PTS Feedback Thread for Sustain Nerfs: Are They Necessary?

Akimbro

Champion System

• Arcanist: 100-point value reduced to 15% (from 25%).
• Mooncalf: 100-point value reduced to 15% (from 25%).
• Magician: Renamed this passive to Siphoner. This passive ability now reduces the enemy’s Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery for 3 seconds when you damage them with a Light or Heavy Attack, instead of reducing the cost of your Magicka abilities.
• Warlord: This passive ability now reduces the cost of Break Free, instead of reducing the cost of your Stamina abilities.

Buffs and Debuffs

• Minor Magickasteal: Reduced the amount of Magicka this debuff restores to the attacker to 300 Magicka from 400 Magicka.

Nightblade (Siphoning)

• Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now converts the ability into a Stamina ability and causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Stamina based on your character level.
• Siphoning Attacks (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to also restore Magicka based on your character level.
  • This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

Templar (Aedric Spear)

• Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.

Guild (Undaunted)

• Necrotic Orb: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka to the synergy-user, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Spear Shards synergy.

Light Armor

• Evocation: This is now a 2-point passive, originally 3-points. It now reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 1/2% per piece of Light Armor, down from 1/2/3%.

Medium Armor

• Wind Walker: This passive ability now reduces the cost of your Stamina abilities by 1/2% per piece of Medium Armor, down from 2/3%.

Heavy Armor

• Constitution: Reduced the Magicka and Stamina restored by this passive ability by approximately 42%.

Redguard Skills

• Adrenaline Rush: This passive ability now restores Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Stamina.
  • This will be a buff is your maximum resource is below 15,840 and a nerf if it is above.

TheStealthDude

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

Yes, they are needed. The ease at which we have infinite sustain is not good for the game. It's easy-mode. It makes resources trivial, in a system meant for them to be important.

While I don't necessarily agree with 100% of the changes, the direction they are going is correct.

aeowulf

every class get hit bad, but night blades the worst of all

and why do sorcs get to keep dark exchange????! they have just probably become the new ice staff tanking meta


honestly, thinking about this why not just remove all sustain/regen abilities from the game and be done with it.

Dragath

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

overall i do like the idea of reducing the sustain a bit, to make it matter more.
But, the way they do it is wrong.
they nerfed everything and everyone across the board, nerfing different classes, some a lot, some less.
they didnt address some of the real outliers and they nerfed classes that already struggle on live.
nerfing CP, Armor, Classes AND increasing the cost of (stamina) skills is way too much, especially if you consider how poorly they did go about the class sustain nerfs.
just to name one example:
mdks already suffer from the high magicka costs on live, most of them are running some kind of sustain set. they already do have to manage their resources and with these nerfs, it will just be too much.
ZOS should take things like that into consideration when making huge changes.
a more sensible approach would have been to buff classes that struggle with sustain on live, then reduce CP and (maybe) Armor sustain and after looking at these changes for a week or two, nerf or buff specific Classes accordingly.
what we have now is a huge nerf for everyone without even taking into consideration that some classes already struggle while others might still be fine even with these changes.
balance is way off.

bubbygink

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

In my opinion sustain nerfs are needed. I am actually quite please with the changes to CP. I am also pretty ok with the changes to the armor passives as well. This is a nice way to universally reduce sustain which I think has gotten out of hand. However, I think ZoS's nerfs to class sustain skills and mechanics are off the mark. For example, Siphoning Attacks no longer restores stamina at all and only restores about 25% of the magicka it used to. Yes it added a HoT but we already excel in that regard, it really isn't needed. This is a MASSIVE nerf. Meanwhile, stam sorcs, who have the best sustain in the game, don't have Dark Deal nerfed at all.

Xvorg

Other, please explain.

Though I think there should have been changes in sustain, those changes should have been implemented in a different way

Ghettokid

Other, please explain.

Well orcs are known for having best sustain in game, so doesn't matter. Expect the spear shards nerf, cause templar is my second favorite class, right after orc.

NightbladeMechanics

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

Managing resources can be fun too.

Edziu

Other, please explain.

in cp ok sure, maybe it was needed but from all other sources like every skills, armor, class, maybe race, every nerf into sustain not going from cp is unnecessary

NBrookus

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

Some sustain changes were needed, but they went too far. Meanwhile, it will be a gankers paradise.

usmcjdking

The biggest problem I have is the shared cooldown of orb/shard.

Magıc

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

Needed but over the top.

Sustain isn't a thing in the current game but some of these are way too nerfed.

Dracane

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

I never, never once felt like I have enough sustain to sustain forever. I always had to manage my ressources well and never felt like any nerf to it was necessary. Even though I have like 2400 magicka regen, I never felt unexhaustable.

With that being said, no, it was not necessary at all.

Arenguros

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

The changes are needed, but also a lot more balancing.
Not only skills have to be looked at but also interactions between them, item sets and dungeon mechanics.

Sadly, I don't feel like there will be enough time until release to get all these changes in and tested.

Akimbro

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

Seems like the general consensus is either No, or Yes but is currently overdone.

Probably should have added another poll option for a sustain nerf, but not as grand.

IwakuraLain42

Other, please explain.

While some adjustments were surely needed all these (heavy handed) changes are way too much, especially the nerfs to the class skill. Looks very bleak to me from what read from the tests here.

Derra

Other, please explain.

I don´t get the nerfs to light and medium armor.

Everything else seems kind of reasonable. I´m missing a flat magica return on harness magica.

Forztr

Other, please explain.

Too many changes all at once, they should have just done the CP changes and left the rest the same planning to re-evaluate after 3months on live.

Currently in no CP PVP you need to manage resources so with the additional nerfs to resource management coming in 3.0 no CP PVP is going to be challenging. At least cost poisons will get nerfed.

Ethos

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

Basically :

It's needed for PvP
Not needed for PvE

But, it seems Zenimax Online think only about PvP part of their game, nice done.

You need to find a solution, like, really. Cause you are gonna loose so many players if you keep theses changes.

Want to find some good balance ? but finally it's always "huge nerf"
You really think it's gonna be fun in PvE to do only fully heavy attacks ? lol

Strider_Roshin

Yes, the changes to sustain are needed.

Over due IMO. Siphoning Strikes needs reworked though.

Cêltic421

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

I do think sustain needed to be addressed but ZoS is nerfing it to the ground. Think the CP changes would have been enough. I also don't like the game deciding if players get magicka or stam back with shards and orbs. And as someone stated before me I also don't like that they share the same cool down timers, completely different skill trees. A class specific skill should not share timers with a guild skill.

Preyfar

Other, please explain.

I think they are needed, but ultimately a bit too harsh. Stamina/Magicka still factors far too much into final DPS, so finding that right balance between regen and damage now is a bit of a pain. I think it was needed, but they went a bit too far.

fred4

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

Akimbro wrote: »

[*]This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

First of all thank you so much for summarizing this, and for the poll.

As I PvP with magicka NB at the moment, I'll just comment on Siphoning Attacks. I take it the above statement is from ZOS. What a ludicrous one it is. As a light armor magicka NB a small heal does NOTHING for me. It may be marginally useful for a heavy armor build, I don't know, but as a light armor build I rely on shields. Without them, or without cloaking away, I will fall to any half-decent player within 2 seconds. I rely on magicka sustain to survive, much less on health regen. How many sorcs have you seen with 30% health, maybe just out of execute range, and they survive, survive, survive. I see them all the time. So, whoever came up with the BS above, hasn't played the game. I don't care one bit about the health regen from this ability. Give me magicka regen, and above all, give me stamina regen from the magicka morph. In other words, give me the original ability. I need it to break free. Being out of stamina is death. Having 2K stamina left is death. Having 2K health left is not death, when you have shields and stamina.

Sorry, this is obviously directed at ZOS. Basically, this nerf is complete BS. It is complete BS because everyone I talk to admits that NBs are already hard to play. It is complete BS because (stam)sorcs still have Dark Deal, and that wasn't nerfed. It is complete BS, because Siphoning Attacks is active resource management. You have to work for it. You have to (light) attack. Is that not what you want, ZOS? Is the only active resource management going to be heavy attacks now? Aside from everything else, what utter boredom that's going to be.

Akimbro

No, I don't want to play the Heavy Attacks Online.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Over due IMO. Siphoning Strikes needs reworked though.

So you think ALL of these changes to sustain were overdue?