Where Did 1vx Come From? Is It Possible In Other Games?

raviour

Aw @Valencer Luci 'the innocent puglord' Civello. Will never forget when your nightcap crew took down every single wall and door at Aleswell vs little old me then you relogged and helped me defend, vetting on my last emp, was hilarious. Still you are not forgiven for use spy to get and hold emp. I had to depose you naked using stonefist just to have fun, killing blow your pug with heavy punches was jokes. Glad swaggy liked it at DC though. RIP Blackwater, with no CP it will never be the same without old Luciano Caligula. (err i only saw u solo like 3 times, maybe u solod for necrotic lag)

1vx is for Tony Montoya and DC only, we can do it and enjoy it.

Say hello to my little friend

Subversus

Xsorus wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

From SWTOR, GW2, TSW, No its not possible, 1v2 yes if you are good or you sort of gank players 1v1 out of zergs but if more than 2 go against you they would have to be way under level and have not the correct gear on or something.
This is the only mmo Ive played where players can go 1vX not because the other players are bad but due to rng mechanics and the due to the massive amount of builds possible.

But saying that, most other mmo's have gear sets that are more balanced i.e in swtor if two players with same skill but one has standard pvp gear on and other player has min maxed, then the min maxed player should win all the time but would still be able to lose if the other player was better. In ESO you could have a magic users in Light amrour with like 1400 spell damage vs some one with 3k spell damage who will hit hell of a lot harder and heal a lot better and would probably 1 shot the other person with no hope of ever losing.

It was possible in all three of those games depending on build and class....I would say it easiest in SWTOR at the start (This is some coming from someone who played a Pyro Powertech who basically could instant kill damn near every class with burst) TSW there was a build or two I ran that could take on multiple people, Very tanky but that was very early in the games life so not sure if its still possible.

GW2 though...That is hit and miss, I got videos of me taking on multiple people and winning...but holy ***...was it hard...and it was hard for ONE reason and one reason only..the freakin Downed System...without that system in place...GW2 pvp would of worked just like ESO's

Pyro PT burst was the easiest to shut down if you were any good at the game, just saying

Derra

Xsorus wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

From SWTOR, GW2, TSW, No its not possible, 1v2 yes if you are good or you sort of gank players 1v1 out of zergs but if more than 2 go against you they would have to be way under level and have not the correct gear on or something.
This is the only mmo Ive played where players can go 1vX not because the other players are bad but due to rng mechanics and the due to the massive amount of builds possible.

But saying that, most other mmo's have gear sets that are more balanced i.e in swtor if two players with same skill but one has standard pvp gear on and other player has min maxed, then the min maxed player should win all the time but would still be able to lose if the other player was better. In ESO you could have a magic users in Light amrour with like 1400 spell damage vs some one with 3k spell damage who will hit hell of a lot harder and heal a lot better and would probably 1 shot the other person with no hope of ever losing.

It was possible in all three of those games depending on build and class....I would say it easiest in SWTOR at the start (This is some coming from someone who played a Pyro Powertech who basically could instant kill damn near every class with burst) TSW there was a build or two I ran that could take on multiple people, Very tanky but that was very early in the games life so not sure if its still possible.

GW2 though...That is hit and miss, I got videos of me taking on multiple people and winning...but holy ***...was it hard...and it was hard for ONE reason and one reason only..the freakin Downed System...without that system in place...GW2 pvp would of worked just like ESO's

Swtor maro/operative at launch were awesome 1vX classes - and that in bgs.

GW2 i did it as thief aswell - but only in the very beginning before people fully understood how to (ab)use the downed system - which i still think was the worst death mechanic i´ver ever encounteren in an mmo.

mtwiggz

Don't think I've ever actually heard the term "1vX" previous to ESO. Although outnumbered fighting is definitely not exclusive to ESO.

kuro-dono

Rickter wrote: »

1vX probably has a bad rep due to the players themselves. Too many times 1vX montage videos are boasted to "EXPOSE baddies"

like look at that. it seethes toxicity. ESO pvp is practically one of a kind right now on the market. Cyro isnt just open world pvp. Its a big place riddled with PvE objectives along with keep siege warfare options. for a new player its VERY daunting.

I can honestly say i had no idea what i was doing when i first took pvp seriously. i didnt even know where nikel or bleakers was, i was so green. so if a new player and his band of newbie friends are getting steam rolled because they literally dont know wtf to do, and then become essentially bullied and insulted as being "baddies" of course thats going to leave a bitter taste in someone's mouth.

There is a small long time knowledgeable pvp crowd. You all know each other and take every opportunity to pat each other on the butt whenever you get a chance and it is what it is. Its the subculture that ESO PvP has created much like the Trade Guild Subculture and the PvE subculture. thats the beautiful thing about ESO. But the PvP subculture in particular had a responsibility to the future generations and quite frankly, you failed.

you chased personal glory. and now people in other games look at ESO PvP and shake their heads.

Not all of you. There are exceptions. Some have fostered and given back to the community. Hats off to you. But honestly this shock and confusion as to why ESO PvP community is generally perceived as negative shouldnt be surprising.

Could not really say it much better than this. tho you giving bit too much credit to eso pvp community. and you are bit too gentle in your words. but i forgive you as you state the fact.

Sugaroverdose

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is my first MMO. I didn't know any of the terminology of MMOs when I started playing this one since I hadn't played one before. However, some of the terms that I learned through this game I assumed existed across other MMOs and maybe even other genres. But all of my friends in this game who have played other MMOs said that they hadn't heard of 1vx before they started playing this game and have never played another game where you could kill others solo while you were outnumbered. Is 1vx a term exclusive to this game? Are there other games where 1vx is a valid and possible playstyle?

I'm pretty sure that 1vX was always a thing, in early WoW succubus was pretty helpful to my warlock to do such.

raviour

@rickter ye you are kinda right about being confused as a new player but its like nature makes you remember bad experiences more than the good ones to teach you, i would say only 5% of old players emote with the enemy while the enemy kills their own alliance. It's some kinda nerdy self confidence thing. A lot of us old players are confident and get on with fighting for the map. Many of us play solo near castles or gank. If we 1vX some players then we get very happy n might even record it, ofc there are some very good players that set out to 1vX but they will ignore the other good players they know coz of the risk. It's the same with troll build players (similar to 1vXers) they totally ignore players that they know are good but we ignore them because we don't wanna chase them around for 20 mins. It's not some masonic conspiracy.

t3hdubzy

Counter strike.

Kay1

NBrookus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

In a game that has well-balanced combat centered around high TTK, it is not possible. ESO has a very low, and not necessarily by design, TTK (not Call of Duty low, but close) so you are able to dive in for a kill, dip out to recover, then dive in for another kill when CDs are up etc.

I came from LotRO before ESO and the measure of skill there was 1v1s. There was no term for 1vX, though it was possible at various times by various classes under certain conditions that were inherently unbalanced. Most of the time when you encountered more than 1 opponent alone you ran away, but a high ranked player (not insignificant stat increases were tied to ranks) could kill 2 or three low ranked players without too much trouble, if the conditions were right.

In ESO, the ability of players to 1vX showcases the power creep inherent in our uncapped combat system. It's not really a good sign.

I disagree. I think the ability of players to 1vX showcases the skill level difference between said players. There's nothing in ESO outside Emperor that grants you special stats/abilities that other players don't have access to. That you use the correct ones and at the right time in the right situations should set you apart from others who don't even in outnumbered scenarios.

This is true sometimes, but in many of the 1vX videos the opponents are low CP, newbies to pvp or even non-vets. Not because you can't 1vX leveled/ranked characters, but because the flashy quick domination kills make for more exciting video.

I 1vX people with dromathra skin and Flawless conqueror, 2 of the last guys on my last 1vX video were people in the Trials Leaderboard.

I know the 99% uploads videos killing 10 noobs but some of us rather upload a 1v3 against very good players than a 1v9 against players with blue gear.

Rickter

I just think 1vX is just stupid. im sorry. sorry for the abrasive opinion too. but i honestly just cannot wrap my head around it. Like, you come into a game widely advertised as "large scale siege warfare" and then you create a meta revolving around the exact opposite.

All the "media" (twitch streamers) surrounding the game jump onboard with this meta and shame large scale by labeling it as "zerging"

this is all centered around the basis that in large groups, specified roles actually can develop which then regulates players to perform one function instead of multiple on the fly roles which in their opinion is the true display of skill.

but here is the actual truth: you need the zergs. you cannot be the 1vXer you are with out them. your precious meta literally relies on the existence of the very thing you shame. hence, its stupid. plain and simple. gg get rekt.

sorry if that strikes a nerve and presses some buttons but the truth hurts some times.

TL;DR: start showing more respect for zergs because without them, you wouldnt exist.

Disclaimer: i say "you" alot but its not directed at one person specifically. "You" is simply the generalized 1vX crowd.

EDIT: you should be sending thank you whispers to the raid leaders that have the balls and patience to wrangle together a bunch of cats so you can have the challenge youre looking for. get rekt suckers. seriously. Rickter dropped the #truth again. ouch.

kuro-dono

damn rickter! way more effort this time! good job! me likey!

LeifErickson

Rickter wrote: »

I just think 1vX is just stupid. im sorry. sorry for the abrasive opinion too. but i honestly just cannot wrap my head around it. Like, you come into a game widely advertised as "large scale siege warfare" and then you create a meta revolving around the exact opposite.

All the "media" (twitch streamers) surrounding the game jump onboard with this meta and shame large scale by labeling it as "zerging"

this is all centered around the basis that in large groups, specified roles actually can develop which then regulates players to perform one function instead of multiple on the fly roles which in their opinion is the true display of skill.

but here is the actual truth: you need the zergs. you cannot be the 1vXer you are with out them. your precious meta literally relies on the existence of the very thing you shame. hence, its stupid. plain and simple. gg get rekt.

sorry if that strikes a nerve and presses some buttons but the truth hurts some times.

TL;DR: start showing more respect for zergs because without them, you wouldnt exist.

Disclaimer: i say "you" alot but its not directed at one person specifically. "You" is simply the generalized 1vX crowd.

EDIT: you should be sending thank you whispers to the raid leaders that have the balls and patience to wrangle together a bunch of cats so you can have the challenge youre looking for. get rekt suckers. seriously. Rickter dropped the #truth again. ouch.

K

Lexxypwns

Rickter wrote: »

I just think 1vX is just stupid. im sorry. sorry for the abrasive opinion too. but i honestly just cannot wrap my head around it. Like, you come into a game widely advertised as "large scale siege warfare" and then you create a meta revolving around the exact opposite.

All the "media" (twitch streamers) surrounding the game jump onboard with this meta and shame large scale by labeling it as "zerging"

this is all centered around the basis that in large groups, specified roles actually can develop which then regulates players to perform one function instead of multiple on the fly roles which in their opinion is the true display of skill.

but here is the actual truth: you need the zergs. you cannot be the 1vXer you are with out them. your precious meta literally relies on the existence of the very thing you shame. hence, its stupid. plain and simple. gg get rekt.

sorry if that strikes a nerve and presses some buttons but the truth hurts some times.

TL;DR: start showing more respect for zergs because without them, you wouldnt exist.

Disclaimer: i say "you" alot but its not directed at one person specifically. "You" is simply the generalized 1vX crowd.

EDIT: you should be sending thank you whispers to the raid leaders that have the balls and patience to wrangle together a bunch of cats so you can have the challenge youre looking for. get rekt suckers. seriously. Rickter dropped the #truth again. ouch.

The problem with zerging was always the impact it had on the servers. The reason zerging is less vilified now is because everyone realized this game is a joke

Rickter

oops i think i damaged some egos. how about instead of narrowing your eyes in disdain at what i wrote: you see the worth behind the message and re-evaluate how you conduct your discussions on these forums?

ESO PvP is not a joke. whats the joke exactly? who is "everyone" that "realized this game is a joke"? lol like who are you to speak for the silent majority?

lol. omg. . . . like i cannot believe the hypocrisy and blatant denial some times. . .

look, everyone has a preferred way to play. the game offers many many many options. it would be best if EVERYONE came to an understanding with each other.

I love large scale groups. I think getting a large group and going toe to toe is like watching GoT "Battle_of_the_***" or Braveheart

I love "small scale". The last 3 nights ive been in cyrodiil with groups of 2-5 and its been really fun! its like being Justice League

I love 1vX. I dont do it often, and im not claiming to be good at it but i think the videos are enjoyable when they arent filled with hate shame. I admire the ones that can pull it off very well, you know, barely escaping death because they were able to LoS at the right time behind that barrier or tree and then regaining resources fast or just enough to go at it again - its great entertainment, really.

But until you people understand that all of these things operate in a harmony, then i will not grant the dignity of kissing [snip] to a currently self centered (most of them) minority that day in and day out create threads shaming the very thing that makes their preferred playstyle even possible.

like gtfo

LeifErickson

Rickter wrote: »

oops i think i damaged some egos. how about instead of narrowing your eyes in disdain at what i wrote: you see the worth behind the message and re-evaluate how you conduct your discussions on these forums?

ESO PvP is not a joke. whats the joke exactly? who is "everyone" that "realized this game is a joke"? lol like who are you to speak for the silent majority?

lol. omg. . . . like i cannot believe the hypocrisy and blatant denial some times. . .

look, everyone has a preferred way to play. the game offers many many many options. it would be best if EVERYONE came to an understanding with each other.

I love large scale groups. I think getting a large group and going toe to toe is like watching GoT "Battle_of_the_***" or Braveheart

I love "small scale". The last 3 nights ive been in cyrodiil with groups of 2-5 and its been really fun! its like being Justice League

I love 1vX. I dont do it often, and im not claiming to be good at it but i think the videos are enjoyable when they arent filled with hate shame. I admire the ones that can pull it off very well, you know, barely escaping death because they were able to LoS at the right time behind that barrier or tree and then regaining resources fast or just enough to go at it again - its great entertainment, really.

But until you people understand that all of these things operate in a harmony, then i will not grant the dignity of kissing [snip] to a currently self centered (most of them) minority that day in and day out create threads shaming the very thing that makes their preferred playstyle even possible.

like gtfo

Are you saying this thread shames zerging? Like I don't even know how this relates to this thread at all. What was even said to make you go on this rant?

Rickter

LeifErickson wrote: »

Are you saying this thread shames zerging? Like I don't even know how this relates to this thread at all. What was even said to make you go on this rant?

does that make it that less relevant? the OP asked where 1vX came from. i explicitly stated it in the post prior to the one you just quoted.

but yeah, you can try harder at dismissing my opinion because you dont like it. thats cool too.

The-Baconator

Rickter wrote: »

oops i think i damaged some egos. how about instead of narrowing your eyes in disdain at what i wrote: you see the worth behind the message and re-evaluate how you conduct your discussions on these forums?

ESO PvP is not a joke. whats the joke exactly? who is "everyone" that "realized this game is a joke"? lol like who are you to speak for the silent majority?

lol. omg. . . . like i cannot believe the hypocrisy and blatant denial some times. . .

look, everyone has a preferred way to play. the game offers many many many options. it would be best if EVERYONE came to an understanding with each other.

I love large scale groups. I think getting a large group and going toe to toe is like watching GoT "Battle_of_the_***" or Braveheart

I love "small scale". The last 3 nights ive been in cyrodiil with groups of 2-5 and its been really fun! its like being Justice League

I love 1vX. I dont do it often, and im not claiming to be good at it but i think the videos are enjoyable when they arent filled with hate shame. I admire the ones that can pull it off very well, you know, barely escaping death because they were able to LoS at the right time behind that barrier or tree and then regaining resources fast or just enough to go at it again - its great entertainment, really.

But until you people understand that all of these things operate in a harmony, then i will not grant the dignity of kissing [snip] to a currently self centered (most of them) minority that day in and day out create threads shaming the very thing that makes their preferred playstyle even possible.

like gtfo

"silent majority" that believes that PvP in it's current iteration isn't a complete joke, seriously? The game has been bleeding players that love large scale (+12) medium scale (6-12) and small scale for the last +year because they game is a joke in every scenario and play style. Large scale is a joke because every action you take is centered around both utilizing and countering one OP damage ult (destro) and one OP utility ult (negate), there is nothing else for a group that wants to remain remotely competitive. Medium scale is a joke for many for the same reasons along with the fact that the meta of destro + negate is incredibly punishing (especially for the 6-8 category) when you are outnumbered by people running a meta setup--largely because it is honestly the least difficult to utilize correctly of any meta I have seen since barrier was nerfed. Then of course there is small scale, which has arguably been in worse shape for a while for any number of reasons.

But then again, this "silent majority" that thinks PvP is absolutely spectacular will be the saving grace for ZOS in the face of the infinite army of 10 year olds raging on the forums at how broken their game for no good reasons, right? This of course explains why every platform on every mega server has been bleeding players over the last year(s), right?

And for every bit of clarity, I am the type of person that every twitch streamer on my platform would point at as the reason why this game is so bad--when they are surfing +40 people trying to zerg us down--and I still think this game is in absolutely horrible shape. So please take your hypothesis that this is just small scale conspiracy of elitist 1vXers who hate group play elsewhere, because I guarantee I'm not the only one in this position either.

Rickter

The-Baconator wrote: »

Large scale is a joke because every action you take is centered around both utilizing and countering one OP damage ult (destro) and one OP utility ult (negate),

I have to disagree. Do you remember when negate was an *actual* joke? I literally remember a conversation in TS where we were wishing negate would be useful becuase it had so much potential. I love negate. Destro ult- eh. . . yeah you got me there.

The-Baconator wrote: »

there is nothing else for a group that wants to remain remotely competitive.

I have to disagree. You can formulate strategy to get the other team to dump ults first and then counter. its a game of chess with the competitve larger groups. chess for you youngsters is an art.

The-Baconator wrote: »

Medium scale is a joke for many for the same reasons along with the fact that the meta of destro + negate is incredibly punishing (especially for the 6-8 category) when you are outnumbered by people running a meta setup--largely because it is honestly the least difficult to utilize correctly of any meta I have seen since barrier was nerfed.

Medium scale (thats a new one) can arguably counter ulti dump easier than large scale

The-Baconator wrote: »

Then of course there is small scale, which has arguably been in worse shape for a while for any number of reasons.

its simple risk vs reward. the risk is running small scale. the reward is winning against all odds. cant sympathize with you sorry.

The-Baconator wrote: »

But then again, this "silent majority" that thinks PvP is absolutely spectacular will be the saving grace for ZOS in the face of the infinite army of 10 year olds raging on the forums at how broken their game for no good reasons, right? This of course explains why every platform on every mega server has been bleeding players over the last year(s), right?

I need some actual data to take this accusation seriously. a degree of player bleed is understandable and expected. but player bleed doesnt eqaute to "bad game". a lot of raid leaders get burnt out and large scale grouping becomes less and less desired due to the strain on the leaders. Its kind of why we havent been to the moon in so many decades - the cost cant be justified. (i know that was random but google "why havent we been to the moon" and let it auto fill - some interesting articles)

The-Baconator wrote: »

So please take your hypothesis that this is just small scale conspiracy of elitist 1vXers who hate group play elsewhere

no.

Its not a hypothesis. you reallythink its ZOS running people away? you think its ZOS creating the outside perception that ESO PvP is toxic? no. its the players. take responsibility.

LeifErickson

Rickter wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Are you saying this thread shames zerging? Like I don't even know how this relates to this thread at all. What was even said to make you go on this rant?

does that make it that less relevant? the OP asked where 1vX came from. i explicitly stated it in the post prior to the one you just quoted.

but yeah, you can try harder at dismissing my opinion because you dont like it. thats cool too.

Please show me where I stated that I don't like your opinion. And I just reread all of your posts and you never answered the thread's question, if you are saying that you did.

Rickter wrote: »

I just think 1vX is just stupid. im sorry. sorry for the abrasive opinion too. but i honestly just cannot wrap my head around it. Like, you come into a game widely advertised as "large scale siege warfare" and then you create a meta revolving around the exact opposite.

Rickter wrote: »

I love 1vX.

Lexxypwns

Rickter wrote: »

oops i think i damaged some egos. how about instead of narrowing your eyes in disdain at what i wrote: you see the worth behind the message and re-evaluate how you conduct your discussions on these forums?

ESO PvP is not a joke. whats the joke exactly? who is "everyone" that "realized this game is a joke"? lol like who are you to speak for the silent majority?

lol. omg. . . . like i cannot believe the hypocrisy and blatant denial some times. . .

look, everyone has a preferred way to play. the game offers many many many options. it would be best if EVERYONE came to an understanding with each other.

I love large scale groups. I think getting a large group and going toe to toe is like watching GoT "Battle_of_the_***" or Braveheart

I love "small scale". The last 3 nights ive been in cyrodiil with groups of 2-5 and its been really fun! its like being Justice League

I love 1vX. I dont do it often, and im not claiming to be good at it but i think the videos are enjoyable when they arent filled with hate shame. I admire the ones that can pull it off very well, you know, barely escaping death because they were able to LoS at the right time behind that barrier or tree and then regaining resources fast or just enough to go at it again - its great entertainment, really.

But until you people understand that all of these things operate in a harmony, then i will not grant the dignity of kissing [snip] to a currently self centered (most of them) minority that day in and day out create threads shaming the very thing that makes their preferred playstyle even possible.

like gtfo

I'm not dissing zergers at all, I'm simply explaining why there used to be disdain. I used to run in large scale guild groups with Hijinx, IR, Vehemence, Short Bus, LoM, etc. The only reason I don't now is because my play time is sporadic and I can't have a group counting on me to fill a certain role then just up and disappear.

I remember running in IR and getting hate tells all day about our "lag switch" and whatnot, that was the real reason to dislike big guild groups, because the servers struggled to handle them. As a result, small scale and solo became more popular and the disdain for bigger groups grew.

As far as "everyone" realizing ESO pvp is a "joke" I mean it in the sense that nobody looks at ESO as a balanced competitive environment. When you stop thinking this game is going to offer you real, balanced, competitive, PVP then you stop taking things like that 40 man zerg that trampled your group so seriously. When you think about MoBAs or games with competitive arena pvp you see that having a 4,8,X man group that can dominate is considered "skill" in games, however people tried to translate that to ESO and post dynamic ulti gen that just results in you getting outnumbered and bulldozed. These competitive types then have 2 choices, get their panties in a bunch and leave or relax and stop taking the game so seriously because you're absolutely unequivocally going to get zerged at some point. Furthermore, most 1vX or small scale is perpetrated on the back of cheese sets, builds, and combos. That's what makes pvp in this game a joke.

I only Solo/1vX because I don't like people counting on me and the potential of me having to stop playing abruptly means that's a pretty likely scenario. That doesn't mean I think people in large guild groups suck, furthermore I've even spoken on these forums about the skill required to run an effective large group, idk what your deal is man.

TBois

Zos has been and is running people away with lag and load screens. Zerging was vilified in the past because of lag. Guilds started calling out other guilds that stacked raids. This toxicity is in large part due to the frustrating environment we have played in for 3 years... lag. Zos had to reduce their population caps in cyrodiil, killing their own admission that this game is about large scale battles.

The PvP players tried to save and arguably did save the game by calling out faction stacking when it cause debilitating lag, and they continue to save it by balancing population by switching factions

Edit: grammar

Lexxypwns

TBois wrote: »

Zos has been and is running people away with lag and load screens. Merging was vilified in the past because of lag. Guilds started calling out other guilds that stacked raids. This toxicity is in large part due to the frustrating environment we have played in for 3 years... lag. Did had to reduce their population caps in cyrodiil, hitting their own admission that this game is about large scale battles.

The PvP players tried to save and arguably did save the game by calling out faction stacking when it cause debilitating lag, and they continue to save it by balancing population by switching factions

quoted for truth.

I remember pre-lightning patch where guild coordination was considered a great tactical play, but after that stacking raids became trashy.

Rickter

LeifErickson wrote: »

Please show me where I stated that I don't like your opinion. And I just reread all of your posts and you never answered the thread's question, if you are saying that you did.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4078942/#Comment_4078942

I yeah sorry i should have said i think I think the 1vX mentality of being "better" than the alternatives is stupid. because it is. i'll edit if you'd like?

LeifErickson wrote: »

As far as "everyone" realizing ESO pvp is a "joke" I mean it in the sense that nobody looks at ESO as a balanced competitive environment. When you stop thinking this game is going to offer you real, balanced, competitive, PVP then you stop taking things like that 40 man zerg that trampled your group so seriously. When you think about MoBAs or games with competitive arena pvp you see that having a 4,8,X man group that can dominate is considered "skill" in games, however people tried to translate that to ESO and post dynamic ulti gen that just results in you getting outnumbered and bulldozed. These competitive types then have 2 choices, get their panties in a bunch and leave or relax and stop taking the game so seriously because you're absolutely unequivocally going to get zerged at some point.

So let me legitimately ask a question: why was there ever an expectation of "real, balanced, competitive PvP"? Thats a serious question because when GW2 was coming out, i remember that they specifically stated they wanted PvP to be an "eSport" - thats a huge statement to make about a game. eSports are taken very seriously and ArenaNet was basically saying that was their aim.

I dont recall any such bold statements from ZOS. They advertised the large scale battles and the amount of players the server could handle. that was their big hook.

we now know it was false black lies, but regardless, i dont think your explanation that the server load caused small scale to hold up.

It was Sypher PK. ok? straight up, he started putting out 1vX videos and like i said its wildly entertaining at face value it devolved into much worse though. 1vXers were putting out videos to shame and trash talk others. "EXPOSED"

and then its turned into where maybe you personally didnt say anything about zergers but look at the forums. like i dont need to snapshot or link all the threads that shame large scale groups. come on. there is toxicity towards zerging and its hurting the game more than its helping because all three playstyles have their place in ESO. and thats the beauty of it

Rohamad_Ali

thread went Xv1 Vs 1vX ?

LeifErickson

Rickter wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Please show me where I stated that I don't like your opinion. And I just reread all of your posts and you never answered the thread's question, if you are saying that you did.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4078942/#Comment_4078942
I yeah sorry i should have said i think I think the 1vX mentality of being "better" than the alternatives is stupid. because it is. i'll edit if you'd like?

I don't get how that comment answers the question. You are saying 1vx comes from exposing baddies?

Lexxypwns

Rickter wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Please show me where I stated that I don't like your opinion. And I just reread all of your posts and you never answered the thread's question, if you are saying that you did.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4078942/#Comment_4078942

I yeah sorry i should have said i think I think the 1vX mentality of being "better" than the alternatives is stupid. because it is. i'll edit if you'd like?

LeifErickson wrote: »

As far as "everyone" realizing ESO pvp is a "joke" I mean it in the sense that nobody looks at ESO as a balanced competitive environment. When you stop thinking this game is going to offer you real, balanced, competitive, PVP then you stop taking things like that 40 man zerg that trampled your group so seriously. When you think about MoBAs or games with competitive arena pvp you see that having a 4,8,X man group that can dominate is considered "skill" in games, however people tried to translate that to ESO and post dynamic ulti gen that just results in you getting outnumbered and bulldozed. These competitive types then have 2 choices, get their panties in a bunch and leave or relax and stop taking the game so seriously because you're absolutely unequivocally going to get zerged at some point.

So let me legitimately ask a question: why was there ever an expectation of "real, balanced, competitive PvP"? Thats a serious question because when GW2 was coming out, i remember that they specifically stated they wanted PvP to be an "eSport" - thats a huge statement to make about a game. eSports are taken very seriously and ArenaNet was basically saying that was their aim.

I dont recall any such bold statements from ZOS. They advertised the large scale battles and the amount of players the server could handle. that was their big hook.

we now know it was false black lies, but regardless, i dont think your explanation that the server load caused small scale to hold up.

It was Sypher PK. ok? straight up, he started putting out 1vX videos and like i said its wildly entertaining at face value it devolved into much worse though. 1vXers were putting out videos to shame and trash talk others. "EXPOSED"

and then its turned into where maybe you personally didnt say anything about zergers but look at the forums. like i dont need to snapshot or link all the threads that shame large scale groups. come on. there is toxicity towards zerging and its hurting the game more than its helping because all three playstyles have their place in ESO. and thats the beauty of it

Actually, you clearly don't know what you think you know. At launch and up to patch 1.2 you could have battles between literally 300+ people and have no real lag or frame rate issues. The game delivered nearly flawlessly on its advertised large scale pvp battles UNTIL the lighting patch came and with it the bot code(that doesn't work AT ALL). After that patch is when performance started to degrade.

Sypher might have been the first person to be youtube famous off this game, but 1vX existed basically from launch, it just used even cheesier mechanics than we do at present. Solo defending a room in a keep with a group oil and dynamic ulti letting you drop banner after banner for example.

Small scale still existed in these days because dynamic ulti gen allowed you a fighting chance no matter how outnumbered you were, you just had to make sure you kept that damage up and those crits rolling. However, there was no stigma attached to zergs because the server could somewhat handle it and there were game mechanics in place that let you have a fighting chance no matter how bad the numbers seemed. When that ended people started getting upset about not being able to beat people that greatly outnumbered them and that's when the toxic "1vX mentality" started imo.

Subversus

The-Baconator

Rickter wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

Large scale is a joke because every action you take is centered around both utilizing and countering one OP damage ult (destro) and one OP utility ult (negate),

I have to disagree. Do you remember when negate was an *actual* joke? I literally remember a conversation in TS where we were wishing negate would be useful becuase it had so much potential. I love negate. Destro ult- eh. . . yeah you got me there.

The-Baconator wrote: »

there is nothing else for a group that wants to remain remotely competitive.

I have to disagree. You can formulate strategy to get the other team to dump ults first and then counter. its a game of chess with the competitve larger groups. chess for you youngsters is an art.

The-Baconator wrote: »

Medium scale is a joke for many for the same reasons along with the fact that the meta of destro + negate is incredibly punishing (especially for the 6-8 category) when you are outnumbered by people running a meta setup--largely because it is honestly the least difficult to utilize correctly of any meta I have seen since barrier was nerfed.

Medium scale (thats a new one) can arguably counter ulti dump easier than large scale

The-Baconator wrote: »

Then of course there is small scale, which has arguably been in worse shape for a while for any number of reasons.

its simple risk vs reward. the risk is running small scale. the reward is winning against all odds. cant sympathize with you sorry.

The-Baconator wrote: »

But then again, this "silent majority" that thinks PvP is absolutely spectacular will be the saving grace for ZOS in the face of the infinite army of 10 year olds raging on the forums at how broken their game for no good reasons, right? This of course explains why every platform on every mega server has been bleeding players over the last year(s), right?

I need some actual data to take this accusation seriously. a degree of player bleed is understandable and expected. but player bleed doesnt eqaute to "bad game". a lot of raid leaders get burnt out and large scale grouping becomes less and less desired due to the strain on the leaders. Its kind of why we havent been to the moon in so many decades - the cost cant be justified. (i know that was random but google "why havent we been to the moon" and let it auto fill - some interesting articles)

The-Baconator wrote: »

So please take your hypothesis that this is just small scale conspiracy of elitist 1vXers who hate group play elsewhere

no.

Its not a hypothesis. you reallythink its ZOS running people away? you think its ZOS creating the outside perception that ESO PvP is toxic? no. its the players. take responsibility.

1. Negate was never an *actual* joke ironically in the one sphere of the game in which you actually play. From someone that had to deal with guilds that stacked 1-2 full raids on top of each other and seemed to have every other dps back barring barrier back when it was OP I can assure you negate was the most important ultimate we would use in scenarios like that. When you literally had to take a group from full to dead in a 1-2 second span being able to cut healing springs at the right moment was crucial in getting the wipe. That goes for when we had 5 people in group , 12 or even 24 on the handful of nights when we were stupid enough to spend time trying to train pugs, it was essential if you knew how to use it. Now it's insanely strong in just about everything but 1vX, maybe implying that it might be over performing.

2. Please wipe a good guild group without outnumbering them at 3:1 odds or kill a pug zerg\zerg guild where every other player is in 7 heavy with +30k health with synced bat swarms. Not saying you won't do it, but please lets not pretend the that meteor\batswarm dumps are even half as effective as literally half as many destro ults. I would say gimping yourself so severely is killing your competitiveness.

3. Are you making the assumption that because your playing in a medium sized group you are more likely to be more coordinated\have a better reaction time because I'm not aware of some magical group debuff that makes running with more heals, dps, and utility harder. In what universe is 4x the negates, 4x the destros, 4x the manuevers, 4x the heals etc harder to use? All the 24 man has to do is have on person use their brain when the 8 man moves to bomb and that one counter negate ruins everything regardless of how well the 8 played up to that point if the 24 has 2-3 destros running when they loose their heals. Obvious this doesn't end badly for the smaller group every time, but we have now reached the counterpoint of the barrier meta where the larger group has traded stupid survivability with stupid killing power.

4. Risk vs Reward? What are you even saying? People normally small scale because they get bored of the destro ult syncing and crown hugging you have to do in group play or they don't enjoy it in the first place. My point is that small scale of this kind (especially solo play) is hanging on by a thread. Mobility is down, poisons are everywhere, and every other person is a tank holding block with +30k health procing 10k PotL off of other players PotLs.

5. If people could only make an argument on this forum with what I would consider "hard data" every poster save maybe a literal handful would only be reading and I think most would agree with this, we are only speaking to our own experience and what we see\hear from people that play on other platforms\megaservers. My assessment is based off of the continued decisions by ZOS to close down campaigns over the last year on every megaserver and how on my own I have watched 3 campaigns that were triple poplocked at pre IC launch recede to only one that is poplocked on the weekends with only two alternatives--as opposed to nearly a dozen--available. Over three quarters of the pvp population getting "burnt out" and leaving forever isn't natural, which is at least what I've seen on my megaserver over the last two years.

6. People are running away from the game because fundamentally it isn't good, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Not that I disagree that certain toxic attitudes or behaviors aren't widely held and exhibited, but they were certainly a thing when the game was in it's heyday on console leading up to IC release and the game had successfully baselined a half year post launch at a very respectable population. Now PvP is literally hanging by a thread with most of the guilds having moved on to play other games, leaving what remains of those that they spent years farming to run circles around the map zerging down the map with a meta where the floor for successfully outplaying another smaller group has never been lower. You cannot pretend that PvP is currently in good shape.

Asgari

When cyro was really populated and we had multiple full servers on PC NA, I personally found it incredibly rewarding being able to go to a resource and hold up a handful of players who were now not helping their faction. If they gave up trying to kill me i just sieged the keep solo from the tower until more came.

This used to be awesome and in my opinion was a nice assistance in spreading out the map and making areas which arent in the main fast lane be something of relevance. In 1.3 when only a few of us could solo take keeps it was crazy. Now its literally who outnumbers who and skill really doesnt matter.

Even the tactics we used to play to crush other groups dont really matter with how stacking works these days. It is pretty sad.

kuro-dono

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Please show me where I stated that I don't like your opinion. And I just reread all of your posts and you never answered the thread's question, if you are saying that you did.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4078942/#Comment_4078942

I yeah sorry i should have said i think I think the 1vX mentality of being "better" than the alternatives is stupid. because it is. i'll edit if you'd like?

LeifErickson wrote: »

As far as "everyone" realizing ESO pvp is a "joke" I mean it in the sense that nobody looks at ESO as a balanced competitive environment. When you stop thinking this game is going to offer you real, balanced, competitive, PVP then you stop taking things like that 40 man zerg that trampled your group so seriously. When you think about MoBAs or games with competitive arena pvp you see that having a 4,8,X man group that can dominate is considered "skill" in games, however people tried to translate that to ESO and post dynamic ulti gen that just results in you getting outnumbered and bulldozed. These competitive types then have 2 choices, get their panties in a bunch and leave or relax and stop taking the game so seriously because you're absolutely unequivocally going to get zerged at some point.

So let me legitimately ask a question: why was there ever an expectation of "real, balanced, competitive PvP"? Thats a serious question because when GW2 was coming out, i remember that they specifically stated they wanted PvP to be an "eSport" - thats a huge statement to make about a game. eSports are taken very seriously and ArenaNet was basically saying that was their aim.

I dont recall any such bold statements from ZOS. They advertised the large scale battles and the amount of players the server could handle. that was their big hook.

we now know it was false black lies, but regardless, i dont think your explanation that the server load caused small scale to hold up.

It was Sypher PK. ok? straight up, he started putting out 1vX videos and like i said its wildly entertaining at face value it devolved into much worse though. 1vXers were putting out videos to shame and trash talk others. "EXPOSED"

and then its turned into where maybe you personally didnt say anything about zergers but look at the forums. like i dont need to snapshot or link all the threads that shame large scale groups. come on. there is toxicity towards zerging and its hurting the game more than its helping because all three playstyles have their place in ESO. and thats the beauty of it

Actually, you clearly don't know what you think you know. At launch and up to patch 1.2 you could have battles between literally 300+ people and have no real lag or frame rate issues. The game delivered nearly flawlessly on its advertised large scale pvp battles UNTIL the lighting patch came and with it the bot code(that doesn't work AT ALL). After that patch is when performance started to degrade.

Sypher might have been the first person to be youtube famous off this game, but 1vX existed basically from launch, it just used even cheesier mechanics than we do at present. Solo defending a room in a keep with a group oil and dynamic ulti letting you drop banner after banner for example.

Small scale still existed in these days because dynamic ulti gen allowed you a fighting chance no matter how outnumbered you were, you just had to make sure you kept that damage up and those crits rolling. However, there was no stigma attached to zergs because the server could somewhat handle it and there were game mechanics in place that let you have a fighting chance no matter how bad the numbers seemed. When that ended people started getting upset about not being able to beat people that greatly outnumbered them and that's when the toxic "1vX mentality" started imo.

eso pvp was quite fun at the first few month, then slowly but surely ppl started to discover aoes:s. first came dk batswarmers, then impulse trains, then came steel tornados, and slowly but surely, they fu***d up repeatedly until we are now where we are.

without the toxic community, eso pvp could be still that fun innocent and sweet what it was. Sometimes you get those moments these days too, but only when there is no single elite,elitist or organized raid roaming around.