VMA token system with Morrowind update. It should be added ? Yes or No ?

Juhasow

So we heared some rumors that it's possible there will be some change that'll improve loot from vMA in Morrowind update but as we could see in PTS patch notes there is no changes to that. I ask everyone here what do You think about it ? Do You think token system should be added in update 14 ? Please share Your opinion.

argouru

Yes

They also need to slightly reduce the difficulty of VMA on consoles because it's harder to bar-swap on controllers than it is on a keyboard. Many console players have struggled much harder to beat it than pc players have had to.

Qbiken

Yes

As long as it´s still makes you "grind" the instance (not grind in doing 200 runs and not getting what you want but I think you get my point). As long as it´s implemented the right way )

coolermh

No

VMA is actually going to be harder with the sustain nerfs which is good cause most people need the challenge as its a bit to easy now. It is supposed to be the some of the hardest content in the game but most veterans players clear it in less then an hour and half with few or no deaths.

Juhasow

Yes

I dont care what excatly that system would look like just give us players a reason to go there and not beeing punished for spending time there just to get gear we dont want and in most of cases will deconstruct.

Lets be honest there are people that have been there few hundreds times and still dont have wepaon they wanted. It's literally wasting hundres of hours from their lifes.

Traits are not fixed in morrowind and sharpened will be still the king leaving rest behind so give people chance to get that sharpened weapons faster and focus on other aspects of game.

LiquidPony

No

I never bought the "token system" idea, TBH.

I would prefer better trait balance and a smarter loot table.

Juhasow

Yes

coolermh wrote: »

VMA is actually going to be harder with the sustain nerfs which is good cause most people need the challenge as its a bit to easy now. It is supposed to be the some of the hardest content in the game but most veterans players clear it in less then an hour and half with few or no deaths.

What You talking about here have nothing to do with the subject.

I am clearing it in ~40 minutes with no dead. Does it means anything or does it means I am getting better loot for that ? No.

I am still in good position with loot because I have almost everything I wanted but there are people who done it 2 times and during 2nd attempt which was 5 hours long they get weapon they wanted still beeing weak in doing this content. There are also people that doing this in half hour and overall finished it hundreds of times and still dont have weapon they wanted.

Difficulty level have nothing to do with broken RNG

Juhasow

Yes

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s still makes you "grind" the instance (not grind in doing 200 runs and not getting what you want but I think you get my point). As long as it´s implemented the right way )

Yes. I was thinking reasonable number would be 20 tokens for 1 hand and 40 tokens for 2 hand. Tokens could be granted directly from the last chest or from deconstructing weapons we dont need.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Yes

Honestly I'm so pissed off that even my alt stam character has all the weapons but not my main, only due to RNG that I find it disencouraging to not see the token system implemented yet.

Pallio

Yes

Before this nerf patch made everyone start quiting this was our biggest problem.

Not sure anyone will be able to complete vMA after patch anyway, so not as big a deal I guess.

You know the casuals that are staying will never go in there.

Juhasow

Yes

Pallio wrote: »

Before this nerf patch made everyone start quiting this was our biggest problem.

Not sure anyone will be able to complete vMA after patch anyway, so not as big a deal I guess.

You know the casuals that are staying will never go in there.

It'll be still doable.

Ashtaris

Yes

I said yes, but with a few modifications. I would like to see the token system extended to trials and vet dungeons. I think mny of us are tired of running that same dungeon over, and over, and over again only to get that set piece we are looking for with a crappy trait.

theamazingx

Yes

I was lucky. Sat down and did 50 runs over 2 weeks and got my sharpened inferno. But the sheer fact that I know people who have run 300+ without that luck is absurd. Make it a 100-1, or 150-1 exchange rate. Even 200-1, just put a ceiling on the rng.

ap1230

Yes

coolermh wrote: »

VMA is actually going to be harder with the sustain nerfs which is good cause most people need the challenge as its a bit to easy now. It is supposed to be the some of the hardest content in the game but most veterans players clear it in less then an hour and half with few or no deaths.

Most people? Most people can't even complete it. No wonder it gets easy for those who've done it 50+ times and has the needed drops to maximize their performance. Those people are not and should not be viewed as some benchmark for the game's difficulty. Everything becomes easy when you memorize it to a point it's instinctive.

As for tokens, yes, please! I main a stamblade and it felt insulting to those magicka players that have run the place so many times for their Sharpened Inferno Staff when I got it on my 3rd run.

Pallio

Yes

Most people = the 10% who have actually completed vMA.

Nerfs are not new challenges, we could self nerf and run with 0 CP and naked now, if we wanted to.

DHale

Yes

Before Morrowind I would say no, now yes.

FlyLionel

LiquidPony wrote: »

I never bought the "token system" idea, TBH.

I would prefer better trait balance and a smarter loot table.

I agree completely. No token system or trait balance/smarter loot table? Come onnn budddy.

Juhasow

Yes

theamazingx wrote: »

I was lucky. Sat down and did 50 runs over 2 weeks and got my sharpened inferno. But the sheer fact that I know people who have run 300+ without that luck is absurd. Make it a 100-1, or 150-1 exchange rate. Even 200-1, just put a ceiling on the rng.

That's the problem atm. Somwhere inside heads we have feeling that we can end up doing vMA hundreds of times and get nothing we want , which is really not helping going there again and again.

Artis

No

Token system is a terrible idea. Maybe for some catch-up gear? But in this game you can already craft/buy the decent gear. The token system is not needed.

ap1230

Yes

Pallio wrote: »

Most people = the 10% who have actually completed vMA.

Nerfs are not new challenges, we could self nerf and run with 0 CP and naked now, if we wanted to.

10%? Is that for PC? That's actually pretty decent. Because I am looking at a laughable 0.3% here on PS4...

idk

Yes

@ZOS_MattFiror spoke to Zos revising the drops is certain gear and looking at solutions which included the possibility of a token system. He used the undaunted chests as an example but t I'd see vMA as one that should be considered as well.

I had thought any changes would be added this upcoming update but it seems Zos has either decided to pass on this or hasn't made up feud minds.

Weapons are the worst grind in this game and horrid grind is a major detractor.

Btw, it could have been @ZOS_RichLambert but pretty sure it wss Firor in an interview shortly after Morrowind was announced.

I'm not suggesting a token system but changes need to be made to the absolutely absurd grinding that needs to be done in the game, especially for a decent weapon. It's just ridiculous some have to spend 100 - 200 hours farming for weapons for one character.

Juhasow

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Token system is a terrible idea. Maybe for some catch-up gear? But in this game you can already craft/buy the decent gear. The token system is not needed.

We're not talking about catching up. We're talking about single player content that starts to be boring when You're doing it few hundreds times and You still dont get weapon You desire and You cannot craft or buy them. It's obvious those weapons are not needed and optional but if someone decided to invest his time into doing that content he should be rewarded for that or atleast have feeling he wont waste lot of hours just for nothing. Still it would need to do maybe 50 runs to get weapon You need but 50 is better then 500.

F7sus4

Yes

400+ runs and no Inferno Sharpened = ridiculous.

Juhasow

Yes

F7sus4 wrote: »

400+ runs and no Inferno Sharpened = ridiculous.

Excatly that's the problem. People literally leaving game because of this.

GunsFireFreedom

Yes

TBH I've been incredibly lucky with my vMA drops. So far with less than 30 clears i have received 1 sharpened inferno staff, 2 sharpened bows, 2 nirnhoned bows, 1 pair infused dagger/axe (which i deconned like a dumb ass) , random traits of restoration staffs, random traits of SnB, 1 sharpened maul, etc.

Now I'm not positive on how this maths out but from what i have seen there are nine possible traits that drop and at least eight possible combinations of weapons (at least is because i am unsure of how the maelstrom mace one handed fits into the loot pool since I've never seen one). In those conditions for each clear you would have a possibility of receiving the weapon you are looking for in the correct trait around 1/72 or roughly 1.3%.

Please note that this drop rate is not substantially better than for any other BoP gear, assuming the loot pool/drop chance is working correctly. The main difference is that vMA is solo and requires quite a bit of time (I'm down to about an hour although i know some can complete in less) and resources. Since the content is solo you also lose out on the only good thing going for BoP gear which is that it can typically (outside of vMA) be traded within your group for a limited time period.

Why the token system vs. reworking the trait system entirely?

While i do think that the loot pool and the trait system need rework (smart loot or w/e I'm lookin at you), with a token system or reward system similar to the imperial city key fragments would provide an alternate means of acquiring the same loot. The major downside would be that each chest opened with X key fragments would have the same RNG as opening the chest after finishing round 9 and could be implemented quite easily into the current system. Such that you would have the option to open a chest in vMA before accepting the quest or after completing it (place the chest behind the baron or somewhere that makes sense).

Some quantity of key fragments would have to be rewarded upon completion, and i would like to see this scale with score. Where if you complete a flawless run you would be rewarded with one key fragment per vitality left, plus a possible multiplier upon meeting certain conditions.

Or, a strait up vendor. Where you receive the same key fragments i mentioned above, but instead can purchase any vMA weapon/pair in the trait you desire for some quantity of key frags or keys.

Point is, the drop rate is bad, and something should be done about it. There shouldn't be any single player out there with 400+ runs (let alone 100) and not receive the weapon they ran the content for. Farming simulator will only hold my attention for so long, and as much as I enjoy ESO I firmly believe that some things (notably the drop rates) need to be reworked.

Didgerion

Yes

LiquidPony wrote: »

I never bought the "token system" idea, TBH.

I would prefer better trait balance and a smarter loot table.

There is no such thing as smarter loot table.

What if someone is after 2H - powered for his rally bust on back bar? will you qualify this combo as a smart drop or not?
You will screw that person with your smart loot table.

The best way to do it is to lower combination on looting. This can be achieved either by choosing the weapon type or weapon trait before opening the chest. Let them put some sort of attuning mechanics on chests.

The numbers currently are insane:
There are 12 weapons types and 9 traits.
Which makes 108 possible combinations.

So your chance of getting the weapon you need is 0.92%

Good luck - you will need lots of it when farming VMA. If your luck is bad it will take you thousands of runs to get it right.

GrigorijMalahevich

No

Haha, no.

jakeedmundson

Yes

The overwhelming majority of people i've ever played with and/or discussed this idea with agree with one thing.

VMA drop rates are HORRIBLE!

Token system or not... something needs to change. I don't care how or what gets changed... but it needs to get better.

i'm about 100 runs in... still looking for sharpened inferno and sharpened 2hander (like 95% of vma runners) and a sharpened 1h axe.

Bottom line

---

implement a token system OR change the traits that drop OR make more traits viable OR allow us to choose the weapon type with random trait OR etc. etc.....

Draqone

Yes

ap1230 wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Most people = the 10% who have actually completed vMA.

Nerfs are not new challenges, we could self nerf and run with 0 CP and naked now, if we wanted to.

10%? Is that for PC? That's actually pretty decent. Because I am looking at a laughable 0.3% here on PS4...

The percentage is the same on PC, I am pretty sure. I am a pretty good player, but since I play only healers I never completed vMA. Most people I talk to haven't completed vMA either.

parkham

Yes

LiquidPony wrote: »

I never bought the "token system" idea, TBH.

I would prefer better trait balance and a smarter loot table.

Liquid (LP) said no, I said yes, but I second LP's suggestion.

Juhasow

Yes

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, no.

Very comprehensive and insightfull answer