Daggerfall Covenant queuing into Aldmeri Dominion Servers as Aldmeri Dominion tying up our server

Dreyloch

If it's being done, I can assure you it's not to lock you and your elf friends out. It's simply to get into Cyro faster lol. But since ZoS can't/won't give us actual numbers for each population, AND they seem to refuse to separate IC from Cyro as a whole, AND they can't figure out how to make a dynamic pop overflow server, AND they seem to think we should all play nice in PvE when the game has a huge PvP component? This is what we see. Threads upon threads of tin foil hat ideas. As someone else said, go check the Sejanus bridge. Plenty of AD there all the time.

Now if you were gonna tell me you saw 325781258 AD sitting at the gates doing nothing? Then maybe I could believe another faction is using secondary accounts to raise your pop cap. Until then, only ZoS can clarify.

Soul_Demon

Verified this am that the bypass still works. Appreciate that ZOS, there was one last thing encouraging the faction loyalists to PvP- at least the battle and score couldn't be gamed. I am sure 99% of the multi faction players would never do this to get low pop bonus while fielding several raids.....its not like you have screenshots showing complaints of low pop bonus being used to artificially gain an advantage, right? Yeah, don't bother to look for your three bars pop in cyro, they are in the enemy faction.

Anazasi

We tested this last night with a group of AD going in under a DC group leader. I recorded it as well for prosperity. The issue seems to be how population is counted. The group leader signals the server DC-group x 24 inbound and the server records 24 DC inside at entry then it disbands because of faction mismatch. It would appear though the number count remains on population count. There is no count for players while in the campaign meaning the server doesn't check itself periodically; it doesn't scan players and factions while they are in the campaign. The server simply records inbound and outbound numbers / factions. This of course is a terrible work around to pop locks but worse than that it means you can trick the server into reading low pop bonus. Here is the only way to fix this. REMOVE GROUP QUE period. There is no reason a group can not form up inside the campaign. The entire faction swapping, group que, issue has gone on long enough (3 years) it is seriously time to just fix it.

NewBlacksmurf

aegisfire1979 wrote: »

Yes it counts towards the AD population. When you arrive in Cyrodiil under the opposing faction population the group disbands but you are there under the opposing factions population. Then you just regroup and you're good to go. It's an exploit available in the game that the daggerfall covenant has been aware of and exploiting for a very long time. It's just now becoming known to the general population. I always thought people were in the sewers, so I got curious and went down to check and they were not there. Just a few people. I asked around and found out about this and our group tried it and it works. It's just really not ok and needs to be stopped!

It's not just one faction tho. On Xbox one at least....assumed this was addressed loooooong ago as it was brought up on PTS with One Tamriel I believe.

I don't PvP but the guild I was a member of did so hardcore and a new guild I joined last month does this on the pre 50 campaign but it's only 5-6 ppl so I'm not sure it matters.

Either way PvP campaigns need to be removed. That's One Tamriel.....queue group and they all should play one faction grouped. This is beyond dump that ZOS is still trying to lock factions

Just have battlegrounds (not like Morrowind) but like World of Warcraft)

Same rules and all just once capped reset the campaign
Same for other rules and offer campaigns 1/3 the size as well on the lower populated campaigns

rfennell_ESO

All AD on NA-PC have seen a situation where it's 3 bars pop and there is no way there is 3 bars. /zone is nothing but "where is every one".

SirMontyII

This is happening and an actual number instead of the "bar" system of population would easily confirm it. This is a major problem that needs to addressed by ZOS as pvp is hurting in many ways. Please, at the very least, tell us that this is a known issue and it is being addressed.

waitwhat

NACtron wrote: »

Does this theory have any proof?

To consistently do what this theory claims it would require a decent level of coordination from a substantial amount of very nefarious players on a daily basis. My guess would be in order for the pop cap to be impacted enough you will need at least a group of 12+ players. At least. Certainly a full raid of 24 or even more than that to get the impact you are describing.

That is a lot of players and with that many working together on this word would leak fast. Big groups cant keep secrets. And leaked info on who is orchestrating this and who is inolved would be some actual evidence. Which has yet to have been provided here.

I 100% can buy that this is exploit is possible. Cause ZOS. But I (and I'm sure others) would need proof to buy the theory that there are massive groups intentionally out there manipulating the population for one faction or another.

Just to chime in here:
1. Cyrodiil is absolutely that competitive and the amount of nefarious players required for this exploit can be drummed up in minutes. They probably can do a decent job keeping secrets, since the people who are most likely to care and report (like op) are also the people least likely to come in contact with them this intimately.
2. Add to this the fact that it's been reported a few times before, and maybe the secret wasn't kept perfectly, but was kept well enough.

waitwhat

Dreyloch wrote: »

If it's being done, I can assure you it's not to lock you and your elf friends out. It's simply to get into Cyro faster lol. But since ZoS can't/won't give us actual numbers for each population, AND they seem to refuse to separate IC from Cyro as a whole, AND they can't figure out how to make a dynamic pop overflow server, AND they seem to think we should all play nice in PvE when the game has a huge PvP component? This is what we see. Threads upon threads of tin foil hat ideas. As someone else said, go check the Sejanus bridge. Plenty of AD there all the time.

Now if you were gonna tell me you saw 325781258 AD sitting at the gates doing nothing? Then maybe I could believe another faction is using secondary accounts to raise your pop cap. Until then, only ZoS can clarify.

It's an exploit even if you're just using it to circumvent the queue.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Perhaps it's time to break out the 72-hour bans again.

Anazasi

Bypassing the que or artificially inflating the chance for low pop bonus is no different that exploiting AP gains. Apparently however this is yet another coding issue that has no easy solution. The player base has been complaining about populations for some time. They have always complained about the que. They have pondered the true relationship to IC and now we simply have lost the last shred of faith with ZOS to provide some semblance of fair play for the subscribers. Its time ZOS you need to remove the bars and replace with them with numbers that we all can see and know. We are no longer willing to accept speculation on something so basic as player numbers.

The amount of cheating that happens is getting out of hand please police your own game. It's your reputation as a game designer.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I suspect that this has been around for a very long time. How else to explain the faction is poplocked but empty of players. IC's population counting towards the lock certainly doesn't help. The bars are far from accurate and always have been.

Soul_Demon

I know nothing about game design, so this might be a really 'duh' question....but can you not implement a check when queuing into Cyro that assures you are all the same faction when using the group que? Or is that something that would take a lot of code and be too difficult to implement?

DHale

Lucky28 wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

If you need to find AD just go to the bridge... doing nothing most of the time and the others sitting in stealth "ganking" also doing nothing most of the time. I am AD by the way. If they would just take keeps reds and blue would spend tine defending not worrying about our scrolls and bb, bm, and faragyl.

they do take keeps during early morning afternoon when very few are on to stop them. then very annoyed EP and DC log on and kick AD teeth in and they spend the rest of the day at alessia and Roe. that's typically the way it's been for a while, DC oceanic have disgusting pop, then they log off and AD gets three bars while EP and DC sit at 1-2 bars. Then prime time comes and EP and DC see the map is mostly Yellow and say "well *** AD" ironically AD seems to be taking the role of DC's scapegoat.

That certainly may be true, but I have personally watched Alessia get sieged and taken while PC NA AD is standing at the Bridge a mere 20 seconds away.

QuebraRegra

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

All AD on NA-PC have seen a situation where it's 3 bars pop and there is no way there is 3 bars. /zone is nothing but "where is every one".

this would explain some things.... broke, must be addressed.

aegisfire1975

Some of you are still not believing that this is happening or that it doesn't count towards the opposing factions population count. I have stated previously stated that my guild queued under the opposing factions as a test and the bars of population raised to reflect our numbers. Also once you have a 60/60 mount speed you can quickly run around cyrodiil and the sewers to determine if anyone is there. I assure you I checked this out thoroughly. Even though the pop numbers are not shown I've been playing pvp for 3 years so it's pretty easy to get a round about count of how much a bar is. Roughly it is 50 people so if you are part of a guild get a couple groups of 24 together and test it for yourself. It's easy enough. Some of you said that you weren't aware of the effects of queuing under the opposing faction and I can understand that, but there are multiple large guilds that are very much aware of the effect and have been exploiting this for a long time. For those of you who complain about our farmers at the bridge... most of those are people who don't know what else to do because they are solo and outnumbered everywhere else on the map due to being pop locked without the numbers to back it up. They just want to pick up some ap. There's not even that much ap to be had farming the bridge. If they had another option I'm sure they would take it. Thank you ZOS again for looking into this matter. I very much appreciate it.

Kungfu

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

Idinuse

Winnamine wrote: »

For the record, I've never seen or heard of anyone using that group queue loophole except to avoid long queues in their own faction. I don't think many, perhaps any, players are doing it to create population imbalance in their favor. That feels conspiracy theory-ish to me.

IxSTALKERxI

This has only been possible since One Tamriel which is when grouping with players in other factions was introduced.

There has always been that feeling of 'where is my faction' when the population bars indicate you have equal numbers. There are a few things which contribute to this.

1. AD could be at 2.1 bars pop while EP is at 2.9 bars pop. It gets displayed as both factions being on 2 bars, but they could be at either end of the spectrum for what is considered 2 bars of population. One almost having 1 bar more population then the other.

2. Your faction is fighting on multiple fronts. If you push BRK with your group alone while 40 AD are caught up in a 20min fight at brindle, your going to be wondering where on nirn the rest of your faction is... especially if 2x 24man EP raids show up to defend BRK.

3. Your faction has less organised groups then the other faction. If there is only 1 large group online and they are at brindle, and there is 30 AD pugs on alessia bridge, If you go up to Ash milegate and get run over by 3 organised DC 24 man groups (72 people) pushing south it's gonna give you one of those 'where is my faction' moments.

All I'm trying to say is, there are other explanations other than 'omg there must be groups of 40 people exploiting population numbers and they are really good at keeping it a secret among themselves.'

That being said, jumping the queue on your own faction isn't fair and should be fixed. Although, I am in favor of a queue prioritization for those that are top 20 on the leaderboard or emperor... There's nothing worse than disconnecting from the game at your final emperor keep and then finding yourself in a 110 long queue...

Rohamad_Ali

@ZOS_BrianWheeler There is no point in campaign PVP with this happening . That goes beyond exploiting AP like before , that is exploiting an entire campaign . I see no point in playing the map with this exploit active . Your entire PVP game is rekt now . I would recommend a Hot Fix and campaign resets . This also why dropping the faction restrictions was a bad idea . We told you it would be exploited even worse then it was . Now PVP is gone until it's fixed .

KILLING4ALIVING

I am honestly surprised there was still anyone who didn't know about this, there has been multiple threads on it over the past couple of weeks.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323782/stop-the-cross-faction-queue-to-pvp

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327370/remove-group-queue-in-pvp

Good job at OP for getting the attention of and a response from @ZOS_GinaBruno

Please fix it now.

Takllin

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Kungfu

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

Soul_Demon

There always seems to be a never ending shortage of players telling others that concerns they have are actually not viable. Even with others testing this and verifying it exists and is being used. The only thing you cant say is why they would resort to this for sure....maybe its because ZOS seems to not ban this behavior.

Kungfu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

Was there and saw what you saw.....from EP side all the way round the map and not but one single EP group out, but pop locked and unable to bring in any more EP players. Maybe 5 DC on the whole of the map at that time and NOT getting low pop bonus, but two AD raids with an EMP at Ash and two more posted up in the BRK area....with low pop bonus and shockingly not pop locked. DC clearly the ones who needed bonus, yet not getting it.....AD clearly the ones pop locked, not EP, but EP pop locked according to server. Over a period of an hour an a half, no real explanation besides the obvious.

No matter what you subscribe to, IC is bad if it counts to pop lock or players are exploiting the server limits for factions by using group queue to bypass server locks or the obvious one, players are using this to do all of those things plus lock out low pop factions and gain low pop bonuses to win camps all of them are problems that need a solution before they launch their new product. Nothing says we could care less like not addressing concerns of the player base that impact the framework an area of the game is BASED on. Populations and points for a tri faction war zone.

Winnamine

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

Scientific eh?

If you are so sure that your "testing" was accurate, please explain how you accounted for other variables, like oh, Idk, everyone else entering and leaving Cyrodiil during that time frame?

As both @Takllin and @IxSTALKERxI pointed out, each bar represents a range, and there is no way to tell if you're at the high or low end of your population bar. Maybe one person could have joined DC and their pop would have gone up to 3 bars? Without knowing the exact numbers, or at least where in their current bar each faction is (like, low end, high end, middle?), and without being able to account for others entering or leaving Cyrodiil, how can you possibly be certain that the population changes you saw were bc of you?

For that matter, are you even sure that population bars update instantly? Bc if they don't (and btw, I don't think they do, I've solo queued at 3 bars and gotten a queue), then any changes you saw after your test could have been reflecting population shifts 15 minutes, 30 mins, an hour ago.

I think the term for this is confirmation bias. You saw the result you expected/wanted to see, and you ran with it, and refused to consider the other factors that may have affected your results. Please don't call any of this scientific.

Takllin

Winnamine wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

Scientific eh?

If you are so sure that your "testing" was accurate, please explain how you accounted for other variables, like oh, Idk, everyone else entering and leaving Cyrodiil during that time frame?

As both @Takllin and @IxSTALKERxI pointed out, each bar represents a range, and there is no way to tell if you're at the high or low end of your population bar. Maybe one person could have joined DC and their pop would have gone up to 3 bars? Without knowing the exact numbers, or at least where in their current bar each faction is (like, low end, high end, middle?), and without being able to account for others entering or leaving Cyrodiil, how can you possibly be certain that the population changes you saw were bc of you?

For that matter, are you even sure that population bars update instantly? Bc if they don't (and btw, I don't think they do, I've solo queued at 3 bars and gotten a queue), then any changes you saw after your test could have been reflecting population shifts 15 minutes, 30 mins, an hour ago.

I think the term for this is confirmation bias. You saw the result you expected/wanted to see, and you ran with it, and refused to consider the other factors that may have affected your results. Please don't call any of this scientific.

Essentially this.

Your test isn't scientific. You don't know why you got the result you did, you're assuming why. That's why it's stupid to even try and test this. I'm not even saying you're wrong because there's only three end results here and one of them has to be right. Claiming you know which one though is dumb unless you're looking at the game code. Since you can't know what's actually happening it's no use worrying about it, and getting up in arms over it just makes you look like a crazy conspiracy theorist. Again, not saying you're wrong. Just don't tell me I have no proof or don't know what I'm talking about when myself and others are bringing potential issues about your assumption to your attention. Especially when you're not presenting any proof yourself. Usually when you want to present a new idea you show your evidence for why it is the way you say it is, and others try to poke holes to see if it's actually the truth. It's up to you to prove them wrong. "Prove" not type up angry messages on the forums.

Takuto

Kungfu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

When I looked shortly after we got emperor we had 3 bars, red was locked. The previous time I looked maybe 45 minutes to an hour before we were at 2, and red was at 3. So if we were at 2 bars when you looked we were likely very close to 3... but that isn't the unusual thing i find about your post.



You are seriously claiming AD had 4 full raids (96 players)? Who exactly are you claiming fielded that? On Haderus?

I don't know what is more amazing, that you believe you were fighting 96 AD -- *organized* raid groups even, or that you are actually stating that EP had more reserves to call in -- and did -- and that they were only locked out by queue.

Can you at least explain how you believe that you were fighting nearly 100 organized players, and yet also believe that some exploit would be necessary either in their minds or yours for that sheer number of players to not simply sweep the map and win?

For those from TF and elsewhere who may not understand why this claim is strange. Haderus-NA/PC is a campaign where an emperor can be crowned with 12 players, where successful scroll runs are regularly done with 6 or less players, and where keeps are regularly taken with 4 players. On Haderus you can generally assume 20 players is a zerg, 40 is an exaggeration, 60 is a lie, 80 is a damn lie, and 100 is a bad lie.


I know what groups were running on AD, i know who was leading them, and how many people they had.. @Kungfu is far... far off on his estimation. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can only assume that he believes that the 7 DW members RnR wiped at Ash was a full raid and that the partial raid group ~12 players of (DIG2) that wiped RnR in an AJ a couple hundred meters south of ash milegate shortly afterward was a second full raid. And further that the full raid of DIG1 + airborne on the eastern side of the map was an additional two full raids. Still an accusation of cheating based on that -- I can't express how disappointing that is.


To be clear Durham wasn't online during the emperor push Friday night. He had taken the wife and kids out to dinner. He logged maybe a minute before getting crowned emperor. Before even realizing what had happened he was receiving angry tells accusing him of using some exploit he had never heard of.

Soul_Demon

Takuto wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

When I looked shortly after we got emperor we had 3 bars, red was locked. The previous time I looked maybe 45 minutes to an hour before we were at 2, and red was at 3. So if we were at 2 bars when you looked we were likely very close to 3... but that isn't the unusual thing i find about your post.



You are seriously claiming AD had 4 full raids (96 players)? Who exactly are you claiming fielded that? On Haderus?

I don't know what is more amazing, that you believe you were fighting 96 AD -- *organized* raid groups even, or that you are actually stating that EP had more reserves to call in -- and did -- and that they were only locked out by queue.

Can you at least explain how you believe that you were fighting nearly 100 organized players, and yet also believe that some exploit would be necessary either in their minds or yours for that sheer number of players to not simply sweep the map and win?

For those from TF and elsewhere who may not understand why this claim is strange. Haderus-NA/PC is a campaign where an emperor can be crowned with 12 players, where successful scroll runs are regularly done with 6 or less players, and where keeps are regularly taken with 4 players. On Haderus you can generally assume 20 players is a zerg, 40 is an exaggeration, 60 is a lie, 80 is a damn lie, and 100 is a bad lie.


I know what groups were running on AD, i know who was leading them, and how many people they had.. @Kungfu is far... far off on his estimation. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can only assume that he believes that the 7 DW members RnR wiped at Ash was a full raid and that the partial raid group ~12 players of (DIG2) that wiped RnR in an AJ a couple hundred meters south of ash milegate shortly afterward was a second full raid. And further that the full raid of DIG1 + airborne on the eastern side of the map was an additional two full raids. Still an accusation of cheating based on that -- I can't express how disappointing that is.


To be clear Durham wasn't online during the emperor push Friday night. He had taken the wife and kids out to dinner. He logged maybe a minute before getting crowned emperor. Before even realizing what had happened he was receiving angry tells accusing him of using some exploit he had never heard of.

Well, you were not directing to me but since I was there and saw the players with my own eyes feel as though I need to try and understand what you are saying here......is the entire above post written with the "I know what we run and we didn't have that many in our group" along with a lot of who was there if it wasn't us and finally that you 'know' all the players?

If that is the crux of the dismissal for what players viewed with their own eyes, maybe talk to Durham yourself as he and I had a conversation regarding how many were at Ash- he can tell you he said there were 8 in group but when we were speaking I told him we had a count of 36 standing on bodies at that very moment- his response was "we cant help if pugs are following us" and we both had a good laugh. So, to summarize, I saw with my own eyes the numbers in several locations, viewed the low pop bonus take AD from last to first this AM. In fact it is there now as I type this.

Saying in your group there was only xxxx is very twitch channel. Pretending that other players are in fact not there because you are not grouped with them is so last year....not to mention what is on the map at the other side does indeed count when your speaking about some work around that grants low pop bonus- Those keeps that are flagging that you are not at? Those are other groups of players out.

How and who is doing it is what ZOS needs to figure out, not someone to verify to you what they actually saw. Simply disagree and walk away. ZOS will check or not and it matters little to you if they look into it and find problems with someone logging in que with other faction chars to pop lock another faction and win with low pop bonus. A lot of protest for players telling ZOS something is going on that isn't right, for someone who looses nothing if it isn't accurate.

mtwiggz

All factions are more than capable of doing this. I'm sure DC is not the only faction doing so.

Using it to stack population is not the end goal, at least not that I'm aware of. It's to go around the ridiculous prime time queues.

KingJ

Until proof is provided that if you que into a campaign as another faction you take up pop for that faction this is a none issue in my book. Until there is proof there no way to tell what's happening right now.

As I know right now if you have another faction get you in a campaign the group disbands and you count as your own faction. No bans should be sent out until we know the truth.

Earthewen

I totally don't understand how this is a non-issue in anyone's book. The fact is there are still a lot of questions that need answering and there seem to be a lot of nay sayer's claiming that there are no questions. Let's look at the facts though.

1) It is possible to queue as an opposing faction by placing the crown on the head of an "off" faction player and then regrouping once you bypass the queue.

2) The OP has asked a viable question and a concern. How dare anyone say his/her question shouldn't be asked! I find that very offensive and dismissive of everyone here who jumped up to say it is a non-issue. Clearly this player has questions and feelings on the matter that deserve attention. The narrow-mindedness of some of the replies here seem to be more intent on shouting down the OP and others who have the same concern. One has to wonder why they would do that in the first place.

3) ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER. This is an issue that needs to be looked into and answered so that we ALL know the truth. I suspect people have been using this exploit for some time. Even if it is used only to bypass the waiting queue, which others have already admitted to, how is that not an exploit?!!!! Now, if it is not an exploit according to ZOS, then maybe we should all make this a regular practice including all the guilds on EP side to bring about this result, especially since it is a non-issue. Or is it an issue?

4) A great many people (I can only call them trolls) clearly feel that everyone else is wrong and they are the only ones that are right about anything. Instead of trying to shout down other people whose feelings and thoughts differ from yours, why not try to talk like rational adults who are able to speak without throwing insults and trying to belittle those who have spoken up here with questions?

There is a question here that ZOS needs to answer. That is the ultimate fact that needs to be focused on.

Takuto

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Takuto wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

When I looked shortly after we got emperor we had 3 bars, red was locked. The previous time I looked maybe 45 minutes to an hour before we were at 2, and red was at 3. So if we were at 2 bars when you looked we were likely very close to 3... but that isn't the unusual thing i find about your post.



You are seriously claiming AD had 4 full raids (96 players)? Who exactly are you claiming fielded that? On Haderus?

I don't know what is more amazing, that you believe you were fighting 96 AD -- *organized* raid groups even, or that you are actually stating that EP had more reserves to call in -- and did -- and that they were only locked out by queue.

Can you at least explain how you believe that you were fighting nearly 100 organized players, and yet also believe that some exploit would be necessary either in their minds or yours for that sheer number of players to not simply sweep the map and win?

For those from TF and elsewhere who may not understand why this claim is strange. Haderus-NA/PC is a campaign where an emperor can be crowned with 12 players, where successful scroll runs are regularly done with 6 or less players, and where keeps are regularly taken with 4 players. On Haderus you can generally assume 20 players is a zerg, 40 is an exaggeration, 60 is a lie, 80 is a damn lie, and 100 is a bad lie.


I know what groups were running on AD, i know who was leading them, and how many people they had.. @Kungfu is far... far off on his estimation. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can only assume that he believes that the 7 DW members RnR wiped at Ash was a full raid and that the partial raid group ~12 players of (DIG2) that wiped RnR in an AJ a couple hundred meters south of ash milegate shortly afterward was a second full raid. And further that the full raid of DIG1 + airborne on the eastern side of the map was an additional two full raids. Still an accusation of cheating based on that -- I can't express how disappointing that is.


To be clear Durham wasn't online during the emperor push Friday night. He had taken the wife and kids out to dinner. He logged maybe a minute before getting crowned emperor. Before even realizing what had happened he was receiving angry tells accusing him of using some exploit he had never heard of.

Well, you were not directing to me but since I was there and saw the players with my own eyes feel as though I need to try and understand what you are saying here......is the entire above post written with the "I know what we run and we didn't have that many in our group" along with a lot of who was there if it wasn't us and finally that you 'know' all the players?

If that is the crux of the dismissal for what players viewed with their own eyes, maybe talk to Durham yourself as he and I had a conversation regarding how many were at Ash- he can tell you he said there were 8 in group but when we were speaking I told him we had a count of 36 standing on bodies at that very moment- his response was "we cant help if pugs are following us" and we both had a good laugh. So, to summarize, I saw with my own eyes the numbers in several locations, viewed the low pop bonus take AD from last to first this AM. In fact it is there now as I type this.

Saying in your group there was only xxxx is very twitch channel. Pretending that other players are in fact not there because you are not grouped with them is so last year....not to mention what is on the map at the other side does indeed count when your speaking about some work around that grants low pop bonus- Those keeps that are flagging that you are not at? Those are other groups of players out.

How and who is doing it is what ZOS needs to figure out, not someone to verify to you what they actually saw. Simply disagree and walk away. ZOS will check or not and it matters little to you if they look into it and find problems with someone logging in que with other faction chars to pop lock another faction and win with low pop bonus. A lot of protest for players telling ZOS something is going on that isn't right, for someone who looses nothing if it isn't accurate.

I was leading the DW group at ash, so I was there. No "pugs" followed us in, there were exactly 8 of us, not 1 more or less. As I was the only member of the group to die in an unrezzable place I released back to Nikel and had a great view of DIG2 flattening RnR with a visibly smaller raid in the field south of the milegate. After they wiped RnR they joined us at ash afterward, if there were "pugs" following DIG2 in, it isn't likely there were many, as the action would have appeared to have been on the eastern side of the map to the casual observer and we weren't advertising what we were doing in zone.

Durham wasn't at ash, he hadn't left the the elsweyr gate at the point he was crowned emperor because he wasn't logged in during the emperor push. He didn't even know that there was going to be a push other than vaguely we would try to put something together. How in the world would he know how many people were at a specific keep at a specific time?

Aside from that -- as far as I am aware low-population bonus lags behind 'bar' based population and is just a snapshot of population in time -- presumably at score increment. Someone who actually gives a crap about the pointless campaign score mechanic might be able to shed more light on the issue. Taking the low-population bonus as a measure of actual population is just plain absurd.