Rest in peace, dual wield magsorc

hassubhai

I think with the frag nerf my time with dual wield sorc has ended.

Fun little clip i made some time ago after db nerf

https://youtu.be/Y_Fp-4__4qQ

LegacyDM

I wonder why @wrobel is so intent on killing dual wield magicka play style. He killed It on nb and now sorc. What's his deal? In his world does all magic have to be cast from a staff?! Lame.

hassubhai

LegacyDM wrote: »

I wonder why @wrobel is so intent on killing dual wield magicka play style. He killed It on nb and now sorc. What's his deal? In his world does all magic have to be cast from a staff?! Lame.

Yeh exactly, i absolutely love the dual wield magicka play style it feels amazingly fluid. Dw sorc has went through a butt load of nerfs including dawnbreaker, prox det, destro buffs which indirectly make dw a worse option. Wrobel seems to ignore dw sorcs existence at this point. I dont blame him tho considering there aren't many of us

Hallothiel

Is it really thst bad? B*gger. Recently made a DW mage & she is such fun to play - are they now utterly unviable or is this mainly for endgame stuff?

hassubhai

Hallothiel wrote: »

Is it really thst bad? B*gger. Recently made a DW mage & she is such fun to play - are they now utterly unviable or is this mainly for endgame stuff?

Mainly just end game stuff dont worry about it it would have minimal effects until you reach end game pvp or pve in whicj case you prob wont be using a dual wield build

EvilCroc

Magic = staves. Mages with swords or daggers are ludicrous.

The_Sadist

EvilCroc wrote: »

Magic = staves. Mages with swords or daggers are ludicrous.

Have you never played a Spellsword or a Battlemage before?

Phinix1

Guild Wards 2 has Wand and Relic. Other games also have similar things like Sword and Libram or Sword and Orb.

Just sayin, after 3 years I think we need more than ONE magicka weapon.

Browiseth

all i can say is "it's about time"

ParaNostram

It ain't dead, you just gotta be more creative.

Edit: Maybe to some from a min maxing perspective it might be dead but like whatever I don't care about min maxxers

lunalitetempler

Who cares.

RavenRoxie

Only nerfing crystal shards is not even a reason to quit your sorc, at all imo. Personally, I think they took it pretty easy on us sorcs. I really expected them to nerf or exchange abilities since they are taking everyone else's sustain away. They destroyed my Templar. Pretty much every skill I used as a healer got a nerf. So, I am all about my sorc now. She is a little beast and I don't see that changing at all from this nerf to crystal shards. I use it, it's on my main bar, but seriously, the sorc nerf could have been SO much worse. Be thankful yo!

Ulfgarde

Inferno staff OP!

I just couldn't play without my sexy inferno staff! Too much light-weaving has got me used to it!

Beardimus

Im with you on this @hassubhai Patch after patch DW MagSorc has taken nerfs, its properly annoying. I've mained a DW sorc from launch, and keep sticking with it but this could be the tipping point.

To the haters (whole clearly haven't seen LoTR) re DW Sorcs no one forces you to play one, so leave us in the niche alone!!

Anyone that says MagSorc dont get nerfs should have tried running a DW one as personally all I've had is nerfs every patch. Including them wrecking Overload completely (and with it the huge investment into Elegance)

Clearly they just want wizards with wands, maybe the Dev team preferred Harry Potter to Hobbits. BUT I find it frustrating, they support a light armour sorc tank with a frost wand BUT not a battle mage.

CaffeinatedMayhem

ParaNostram wrote: »

It ain't dead, you just gotta be more creative.

Edit: Maybe to some from a min maxing perspective it might be dead but like whatever I don't care about min maxxers

Agree. It's not an "easy button" build anymore, which is fine. Stam Tanking just got even harder, but I think the challenge will be interesting.

Gilvoth

LegacyDM wrote: »

I wonder why @wrobel is so intent on killing dual wield magicka play style. He killed It on nb and now sorc. What's his deal? In his world does all magic have to be cast from a staff?! Lame.

because it is from morrowind and they just do not want morrowind style play and morrowind taste in eso

they completely rebuilt morrowind the way THEY want it to be viewed.
this includes everything about dagger type play and stealth and assassin type style to become weak and noodle while magicka is dominant and overpowered.

Ahzek

DW sorc with knight slayer though.
Could be something, could be terrible xD

code65536

Good riddance, dual-wield mages make zero sense and were viable only due to the strange way in which stats were calculated. I rarely agree with ZOS's combat changes, but correcting that aberration was the right thing to do.

Lexxypwns

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

Mettaricana

I missed the recent video and stuff how did he kill dw sorcs with frag nerf?

hassubhai

code65536 wrote: »

Good riddance, dual-wield mages make zero sense and were viable only due to the strange way in which stats were calculated. I rarely agree with ZOS's combat changes, but correcting that aberration was the right thing to do.

From a balance point of view this makes no sense

hassubhai

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

How is dw sorc stronger?

Lexxypwns

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

How is dw sorc stronger?

Well, sustain is easier on DW sorc than most specs in the game since your spammable and your hardest hitting damage are basically free. With a larger shield stack than traditional sorcs we don't need to spam shields on our back bar when under pressure, a single stack is often enough, and will still be free to cast against magika builds.

This means that while other specs have to stack more into sustain, DW sorc can get by without that and therefore they will have a higher relative damage output compared to many specs that will have to give up a larger portion of their damage. Its not that DW sorc got stronger, its that the nerfs hurt other classes more because when you have a huge inherent magika pool its just easier to sustain.

Furthermore, the 10% damage you lose on frag procs is made up for by master at arms CP passive, without this nerf frags would have been hitting significantly harder next patch, they'll still do significant damage though. On PTS I'm able to put out higher damage on frag procs than on live, but this is before the 10% damage nerf.

The only significant issue DW sorc faces next patch is the new eclipse, but really, it just makes lining up burst more difficult while making managing our stam easier.

hassubhai

Lexxypwns wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

How is dw sorc stronger?

Well, sustain is easier on DW sorc than most specs in the game since your spammable and your hardest hitting damage are basically free. With a larger shield stack than traditional sorcs we don't need to spam shields on our back bar when under pressure, a single stack is often enough, and will still be free to cast against magika builds.

This means that while other specs have to stack more into sustain, DW sorc can get by without that and therefore they will have a higher relative damage output compared to many specs that will have to give up a larger portion of their damage. Its not that DW sorc got stronger, its that the nerfs hurt other classes more because when you have a huge inherent magika pool its just easier to sustain.

Furthermore, the 10% damage you lose on frag procs is made up for by master at arms CP passive, without this nerf frags would have been hitting significantly harder next patch, they'll still do significant damage though. On PTS I'm able to put out higher damage on frag procs than on live, but this is before the 10% damage nerf.

The only significant issue DW sorc faces next patch is the new eclipse, but really, it just makes lining up burst more difficult while making managing our stam easier.

Sustain on dw magsorc is far hard and this is coming from experience of playing both for an extreme amount of time also the difference in shield size is negligible.

Lord_Eomer

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Inferno staff OP!

I just couldn't play without my sexy inferno staff! Too much light-weaving has got me used to it!

Why not 2h op then?

Its biggest mess while spamming stampede, dizzling swing and executioner!

Lexxypwns

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

How is dw sorc stronger?

Well, sustain is easier on DW sorc than most specs in the game since your spammable and your hardest hitting damage are basically free. With a larger shield stack than traditional sorcs we don't need to spam shields on our back bar when under pressure, a single stack is often enough, and will still be free to cast against magika builds.

This means that while other specs have to stack more into sustain, DW sorc can get by without that and therefore they will have a higher relative damage output compared to many specs that will have to give up a larger portion of their damage. Its not that DW sorc got stronger, its that the nerfs hurt other classes more because when you have a huge inherent magika pool its just easier to sustain.

Furthermore, the 10% damage you lose on frag procs is made up for by master at arms CP passive, without this nerf frags would have been hitting significantly harder next patch, they'll still do significant damage though. On PTS I'm able to put out higher damage on frag procs than on live, but this is before the 10% damage nerf.

The only significant issue DW sorc faces next patch is the new eclipse, but really, it just makes lining up burst more difficult while making managing our stam easier.

Sustain on dw magsorc is far hard and this is coming from experience of playing both for an extreme amount of time also the difference in shield size is negligible.

If you think that then why would you ever have played DW sorc? They never had more burst, wrath+heavy inferno+frag proc+curse is just as much burst as a DW sorc could manage.

Literally on live you can run DW sorc with 40 into cost reduction, 0 mag regen, 0 regen set pieces, 0 regen/cost reduction jewels and sustain infinitely, if you think its harder to sustain on DW sorc than destro sorc you've obviously been playing DW sorc wrong.

Let's anazlyze the difference in their rotations and why sustain is easier on DW.

DW sorc:

Shield stack(bigger harness means more magika return from harness means more free sustain)- bar swap - curse - wrath - entropy - frag proc if available, if not repeat.

Destro sorc:

Shield stack(smaller harness means you'll have get less return, therefore less sustain) - bar swap - la - curse - la - wrath - la - pulse(much more costly than entropy) - medium weave+frag proc is available, if not repeat.

So tell me, how does the build with the more resource intensive rotation, smaller resource pool, and less free sustain from harness allegedly have better sustain?

Also, the difference of shield stack between 42k mag and 55k mag is colossal, like 4k on the double shield stack and an extra 1kish magika from harness.

Minalan

For the lore crybabies, a proper dual wield battle mage with some heavy armor is more Elder Scrolls lore appropriate than a stick wielding Gandalf dork in a bathrobe.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Battlemage

As to WHY we do it? Because it's fun. Because I don't want to spam crushing shock and the Destro ultimate. Because I don't want my skill bar to look like every other sorc out there. Because I like hitting hard and focusing on defense. Because I'm a passable sorc with dual wield, and I suck with a Destro staff.

Shgon_Dunstan

EvilCroc wrote: »

Magic = staves. Mages with swords or daggers are ludicrous.

A dagger is actually the other traditional weapon of TES mages... Mind, the class in question is actually a sorcerer, which to quote Morrowind's class description "though spell casters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summoning and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor, and weapons, and commanding undead and Deadric servants gratifies their egos.".

Beardimus

Interesting reading @Lexxypwns cool to understand it in the wider context! Thank you

Lexxypwns

Beardimus wrote: »

Interesting reading @Lexxypwns cool to understand it in the wider context! Thank you

I think the current strongest sorc spec on live is Destro/Resto because eye is incredibly strong and basically an I win button in open world cyro.

I don't think that changes next patch, Destro/Resto will still be stronger than DW, but by comparison to other classes DW sorc faces way less from the nerfs than MOST other specs.

code65536

Lexxypwns wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Lol, in comparison to other specs, DW sorc is stronger next patch than on live, even with the frag nerf. The new eclipse is a much bigger nerf to DW sorc than the frag damage.

DW sorc is one of the few builds that won't need to stack sustain. When you're rocking a 55k magika pool its easier to retain your resources and since sorcs never had anything that restored resources based on MAX stat stacking they didn't get any nerfs in this area.

How is dw sorc stronger?

Well, sustain is easier on DW sorc than most specs in the game since your spammable and your hardest hitting damage are basically free. With a larger shield stack than traditional sorcs we don't need to spam shields on our back bar when under pressure, a single stack is often enough, and will still be free to cast against magika builds.

This means that while other specs have to stack more into sustain, DW sorc can get by without that and therefore they will have a higher relative damage output compared to many specs that will have to give up a larger portion of their damage. Its not that DW sorc got stronger, its that the nerfs hurt other classes more because when you have a huge inherent magika pool its just easier to sustain.

Furthermore, the 10% damage you lose on frag procs is made up for by master at arms CP passive, without this nerf frags would have been hitting significantly harder next patch, they'll still do significant damage though. On PTS I'm able to put out higher damage on frag procs than on live, but this is before the 10% damage nerf.

The only significant issue DW sorc faces next patch is the new eclipse, but really, it just makes lining up burst more difficult while making managing our stam easier.

Sustain on dw magsorc is far hard and this is coming from experience of playing both for an extreme amount of time also the difference in shield size is negligible.

If you think that then why would you ever have played DW sorc? They never had more burst, wrath+heavy inferno+frag proc+curse is just as much burst as a DW sorc could manage.

Literally on live you can run DW sorc with 40 into cost reduction, 0 mag regen, 0 regen set pieces, 0 regen/cost reduction jewels and sustain infinitely, if you think its harder to sustain on DW sorc than destro sorc you've obviously been playing DW sorc wrong.

Let's anazlyze the difference in their rotations and why sustain is easier on DW.

DW sorc:

Shield stack(bigger harness means more magika return from harness means more free sustain)- bar swap - curse - wrath - entropy - frag proc if available, if not repeat.

Destro sorc:

Shield stack(smaller harness means you'll have get less return, therefore less sustain) - bar swap - la - curse - la - wrath - la - pulse(much more costly than entropy) - medium weave+frag proc is available, if not repeat.

So tell me, how does the build with the more resource intensive rotation, smaller resource pool, and less free sustain from harness allegedly have better sustain?

Also, the difference of shield stack between 42k mag and 55k mag is colossal, like 4k on the double shield stack and an extra 1kish magika from harness.

LOL! So with the wishful wave of a hand, you magically gain 13K extra magicka because you use DW instead of destro. Mmhm.

And you really think Entropy which hits like a wet noodle and is good only for the empower is better than something with utility like Crushing Shock? Mmhm.

And you think that the loss of all that light and heavy weaving is good for your damage? Damage that, BTW, costs you zero resources? Mmhm.

This is hilarious.