Daggerfall Covenant queuing into Aldmeri Dominion Servers as Aldmeri Dominion tying up our server

zyk

Enodoc wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER.

That's actually not true. Whether it's still accurate, I have no idea, but the numbers have been stated:
The game's PvP area (Cyrodiil) has a population limit of about 1800 players per campaign, but we will have many campaigns running simultaneously.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6533/kw/Campaign population

And I can't remember the source for this one, but the bars are 0-30%, 30-60%, 60-90%, and 90-100%.

So if you break that down, you get this, per alliance:
1 bar - 0-180 players
2 bars - 180-360 players
3 bars - 360-540 players
Lock - 540-600 players

Yes, but: [Updated 03/16/2015 11:21 AM Published 03/14/2014 10:56 PM

Player tests have consistently shown the cap to be much lower.

NACtron

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

That's what he thinks is happening. It isn't known for sure which is all she's saying. It's possible the person enters and a faction is 1 person over pop cap. It's also possible the person enters in place of the person who's queue position is #1.

I believe it still is looking at pop caps. People have seen where they are #3 in queue and then they are pushed back to like #7 in queue. You could assume that it pushes people back in line and doesn't circumvent the pop cap queue. The one that is group queuing everyone sits for a long time at queue position 1 waiting for all the others to allow the pop caps to let them in. Really until ZoS says what their coding does it's anyone guess.

Personal I believe it just lets people bud in line for the queue which is why people can drop in their queue line. It also explains why someone in the group queue has to wait that much longer to queue in players from other factions. This is just my opinion on things I have observed.

This by far the most logical theory thus far. Though I don't even think that many people abusing this mechanic. The que pushing back has happened twice to me in 2 months of logging in for PvP at primetime when there is always a que.

Can someone summerize what evidence there is that this exploit steals the population of other factions?

NACtron

zyk wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER.

That's actually not true. Whether it's still accurate, I have no idea, but the numbers have been stated:
The game's PvP area (Cyrodiil) has a population limit of about 1800 players per campaign, but we will have many campaigns running simultaneously.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6533/kw/Campaign population

And I can't remember the source for this one, but the bars are 0-30%, 30-60%, 60-90%, and 90-100%.

So if you break that down, you get this, per alliance:
1 bar - 0-180 players
2 bars - 180-360 players
3 bars - 360-540 players
Lock - 540-600 players

Yes, but: [Updated 03/16/2015 11:21 AM Published 03/14/2014 10:56 PM

Player tests have consistently shown the cap to be much lower.

I've been apart of multi guild invasions of other campaigns. We brought 6 raids worth of players to a new campaign where the ep pop was low. It instantly went to pop lock and even had a que.

My guess for the population of each faction is around 150. It's just a guess but I feel like it's an educated one based on what I've experienced.

aegisfire1975

As long as we all know this is possible we don't have to worry about waiting in queue anymore, hopefully it will be an even playing field now.

zyk

NACtron wrote: »

My guess for the population of each faction is around 150. It's just a guess but I feel like it's an educated one based on what I've experienced.

I've heard the same from other players who have run different kinds of tests.

This is why IC can have such a big impact on Cyrodiil in a poplocked campaign. Large PVE guilds used to have regular IC nights, sometimes with multiple large groups. They may still, but I do not pay attention.

Earthewen

aegisfire1979 wrote: »

As long as we all know this is possible we don't have to worry about waiting in queue anymore, hopefully it will be an even playing field now.

I don't know that it will stop, but we can hope.

Rohamad_Ali

Any update @ZOS_GinaBruno ? I would hope this doesn't get over looked during testing .

Earthewen

I, too, am waiting for some kind of feedback about this. Something that is rallying us all from different factions is like the Cowboys and the Patriots all rallying on the same cause. Natural enemies are banding together. :-) Still, we would really like information about it.

RadioheadSh0t

Yeah, I don't know any evidence of this counting for another faction's pop, but the fact that you can skip queues using under popped factions needs to be fixed.

I know it can feel like your pop bar doesn't measure how many people are on, but you have to remember that there are plenty of AD PvEers who play in the sewers and outskirts. If one side has organized groups and the other doesn't, it will feel like there is something wrong, but bars aren't a good way to measure population.

DemonNinja

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any update in regards to this issue - it is very clearly continuing to happen.

All of this would be easily remedied if the PvP servers were returned to only allowing you to play one faction for a given campaign duration.

I.E. - If I choose to play AD on Trueflame - I can no longer play EP or DC on that server. I can however chose to play my AD or EP characters on other servers like Haderus etc.

waitwhat

DemonNinja wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any update in regards to this issue - it is very clearly continuing to happen.

All of this would be easily remedied if the PvP servers were returned to only allowing you to play one faction for a given campaign duration.

I.E. - If I choose to play AD on Trueflame - I can no longer play EP or DC on that server. I can however chose to play my AD or EP characters on other servers like Haderus etc.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @DemonNinja 's suggestion would also help out the TOS compliance team by cutting down on scroll-stealing and keep glitching, amongst other nefarious activities.

Although we've been moving to an open-world, open-ended paradigm with One Tamriel, it would be good to keep alliance relevant for the specific context of PvP campaigns.

With the addition an additional PvP medium in Battlegrounds, now may be the best time reintroduce the alliance locks for the duration of campaigns.

For implementation: The next time an account queues for a campaign, the alliance of the queued character sets their campaign lock. Players who logged out in the Imperial City and the Cyrodiil overworld, are either kicked to a PvE zone at campaign's end (if logged out) or their campaign lock is set for the alliance of their current character if they are logged in at the time the campaign ends.

Winnamine

Earthewen wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

I encourage you to stop thinking your "scientific" approach was anything but speculation. Unless your working with ACTUAL numbers. Ya know, like 5, 10, 20, showing on the actual bar itself? You don't know how many other people are coming, going, or crashing at the same time your entering with your raid. You don't know how many people are at the bridge fighting. You don't know how many are in IC or the sewers grinding telvar.

Basically, loading in a raid of people and seeing the bar go up one little increment doesn't show concrete proof that anyone is cheating, exploiting, or being jerks in general to make your faction less viable. Until ZoS shows us the actual population number on that screen, we'll never fully know what's going on. So put the stupid tin foil hat down and rally your faction and do something about it instead of whining here.

Really? Why are you resorting to attacking a guy and telling him he doesn't know anything? How do you know he didn't do exactly what he said and has the grounds to speak? Because you disagree with him?

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

Either way, if it puts them at the head of the line, that is still "butting in line". The question of the pop cap bypass would be easily answered according to the previous poster, Winnie. If his raid was able to get in instantly, and that is what he saw for himself, who are we to say he didn't see it?

I think we can all agree that people are seeing stuff that just doesn't add up and seems fishy. Let's get that stinky fish in the open and gut it is what I think. :-)

It's definitely line jumping, but then, so is joining a group of your own alliance that's already queued. I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, I've had my queue bumped back, I've sat forever at 1 in queue, it sucks. I just don't like speculation and guesses being presented as facts, I find it destructive to the discussion and the game.

DemonNinja

waitwhat wrote: »

For implementation: The next time an account queues for a campaign, the alliance of the queued character sets their campaign lock. Players who logged out in the Imperial City and the Cyrodiil overworld, are either kicked to a PvE zone at campaign's end (if logged out) or their campaign lock is set for the alliance of their current character if they are logged in at the time the campaign ends.

It doesnt even need to be that behind the scenes - if a player queues for a campign on a given faction for the first time a confirmation window could appear and inform the player that if they accept Campaign X will become only playable on Faction Y for the remainder of this campaigns time period. (You may play other factions on other campaigns). Simple accept or decline button. The end.

This kind of a solution would solve SO many problems not just the one mentioned here.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - I really hope something like this gets some serious consideration by the development team.

AbraXuSeXile

This has been a thing since one tamriel. Ever been in a queue that doesnt move for ages then you take 20 places in 1 second. You just got screwed by a premade.

MrsMakeumRage

Wowwwwww this is how they do it! @makeumrage @ohanlon1213 @Renshai27

DTStormfox

I can also confirm this. A friend of me and I tested it out to see whether the rumours were true.
I was in a queue on position 130 in my own alliance, but by grouping with this friend in another alliance I totally bypassed the queue and entered Cyrodiil within seconds. This really needs to be addressed. For example by the server rejecting multi-alliance groups to join the queue. Also I heard it is used as a method to always have a low population and trigger the lowpop bonus too.

Iskrasfemme

Easy to solved

Just ZOS does not allow, in the same campaign, players can change sides at all times.

I suggest a 'penalty' as an alternative - 30 minutes to get into the queue (plus the normal queue time if there is one).

antihero727

Iskra is here
In b4 close.

Ackwalan

I was hoping this was going to be addressed in todays maintenance. Guess not.

Rohamad_Ali

There are too many ongoing issues with PVP that seem to always be last priority for ZoS . Every campaign on NA PC is a reflection of this . Participation is at low point for me . There is no way to make a difference when organized groups have this much power over each campaign and it just becomes a DMV line for Cyrodiils next top emperor . In every other game with anything this game breaking a hotfix would be sent out in days not months . If it is nonissue to ZoS then come out and say it so we can move on . I'm starting to think all the employees are sister and cousins of the owner because anywhere else , even RS games would close down an office and they are seriously slow .

Nermy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we're looking into this.

Did anything ever come from your investigations?

AddiZ

@ZOS_GinaBruno

We are all waiting for an answer

Nermy

Yes, @ZOS_GinaBruno we all are!

themdogesbite

Add a prioritised queue for ESO+ subscribers. Problem solved!

Nermy

themdogesbite wrote: »

Add a prioritised queue for ESO+ subscribers. Problem solved!

And another great reason to subscribe!

G0ku

no need to argue, no need to check, just disable group queue for cyrodiil. easy fix, all solved

Nermy

G0ku wrote: »

no need to argue, no need to check, just disable group queue for cyrodiil. easy fix, all solved

That would work too, though in our guild we use group queue as a form of Quick Queue (QQ). I.e. a couple of people start a queue when they are long and as people log-in, they can join the group and get the benefit of a quicker queue..

I should add we are an EP guild and only queue in EP players...

DemonNinja

G0ku wrote: »

no need to argue, no need to check, just disable group queue for cyrodiil. easy fix, all solved

Yes - that would be the quickest and easiest solution to the problem. I am really disappointed in the fact that we still have had zero response by the developers to this issue. I am fairly certain that it was happening tonight again too.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Is this thing on? <tap><tap><tap>

Ackwalan

Normally when a ZOS name says they are looking in to it, followed by a long period of time of not talking about it. It means, they found a problem and evidence of people exploiting it. They will either spend months trying to fix it, with varied levels of success, or look the other way.

It would be nice, when ZOS found an exploit like this, that they would just come right out and say it is an exploit and people should stop doing it. Cough cough, like the outpost flipping that went on for a week, and not a peep out of them until a month after the fact. Even when people directly asked about it.

Winnamine

Ackwalan wrote: »

Normally when a ZOS name says they are looking in to it, followed by a long period of time of not talking about it. It means, they found a problem and evidence of people exploiting it. They will either spend months trying to fix it, with varied levels of success, or look the other way.

It would be nice, when ZOS found an exploit like this, that they would just come right out and say it is an exploit and people should stop doing it. Cough cough, like the outpost flipping that went on for a week, and not a peep out of them until a month after the fact. Even when people directly asked about it.

It might just be that with the PTS going on and everything, this is a low priority right now.
I mean, let's be honest, while it's annoying and should be fixed, it's not actually game breaking or anything....unless the OP is right about cross faction queues counting against the wrong faction's pop cap AND people are doing this in large enough numbers to really make a difference.