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Dark Deal/Changes
SlowMetabolism
✭✭✭
All of the class defining/sustaining abilities being nerfed into the ground and one of the most OP one hasn't been touched. You can argue it is counterable by a bash but whenever they reduced the timer on the animation it is hard to bash consistently. Even if you know it is coming when you bash during the animation phase it often doesnt seem to get interrupted.
As someone who never ran heavy armor or proc set meta there would be no reason for me not to level my lvl 3 cheese sorc for this patch if they blanket nerf every other class sustaining ability in the game but DD.
I have been playing the game very little this patch as is and liked the idea of the new update essentially making the game feel new and different but with these class changes I dont think I'll be playing next patch either. Increasing the skill cap and forcing players into atleast speccing for sustain is a good change in itself but everything else I've read is a negative save for a few things.
As someone who never ran heavy armor or proc set meta there would be no reason for me not to level my lvl 3 cheese sorc for this patch if they blanket nerf every other class sustaining ability in the game but DD.
I have been playing the game very little this patch as is and liked the idea of the new update essentially making the game feel new and different but with these class changes I dont think I'll be playing next patch either. Increasing the skill cap and forcing players into atleast speccing for sustain is a good change in itself but everything else I've read is a negative save for a few things.
Day one Xbox player
7
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Incoming: Elder Sorcs OnlineMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available. Also the cast time gets extended by 0.2 seconds in the future I believe.Edited by Feanor on May 2, 2017 3:41PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
SlowMetabolism✭✭✭It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available.
As I said, prior to them reducing the timer of dark deal it was fine. Anyone fighting against a stam sorc had ample time to bash when they saw the animation. Now even if you are expecting them to DD you often times cannot get the bash off. I main S&B 2H Stam DK and a Magblade so the venom arrow and Crushing shock arent options for those two setups. At the very least the amount restored from DD should be reduced just like every other class sustaining ability is being nerfed.
Edit: as for the cast timer being increased I havent seen anything about that and would be interested to see if that were the case. Would also like to know the amount the timer was decreased originally and see if the timer change is essentially being reverted by the possible .2 increase.Edited by SlowMetabolism on May 2, 2017 3:49PMDay one Xbox player0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available. Also the cast time gets extended by 0.2 seconds in the future I believe.
There is man ... I don't want the sorcs to get nerfed ... I'm just bewildered what they are doing here they are doing way to much here ... nerfing everything and everyone is really bad form.... I have a feeling we will look back and say what hurt this game ... We will point to this moment ... I hope/wish the developers realize all of this is vastly unpopular it has created much angst in forums and in game...It does look like they are committed to these changes over the feedback/pushback of the players....
I do have a warning to much change to quick is never a good thing.... change is good... to much to quick is bad... especially in gamesEdited by Durham on May 2, 2017 3:50PMPVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are no arguments why dark deal was untouched it is the best thing to gain resources back on live server:
Low cost
No target needed
Good exchange rate
No punishment if you are actually interrupted
Npcs don't interrupt you so you can get to full resources in 4 seconds, no other class can do that without spending all ultimate(dk) or they can't do it at all. And in ESOM all other classes won't be able to do this even when they sacrifice 50 virgins to molag bal except for sorc.
Something needs to happen otherwise we really have Elder sorc online4 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are no arguments why dark deal was untouched it is the best thing to gain resources back on live server:
Low cost
No target needed
Good exchange rate
No punishment if you are actually interrupted
Npcs don't interrupt you so you can get to full resources in 4 seconds, no other class can do that without spending all ultimate(dk) or they can't do it at all. And in ESOM all other classes won't be able to do this even when they sacrifice 50 virgins to molag bal except for sorc.
Something needs to happen otherwise we really have Elder sorc online
That's the biggie...no punishment for getting interrupted. I'll just cast it again.4 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available. Also the cast time gets extended by 0.2 seconds in the future I believe.
So any class must run crushing shock or venom arrow to prevent a sorc to use a OP heal and res return? What about sorcs that broke CC?
The entire argument of DD being interruptable is stupid. No one is going to use weaker morphs to counter one skill. At least Magelight, which is a counter to NB, gives you something extra in the form of a major buff, and protection against ganking/extra magicka. The skills you are suggesting have NOTHING extra, just help sorc to get CC inmunity...Edited by Xvorg on May 2, 2017 3:56PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stam Sorc is virtually unaffected by all of the sustain changes in this update (with reduced Constitution being the only concern).
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well we all remember Dark Deal/Concersion before Wrobel buffed it. Aka the skill no Sorc slotted. It's the version of a Sorc class burst heal outside pets. If you nerf it again then Sorcs are forced to shield stack with Healing Ward even more as Surge as flat HoT is no burst heal. Sure, you could tone down the secondary resource gain. But again, this will just enforce more shield stacks. Nobody wants that.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well we all remember Dark Deal/Concersion before Wrobel buffed it. Aka the skill no Sorc slotted. It's the version of a Sorc class burst heal outside pets. If you nerf it again then Sorcs are forced to shield stack with Healing Ward even more as Surge as flat HoT is no burst heal. Sure, you could tone down the secondary resource gain. But again, this will just enforce more shield stacks. Nobody wants that.
I don't want Dark Deal nerfed, I want there to be a punishment for getting interrupted.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »Well we all remember Dark Deal/Concersion before Wrobel buffed it. Aka the skill no Sorc slotted. It's the version of a Sorc class burst heal outside pets. If you nerf it again then Sorcs are forced to shield stack with Healing Ward even more as Surge as flat HoT is no burst heal. Sure, you could tone down the secondary resource gain. But again, this will just enforce more shield stacks. Nobody wants that.
I don't want Dark Deal nerfed, I want there to be a punishment for getting interrupted.
Ah. The DK chains treatment. Ask any DK how much fun that was getting charged Magicka when the skill didn't connect.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Give me the magicka cost if I get interrupted. Without that, there's no reason why I shouldn't just Dark Deal again.2 -
SlowMetabolism✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »Well we all remember Dark Deal/Concersion before Wrobel buffed it. Aka the skill no Sorc slotted. It's the version of a Sorc class burst heal outside pets. If you nerf it again then Sorcs are forced to shield stack with Healing Ward even more as Surge as flat HoT is no burst heal. Sure, you could tone down the secondary resource gain. But again, this will just enforce more shield stacks. Nobody wants that.
I don't want Dark Deal nerfed, I want there to be a punishment for getting interrupted.
Ah. The DK chains treatment. Ask any DK how much fun that was getting charged Magicka when the skill didn't connect.
That is actually a good point but that would force them to be smart and use it at a time and place they cant be bashed or interrupted.Day one Xbox player0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »Well we all remember Dark Deal/Concersion before Wrobel buffed it. Aka the skill no Sorc slotted. It's the version of a Sorc class burst heal outside pets. If you nerf it again then Sorcs are forced to shield stack with Healing Ward even more as Surge as flat HoT is no burst heal. Sure, you could tone down the secondary resource gain. But again, this will just enforce more shield stacks. Nobody wants that.
I don't want Dark Deal nerfed, I want there to be a punishment for getting interrupted.
Ah. The DK chains treatment. Ask any DK how much fun that was getting charged Magicka when the skill didn't connect.
It's not about my fun level, it's about balance. I have nothing invested in cost reduction or stam regen on a stam sorc because I don't need it. Every other class will need to sacrifice for sustain except Stam Sorc.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There was an interview with Soren Johnson, lead developer of Civilization IV as part of the game manual back in the day. He was asked about design philosophy. In Short he was saying just he took the punishing things from Civ III and turned them into rewarding choices. And he was right. Good design is having rewarding choices. Not choices that suck less. Go figure which one is the ZOS way.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available. Also the cast time gets extended by 0.2 seconds in the future I believe.
Counter play available? Free zero cost failed channel and cc immunity. Yea great counter play.
I think a great indirect nerf to this would be not allowing sorcs to change the skills on their overload bar.0 -
wimhwimladimf✭✭✭If Sorc is spamming DD he's not casting offensive skills, so just focus fire him. Even if you cant kill Sorc by yourself, as long as you can deal decent dmg, sorc will be forced to spam DD and wont be able to kill you either.0
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wimhwimladimf wrote: »If Sorc is spamming DD he's not casting offensive skills, so just focus fire him. Even if you cant kill Sorc by yourself, as long as you can deal decent dmg, sorc will be forced to spam DD and wont be able to kill you either.
Or I'll try twice, and if I keep getting interrupted I'll drink a pot instead and DD when I can CC you. DD is zero risk. It's not the heal or the stamina return that's really an issue. If I can pull it off, it's very powerful and if I can't there's nothing lost.1 -
Paraflex✭✭✭✭Ya it's amazing how everyone's taking big hits except for sorcs and dark deal....little one sided at this point!Hollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank
Max Stam/Mag Dk
Max Stam Sorc
Max Stam/Mag NB
Don't care to dps much so I heal.1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wimhwimladimf wrote: »If Sorc is spamming DD he's not casting offensive skills, so just focus fire him. Even if you cant kill Sorc by yourself, as long as you can deal decent dmg, sorc will be forced to spam DD and wont be able to kill you either.
No smart sorc is spamming DD. They use it after combat.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow the sorc hate is real... Dark exchange takes alot of time to cast, if you're losing to someone who is able to cast these frequently you should be checking something on your end, not the sorc's.
The magicka version is extremely punishing on your stamina pool, and the stamina version takes alot of resources from your utility skills. Nothing but high risk / high reward.
Not even gonna comment about this skill on a PVE setting.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wimhwimladimf wrote: »If Sorc is spamming DD he's not casting offensive skills, so just focus fire him. Even if you cant kill Sorc by yourself, as long as you can deal decent dmg, sorc will be forced to spam DD and wont be able to kill you either.
No smart sorc is spamming DD. They use it after combat.
How is that relevant to sorc sustain being OP?@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »It's a cast time ability that's interruptible not only by bash but by any interrupt including venom arrow for stam users and crushing shock for mag users. There is counterplay available. Also the cast time gets extended by 0.2 seconds in the future I believe.
Counter play available? Free zero cost failed channel and cc immunity. Yea great counter play.
I think a great indirect nerf to this would be not allowing sorcs to change the skills on their overload bar.
And end up with Force Pulse or Elemental Blockade on that bar?@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Wow the sorc hate is real... Dark exchange takes alot of time to cast, if you're losing to someone who is able to cast these frequently you should be checking something on your end, not the sorc's.
The magicka version is extremely punishing on your stamina pool, and the stamina version takes alot of resources from your utility skills. Nothing but high risk / high reward.
Not even gonna comment about this skill on a PVE setting.
Biggest load of crap ever, at least as far as stam sorc is concerned. For Dark Conversion, yes there is more risk sacrificing stamina for magicka. Spending magicka for stamina though...that's nothing.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have accepted it. I do not care about dark deal anymore, I convinced myself that I'll create an immensely fat orc stam sorc and roll with it and the ancient Greece toga thing outfit. Gonna be glorious!2 -
Paraflex✭✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Wow the sorc hate is real... Dark exchange takes alot of time to cast, if you're losing to someone who is able to cast these frequently you should be checking something on your end, not the sorc's.
The magicka version is extremely punishing on your stamina pool, and the stamina version takes alot of resources from your utility skills. Nothing but high risk / high reward.
Not even gonna comment about this skill on a PVE setting.
What are you smoking? This skill is great in PvP and PvE....totally unbalanced to give a class this ability for so long nerf everyone's sustain but not touch dark conversion.
People will be able to run 800 Stam recovery in heavy armor next patch due to this one skill and still stack wep damageHollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank
Max Stam/Mag Dk
Max Stam Sorc
Max Stam/Mag NB
Don't care to dps much so I heal.1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have accepted it. I do not care about dark deal anymore, I convinced myself that I'll create an immensely fat orc stam sorc and roll with it and the ancient Greece toga thing outfit. Gonna be glorious!
I'm happy to roll with a stam sorc, almost exclusively, too. But to pretend that it isn't at an enormous advantage in light of the upcoming sustain changes is just plain disingenuous.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Wow the sorc hate is real... Dark exchange takes alot of time to cast, if you're losing to someone who is able to cast these frequently you should be checking something on your end, not the sorc's.
The magicka version is extremely punishing on your stamina pool, and the stamina version takes alot of resources from your utility skills. Nothing but high risk / high reward.
Not even gonna comment about this skill on a PVE setting.
What are you smoking? This skill is great in PvP and PvE....totally unbalanced to give a class this ability for so long nerf everyone's sustain but not touch dark conversion.
People will be able to run 800 Stam recovery in heavy armor next patch due to this one skill and still stack wep damage
I do that right now. But I think I'm at around 700 stam regen. Nothing changes on my stam sorc in the next update.0
