[Video]The QAM HAM, DW Magic Sorc build. 58K MAGICKA?!! What Wrobel DOESN'T want you to know!!!

Lord_Hev

Here it is Ladies and Gents. The QAM HAM build I have been running as DW Magic Sorcerer since Dark Brotherhood patch, and has evolved ever since to the pinnacle it is today. Now you too, can harness the power yourself! Are you daring enough, to venture into the arts of yolo? CAN YOU HANDLE IT???



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DbueUfgkX0

Lord_Invel

Nice video Qae

Lexxypwns

Why entropy instead of curse on the inner light/aegis setup? Seems like that curse should crit for 12k on light armor, no?

Lord_Hev

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Why entropy instead of curse on the inner light/aegis setup? Seems like that curse should crit for 12k on light armor, no?

Entropy is mandatory for the major sorcerer + Empowerment. Empowered Frags/Shooting Stars/DBoS are what accomplish the bursts and record hits.

Elong

@Baconlad

NBrookus

Incoming QAM HAM sandwiches to a campaign near your!

Skitttles

Exposing secrets revealed for a limited time only! -->CLICK HERE FOR MORE<--

Minalan

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Why entropy instead of curse on the inner light/aegis setup? Seems like that curse should crit for 12k on light armor, no?

Entropy is mandatory for the major sorcerer + Empowerment. Empowered Frags/Shooting Stars/DBoS are what accomplish the bursts and record hits.

You could fit curse on the 'less yolo' setup without aegis. But without inner light double barred, your Magicka jumps around quite a bit on every bar swap. Which is annoying.

I'm impressed as hell you can keep your Magicka up with that sustain.

Lord_Hev

Minalan wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Why entropy instead of curse on the inner light/aegis setup? Seems like that curse should crit for 12k on light armor, no?

Entropy is mandatory for the major sorcerer + Empowerment. Empowered Frags/Shooting Stars/DBoS are what accomplish the bursts and record hits.

You could fit curse on the 'less yolo' setup without aegis. But without inner light double barred, your Magicka jumps around quite a bit on every bar swap. Which is annoying.

I'm impressed as hell you can keep your Magicka up with that sustain.

I already do without having to have wonky bars. It's just curse instead of aegis on DW, and Inner light instead of Aegis on Resto.


The only way to have curse with a 58k magic damage bar is back-barring it and only running Hardened ward and heal ward. I might give that a try.

Biro123

Running he mage rather than thief. Is it better to have bigger base hits than having a more chance of all your burst abilities critting?

btw, how much more spell-power do you get from DW as opposed to destroy, how much does it increase your dmg when compared wit losing the 3% extra dmg from flame staff and the weaves.?

Jsmalls

@Biro123

The mage helps in several ways. You start with a larger pool so it's harder to run out. It makes you hit harder. And it makes your shields stronger. Plus Sorcs are about burst, not sustained DPS.

@Lord_Hev

Very interesting build, and nice to see someone actually playing the class to it's advantages. 0 points into erosion though? Especially with the heavy armor meta.
If I wasn't in love with Destro and S&B, this would look really fun to try.

Biro123

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Biro123

The mage helps in several ways. You start with a larger pool so it's harder to run out. It makes you hit harder. And it makes your shields stronger. Plus Sorcs are about burst, not sustained DPS.

@Lord_Hev

Very interesting build, and nice to see someone actually playing the class to it's advantages. 0 points into erosion though? Especially with the heavy armor meta.
If I wasn't in love with Destro and S&B, this would look really fun to try.

I think you misunderstand me.. I'm not talking about sustained dps.. Its when your burst consists of 3 abilities hitting together its a question around how many of those 3 abilities crit during that one burst. Surely a chance at more critting together will result in a larger burst (at least against a non-shielded target)..?

Some quick maths (if I remember how to do this).. and also I'm not sure exactly how much of a % crit increase thief does.. lets assume 12%:

Without Thief (44%crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.44 x 0.44 x 0.44 = 0.085 (7%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.44 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.44) = 0.325(32%)

With Thief (56% crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.56 x 0.56 x 0.56 = 0.175 (18%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.56 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.56) = 0.413(41%)

But then, a higher base damage may mean needing less crits to kill the target. I just find it odd to pump so many points into crit damage and not run Thief.

PandaIsAPotato

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Biro123

The mage helps in several ways. You start with a larger pool so it's harder to run out. It makes you hit harder. And it makes your shields stronger. Plus Sorcs are about burst, not sustained DPS.

@Lord_Hev

Very interesting build, and nice to see someone actually playing the class to it's advantages. 0 points into erosion though? Especially with the heavy armor meta.
If I wasn't in love with Destro and S&B, this would look really fun to try.

I think you misunderstand me.. I'm not talking about sustained dps.. Its when your burst consists of 3 abilities hitting together its a question around how many of those 3 abilities crit during that one burst. Surely a chance at more critting together will result in a larger burst (at least against a non-shielded target)..?

Some quick maths (if I remember how to do this).. and also I'm not sure exactly how much of a % crit increase thief does.. lets assume 12%:

Without Thief (44%crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.44 x 0.44 x 0.44 = 0.085 (7%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.44 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.44) = 0.325(32%)

With Thief (56% crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.56 x 0.56 x 0.56 = 0.175 (18%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.56 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.56) = 0.413(41%)

But then, a higher base damage may mean needing less crits to kill the target. I just find it odd to pump so many points into crit damage and not run Thief.

@Biro123
I ran max crit damage setup with Shadow way back when on Stam DK and only had 45-55% crit, thief just doesn't give enough to warrant it's usage. It's bad for PvP imo, but back then if my Leaps crit somebody it was a guaranteed one shot for upwards of 25k damage, hardest hitting leap I ever got was against Methuselah at 32k, granted his shields were down because he was repping a wall at drakelowe after Pvdooring it at 6am. Hueh hueh. I'd also assume he had zero impen or crit damage reduction in CP because he relies on his shields.

Shadow > Thief if you're looking for damage, but in Sorcerers' position I'd take Mage as well because more Magicka means more shields, more shields means more survival, less recasting of shields means more long term sustain, more inherent damage. etc.

@Lord_Hev go get Emp and break 100k now, do it you won't.

GrigorijMalahevich

That 19k Frag... Poor dude

Moar videos brother!

Minalan

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Why entropy instead of curse on the inner light/aegis setup? Seems like that curse should crit for 12k on light armor, no?

Entropy is mandatory for the major sorcerer + Empowerment. Empowered Frags/Shooting Stars/DBoS are what accomplish the bursts and record hits.

You could fit curse on the 'less yolo' setup without aegis. But without inner light double barred, your Magicka jumps around quite a bit on every bar swap. Which is annoying.

I'm impressed as hell you can keep your Magicka up with that sustain.

I already do without having to have wonky bars. It's just curse instead of aegis on DW, and Inner light instead of Aegis on Resto.


The only way to have curse with a 58k magic damage bar is back-barring it and only running Hardened ward and heal ward. I might give that a try.

With 58K your ward is big enough to do without harness TBH, you're looking at 20K shields between the two wards.

Mine is 22K or so with all three because it's not a max Magicka build. Mine is more of an anti-HA stamina spec killer build. You can probably guess it if you tried.

The problem with dropping harness is that it's a major piece of your sustain. With max mag at 58K, it's actually profitable to cast a stack of shields when fighting any Magicka class. You gain back more than the cost.

usmcjdking

Everytime I open a QAM video I expect it to be littered with me getting 1vX'd.

And everytime I am disappoint.

Regardless, very neat build.

gibous

QAM BAM THANK YOU MA'AM

Lord_Hev

Biro123 wrote: »

Running he mage rather than thief. Is it better to have bigger base hits than having a more chance of all your burst abilities critting?

btw, how much more spell-power do you get from DW as opposed to destroy, how much does it increase your dmg when compared wit losing the 3% extra dmg from flame staff and the weaves.?

Throwing on a destro willpower staff, I would have the single-target DPS pressure of an average Sorc Emperor. However.... I would have absolutely no sustain. 800 magic regen is only sustainable on a DW set-up. You can replace one or two spell dmg glyphs with regen and run witchmothers. Sustain will take getting use too, and your damage will be a bit lower then a min-maxed BSW set-up, but you would have significantly larger shield stack.

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Biro123

The mage helps in several ways. You start with a larger pool so it's harder to run out. It makes you hit harder. And it makes your shields stronger. Plus Sorcs are about burst, not sustained DPS.

@Lord_Hev

Very interesting build, and nice to see someone actually playing the class to it's advantages. 0 points into erosion though? Especially with the heavy armor meta.
If I wasn't in love with Destro and S&B, this would look really fun to try.

Heavy armor running high resists with major ward buffs are a rock to my scissor for the most part. I can still kill with user error on their part, but for the most they, heavy armor is a hard-counter. This build excels at eliminating DPS focused light and medium armor targets with no mercy.

Rickter

very cool, passed this build on to a friend. He's not a high elf so prob wont get as high as you but better than the 30k hes sitting at now.

Lexxypwns

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Biro123

The mage helps in several ways. You start with a larger pool so it's harder to run out. It makes you hit harder. And it makes your shields stronger. Plus Sorcs are about burst, not sustained DPS.

@Lord_Hev

Very interesting build, and nice to see someone actually playing the class to it's advantages. 0 points into erosion though? Especially with the heavy armor meta.
If I wasn't in love with Destro and S&B, this would look really fun to try.

I think you misunderstand me.. I'm not talking about sustained dps.. Its when your burst consists of 3 abilities hitting together its a question around how many of those 3 abilities crit during that one burst. Surely a chance at more critting together will result in a larger burst (at least against a non-shielded target)..?

Some quick maths (if I remember how to do this).. and also I'm not sure exactly how much of a % crit increase thief does.. lets assume 12%:

Without Thief (44%crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.44 x 0.44 x 0.44 = 0.085 (7%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.44 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.44) = 0.325(32%)

With Thief (56% crit)
Chance of all three critting = 0.56 x 0.56 x 0.56 = 0.175 (18%)
Chance of 2/3 critting = (0.56 x 0.56 x 0.44) + (0.56 x 0.44 x 0.56) + (0.44 x 0.56 x 0.56) = 0.413(41%)

But then, a higher base damage may mean needing less crits to kill the target. I just find it odd to pump so many points into crit damage and not run Thief.

@Biro123
I ran max crit damage setup with Shadow way back when on Stam DK and only had 45-55% crit, thief just doesn't give enough to warrant it's usage. It's bad for PvP imo, but back then if my Leaps crit somebody it was a guaranteed one shot for upwards of 25k damage, hardest hitting leap I ever got was against Methuselah at 32k, granted his shields were down because he was repping a wall at drakelowe after Pvdooring it at 6am. Hueh hueh. I'd also assume he had zero impen or crit damage reduction in CP because he relies on his shields.

Shadow > Thief if you're looking for damage, but in Sorcerers' position I'd take Mage as well because more Magicka means more shields, more shields means more survival, less recasting of shields means more long term sustain, more inherent damage. etc.

@Lord_Hev go get Emp and break 100k now, do it you won't.

What you're leaving out about thief is its efficiency. Its much more efficient than every mundus except the shadow, giving the equivalent of 4 set bonuses. Personally, on heavy armor builds, I think thief clearly outperforms shadow. On medium/light I can't imagine why I'd run thief over shadow since you natively sit close to 50% crit chance anyway.

@minalan while he can probably do without harness with that magika pool, dropping harness is gonna *** all over his sustain against magika builds. atm, with 50k magika casting harness against a magika build allows you to cast your other two shields for free and still have a net magika gain. Imo, with a pool this size, I'd drop hardened and run a 15k harness shield with healing ward if I wasn't going to triple shield stack, no?

Aerem

@Lord_Hev Why aren't you using Grace of the Ancients?

Given your already massive mag pool it would probably give you more damage than willpower, as it's basically another inner light, or am I mistaken?

Alite

Cool build! How well do you think it would perform in no cp?

NightbladeMechanics

All this talk of thief versus shadow...

If you get reasonably close to 50% crit, shadow is best for your burst unequivocally, unless your build is a rare case which the thief would push near or over 67% crit.

QAM, have you tested your burst with shadow and slimecraw? I assume you stick with magicka for the mix of damage and defensive contributions.

Minalan

Aerem wrote: »

@Lord_Hev Why aren't you using Grace of the Ancients?

Given your already massive mag pool it would probably give you more damage than willpower, as it's basically another inner light, or am I mistaken?

Three piece willpower is better in every way, and you can't fit both.

Besides, for some reason it only scales off of your unmodifed Magicka, not the 58K he has.

Subversus

@Minalan that is simply not true. Willpower is better to a certain point, once you pass that max mag treshhold ancient becomes better. Why do you think necro ancient grace master's staff is BIS for pet sorcs and not necro willpower? Like fam it's a percentage. Not to mention spell damage, if you're going max mag spell damage is eww

NBrookus

I did the math the other day; you have to something like 60k magicka before Grace is better than Willpower if you are looking at damage output when you lose the Willpower spell damage bonus. (Of course shields are something else.)

@Minalan It scales off you base magicka pool? Or base + enchants + armor bonuses? If it does include Inner Light/Bound Aegis, that 60k figure was low.

Minalan

NBrookus wrote: »

I did the math the other day; you have to something like 60k magicka before Grace is better than Willpower if you are looking at damage output when you lose the Willpower spell damage bonus. (Of course shields are something else.)

@Minalan It scales off you base magicka pool? Or base + enchants + armor bonuses? If it does include Inner Light/Bound Aegis, that 60k figure was low.

I don't remember to be honest, all I know is that I did better with four piece spinner (I didn't have shadow dancer, but the bonuses are the same).

I tried the QAM build (four necro/four spinner/willpower) and it didn't work out due to lack of Magicka sustain, stamina sustain and no impen. I tried adding a piece of bloodspawn, then impen on small pieces, etc. What I ended up with still didn't work well.

Every HA block DK built to win a long resource grind can beat it. Encase spammers can beat it, especially when they get behind you and burst in a Destro ult. Ice staff root spammers can always tie it. Heavy armor nightblades can tie or beat it. The build had too many hard counters for my taste. So I went with something closer to Reddington's build.

Publius_Scipio

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I did the math the other day; you have to something like 60k magicka before Grace is better than Willpower if you are looking at damage output when you lose the Willpower spell damage bonus. (Of course shields are something else.)

@Minalan It scales off you base magicka pool? Or base + enchants + armor bonuses? If it does include Inner Light/Bound Aegis, that 60k figure was low.

I don't remember to be honest, all I know is that I did better with four piece spinner (I didn't have shadow dancer, but the bonuses are the same).

I tried the QAM build (four necro/four spinner/willpower) and it didn't work out due to lack of Magicka sustain, stamina sustain and no impen. I tried adding a piece of bloodspawn, then impen on small pieces, etc. What I ended up with still didn't work wells

Every HA block DK built to win a long resource grind can beat it. Encase spammers can beat it, especially when they get behind you and burst in a Destro ult. Ice staff root spammers can always tie it. Heavy armor nightblades can tie or beat it. The build had too many hard counters for my taste. So I went with something closer to Reddington's build.

Well from my own experience, Quivers Are Moriarty is always in Cyrodiil grouped together with his aussie wombat perfume wearing gf and maybe one other sometimes.


His build may hit hard as seen in his video. But just like all the points you mentioned, I'd have to say Iryalia is the tougher magical sorc for sure. Try dueling Iryalia you will see.

Magus

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I did the math the other day; you have to something like 60k magicka before Grace is better than Willpower if you are looking at damage output when you lose the Willpower spell damage bonus. (Of course shields are something else.)

@Minalan It scales off you base magicka pool? Or base + enchants + armor bonuses? If it does include Inner Light/Bound Aegis, that 60k figure was low.

I don't remember to be honest, all I know is that I did better with four piece spinner (I didn't have shadow dancer, but the bonuses are the same).

I tried the QAM build (four necro/four spinner/willpower) and it didn't work out due to lack of Magicka sustain, stamina sustain and no impen. I tried adding a piece of bloodspawn, then impen on small pieces, etc. What I ended up with still didn't work well.

Every HA block DK built to win a long resource grind can beat it. Encase spammers can beat it, especially when they get behind you and burst in a Destro ult. Ice staff root spammers can always tie it. Heavy armor nightblades can tie or beat it. The build had too many hard counters for my taste. So I went with something closer to Reddington's build.

I think most people won't be successful with this build but that's a credit to QAM's skill and his team synergy with his partner(s). He has used this build and iterations of it for a long time. The trick to fighting magsorcs like this is to put pressure on them and make them go turtle defensive and shield spam and then just look out for their burst and don't let it catch you off guard. If you go after QAM's pocket healer/tank, he will stand off to the side and nuke you one by one. If you target QAM, he will go defensive or streak away enough distance from his support, leaving them to die alone without their DPS.

Subversus

@NBrookus exactly! Shields are very important in the current meta imo, and with 55k max mag my dampen is quite big :P 55k max magicka should be enough damage as it is, the spell damage bonus is just not needed. I guess my last statement might have been a little wonky... What I meant is that I get more max magic out of ancient grace which is what the build I use is aiming for.

I for one know that I'd not use willpower over ancient on my magblade, and pet sorcs running the same build would totally not use it as they only run 1 shield, so it has to be as big as possible.

Lord_Hev

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I did the math the other day; you have to something like 60k magicka before Grace is better than Willpower if you are looking at damage output when you lose the Willpower spell damage bonus. (Of course shields are something else.)

@Minalan It scales off you base magicka pool? Or base + enchants + armor bonuses? If it does include Inner Light/Bound Aegis, that 60k figure was low.

I don't remember to be honest, all I know is that I did better with four piece spinner (I didn't have shadow dancer, but the bonuses are the same).

I tried the QAM build (four necro/four spinner/willpower) and it didn't work out due to lack of Magicka sustain, stamina sustain and no impen. I tried adding a piece of bloodspawn, then impen on small pieces, etc. What I ended up with still didn't work wells

Every HA block DK built to win a long resource grind can beat it. Encase spammers can beat it, especially when they get behind you and burst in a Destro ult. Ice staff root spammers can always tie it. Heavy armor nightblades can tie or beat it. The build had too many hard counters for my taste. So I went with something closer to Reddington's build.

Well from my own experience, Quivers Are Moriarty is always in Cyrodiil grouped together with his aussie wombat perfume wearing gf and maybe one other sometimes.


His build may hit hard as seen in his video. But just like all the points you mentioned, I'd have to say Iryalia is the tougher magical sorc for sure. Try dueling Iryalia you will see.

I guarantee in a no harness magic ruled duel, my build will annihilate the average destro resto sorc builds. Even shield stackers in open world have been bursted by me only using shooting star and a frag. Meta chasers thinking that putting on pirate skeleton with spinners/lich makes them an easy mode "nerf sorc", only to get obliterated through their shield stack by one of my combos. If any brave souls would like to put it to the test, I'll be happy to have a fair duel. I'll even allow poisons. I know how to sustain, I've been playing with 800 magic regen since dark brotherhood patch lol.


Iryalia is the one of the best destro/resto sorcs atm. No argument from me. I don't put myself in the same category though. Better to compare me to other old school DW sorcs like Reddington James, and Tamerlin. All of whom are bae .


@Irylia is bae too.