[Suggestion] Thoughts on DK and balance changes (pvp focused)

Drishtan

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

DK is a tank no matter how you look at it. Sure you can item around dps but it will never be as good dps as Sorc or NB. If you wanted to deal dps, you shouldn't have roll DK, or did you expect to do similar dps to Sorc while being twice as tanky?

You never played a mag dk have you?

You never been in Vet MOL have you?????

LorDrek

DK is now only general class.

Weps

Ishammael wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Permablocking unkillable One Hand and Shield ulti spamming machines had to go, for the good of the game.

This statement gets thrown around so much on the forms that it has reached a sort unassailable tyranny of groupthink. And as with most groupthink its completely braindead.

Consider
1. DKs haven't been "unkillable" since patch 1.3. That was 2.5 years ago.
2. Ult spam changed significantly as they adjusted ultimate reward from skill use during patches 1.3--1.4. -- 1.5. Not saying it was completely balanced, but the path was correct.
3. DKs was DEFINED by its ability to engage large numbers. Dynamic Ult plus Battle Roar allowed its power to scale with the number of players engaged. DK always had lower damage than other classes. It was a true nub-stomper, no doubt. But if you watch old videos carefully you'll see that the situations where these DKs failed occured when they fought fewer numbers or the other players were competent.
4. In any case, the entire class identity of DK has been lost since about mid 1.6 when CPs stated to dominate class power curves. That's why so many players get upset. The "YUGE influx" of mDK after the homestead class lasted what, 2 weeks? After players took their mDKs in Cyro and got stomped, they quickly rolled back to easier classes that perform better.

Dude, my main class is DK but those builds in PvP had to go.
And don't tell me permablockers with sword and board ulti don't exist because they do.
I'm no great DK but I can walk in the middle of a zerg holding block and survive until my allies can push and I still can walk out of it in one piece. On Ps4 EU there are at least 3 or 4 players who run PvE tanks for PvP and they're the most difficult thing to kill on the whole campaign. A lot of it has to do with noobs and L2P issues, but lots have to do with the fact that their build can efficiently permablock against 10 players hitting them. Plus One Hand and Shield Ulti costs 100. Seriously. If they're not unkillable, are very close to it.

You see, the fact is that I'd like to be able to take large numbers. I'd like to have the tools to play outnumbered and kill multiple enemies with a combination of my skills, sets, passives and the rest of the mix.
I just don't believe that taking large numbers means to just sit your ass in the middle of the field and hold a button forever and ever just to troll noobs or get likes on Youtube. This thing HAD TO GO and with the CP + block cost changes I believed they accomplished that, the passives should be reviewed.

I want the DK to improve ffs, don't be so salty on everybody and chill a little bit.
I'm still rolling through Cyro with my DK hybrid tank. I'm trying to complete vMA for the first time with my stam DK DPS and I'm still getting to Cyro with a light armor DK full damage, it's just that we can't ask for balance if we're not willing to let go some of our OP characteristics.

Weps

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

DK is a tank no matter how you look at it. Sure you can item around dps but it will never be as good dps as Sorc or NB. If you wanted to deal dps, you shouldn't have roll DK, or did you expect to do similar dps to Sorc while being twice as tanky?

DKs are far better PvE DPS than templars or Nightblades and they're very close to sorcs, for the simple fact they have incredibly strong Ultis and when it comes down to sustained DPS against enemies that just take all of your damage without purging, shielding or dodgin, the class also have some of the strongest DOTs and passives to improve their efficiency.

The problem is that DKs constantly lack tools and utilities to compete against how the other classes have evolved and changed in PvP, how the whole game has changed since the passives are totally outdated and the only tools the class had to compete against other players have been almost completely taken away by the last two patches.

LorDrek

Weps wrote: »

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

DK is a tank no matter how you look at it. Sure you can item around dps but it will never be as good dps as Sorc or NB. If you wanted to deal dps, you shouldn't have roll DK, or did you expect to do similar dps to Sorc while being twice as tanky?

DKs are far better PvE DPS than templars or Nightblades and they're very close to sorcs, for the simple fact they have incredibly strong Ultis

Wich ultimate?

Drishtan

LorDrek wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

DK is a tank no matter how you look at it. Sure you can item around dps but it will never be as good dps as Sorc or NB. If you wanted to deal dps, you shouldn't have roll DK, or did you expect to do similar dps to Sorc while being twice as tanky?

DKs are far better PvE DPS than templars or Nightblades and they're very close to sorcs, for the simple fact they have incredibly strong Ultis

Wich ultimate?

Yes Id like to know. Banner has been nerfed to the ground and the D ult is not class specif. You dont see ppl running Leap in trials and you better believe that dps better not be running magma shell. So again what ult are you talking about?

Xvorg

Ishammael wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Permablocking unkillable One Hand and Shield ulti spamming machines had to go, for the good of the game.

This statement gets thrown around so much on the forms that it has reached a sort unassailable tyranny of groupthink. And as with most groupthink its completely braindead.

Consider
1. DKs haven't been "unkillable" since patch 1.3. That was 2.5 years ago.
2. Ult spam changed significantly as they adjusted ultimate reward from skill use during patches 1.3--1.4. -- 1.5. Not saying it was completely balanced, but the path was correct.
3. DKs was DEFINED by its ability to engage large numbers. Dynamic Ult plus Battle Roar allowed its power to scale with the number of players engaged. DK always had lower damage than other classes. It was a true nub-stomper, no doubt. But if you watch old videos carefully you'll see that the situations where these DKs failed occured when they fought fewer numbers or the other players were competent.
4. In any case, the entire class identity of DK has been lost since about mid 1.6 when CPs stated to dominate class power curves. That's why so many players get upset. The "YUGE influx" of mDK after the homestead class lasted what, 2 weeks? After players took their mDKs in Cyro and got stomped, they quickly rolled back to easier classes that perform better.

1- @Joy_Division called it "syndrome post DK" or something like that a couple months ago... I couldn't agree more.

4- Regarding dmg, there were 2 moments were DKs suffered the most after CP

1) When CP was capped
2) When Stam DK turned into a poison dmg dealer from a flame based dmg dealer. Then the change done to thaum seemed to solve the issue, except for dunmer DK, who had its dmg reduced.

For those who don't remember, thaum used to increase poison, disease and magic dmg

So, a dunmer stamDK had Unstable flame and burning breath with a natural 7% extra dmg without allocating CP points

LorDrek wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

DK is a tank no matter how you look at it. Sure you can item around dps but it will never be as good dps as Sorc or NB. If you wanted to deal dps, you shouldn't have roll DK, or did you expect to do similar dps to Sorc while being twice as tanky?

DKs are far better PvE DPS than templars or Nightblades and they're very close to sorcs, for the simple fact they have incredibly strong Ultis

Wich ultimate?

Elemental rage, off course...

Allu07neb18_ESO

magDK pvp
we should be "stand our ground" class but all our survivability is nerfed, blocking, healing, heavy armor. we dont have mobility or good shields so how we gonna survive?
We already are hard times with sustain and you nerf our sustain even more. so we have stack more sustain and our dmg gonna go down also. we dont have any burst without ultimate. we already have to out play all our enemies and usually have to use our ultimate to get kills because our dmg is so low. so next patch what we gonna do?

SoulKing32

Joy_Division wrote: »

What are DKs reduced to today: begging ZoS for the status quo, so you can run around being "tanky" and annoying other players when a sorc with Encase and Negate is a lot more annoying. When people say DKs are awesome in groups or with a pocket templar, that's another way of saying they suck on their own.

Just roll a sorc until Camelot Unchained comes out and you can play a Mjolnir

So much this!

LorDrek

In this moment have dk worst ultimate from other class, standart from release nerf 50% no cost reduktion, take flight only use in pvp, corosve, magmashel, sort duration, any good efect too expensive.

Drishtan

What other buff can we add to dk to make it more balanced with lets say sorcs?

How about Wings lasts 6 secs?

Drishtan

Heres a good one Scale Igenous Shield off of Max Magic and Spell Damage to be in line with sorcs hardened ward. A light armor dk need more shield bc in light armor they are as squishy as sorcs.

Good change right???

Anti_Virus

Change reflective scales to deflective scales.

LorDrek

Drishtan wrote: »

Heres a good one Scale Igenous Shield off of Max Magic and Spell Damage to be in line with sorcs hardened ward. A light armor dk need more shield bc in light armor they are as squishy as sorcs.

Good change right???

No this complet destroy tank.

Weps

I was talking about StamDk DPS and the Standard is still one of the strongest ultimate in the game, even with the 5% nerf from last patch.

Destro ulti damage got nerfed 10% in Homestead but I haven't seen nobody saying that is trash atm.

Durham

Stam DK DPS is slower actually in PVP ... stamplar is higher... stamblade is higher.....stamsorc is about the same but I give the edge to stamsorc.....

krathos

Just finished watching the balance portion of ESO live. Every class was mentioned except DKs. This is extremely disappointing. We've had a really productive thread and there were tons of people asking in chat about their status and we were shoved to the side after receiving largely unnecessary direct and indirect nerfs.

I am extremely disappointed.