Magicka Nightblade Changes (from PVP Stand point)

CavalryPK

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[img][/img]Nightblade

• Shadow
  • Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where the invisibility from this ability and its morphs was being broken by numerous abilities including Reflective Light, Silver Shards, and Burning Talon’s damage over time effect.
  • Shadow Image (Summon Shade morph): Fixed an issue where the pet summoned by this morph was not critically striking based on your Spell Critical.
• Siphoning
  • Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now converts the ability into a Stamina ability and causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Stamina based on your character level.
  • Siphoning Attacks (Siphoning Strikes morph): This morph now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to also restore Magicka based on your character level.
  • Siphoning Strikes:
    • This ability now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Health instead of Magicka or Stamina.
    • Increased the duration of this ability and its morphs to 20 seconds from 15 seconds.
      Developer Comments:
      This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

[/list]

Calling in all the pro Magblades out there to read this and provide constructive feedback either here or in the right discussion. Since the magblade is the only class I absolutely love playing I would like to provide extra visibility so we can help the devs make the right adjustments. @NightbladeMechanics , @Blobsky , @Zendran, @Sypher and whoever else is there.

My thoughts:

Shadow Cloak: Yay, I hope it will work this time. I kind of lost hope on this.

Shadow Image (Summon Shade morph): good change. but really underwhelming. I would much rather see and appropriate increase in the base damage. The only reason I summon shade is to proc necropotence. I never rely on its dps

Siphoning Attacks (Siphoning Strikes morph): Not really sure how I feel about it. I am note sure how much the magicka return will be reduced. I like the idea that it will now restore health but. I am not sure what "based on the character level" means. Will this work with plague doctor ?

GRIM FOCUS: The day when @ZOS_RichLambert said on ESO LIVE that This skill is going to get a major rework. not in Homstead but in the next update. Rich.... where is the reworked skill...

NightbladeMechanics

Siphoning Attacks will be losing a lot of stamina sustain. That's serious business, but we can't tell how big of a deal it is until we play the changes.

The class doesn't need buffs or reworks imo. It is more difficult to play in open world than the other classes because of factors external to the class, but it's not weak. This patch aims to bring those external factors into line. Let's see how it goes before we draw conclusions.

Light armor will be the way to go again, finally, for which I am grateful, and my old light armor, high max stat, shieldless heal over time destro builds will likely be viable again in open world. I'm excited.

Alpheu5

Honestly, I would have been elated with just the duration increase to Siphoning. Nightblades are already good with restoring health, so, depending on what the values are, having to now choose between restoring stamina or magicka is going to be a serious hit to magblades in particular, because running out of mag is way more forgiving than running out of stam.

CavalryPK

I just though of one more thing. You know some of those crazy proc dual wield stam sorcs or WW builds.. that shred you in to bits if you stay too close ? ahem... @Saltmustflow... well... the only defense against that was spamming cripple and keeping distance... now any one who dodges a root has 2 second root immunity... go figure ....

Alpheu5

CavalryPK wrote: »

I just though of one more thing. You know some of those crazy proc dual wield stam sorcs or WW builds.. that shred you in to bits if you stay too close ? ahem... @Saltmustflow... well... the only defense against that was spamming cripple and keeping distance... now any one who dodges a root has 2 second root immunity... go figure ....

Not dodging a root. Roll dodging out of one. Crippling's root is barely even noticed by most players I use it on (everybody bashes for some reason lol), so hopefully it'll still remain a valid means of separation assuming they don't dodge roll out in that small time window.

CavalryPK

Alpheu5 wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

I just though of one more thing. You know some of those crazy proc dual wield stam sorcs or WW builds.. that shred you in to bits if you stay too close ? ahem... @Saltmustflow... well... the only defense against that was spamming cripple and keeping distance... now any one who dodges a root has 2 second root immunity... go figure ....

Not dodging a root. Roll dodging out of one. Crippling's root is barely even noticed by most players I use it on (everybody bashes for some reason lol), so hopefully it'll still remain a valid means of separation assuming they don't dodge roll out in that small time window.

yeh That's what I meant sorry. I get ppl roll dodge out of my cripple all the time man.

bubbygink

The Eclipse change also hurts us:

This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.

Gonna be brutal fighting Magplars spamming that. Though at least it does grant CC immunity but that is still around a third of the time not even being able to attacks against Eclipse users.

Alpheu5

bubbygink wrote: »

The Eclipse change also hurts us:

This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.

Gonna be brutal fighting Magplars spamming that. Though at least it does grant CC immunity but that is still around a third of the time not even being able to attacks against Eclipse users.

What is this? Talking about a Templar skill in a Nightblade discussion?

Leave this place, heathen!

SanSan

All i see is RIp sustain

bubbygink

Alpheu5 wrote: »

What is this? Talking about a Templar skill in a Nightblade discussion?


Leave this place, heathen!

It is directly relevant to Magblade. Only Mag Sorcs and Magblades are effected by this. Going to be an indirect nerf for us if we are constantly being Eclipsed. Just a point I thought I'd bring up.

bubbygink

With the sustain nerf does this mean Lich becomes BiS for Magblades in PvP? I'm thinking possibly 2 Pirate Skelly (barely nerfed) + 5 Lich + another 5 piece sets.

Also, don't know if I will be able to use Witchmother's anymore. Without stam sustain from siphoning attacks I would be running out of stamina all the time. Perhaps then Amberplasm is the way to go? It has survived a nerf so far.

I honestly find the dev note on Siphoning Attacks hilarious:

This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

I'm sorry but taking away the ability to restore stamina hurts our survivability much more than adding a health restore will help it. The stam regen from siphoning is what allowed me to stay competitive with mag sorcs and others by being able to constantly block their frags or w/e else they may be using. Without the stam recovery I will lose a lot of surviability.

CavalryPK

bubbygink wrote: »

With the sustain nerf does this mean Lich becomes BiS for Magblades in PvP? I'm thinking possibly 2 Pirate Skelly (barely nerfed) + 5 Lich + another 5 piece sets.

I am not sure. We don't know how much of sustain reduction Syphoning Strikes will have. I am going to test it out today when I get home. I am a little confused value vise how much magicka with the new S strikes give.

Since sustain and burst is going to be nerfed all around. I expect to use lich, transmutation or seducer for recovery. while using necro, scathing, julianos for damage. gona have to stick to recovery monster helm, shoulders to help out.

Like @NightbladeMechanics said. we might have to switch to light armor since sustain is going to suck and we will need as much cost reduction as possible.

casparian

bubbygink wrote: »

I honestly find the dev note on Siphoning Attacks hilarious:

This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

I'm sorry but taking away the ability to restore stamina hurts our survivability much more than adding a health restore will help it. The stam regen from siphoning is what allowed me to stay competitive with mag sorcs and others by being able to constantly block their frags or w/e else they may be using. Without the stam recovery I will lose a lot of surviability.

Once again, the fact that the dev team doesn't play certain classes very often is showing. As though what was wrong with magblade was that that we didn't have a HOT.

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

I honestly find the dev note on Siphoning Attacks hilarious:

This is a significant reduction to the Magicka and Stamina restored by these abilities, but the addition of Health restore should give Nightblades more healing to improve their survivability.

I'm sorry but taking away the ability to restore stamina hurts our survivability much more than adding a health restore will help it. The stam regen from siphoning is what allowed me to stay competitive with mag sorcs and others by being able to constantly block their frags or w/e else they may be using. Without the stam recovery I will lose a lot of surviability.

Once again, the fact that the dev team doesn't play certain classes very often is showing. As though what was wrong with magblade was that that we didn't have a HOT.

I totally agree. Syphoning Strikes if used properly you could sustain your stamina. even being at very around 8-10 k.

t3hdubzy

Increased duration was great for siphoning, i never used it due to the short duration but might consider it now. I personally do not slot a heal on most occasions with my nightblades because it rarely makes a difference. Honestly if its not going to heal me during cloak or when im maneuvering, its probably going to be useless. I only need heals when im trying to reset, or get better position, or escape an attack.

Shadow image being able to crit, eh not sure i know of anyone who uses it for damage, and with the last patch i noticed less people using it. I guess it doesnt hurt, but i still dont like the instant aggro. Maybe a pet build would like this.

Shadow cloak, while i hope it does work better, we will have to see if it makes a difference since all the other ways to break cloak are what make it not so desirable.


Crippling grasp was one 2 damage class abilities for damage i used on my magblade but ill be retiring it and only using one now.

Blobsky

I was called and so I shall speak... NOTE I am offering 0 bias here as I want to see ALL classes balanced properly, but probably have more magicka nightblade playtime than anyone else in game.

1) Shadow Cloak: It isn't going to work, the number 1 ultimate cause of cloak breaking is light attacks, especially from pets. Shadow image is the single most nightmare cause for cloak to break, unless it is simply not listed, this isn't fully working and still isn't going to make the bar

2) Shadow Image: Still a great skill, not really a noteable change

3) Leeching Strikes: Yea even if it isn't a toggle, I don't really find it viable on a stamblade, no real need for it... not too fussed about it, the skill still needs a rework, both the old and new won't make my bar

4) Siphoning attacks: I'm fascinated how this heal scales, because it could be ridiculously strong healing in some buids... necro+elegant has never looked more appealing... In terms of loss of magicka/stamina sustain, that is a pretty major hit... Stamina especially is going to shut A LOT of builds down and worries me a fair bit... for certain magicka pools are going to be going lower as people change setups to using triglyphs or trifood a bit more to compensate for stamina. In stamina NB this morph is going to be seriously strong. Not going to lie, siphoning attacks was incredibly overpowered sustain.


Overall?

Nice buff for stamina nightblade here - a bit more reliance on cloak, but I still think it will break... and if siphoning attacks works for heals, that will make stam nb incredibly tanky for sure, a lot of variation opening up where Stam NB was often gimped into 'gank and go' playstyles. I love it here

Pretty bad news for Magicka NB as per usual... Cloak isn't fully patched here, and the siphoning attacks is a huge sustain problem in terms of stamina. Definately ways around it, but Magicka NB is already the unicorn of Cyrodiil. I hope that others will stick with me in making something work. There are nice options in heal over time builds available from the change, I should certianly mention that! But sustain is going to become a hell of a lot harder for many players!

TheStealthDude

The Siphoning Attacks changes seems to essentially kill off Sap Tanks or, at best, forces them into frost staff tanking.

getemshauna

Magicka Nightblade is officialy RIP if I understand correctly the changes to the Siphoning Strikes.

bubbygink

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Increased duration was great for siphoning, i never used it due to the short duration but might consider it now.

I'm sorry but this is crazy talk. How in the world could you play a Magblade in PvP and not slot siphoning attacks? Unless you're a pure ganker or something then that is just a terrible decision IMO.

I'm definitely going to farm Amberplasm in anticipation of these changes. And may have to whip out the ole Willow's Path set as well. With the changes to Siphoning Attacks and the no CP in battlegrounds I will have to dramatically improve my magicka and stam sustain. Although it is too early to see how much magicka SA will restore, it is clear it will now be 0 stam so I will have to account for that. Ccould maybe toy around with taking the stam restoring morph and then just stacking magicka regen with sets like lich but don't think this will work as well.

CavalryPK

Blobsky wrote: »

I was called and so I shall speak... NOTE I am offering 0 bias here as I want to see ALL classes balanced properly, but probably have more magicka nightblade playtime than anyone else in game.

1) Shadow Cloak: It isn't going to work, the number 1 ultimate cause of cloak breaking is light attacks, especially from pets. Shadow image is the single most nightmare cause for cloak to break, unless it is simply not listed, this isn't fully working and still isn't going to make the bar

2) Shadow Image: Still a great skill, not really a noteable change

3) Leeching Strikes: Yea even if it isn't a toggle, I don't really find it viable on a stamblade, no real need for it... not too fussed about it, the skill still needs a rework, both the old and new won't make my bar

4) Siphoning attacks: I'm fascinated how this heal scales, because it could be ridiculously strong healing in some buids... necro+elegant has never looked more appealing... In terms of loss of magicka/stamina sustain, that is a pretty major hit... Stamina especially is going to shut A LOT of builds down and worries me a fair bit... for certain magicka pools are going to be going lower as people change setups to using triglyphs or trifood a bit more to compensate for stamina. In stamina NB this morph is going to be seriously strong. Not going to lie, siphoning attacks was incredibly overpowered sustain.


Overall?

Nice buff for stamina nightblade here - a bit more reliance on cloak, but I still think it will break... and if siphoning attacks works for heals, that will make stam nb incredibly tanky for sure, a lot of variation opening up where Stam NB was often gimped into 'gank and go' playstyles. I love it here

Pretty bad news for Magicka NB as per usual... Cloak isn't fully patched here, and the siphoning attacks is a huge sustain problem in terms of stamina. Definately ways around it, but Magicka NB is already the unicorn of Cyrodiil. I hope that others will stick with me in making something work. There are nice options in heal over time builds available from the change, I should certianly mention that! But sustain is going to become a hell of a lot harder for many players!

Thanks for the grate feedback @Blobsky. Gonna tag the devs here for visibility. @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert

Blobsky

My Pleasure

Tommy_The_Gun

I Hope that Shadow Cloak will actually work against Haunting Curse (double explosion - double de-cloak) which is like 90% spam-able PvP skill ever...

I guess those changes are due to upcoming CP changes / nerf ?

t3hdubzy

bubbygink wrote: »

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Increased duration was great for siphoning, i never used it due to the short duration but might consider it now.

I'm sorry but this is crazy talk. How in the world could you play a Magblade in PvP and not slot siphoning attacks? Unless you're a pure ganker or something then that is just a terrible decision IMO.

I'm definitely going to farm Amberplasm in anticipation of these changes. And may have to whip out the ole Willow's Path set as well. With the changes to Siphoning Attacks and the no CP in battlegrounds I will have to dramatically improve my magicka and stam sustain. Although it is too early to see how much magicka SA will restore, it is clear it will now be 0 stam so I will have to account for that. Ccould maybe toy around with taking the stam restoring morph and then just stacking magicka regen with sets like lich but don't think this will work as well.

Im a bomber, but i do a fair bit of 1v1 as well. Too squishy for 1vx usually unless its scrubs.

I use a lot of low costing skills, and heavy attacks.

brandonv516

So a "buff", a nerf, and something about shadow image? Awesome patch for NBs.

Exciting times are ahead...someday?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Meh, I already had around 4000 magic regeneration, this wont even be noticeable.

Xsorus

Magicka nb will be better off simply because they are stamina dk nor templars

WacArnold

So siphoning attacks will not return stamina Anymore? That is bad, very very bad.

brandonv516

WacArnold wrote: »

So siphoning attacks will not return stamina Anymore? That is bad, very very bad.

Choice is stamina OR magicka, AND health.

zuto40

wow that siphoning nerf, time to level my mag sorc...

arkansas_ESO

Siphoning nerf's going to hurt a lot, no doubt, and the health return doesn't sound very useful. It's not like magic NB needed another HOT.

With cost reduction CP gone and regen nerfs across the board, light armor's off the table unless you're ganking/bombing, or can figure out a way to make light armor work without Annulment, because we definitely can't afford to keep shields up now. Even with the nerfs to Constitution, heavy's still looking like the best way to go.

Cloak's bug fix is nice, but it still doesn't help to solve that just above every build in Cyro runs something that's meant to pull you out of Cloak. I'd still run Mist Form over Cloak.

Shadow Image's bug fix is nice, but not something you'll really notice in PVP. You never ran Shadow Image for the damage, anyways.

Ultimately, unless they saved all the good changes to Merciless, Impale, Swallow Soul, etc. for a future PTS incremental, I don't think magblade's position is going to change much next patch: we'll still be the "unicorns of Cyrodiil" as Blobs put it.

bubbygink

I'm not sure if this would be covered by the NDA but since it is in the base patch I figured maybe it would be ok for somebody to discuss on forums: can anybody confirm what the new value of siphoning attacks is? How significant is the nerf? It currently restores 1090 magicka and stamina per light attack I believe PLUS a 10% chance to restore an additional 2181 magicka and stamina (Is this change being removed? Patch notes were not clear). So works out to be, on average, about 1300 magicka and stamina per light attacks. Would be very curious to see what it is at now. Are talking only 400 magicka per LA? Or more like 800? The value will really affect how hard I view this nerf.