a templar"?

I want to use the other skills. But when I see one do less than 1k DMG in cyro for 3k mag, I end up playing Skyrim. I don't even have to look at the other skills, I just know I'm looking at the same issues.

KingJ

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

DisgracefulMind

Joy_Division wrote: »

Normally I would make a joke of how you must be new here because undocumented nerfs, developers not listening to templar player feedback, and broken promises have been par for the course since Beta (ask the old timers about Restoring Spirit).

But I know you aren't new and I can see you are particularly bothered by this so I will lay out what I think are the two possibilities:

This is likely a bug. I'd like to think it is a bug. ZoS has never been quick to acknowledge bugs. Never. About pretty much anything. It is pretty inexcusable for something as clear cut as this (all they have to do is ask a dev if this is intended, it's not like they need to reproduce this ala say the Streak bug), but it is what it is.

For the other possibility, this maybe intended. Maybe. When they made this change I instantly recognized the very reasons they removed Templar restoring stamina almost became moot, sort of ... because once again we are the only class that can restore the "other" (i.e. not main) resource for classes: you better believe tanks would 1000% prefer a templar Luminous shard than a Warden's Energy Orb, and anyone who has played a magicka toon in PvP knows how valuable their stam pool is. So because of the change, Templars will kind of regain a monopoly of resource return and it's possible that in ZoS's mind this made this skill strong enough to warrant remove the templar's own personal return.

Now, I'm the person who wrote how the Templar soul has been pretty much gutted so what I think about ZoS's changes should be obvious, but for clarity's sake I'll unequivocally say this change (amongst many many many others) should be reverted.

Hopefully we will see a green box in this thread later today just to clear up this issue.

PTS patch 3.0.2 removed this without a word spoken from ZoS. This is the issue.

It is not a bug. There was a clear sound and visual that played when someone activated your shard and you obtained those resources. Patch 3.0.2 removed this completely.

ZoS did not state they were removing this, and had even stated in 3.0.1 that they were working on making this function work better for the casting Templar.

They can at least tell us when they take away something that should be there a a compensation for them continuously nerfing shards. /:

DisgracefulMind

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Doesn't matter, it would still cause someone to drop block, and that was better than relying on our non-reliable CCs. We were also falsely promised that ZoS was working towards improving Luminous Shards' CC capability. I suppose their idea of working on improving a class CC is to remove it, right?

DisgracefulMind

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Flat out... fix it devs...let the caster also get back the stamina and magika .... you ruined repentance not everyone's going to get back stamina ... and in some cases not everyone who repents will get back off bodies if someone gets their first... please fix this we need some way of getting back resources..literally every class gets back resources some how... with out there being some huge stipulation... no other class has the problem of needing to use their ability before someone else to restore...

Fix this before it goes live I DO NOT want to have to use orbs... i want to use the kills in my class otherwise why did i even bother picking this class

This exactly. With the new fight for Repentance since Templars are basically screwed with the skill when more than one is in group, this was something that would have drastically helped us with sustain. Our toolkit is expensive, and, yes, we have Channeled Focus, but with Morrowind's sustain changes it is not enough. Why are we being punished in groups now? I don't get it.

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Flat out... fix it devs...let the caster also get back the stamina and magika .... you ruined repentance not everyone's going to get back stamina ... and in some cases not everyone who repents will get back off bodies if someone gets their first... please fix this we need some way of getting back resources..literally every class gets back resources some how... with out there being some huge stipulation... no other class has the problem of needing to use their ability before someone else to restore...

Fix this before it goes live I DO NOT want to have to use orbs... i want to use the kills in my class otherwise why did i even bother picking this class

This exactly. With the new fight for Repentance since Templars are basically screwed with the skill when more than one is in group, this was something that would have drastically helped us with sustain. Our toolkit is expensive, and, yes, we have Channeled Focus, but with Morrowind's sustain changes it is not enough. Why are we being punished in groups now? I don't get it.

Templars forever stuck living in the soft caps era.

Paraflex

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Paraflex

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Doesn't matter, it would still cause someone to drop block, and that was better than relying on our non-reliable CCs. We were also falsely promised that ZoS was working towards improving Luminous Shards' CC capability. I suppose their idea of working on improving a class CC is to remove it, right?

Lol so true we'll let's just remove it from the game that's a fix right?

Ron_Burgundy_79

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Wait you don't use burning light on a magplar? Lol.

GallantGuardian

Let's not get off topic

Zos needs to make this right and allow us to get back stats again

LeifErickson

#MakeShardsCCGreatAgain

Paraflex

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Wait you don't use burning light on a magplar? Lol.

Ever heard of a group healing Templar?

Koensol

Lol. So basically, ZOS couldn't fix luminous shards so they decided to completely remove the cc.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Koensol wrote: »

Lol. So basically, ZOS couldn't fix luminous shards so they decided to completely remove the cc.

itscompton

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Ha ha, pass up the free damage proc from burning light so your luminous can drop someone's block until you hit them 1 time while giving them CC immunity, genius. Someone is definitely a moron when it comes to playing Templar. But I'm sure everyone in your group appreciates when their stuns and roots don't work because you've figured out the secret to using luminous correctly.

KingJ

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Doesn't matter, it would still cause someone to drop block, and that was better than relying on our non-reliable CCs. We were also falsely promised that ZoS was working towards improving Luminous Shards' CC capability. I suppose their idea of working on improving a class CC is to remove it, right?

I'm not disagreeing with you Blazing shards should never have loss its stun.To say luminous was the better morph and only bad players didn't like it. That's my issue with the statement. Personally I believe Wrobel didn't know how to fix it and so completely changed it instead of saying he was wrong for changing blazing spear.

Paraflex

itscompton wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Ha ha, pass up the free damage proc from burning light so your luminous can drop someone's block until you hit them 1 time while giving them CC immunity, genius. Someone is definitely a moron when it comes to playing Templar. But I'm sure everyone in your group appreciates when their stuns and roots don't work because you've figured out the secret to using luminous correctly.

It's pretty clear you don't know a good healer from a bad one. If you spec for burning light you should go damage it's not needed for a healer hence why shards with disorient are beneficial.

Also in a good group players leave disoriented targets alone because they have assist trains. You would know this if you played with good people maybe that explains why you are easy AP and get rolled @itscompton

LeifErickson

Paraflex wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Ha ha, pass up the free damage proc from burning light so your luminous can drop someone's block until you hit them 1 time while giving them CC immunity, genius. Someone is definitely a moron when it comes to playing Templar. But I'm sure everyone in your group appreciates when their stuns and roots don't work because you've figured out the secret to using luminous correctly.

It's pretty clear you don't know a good healer from a bad one. If you spec for burning light you should go damage it's not needed for a healer hence why shards with disorient are beneficial.

Are you saying you are literally just not putting skill points in the burning light passive?

DisgracefulMind

itscompton wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Ha ha, pass up the free damage proc from burning light so your luminous can drop someone's block until you hit them 1 time while giving them CC immunity, genius. Someone is definitely a moron when it comes to playing Templar. But I'm sure everyone in your group appreciates when their stuns and roots don't work because you've figured out the secret to using luminous correctly.

Doesn't matter how anyone used Luminous. This is exactly what Meraki meant in her main post when she said the Templar community is divided. You all can't come on here and derail threads when people are trying to get something brought to ZoS attention with healthy discussions. Just stop.

KingJ wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Doesn't matter, it would still cause someone to drop block, and that was better than relying on our non-reliable CCs. We were also falsely promised that ZoS was working towards improving Luminous Shards' CC capability. I suppose their idea of working on improving a class CC is to remove it, right?

I'm not disagreeing with you Blazing shards should never have loss its stun.To say luminous was the better morph and only bad players didn't like it. That's my issue with the statement. Personally I believe Wrobel didn't know how to fix it and so completely changed it instead of saying he was wrong for changing blazing spear.

I'm not agreeing with that statement either. I personally used Luminous to just get block dropped briefly. because we have no other reliable CC options.

Paraflex

LeifErickson wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Shards worked great with the disorient but the bad players didn't understand how it worked and broke the CC. They complained due to ignorance and it's gone. As much as I loved this ability and it was my only CC to use in the game I think next patch I won't be running shards. They gutted everything good about it.

@Paraflex you know luminous pretty much gave free cc immunity to the person you disoriented right.It could proc Burning light and it would break.

Don't spec for burning light and shards work great...morons don't understand that and never used shards correctly.

Ha ha, pass up the free damage proc from burning light so your luminous can drop someone's block until you hit them 1 time while giving them CC immunity, genius. Someone is definitely a moron when it comes to playing Templar. But I'm sure everyone in your group appreciates when their stuns and roots don't work because you've figured out the secret to using luminous correctly.

It's pretty clear you don't know a good healer from a bad one. If you spec for burning light you should go damage it's not needed for a healer hence why shards with disorient are beneficial.

Are you saying you are literally just not putting skill points in the burning light passive?

If your a group Templar heal running lum shards it won't break your disorient. Group Templar healers don't need the dmg.