Daggerfall Covenant queuing into Aldmeri Dominion Servers as Aldmeri Dominion tying up our server

Durham

This is total crap I received so many tells about cheating that night ...
I simply logged on after getting back home with my wife and kids... I was crowned emperor almost as soon as i logged in.... I was extremely surprised, however all night I was called cheater by random people from the red side... Evidently there was chatter on the RED side about Yellow cheating....so I was sent tells... Honestly I never want to be emp...again because of the BS that comes with it....
There was no organized action to pop lock anyone's campaign that I'm aware of.... There was never 4 full raid groups... As soon as I became emp I was told what forces we had... The person who helped organize the emp push did not even know you can lock out another campaign. HE does not spend time on the boards..... I know the guy he runs with me every night great guy....
Yellow has been on life support for a few weeks on Haderous we actually succeeded 1 time at something after pushing 3 times earlier in the week thanks to DIG.. We just never had the numbers and finally we did it and we are cheating lol....
By the way I knew it was going to be short reign by 11:30 that night we had less then a battle group to defend ROE from blue... We never had the numbers to hold it except for the 1st hour...

Soul_Demon

Takuto wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Takuto wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
You want proof, log someone into Haderus now / soon.
Pop locked EP with only one full raid fielded & one small raid pugging about...
DC pop locked while only fielding about one raid or so (their numbers I couldn't verify but it seemed a HELL of a lot fewer than EP has)

While AD has low pop bonus, two bars, and is able to field 4+ full raids: roughly two took Ash at the same time as a single raid was seen at each BRK and Chal.

Please understand: I'm not being alarmist and I am attempting my best at compensating for peoples' natural ability to over-count when they see enemies. This is why I collected the information from very well seasoned players / friends who were on the walls while I got summarily roflstomped at Ash.

And I don't really care about dying or losing to larger numbers: that's exactly what Cyrodiil is all about... numbers. But I think everyone has a much more entertaining time with *any* game when the rules are followed.

Exploiting to win is the best compliment y'all can give to the team you can't beat any other way. So, thank you for that.

When I looked shortly after we got emperor we had 3 bars, red was locked. The previous time I looked maybe 45 minutes to an hour before we were at 2, and red was at 3. So if we were at 2 bars when you looked we were likely very close to 3... but that isn't the unusual thing i find about your post.



You are seriously claiming AD had 4 full raids (96 players)? Who exactly are you claiming fielded that? On Haderus?

I don't know what is more amazing, that you believe you were fighting 96 AD -- *organized* raid groups even, or that you are actually stating that EP had more reserves to call in -- and did -- and that they were only locked out by queue.

Can you at least explain how you believe that you were fighting nearly 100 organized players, and yet also believe that some exploit would be necessary either in their minds or yours for that sheer number of players to not simply sweep the map and win?

For those from TF and elsewhere who may not understand why this claim is strange. Haderus-NA/PC is a campaign where an emperor can be crowned with 12 players, where successful scroll runs are regularly done with 6 or less players, and where keeps are regularly taken with 4 players. On Haderus you can generally assume 20 players is a zerg, 40 is an exaggeration, 60 is a lie, 80 is a damn lie, and 100 is a bad lie.


I know what groups were running on AD, i know who was leading them, and how many people they had.. @Kungfu is far... far off on his estimation. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I can only assume that he believes that the 7 DW members RnR wiped at Ash was a full raid and that the partial raid group ~12 players of (DIG2) that wiped RnR in an AJ a couple hundred meters south of ash milegate shortly afterward was a second full raid. And further that the full raid of DIG1 + airborne on the eastern side of the map was an additional two full raids. Still an accusation of cheating based on that -- I can't express how disappointing that is.


To be clear Durham wasn't online during the emperor push Friday night. He had taken the wife and kids out to dinner. He logged maybe a minute before getting crowned emperor. Before even realizing what had happened he was receiving angry tells accusing him of using some exploit he had never heard of.

Well, you were not directing to me but since I was there and saw the players with my own eyes feel as though I need to try and understand what you are saying here......is the entire above post written with the "I know what we run and we didn't have that many in our group" along with a lot of who was there if it wasn't us and finally that you 'know' all the players?

If that is the crux of the dismissal for what players viewed with their own eyes, maybe talk to Durham yourself as he and I had a conversation regarding how many were at Ash- he can tell you he said there were 8 in group but when we were speaking I told him we had a count of 36 standing on bodies at that very moment- his response was "we cant help if pugs are following us" and we both had a good laugh. So, to summarize, I saw with my own eyes the numbers in several locations, viewed the low pop bonus take AD from last to first this AM. In fact it is there now as I type this.

Saying in your group there was only xxxx is very twitch channel. Pretending that other players are in fact not there because you are not grouped with them is so last year....not to mention what is on the map at the other side does indeed count when your speaking about some work around that grants low pop bonus- Those keeps that are flagging that you are not at? Those are other groups of players out.

How and who is doing it is what ZOS needs to figure out, not someone to verify to you what they actually saw. Simply disagree and walk away. ZOS will check or not and it matters little to you if they look into it and find problems with someone logging in que with other faction chars to pop lock another faction and win with low pop bonus. A lot of protest for players telling ZOS something is going on that isn't right, for someone who looses nothing if it isn't accurate.

I was leading the DW group at ash, so I was there. No "pugs" followed us in, there were exactly 8 of us, not 1 more or less. As I was the only member of the group to die in an unrezzable place I released back to Nikel and had a great view of DIG2 flattening RnR with a visibly smaller raid in the field south of the milegate. After they wiped RnR they joined us at ash afterward, if there were "pugs" following DIG2 in, it isn't likely there were many, as the action would have appeared to have been on the eastern side of the map to the casual observer and we weren't advertising what we were doing in zone.

Durham wasn't at ash, he hadn't left the the elsweyr gate at the point he was crowned emperor because he wasn't logged in during the emperor push. He didn't even know that there was going to be a push other than vaguely we would try to put something together. How in the world would he know how many people were at a specific keep at a specific time?

Aside from that -- as far as I am aware low-population bonus lags behind 'bar' based population and is just a snapshot of population in time -- presumably at score increment. Someone who actually gives a crap about the pointless campaign score mechanic might be able to shed more light on the issue. Taking the low-population bonus as a measure of actual population is just plain absurd.

Durham

Great response .. very sarcastic and constructive ... you folks come on the forms claiming someone or a group of people cheated and demand that someone listens. Yellow responds and you refuse to acknowledge or listen what we say... The people that were involved in the EMP push have said they did not lock you out.. I know one of them that did the push and he would not do it nor did he even know you could... ... Now the only other group would be Trueflame spillovers and I do not see them doing this why would they even care or take the time to do it...

kevlarto_ESO

aegisfire1979 wrote: »

This matter needs to be discussed and addressed. They've been doing this a long time. Have you ever noticed that you look around the campaign and wonder where all of AD is when it says we have 3 bars of population and there's no one around except a few... But blue seems to have endless numbers under 1 bar of population? That's because they group queue under one Aldmeri Dominion character and it counts towards our campaign population. I wouldn't have believed this to be possible until I saw it first hand for myself. Why is this allowed and is this considered a cheat or exploit or like everything else is that considered to be part of the game? Please address this issue ZOS. Please stop this! It is ruining PVP for all of us. The only choice that we have is to do the same back to them but it doesn't feel right.

Thank you for your help with this matter.

It does no surprise me, the lengths people will go through to cheat and grief others in a video game seems to know no bounds, really sad. I hope zos does take look at this I wonder how they will manipulate the que for the small scale to get those pre-mades in to wreck the fun of the average player. Shame on the people doing this, geez really.

Publius_Scipio

Not sure about the rest of you, but I wouldn't be surprised if Miat is the one behind all of this.

Enodoc

Earthewen wrote: »

ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER.

That's actually not true. Whether it's still accurate, I have no idea, but the numbers have been stated:
The game's PvP area (Cyrodiil) has a population limit of about 1800 players per campaign, but we will have many campaigns running simultaneously.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6533/kw/Campaign population

And I can't remember the source for this one, but the bars are 0-30%, 30-60%, 60-90%, and 90-100%.

So if you break that down, you get this, per alliance:
1 bar - 0-180 players
2 bars - 180-360 players
3 bars - 360-540 players
Lock - 540-600 players

AnnieBeGood

Well today on Azura EU it looks as though this forum has been thoroughly digested and now there are more blues than anyone else.

I am not sure how they are doing it but there were definitely more full raids than normal. And way less ep than there should be with pop lock.

It seems everybody who likes to bend the rules knows how now.

DaveMoeDee

waitwhat wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

If it's being done, I can assure you it's not to lock you and your elf friends out. It's simply to get into Cyro faster lol. But since ZoS can't/won't give us actual numbers for each population, AND they seem to refuse to separate IC from Cyro as a whole, AND they can't figure out how to make a dynamic pop overflow server, AND they seem to think we should all play nice in PvE when the game has a huge PvP component? This is what we see. Threads upon threads of tin foil hat ideas. As someone else said, go check the Sejanus bridge. Plenty of AD there all the time.

Now if you were gonna tell me you saw 325781258 AD sitting at the gates doing nothing? Then maybe I could believe another faction is using secondary accounts to raise your pop cap. Until then, only ZoS can clarify.

It's an exploit even if you're just using it to circumvent the queue.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Perhaps it's time to break out the 72-hour bans again.

I disagree. Joining a group that is high up in queue is not an exploit. That is by design. Sure, it is weird now due to cross faction grouping that came with One Tamriel. Perhaps it makes more sense to drop everyone who is not in the same alliance as the group leader when they get into Cyrodiil. Until they do that, it is legit for cross alliance queueing and it doesn't seem like we know if that causes cap issues.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler There is no point in campaign PVP with this happening . That goes beyond exploiting AP like before , that is exploiting an entire campaign . I see no point in playing the map with this exploit active . Your entire PVP game is rekt now . I would recommend a Hot Fix and campaign resets . This also why dropping the faction restrictions was a bad idea . We told you it would be exploited even worse then it was . Now PVP is gone until it's fixed .

This is the reason why I only go to Cryodiil to do the bounty quests for the xp. When the cake xp ends on Tues, I'll stop going. No real point anymore, most of the gear you can get with APs is really not that good. And there's only a few decent gear sets in IC for T-stone that are worthwhile.

Neoauspex

@ZOS_GinaBruno any update?

Soul_Demon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.

Quoted this Jessica, as we have only heard that its being looked into to date.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel

NBrookus

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Was there and saw what you saw.....from EP side all the way round the map and not but one single EP group out, but pop locked and unable to bring in any more EP players. Maybe 5 DC on the whole of the map at that time and NOT getting low pop bonus, but two AD raids with an EMP at Ash and two more posted up in the BRK area....with low pop bonus and shockingly not pop locked. DC clearly the ones who needed bonus, yet not getting it.....AD clearly the ones pop locked, not EP, but EP pop locked according to server. Over a period of an hour an a half, no real explanation besides the obvious.

On the night in question, I was on DC. EP certainly seemed very much pop-locked from the blue point of view. At the point EP was pop-locked, AD had 3 bars and emp and DC had 1 bar, there were two large (20+) EP guild groups that I didn't recognize the tabards from. They were hitting DC of course. These two groups were probably off EP's regular radar. If you want to look for why you couldn't bring in more players, look there first.

The core AD and EP blobs on the ring otherwise appeared to be about the same size.

That AD had a low pop bonus and DC did not was very annoying, but that thing always seems to be broken.

Takllin

Enodoc wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER.

That's actually not true. Whether it's still accurate, I have no idea, but the numbers have been stated:
The game's PvP area (Cyrodiil) has a population limit of about 1800 players per campaign, but we will have many campaigns running simultaneously.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6533/kw/Campaign population

And I can't remember the source for this one, but the bars are 0-30%, 30-60%, 60-90%, and 90-100%.

So if you break that down, you get this, per alliance:
1 bar - 0-180 players
2 bars - 180-360 players
3 bars - 360-540 players
Lock - 540-600 players

It's not accurate. The population cap has been reduced around 3 times and the community has been specifically told that they will not be given the new numbers.

It's probably for the same reason a lot of games stop reporting subs/player counts when things go bad because they don't want people to have hard evidence that their game is dying.

Enodoc

Takllin wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

ZOS will not, does not, nor ever has answered the question of what numbers the bars represent. EVER.

That's actually not true. Whether it's still accurate, I have no idea, but the numbers have been stated:
The game's PvP area (Cyrodiil) has a population limit of about 1800 players per campaign, but we will have many campaigns running simultaneously.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6533/kw/Campaign population

And I can't remember the source for this one, but the bars are 0-30%, 30-60%, 60-90%, and 90-100%.

So if you break that down, you get this, per alliance:
1 bar - 0-180 players
2 bars - 180-360 players
3 bars - 360-540 players
Lock - 540-600 players

It's not accurate. The population cap has been reduced around 3 times and the community has been specifically told that they will not be given the new numbers.

Right, that's what I was thinking. If that's the case though, why don't they remove the number from that Support article? They know it's there, I've mentioned it enough times in the past.

Dreyloch

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

I encourage you to stop thinking your "scientific" approach was anything but speculation. Unless your working with ACTUAL numbers. Ya know, like 5, 10, 20, showing on the actual bar itself? You don't know how many other people are coming, going, or crashing at the same time your entering with your raid. You don't know how many people are at the bridge fighting. You don't know how many are in IC or the sewers grinding telvar.

Basically, loading in a raid of people and seeing the bar go up one little increment doesn't show concrete proof that anyone is cheating, exploiting, or being jerks in general to make your faction less viable. Until ZoS shows us the actual population number on that screen, we'll never fully know what's going on. So put the stupid tin foil hat down and rally your faction and do something about it instead of whining here.

Earthewen

NBrookus wrote: »

On the night in question, I was on DC. EP certainly seemed very much pop-locked from the blue point of view. At the point EP was pop-locked, AD had 3 bars and emp and DC had 1 bar, there were two large (20+) EP guild groups that I didn't recognize the tabards from. They were hitting DC of course. These two groups were probably off EP's regular radar. If you want to look for why you couldn't bring in more players, look there first.

The core AD and EP blobs on the ring otherwise appeared to be about the same size.

That AD had a low pop bonus and DC did not was very annoying, but that thing always seems to be broken.

From what I'm hearing and have experienced thus far, those bars don't mean anything at all until we can nail down ZOS and get an explanation. I understand that they have had recent posts about it, but it just doesn't match what we are all seeing on the map. Many of us in all three factions can agree that there is something amiss. Most of us have played in PVP for years. I've spent a great deal of time there as well.

The low pop is broken for sure. The pop bars are totally in question. The exploitation of these things is up in the air and ZOS has admitted that exploitations and cheats are on the rise. Thank you, @Soul_Demon for that link. I hadn't read it in a long time and the refresher was needed. In fact, I think SEVERAL people needed it.

"Me thinks he doth protest too much." LOL

SneaK

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Earthewen

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

totally agree

Winnamine

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

SneaK

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

NBrookus

Earthewen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

On the night in question, I was on DC. EP certainly seemed very much pop-locked from the blue point of view. At the point EP was pop-locked, AD had 3 bars and emp and DC had 1 bar, there were two large (20+) EP guild groups that I didn't recognize the tabards from. They were hitting DC of course. These two groups were probably off EP's regular radar. If you want to look for why you couldn't bring in more players, look there first.

The core AD and EP blobs on the ring otherwise appeared to be about the same size.

That AD had a low pop bonus and DC did not was very annoying, but that thing always seems to be broken.

From what I'm hearing and have experienced thus far, those bars don't mean anything at all until we can nail down ZOS and get an explanation. I understand that they have had recent posts about it, but it just doesn't match what we are all seeing on the map. Many of us in all three factions can agree that there is something amiss. Most of us have played in PVP for years. I've spent a great deal of time there as well.

I agree the bars are useless at best and deceptive at worst. We all have those "where is my faction?!" moments. IC being included in the pop counter just makes it worse. But in this case, I could tell you exactly where your missing faction numbers were: Dragonclaw and Warden. Trust me, you weren't missing out on much help.

I don't know if there's anyone deliberately exploiting the queue. But I kinda doubt anyone would bother on Haderus, which is pretty much a garbage pvdoor emp flip campaign at this point. If EP doesn't have emp and all the scrolls by 10am, they must have slept in late.

Winnamine

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

SneaK

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

Fair enough. No matter the findings though, something tells me they aren't going to come out and say that the pops were broken. They'll just say they've identified the issue and are working on a fix. Then, they'll remove the function to cross-faction queue and say everything is fixed. ie. we'll never know the details.

Either way, they need to remove the cross-faction queue function, serves no purpose other than skipping a line and/or destroying population balance.

Earthewen

Dreyloch wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

I encourage you to stop thinking your "scientific" approach was anything but speculation. Unless your working with ACTUAL numbers. Ya know, like 5, 10, 20, showing on the actual bar itself? You don't know how many other people are coming, going, or crashing at the same time your entering with your raid. You don't know how many people are at the bridge fighting. You don't know how many are in IC or the sewers grinding telvar.

Basically, loading in a raid of people and seeing the bar go up one little increment doesn't show concrete proof that anyone is cheating, exploiting, or being jerks in general to make your faction less viable. Until ZoS shows us the actual population number on that screen, we'll never fully know what's going on. So put the stupid tin foil hat down and rally your faction and do something about it instead of whining here.

Really? Why are you resorting to attacking a guy and telling him he doesn't know anything? How do you know he didn't do exactly what he said and has the grounds to speak? Because you disagree with him?

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

Either way, if it puts them at the head of the line, that is still "butting in line". The question of the pop cap bypass would be easily answered according to the previous poster, Winnie. If his raid was able to get in instantly, and that is what he saw for himself, who are we to say he didn't see it?

I think we can all agree that people are seeing stuff that just doesn't add up and seems fishy. Let's get that stinky fish in the open and gut it is what I think. :-)

Takllin

Earthewen wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

I encourage you to stop thinking your "scientific" approach was anything but speculation. Unless your working with ACTUAL numbers. Ya know, like 5, 10, 20, showing on the actual bar itself? You don't know how many other people are coming, going, or crashing at the same time your entering with your raid. You don't know how many people are at the bridge fighting. You don't know how many are in IC or the sewers grinding telvar.

Basically, loading in a raid of people and seeing the bar go up one little increment doesn't show concrete proof that anyone is cheating, exploiting, or being jerks in general to make your faction less viable. Until ZoS shows us the actual population number on that screen, we'll never fully know what's going on. So put the stupid tin foil hat down and rally your faction and do something about it instead of whining here.

Really? Why are you resorting to attacking a guy and telling him he doesn't know anything? How do you know he didn't do exactly what he said and has the grounds to speak? Because you disagree with him?

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

Either way, if it puts them at the head of the line, that is still "butting in line". The question of the pop cap bypass would be easily answered according to the previous poster, Winnie. If his raid was able to get in instantly, and that is what he saw for himself, who are we to say he didn't see it?

I think we can all agree that people are seeing stuff that just doesn't add up and seems fishy. Let's get that stinky fish in the open and gut it is what I think. :-)

That's what he thinks is happening. It isn't known for sure which is all she's saying. It's possible the person enters and a faction is 1 person over pop cap. It's also possible the person enters in place of the person who's queue position is #1.

AnnieBeGood

I find all this very very depressing. I love pvp, the strategy, the planning..... looking at the map and deciding where would break a lock up...

And I know I am being naïve but why for goodness sake do people feel cheating is winning?

And why are ZOS not enforcing their rules? because all you have to do is play there and you suddenly begin to notice its not just he/she is a better player but somehow they are changing the base.

That cannot be acceptable.

Soul_Demon

Takllin wrote: »

That's what he thinks is happening. It isn't known for sure which is all she's saying. It's possible the person enters and a faction is 1 person over pop cap. It's also possible the person enters in place of the person who's queue position is #1.

Of course, no absolute anything without ZOS verifying. Except one thing that stands out, "or bypassing core game mechanics" that is considered exploiting by ZOS. Not sure how long till we start seeing the standard cries of "you should have fixed it before I exploited it, its your fault ZOS"

I always hear "Your honor, its the banks fault. Everyone likes money, and they should have better security there so I couldn't have robbed it. They should be on trial here not me"

Crispen_Longbow

Takllin wrote: »

That's what he thinks is happening. It isn't known for sure which is all she's saying. It's possible the person enters and a faction is 1 person over pop cap. It's also possible the person enters in place of the person who's queue position is #1.

I believe it still is looking at pop caps. People have seen where they are #3 in queue and then they are pushed back to like #7 in queue. You could assume that it pushes people back in line and doesn't circumvent the pop cap queue. The one that is group queuing everyone sits for a long time at queue position 1 waiting for all the others to allow the pop caps to let them in. Really until ZoS says what their coding does it's anyone guess.

Personal I believe it just lets people bud in line for the queue which is why people can drop in their queue line. It also explains why someone in the group queue has to wait that much longer to queue in players from other factions. This is just my opinion on things I have observed.

Rohamad_Ali

Hotfix this please .

DaveMoeDee

Earthewen wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Kungfu wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

A lot of conspiracy theorists in this thread.

You don't know how it works. You haven't tested it well enough, and you can't. You're dealing with something far too variable and unknown for you to make a judgement on it. You can queue a full raid of AD under a DC queue and watch the DC bar go up, but it's also possible some random person joined DC and they were only one player away from going up a bar while AD was on the low end of their bar.

I don't even think ZOS knows how their campaign population system works and they designed it. Does no one else remember the population graph of Thornblade that miraculously showed EP with more population during periods when all factions had queues going? That's before this was even possible. Also the issue of "where's my faction" goes back even before IC as a few other posters have mentioned. It's not a gauge on what's happening when you group queue.

Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else: it's not hard to test and you're clearly posting here without having tried to test yourself. Please at least attempt something remotely scientific before calling foul.

Testing is easy for a guild that can muster one full raid. I'm not going to say anything more in public as we have already done everything we can to communicate our root cause analysis and steps to replicate our results directly to ZOS. Awaiting response... hopefully we can get one in private as dirty laundry need not be aired publicly any more than it already has.

But, coming from someone who has tested this with a full raid, please save your comments until you've done your own homework.

I encourage you to stop thinking your "scientific" approach was anything but speculation. Unless your working with ACTUAL numbers. Ya know, like 5, 10, 20, showing on the actual bar itself? You don't know how many other people are coming, going, or crashing at the same time your entering with your raid. You don't know how many people are at the bridge fighting. You don't know how many are in IC or the sewers grinding telvar.

Basically, loading in a raid of people and seeing the bar go up one little increment doesn't show concrete proof that anyone is cheating, exploiting, or being jerks in general to make your faction less viable. Until ZoS shows us the actual population number on that screen, we'll never fully know what's going on. So put the stupid tin foil hat down and rally your faction and do something about it instead of whining here.

Really? Why are you resorting to attacking a guy and telling him he doesn't know anything? How do you know he didn't do exactly what he said and has the grounds to speak? Because you disagree with him?

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Regardless of the accuracy of the bars, you shouldn't be able to queue another alliance into a campaign. It allows them to bypass their alliance's population cap, so it's obviously not working as intended.

Well, we don't know that actually. All we do know is that it allows players to bypass their own faction's queue times...and probably increases the queue time for the faction they are queuing with.
Still a problem, and something that needs to be fixed, ofc.

I have queued some blue friends into my server's most populated campaign, where they normally have a 100+ queue, they were able to join instantly. So, I'll just base my opinion on my experiences. To which, it seems there is no way they aren't bypassing the population cap.

Or your queue is simply putting them at the head of the line. I'm not saying it doesn't bypass pop caps, I'm only saying we don't know that for sure, and we won't know until ZOS either confirms it for us, or allows us to see population numbers rather than just bars so we can accurately test it ourselves.

Either way, if it puts them at the head of the line, that is still "butting in line". The question of the pop cap bypass would be easily answered according to the previous poster, Winnie. If his raid was able to get in instantly, and that is what he saw for himself, who are we to say he didn't see it?

I think we can all agree that people are seeing stuff that just doesn't add up and seems fishy. Let's get that stinky fish in the open and gut it is what I think. :-)

If that is "butting in line", then it is also butting in line if I join a queue group of people all in my alliance. The solution to people skipping the line is either (1) not allowing group queuing at all or (2) making groups wait for the last members who joined per alliance to have available slots.