Simon Twilight Matriarch vs Breath of life

teladoy

It seems like sorcerer heal is stronger but I wonder if in veterans dungeons with all areas, special bosses attacks and etc survives enough to heal. As templar healer I find this burst heal very important.

Can anyone enumerate the pros and cons of both skills for veteran dungeons, no trials, no pvp.

Thanks!

EvilCroc

Just don't allow it to attack enemies. It will increase its survivability.

Twilight Pros:
1. Instant heal. Huge instant heal. Without ritual boon and points in blessed it heals better than BoL with them.
2. Sorcerer healing!
3. Little amount of dps from twilight attack if you will allow it to do so.
4. It can tank some trash. Sometimes it can be useful.

Twilight cons:
1. It can die and leave you without life saver. Sometimes you will have no time to recast it.
2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.
3. It makes Sorcerers feel like they are as good in healing role as Templars. Without shards and repentance.

BoL pros:
1. Cheap and solid instaheal. Bread and butter.

BoL cons:
1. None. Templar elitism, maybe.

Alpheu5

EvilCroc wrote: »

2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.

I've always tanked vICP with a Clannfear summoned and the whole team is able to use the portals without anybody dying to the blast, Clannfear included.

KochDerDamonen

The secret is that... they're both obscenely fat heals, your group isn't going to notice the difference from going 1% hp to 100% whether you overheal them by 50 or 5000 points

Peekachu99

EvilCroc wrote: »

Just don't allow it to attack enemies. It will increase its survivability.

Twilight Pros:
1. Instant heal. Huge instant heal. Without ritual boon and points in blessed it heals better than BoL with them.
2. Sorcerer healing!
3. Little amount of dps from twilight attack if you will allow it to do so.
4. It can tank some trash. Sometimes it can be useful.

Twilight cons:
1. It can die and leave you without life saver. Sometimes you will have no time to recast it.
2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.
3. It makes Sorcerers feel like they are as good in healing role as Templars. Without shards and repentance.

BoL pros:
1. Cheap and solid instaheal. Bread and butter.

BoL cons:
1. None. Templar elitism, maybe.

PRO: Twilight hits more people, too. BoL only does the caster and one more now. In four man content, Twilight is superior. In Trials, it will probably die, unless you're spamming a shield every few seconds.

Izaki

Peekachu99 wrote: »

EvilCroc wrote: »

Just don't allow it to attack enemies. It will increase its survivability.

Twilight Pros:
1. Instant heal. Huge instant heal. Without ritual boon and points in blessed it heals better than BoL with them.
2. Sorcerer healing!
3. Little amount of dps from twilight attack if you will allow it to do so.
4. It can tank some trash. Sometimes it can be useful.

Twilight cons:
1. It can die and leave you without life saver. Sometimes you will have no time to recast it.
2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.
3. It makes Sorcerers feel like they are as good in healing role as Templars. Without shards and repentance.

BoL pros:
1. Cheap and solid instaheal. Bread and butter.

BoL cons:
1. None. Templar elitism, maybe.

PRO: Twilight hits more people, too. BoL only does the caster and one more now. In four man content, Twilight is superior. In Trials, it will probably die, unless you're spamming a shield every few seconds.

The scamp never dies in trials, I don't use shields, so I don't see why the twilight would.

Voxicity

Simon

Draqone

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Simon

Don't laugh at him. I name my pets too, for example my blue dragon frog is named Freddy cuz he looks just like the singer freddie Mercury. Side by side comparison:

Magdalina

Peekachu99 wrote: »

EvilCroc wrote: »

Just don't allow it to attack enemies. It will increase its survivability.

Twilight Pros:
1. Instant heal. Huge instant heal. Without ritual boon and points in blessed it heals better than BoL with them.
2. Sorcerer healing!
3. Little amount of dps from twilight attack if you will allow it to do so.
4. It can tank some trash. Sometimes it can be useful.

Twilight cons:
1. It can die and leave you without life saver. Sometimes you will have no time to recast it.
2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.
3. It makes Sorcerers feel like they are as good in healing role as Templars. Without shards and repentance.

BoL pros:
1. Cheap and solid instaheal. Bread and butter.

BoL cons:
1. None. Templar elitism, maybe.

PRO: Twilight hits more people, too. BoL only does the caster and one more now. In four man content, Twilight is superior. In Trials, it will probably die, unless you're spamming a shield every few seconds.

BoL does 2 people, doesn't have to be the caster. As does Twilight(and she heals herself too but that doesn't really count because BoL has no danger of dying on your skillbar whereas Twilight does). Technically Twilight's heal is stronger I think, BoL's second person heal is a lot weaker than first, but BoL is always available, doesn't interfere with any mechanics, doesn't die and doesn't require a slot on both of your bars. Plus it's still plenty strong, I see my BoL critting for up to 30k a lot which is honestly more than you'll ever need. So overall, much as I'd like to heal on my sorc, BoL>Twilight. And templar stam support>>>anything...unfortunately:/
Far as Twilight's actual surviveability goes, it's not that bad actually, she very rarely dies to aoes(pretty much immune to them) but melee attacks...yeah...it also really sucks that there's no better way to track her own health than mouseover her(which is pretty hard to do in active fights) so you never know when she's about to desummon and needs heal/shield. And shield spamming isn't really an option now with 6 second shields so yeah.

Also, I didn't know Twilight's name was Simon. How'd you find that one out?

AcadianPaladin

For my magplar healer, I find BoL essential to slot yet it is probably the least used of the ten abilities I normally have slotted. Most of my healing for others comes from Rapid Regen, Extended Ritural, Healing Springs and Purify.

I also run a dual petsorc who is mostly solo / dps. The twilight is indeed a handy burst heal.

One consideration I don't see mentioned above is slotting. Assuming a sorc is using overload, a twilight requires 3/15 slots, whereas BoL requires 1/10 slots. Process that as you will. I find the flexibility of 3 bars outweighed by its complexity so am not a fan of sorc with overload.

paulsimonps

I'm totally calling my Twilight Matriarch Simon from now on

GreenhaloX

teladoy wrote: »

It seems like sorcerer heal is stronger but I wonder if in veterans dungeons with all areas, special bosses attacks and etc survives enough to heal. As templar healer I find this burst heal very important.

Can anyone enumerate the pros and cons of both skills for veteran dungeons, no trials, no pvp.

Thanks!

I take it "Simon" is a typo, and I'm sure you meant Summon. It is a fair health bump in itself with 5770, but it's not the best. Granted, I was soloing certain world bosses at level 10-20 (non-CP) with my MagSorc using those Daedric Summoning things, and also good for soloing dungeons, since overall, sorc are just so squishy when using light armor set. However, I wouldn't use a Daedric in a vet dungeon group. There are better skillset to slot. Soloing, sure..

As for the BoL. I don't get the hub bub about it. Before I created a StamPlar, many times I heard comments on why a healer is not using the BoL. I thought it was just one very good heal, but after creating a StamPlar and seeing what Bol is, actually, it is not. Maybe, I am missing something. At full leveling, BoL only heals for about 4300 for you and an ally, plus just about 2100k for an additional one more. That is not much. The cost of 4200 something Magicka is high as well. It is not an effective heal for a group. I don't have an actual healer toon, but I use Hasty Prayer (currently, no Vigor), instead of BoL, with my StamPlar, which gives more at a bit over 4400 and cost is less at about 3500 Majicka. BoL is a waste of skillpoint.

Overall, for self-heal, you just can't beat Vigor. Unfortunately, you have to venture into PvP land to get it, for those who do not PvP regularly or like to PvP (hopefully, ZOS will implement the change soon in a future patch so it can also be acquired in PvE land.. hint, hint, ZOS .) For healers in group dungeons or trial, it's better to go with Resto healing skills.

driosketch

Twilight can die, but so can your Templar. If you're using your sorc shield as well, sorc has better survivability I think. I've run a few dungeons with a sorc healing. It's fine.

Also, I've recently dropped repentance for radiant aura. I'm not the only one, there's been shifting in Templar load outs since the last update. You'll probably at least still have shards, but that's just as likely to come from a templar dps, it's not really defining the templar role as healer anymore.

Grabmoore

You' d still miss Major Mending, a cheap cleanse and buffs/debuffs like Power of the light.

Also trial healers hardly ever use bol anyways. It' mostly combat prayers and ritual these days.

AcadianPaladin

@GreenhaloX I'm not surprised your stamplar is impressed with Vigor and unimpressed with BoL. The two heals scale off stam and mag respectively. My magplar healer is built around massive heals that scale to mag with lots of cost reduction and her BoL is way strong and cheap to cast. With only about 10K stam, I'm sure she would be woefully unimpressed with Vigor. Apples and Oranges. My stamsorc runs a clannfear for tanking but would similarly be woefully unimpressed with the poor healing she could get from a twilight given her low mag pool since the twilight's healing scales to mag.

idk

Peekachu99 wrote: »

EvilCroc wrote: »

Just don't allow it to attack enemies. It will increase its survivability.

Twilight Pros:
1. Instant heal. Huge instant heal. Without ritual boon and points in blessed it heals better than BoL with them.
2. Sorcerer healing!
3. Little amount of dps from twilight attack if you will allow it to do so.
4. It can tank some trash. Sometimes it can be useful.

Twilight cons:
1. It can die and leave you without life saver. Sometimes you will have no time to recast it.
2. It counts as party member in mechanics like Lord Warden portals. Be ready to unsummon it before jumping in portal.
3. It makes Sorcerers feel like they are as good in healing role as Templars. Without shards and repentance.

BoL pros:
1. Cheap and solid instaheal. Bread and butter.

BoL cons:
1. None. Templar elitism, maybe.

PRO: Twilight hits more people, too. BoL only does the caster and one more now. In four man content, Twilight is superior. In Trials, it will probably die, unless you're spamming a shield every few seconds.

Twilight hits the same number of people. BoL is not guaranteed to hit the caster. It hits the player with the lowest health and second lowest health just as Twilight does.

stevepdodson_ESO888

Draqone wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Simon

Don't laugh at him. I name my pets too, for example my blue dragon frog is named Freddy cuz he looks just like the singer freddie Mercury. Side by side comparison:

that alone must be worth an "Awesome"...you certainly get one from me

IronCrystal

I can't really comment on someone who is a "vet dungeons healer only" as I run my trials setup in a dungeon, but generally I primarily heal with healing springs and combat prayer unless there is someone who just likes to run away from me all the time.

As far as templar specific abilities that I use, Channeled Focus is really great as it gives resistances and major mending. Luminous Shards are always great, Power of the Light for minor fracture and breach, and I slot BoL for emergencies. I also have nova on my bar but that is not used in dungeons, primarily used in very specific situations in trials, like vSO and the horn pull in vHRC.

The passives for templar are really nice like increased spell resist from Balanced Warrior, Restoring Spirit for lowering spell costs, illuminate for giving yoruself and teamates minor sorcery every time you cast Power of the Light, Prism for gaining ultimate every time you cast Power of the Light, Bigger heals with Mending, Major mending from Sacred Ground when using channeled focus, and when you ressurect someone (generally not done in trials, but dungeons its common) they come back at full health which makes a difference often.

Granted, some of these passives are going to be applied if you have a templar dps in group, but some of these are just really helpful for healers.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

teladoy

And twilight die normally a lot in dungeons or normally is always alive t

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

But do you get the point of the Post? seems that sorc can heal the same or better as a Templar.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

teladoy wrote: »

And twilight die normally a lot in dungeons or normally is always alive t

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

But do you get the point of the Post? seems that sorc can heal the same or better as a Templar.

Compare Templar passives with Sorc passives and it is a no brainer which class was designed to heal other players.

Those birds are garbage. BOL is never going to get killed like your silly birds that block camera views and pull random aggro.

Didaco

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

And twilight die normally a lot in dungeons or normally is always alive t

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

But do you get the point of the Post? seems that sorc can heal the same or better as a Templar.

Compare Templar passives with Sorc passives and it is a no brainer which class was designed to heal other players.

Those birds are garbage. BOL is never going to get killed like your silly birds that block camera views and pull random aggro.

Did a sorc kick your dog?

driosketch

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

Sometimes beggars can't be choosers.

Besides, it's the player not the class that makes the healer.

exeeter702

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

Edit: name calling is probably uncalled for.

Sorcerer healers are very strong. Outside of a resource utility that is complete overkill in 4 man dungeons. All 4 of the healing options in this game produce equal healing output. The fact that you are calling templars "real" healers speaks volumes about your utter lack of understanding in regards to how this game's class/role system is desgined.

Dk possesing an entirely SELFLESS heal along with the most accessible form.of major mending is not an accident. Changing there molten shell ultimate to a group wide bubble without the need for a synergy was not an accident. Sorceres being given the strongest burst heali n the game, and an ultimate dedicated strictly to healing a group is not an accident. Nightblades having a SELFLESS healing ultimate that does no damage, passive that increases healing output and refreshing path are not accidents. Sentinel monster set and dsa resto staff are not accidents.

Understand there is a very big difference between the intention of design and the execution of it. Templars are given exclusive class rights to stamina group regen utility not becuase zos considers them the intended exclusive healer in this game but because it wants class diversity where an even spread od classes in a group regardless of role can bring something to the table. Everything in the restoring light tree, passives included, are equally suited to reinforce a templar tank as the skill line is to reinforcing a templar healer. Which the irony here is shards isnt even found in said tree. The biggest argument for templars being the "intended" or "real" healer is based on a skill that is not even located in the "healing skill line".

You dont need that utility in 4 man vet dungeons unless you are a try hard raid healer going into a 4 man vet with a vmol hm setup. I would sooner kick the dumb ass templar that shows up for a 4 man dlc pledge throwing orbs shards and healing springs every other second over a strong non templar healer that buffs and debuffs just the same while providing solid dps to the group on their own. Just to be clear, templar healer dps while not quite as strong as a nb healer dps is still good. Its just people with your mindset about templars being the real healers enforces the notion that non templar healers have a stronger grasp on their class' healing capabilites and damage.

And in vet trials, the most potent raid heals are combat prayer and springs. All of which are not exclusive to templars. And if you are stacking 2 templars in rhe healing role, more power to you, but there is a VERY real and easy case to make in the vein of "your doing it wrong"....

timidobserver

Twilight heal is pretty strong IMO, but there are various things in the game that your pet just isn't going to survive. "Sorry my pet died" is not in acceptable excuse for a group wipe lol.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

You are right about something. The player is more important than the class. However, if the same player wanted to be a top healer in this game, they would need to be a Templar in the current meta. Perhaps the Warden class will give Templar healers a run for their money, but for now Templar healers are king!

Sorcs with sticks and birds are just fun, the are not efficient. LOOK AT SORC PASSIVES, NOTHING HELPS A TEAM EVERYTHING US JUST ABOUT KEEPING YOUR BIRD OUT FOR MORE HEALTH.

You see Sorcs have ZERO passives to help their team with healing, cleansing and buffing.

Now look at Templar passives. They help the team with EVERYTHING. (almost ; )

As a Sorc DPS from PVP, they usually throw a bird out and que up as a HEALER just to get their daily done.

Anyone serious about healing is a Templar. End of Story

driosketch wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

Sometimes beggars can't be choosers.

Besides, it's the player not the class that makes the healer.

exeeter702

To the OP.

Twilight burst heal is the strongest in the game. This comes with concessions obviously as by design. The pet must be slotted on both bars, and managed. Granted with the recent major pet buff, they are much harder to kill vut it is still a consideration.

Also ignore anyone who tries to argue that pets steal player buffs as this is not the case, its a bit complicated but in a nut shell, players are always prioritized before pets for things like spell power cure.

BoL is more readily available with less hastle but also is a weaker heal over all.

These burst heals are not usually slotted but are nice for emergencies at least on one of rhe 2 healers. We have our sorc healer keep matriarc when we do vet trials, and never have our templar healer slot bol.

Domander

Twilight heal scales up only with max magicka, spell power doesn't help it.

CP5

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

You are right about something. The player is more important than the class. However, if the same player wanted to be a top healer in this game, they would need to be a Templar in the current meta. Perhaps the Warden class will give Templar healers a run for their money, but for now Templar healers are king!

Sorcs with sticks and birds are just fun, the are not efficient. LOOK AT SORC PASSIVES, NOTHING HELPS A TEAM EVERYTHING US JUST ABOUT KEEPING YOUR BIRD OUT FOR MORE HEALTH.

You see Sorcs have ZERO passives to help their team with healing, cleansing and buffing.

Now look at Templar passives. They help the team with EVERYTHING. (almost ; )

As a Sorc DPS from PVP, they usually throw a bird out and que up as a HEALER just to get their daily done.

Anyone serious about healing is a Templar. End of Story

driosketch wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

If my healer is a sorc with a bird, I am leaving group instantly. Sorcs don't even compare to a real healer ie Templar.

Sometimes beggars can't be choosers.

Besides, it's the player not the class that makes the healer.

I have a healer for every class in the game. What I will say is that any class can heal, and heal well. It just takes some imagination to admit that more than one class can play a particular role. Each class offers unique things for the group, and when in the position of a healer can do things no other class can. Sorry if for you healer=shard spammer, perhaps put something toward stamina regen then?

Oompuh

Every class can heal, but every class cannot support like the Templar can. BoL doesnt make the Templar the go to healer in PvE, but Shards, Radiant Aura/Repent, 100% major mending, and some other things i cant think of do. Oh, Nova is cool too. BoL is just icing on the cake. "They can do all this, and heal you to full in case ish goes down"

exeeter702

Oompuh wrote: »

Every class can heal, but every class cannot support stamina resource like the Templar (non healers inc.) can. BoL doesnt make the Templar the go to healer in PvE, but Shards, Radiant Aura/Repent, 100% major mending, and some other things i cant think of do. Oh, Nova is cool too. BoL is just icing on the cake. "They can do all this, and heal you to full in case ish goes down"

Fixed that for you


Dks also have 100% major mending uptime, and can free an ability slot for both mag and stam dps thanks to igneous weapons. Magma shell group wide aoe bubble. Again the list goes on for all the classes. While true, radiant aura is probably the best source of magicka steal for aoe groups, that is very situational and the debuff itslef is available to everyone.