Explanation

Anhedonie

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_BrianWheeler , @ZOS_RichLambert

Recently you banned several accounts for "flipping of keeps in a coordinated effort". I'd like to get an explanation in order to understand several things about this action.
1. When people asked if it's an exploit you simply ignored it and provided no answers. They only thing you've said during eso live was "we noticed certain behaviours".
2. Why were only certain account suspended? I mean do you ban people the same way your RNG works in game? Randomly? How do you decide who is the worst offender and who isn't?
3. Will be people be banned because they grind experience in Skyreach? It falls under your "coordinated effort to inflate Experience Points".
4. Why send a banwave now? What took you so long? But again, I genuinely don't understand why it's an exploit and would like to hear your opinion on this. I mean "coordinated effort" can't be the real reason right? People organising duels in Cyrodiil should get banned as well in that case, but they are not. PVE grinders should be banned, but they are not.








Mentioned live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0JzJ9mbe6M&feature=youtu.be&t=6m18s

Derra

xRIVALENx

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

Everyone had the opportunity to read this and accept the terms correct?

Magdalina

PvE grinding (which they've repeatedly tried to nerf in the past but now seem to have given up on) still features killing mobs. PvP outpost flipping not only doesn't feature killing players but features coordinating with other alliance players in order to avoid fighting and simply farm ap for something that was intended to be an incentive for objective-centered fighting. Honestly, I don't think we need TOS to tell us it's simply bad sports.

Now why ZOS didn't answer when this was going on or better yet, do something to prevent this when they knew this was gonna happen...I don't know honestly. Maybe they had a revelation/change of policy since then. Maybe they actually wanted people to farm outposts creating large crowds and a lot of stress on the server(though Idk that it'd create more stress than actual fighting, plus it'd be pretty mean to ban people if that were the case), maybe their head guy was on holiday at a remote island far away from all the civilization and they couldn't decide it without him. They should've handled this better yes. But the fact that they're doing something about it at all is HUGE. Hopefully it'll set up a precedence and mean they'll be following a more active and public policy about exploiting and "shady things" from now on.

Turelus

The fact they only did suspensions is because of their lack of enforcement on things like this previous from my understanding.

It's good they finally stood up and did something, AP removal and suspensions to show they're serious.

It's bad they couldn't undo the damage of ranks and bonuses attached to them.

It's very bad it took so long with so little communication. I just posted over in the main thread for this but I will post it here as well, these were my attempts (outside the public forums threads and ESO Live Twitch chat) to get an answer.

I am happy with what ZOS has done, I fully support what ZOS has done, but now I want more from them. They really need to follow this through with better indications of what's against the ToS in Cyrodiil and answer things faster in regards to what action would be taken.

Turelus

xRIVALENx wrote: »

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

Everyone had the opportunity to read this and accept the terms correct?

However technically speaking (and why everyone kept asking and debating) this wasn't an exploit so not against the ToS it was just players organising to farm a mechanic.

That's where the key issue with this lies and why ZOS only did the temp bans it seems.

Vildebill

Were you banned OP? Sounds like that since you're arguing for something so idiotic as flipping keeps for AP is intended. Not only are you prohibiting people that play PvP legitimately and want to take over keeps, you are also gaining a lot of currency which can be used to get a other benefits.

Since when can you buy and sell motifs, buy legendary jewelery, buy monster helms and shoulders, buy other PvP sets and other stuff with experience points from places like Skyreach?

Zenzuki

Your explanation can be found in the TOS!

Play stupid games... win stupid prices!

xRIVALENx

Turelus wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

Everyone had the opportunity to read this and accept the terms correct?

However technically speaking (and why everyone kept asking and debating) this wasn't an exploit so not against the ToS it was just players organising to farm a mechanic.

That's where the key issue with this lies and why ZOS only did the temp bans it seems.

Define exploit... To me it sounds like these individuals were exploiting an in game mechanic (flipping outposts) for AP in a cross alliance coordinated effort.

LilySix

I agree with you.


I never understood people who get angry because of AP farming or glitching. Seriously, TESO does not control anything, they make rules that they are supposed to enforce. But what really happens is that small farmeurs risk absolutely nothing while the big ones are being banished. This is hypocritical. Either one banishes everyone or nobody. But there is no double standard...


Knowing that there are people who had the Droma Destroyer by the glitch, I do not care, pseudos end up being known, everyone knows how to judge people to their value. It does not change the way I play or the value of the rankings my guild and I succeed. To take the lead for that is to waste your time, we all have something else to do on the game.

Cherryblossom

Whilst your salty tear are delicious, I do agree with you OP.

ZOS never openly said this was an exploit, even though they were continually asked.

But ZOS make up the rules as they see fit, but it would be nice if they could be pro-active and consistent.

Rohamad_Ali

LilySix wrote: »

I agree with you.


I never understood people who get angry because of AP farming or glitching. Seriously, TESO does not control anything, they make rules that they are supposed to enforce. But what really happens is that small farmeurs risk absolutely nothing while the big ones are being banished. This is hypocritical. Either one banishes everyone or nobody. But there is no double standard...


Knowing that there are people who had the Droma Destroyer by the glitch, I do not care, pseudos end up being known, everyone knows how to judge people to their value. It does not change the way I play or the value of the rankings my guild and I succeed. To take the lead for that is to waste your time, we all have something else to do on the game.

I'll try to explain why PVP players get upset at illegitimate farming of AP .

Motifs , Jewelry and five piece gear sets take work and time to afford legitimately . The price is high on a lot of these things because they are not easy to accumulate . For those that dedicated their time to fighting in order to EARN these rewards , it's the number one source of income for them . Some of them miss out on PVE rewards and crafting opportunities in order to dedicate enough time to PVP to earn these high priced items .

AP farmers that organize and just let their friends take everything drive the value down . Their gains can't be matched honestly and that's just the PVP economic side . I'm not even touching how this effects competition , titles and achievements .

Believe it or not there are some Emps still around that worked their tale off for that title just to see it spit on by farmers .

Sports ! Imagine a professional football game where you watch each team hand off the ball for free to the other side so they can stroll in uncontested and score a free goal . Who would turn on that channel and watch ? No one ! It's no longer a sport !

^^^ and that's the part that upsets me when I see these questions as to why it's not ok . Did none of you ever play a sport ever in your life ? Did you never at least witness one ?! PVP is a competition just like any sport .

Turelus

Zenzuki wrote: »

Your explanation can be found in the TOS!

No, it can't. That's why this whole thing is a huge PITA and people want clearer messages from ZOS.

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

Nowhere in there does it state working with a rival faction to farm is a breach of ToS. The fact that Jessica said that this was the first time they've ever taken such action and that's why suspension goes to reinforce just how unclear ZOS was on this issue.

They do need to have better guidelines or faster communication when something like this happens.

xRIVALENx

It does however state that taking advantage of exploits is in violation of the TOS. When you do something that is not intended such as cross alliance keep flipping for AP, that is exploiting an in game mechanic.

Everyone accept your ban for what it is and learn from it. I'm sure they were only temporary anyways.

DRXHarbinger

xRIVALENx wrote: »

It does however state that taking advantage of exploits is in violation of the TOS. When you do something that is not intended such as cross alliance keep flipping for AP, that is exploiting an in game mechanic.

Everyone accept your ban for what it is and learn from it. I'm sure they were only temporary anyways.

What if they were practicing sieges? Or just plain RP'ing? what about the scrubs who didn't know better and just followed the flock? Typical ZOS response to allow something to happen for so long and then just swing the ban hammer hard at once.

JKorr

Turelus wrote: »

Zenzuki wrote: »

Your explanation can be found in the TOS!

No, it can't. That's why this whole thing is a huge PITA and people want clearer messages from ZOS.

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

Nowhere in there does it state working with a rival faction to farm is a breach of ToS. The fact that Jessica said that this was the first time they've ever taken such action and that's why suspension goes to reinforce just how unclear ZOS was on this issue.

They do need to have better guidelines or faster communication when something like this happens.

So, factions working together to flip keeps to gain AP currency doesn't fall under "taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items.", right? Or is the alliance flipping not an exploit? And AP used to buy items isn't "virtual currency"? Cheating fits in there somewhere too, imo.

People tend not to read the ToS and Code of Conduct now. If they actually had to make a line by line "Do NOT do this, it is bad." document, it wouldn't be a few pages long, it would be the Encyclopedia Britannica, and people still wouldn't read it. And they would still be looking for loopholes and exploits. The more specific the rules get, the easier it is for people who want to break them to find a way around them, or to tie people up in endless debates over the meaning of a word or phrase. On a different forum, someone was so desperate to find fault with the rules after he'd been banned, he was declaring that his Webster's dictionary had the definition he wanted to use, and that Black's Law Dictionary was a totally unreliable and unsupported source.

Zenzuki

@Turelus

There is clearly a "letter" of the law vs. the "intent" of the law, type of issue happening here.

Nobody (ZOS included) is going to be able to foreshadow every foreseeable instance in which people will find to game a system, and then write them all up in the TOS, so as to have every consievable instance covered.

No matter of this particular EXACT thing not being mentioned explicitly, there can be no doubt that this type of behavior was intended to be the "norm" for a battlefield instance in which there are three factions that hate each other and are trying to wipe each other off the face of Tamriel!

This could fall under the "other inconsistencies" part of that statement from the TOS.

People doing knew this kind of thing could lead to trouble (hence the asking about it previously), so clearly there had to be some thought that this wasn't on the up and up.

Just because some clarification didn't come up as fast as the continued actions of the players, doesn't mean they had the ok.
Ignorance of the law isn't a defense. "They'd didn't say we couldn't... so let's exploit away!!!" That crap leads to things like what just happened... mass bans!

Most of these bans were of the three day affair anyway (not permabanned), most will be back in game very soon.

These people should take this as a learning experience and if they want to do "questionable" activities, at least wait for a confirmed answer.

Rohamad_Ali

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

It does however state that taking advantage of exploits is in violation of the TOS. When you do something that is not intended such as cross alliance keep flipping for AP, that is exploiting an in game mechanic.

Everyone accept your ban for what it is and learn from it. I'm sure they were only temporary anyways.

What if they were practicing sieges? Or just plain RP'ing? what about the scrubs who didn't know better and just followed the flock? Typical ZOS response to allow something to happen for so long and then just swing the ban hammer hard at once.

There is a tutorial area for sieges in Cyrodiil . They could of role played over there away from the competition . An that really is just an insult to RolePlay guilds . There are some that PVP and they take the fights more serious then regular players . They actually RolePlay their alliance and fight enemy faction players . Not some made up excuse to why they have to keep letting a castle flip without defending . It's all just word play to try an get out of what was happening . AP farming . Most of those videos posted show people AFK and 3 people acting while flags flip . So silly . Just accept the consequences and fight for Cyrodiil like the advertisements say .

Turelus

@Zenzuki I fully agree with you, I know I am debating hard in these threads (to many peoples frustration) but I am trying to point out how this was so inconsistent and how ZOS can avoid it again.

No ToS can cover everything that's fine. However it was a very grey area as nothing was technically bugged out and player trading in Cyrodiil in one form or another has been happening since launch.

ZOS has never once stepped in with bans though and always just fixed issues via patching the problem away whilst those who abused it got to keep any benefits. Most of the people I spoke with (and I was speaking with the "leaders" in all of this) were very sure this was just another thing you could do freely until fixed.

I wasn't sure myself which is why I reached out to ZOS in the communications I posted above as I wanted to know if I should or I shouldn't however no one could give me a clear answer. Then it was only when I posted showing I was making 150k AP/hr (pre event) that Brian Wheeler took note and had to ask me where I was doing it.

Then after that nothing for the rest of the week, an offhand comment on ESO Live before I got a PM from ZOS asking to supply information, at which point I handed over all information I had, once again asked if I could do this or not (because I want free SP/Achievements) and heard nothing.

Then it all died down after the AP event and ZOS patched it away only for them to throw out a wave of bans a month later with no warning at all that something was happening.

I'm fully behind the bans and AP removal, I do think this is healthy and a showing for the games enforcement, but I also feel they need to know they should have handled this better.

The exploiting culture is everywhere in ESO not just PvP, this was the first largely visible showing of it however.

Dark_Aether

Turelus wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

Everyone had the opportunity to read this and accept the terms correct?

However technically speaking (and why everyone kept asking and debating) this wasn't an exploit so not against the ToS it was just players organising to farm a mechanic.

That's where the key issue with this lies and why ZOS only did the temp bans it seems.

A game feature has been updated and players use it in a manner in which it was not designed to work to get ahead of others. It may not be specifically in the ToS but that sounds like the definition of exploiting to me.

Zyrudin

Accounts that were suspended for this behavior have been rightly so. Full support to Zenimax on this one.
I don't usually PvP much recently but I've seen this and it is not new. Maybe this measure will reduce this type of occurrence.

Next up is also to trigger a sound warning to the grinding PvE'rs that harass other PvE'rs for killing "their" grinding boss or mobs. I do not think that suspension is necessary (except in extreme cases), but a significantly bigger cooldown for loot and xp for the same boss and mobs would discourage that type of behavior and encourage those grinders to simply play varied content and not stay for days on end in the same delve or whatever, looting and milking xp off the same bosses and mobs, as it creates a sort of player that is undesirable for the community in the game.

Rohamad_Ali

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

xRIVALENx wrote: »

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

Everyone had the opportunity to read this and accept the terms correct?

However technically speaking (and why everyone kept asking and debating) this wasn't an exploit so not against the ToS it was just players organising to farm a mechanic.

That's where the key issue with this lies and why ZOS only did the temp bans it seems.

A game feature has been updated and players use it in a manner in which it was not designed to work to get ahead of others. It may not be specifically in the ToS but that sounds like the definition of exploiting to me.

Excerpts from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom s thread Cyrodiil cheating exploits and you .

ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom
admin
Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on August 1, 2016 11:03AM
Jessica Folsom
Community Manager (English) - The Elder Scrolls Online
Facebook | Twitter | Google+ | Tumblr | Pinterest | YouTube | Support #1
July 2016
Staff Post

LilySix

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'll try to explain why PVP players get upset at illegitimate farming of AP .

Motifs , Jewelry and five piece gear sets take work and time to afford legitimately . The price is high on a lot of these things because they are not easy to accumulate . For those that dedicated their time to fighting in order to EARN these rewards , it's the number one source of income for them . Some of them miss out on PVE rewards and crafting opportunities in order to dedicate enough time to PVP to earn these high priced items .

AP farmers that organize and just let their friends take everything drive the value down . Their gains can't be matched honestly and that's just the PVP economic side . I'm not even touching how this effects competition , titles and achievements .

Believe it or not there are some Emps still around that worked their tale off for that title just to see it spit on by farmers .

Sports ! Imagine a professional football game where you watch each team hand off the ball for free to the other side so they can stroll in uncontested and score a free goal . Who would turn on that channel and watch ? No one ! It's no longer a sport !

^^^ and that's the part that upsets me when I see these questions as to why it's not ok . Did none of you ever play a sport ever in your life ? Did you never at least witness one ?! PVP is a competition just like any sport .

Reassure you I am aware of all this. I am currently working on the VDSA very seriously. But I do not compare it to a sport. The Esport does not exist on TESO, the only way to make the money is to make videos for fans and newbies in order to spread your knowledge and ask for donations.

What people are looking for on the high scores and rankings is to be famous, recognize by other players, a "social status", a notoriety (calls it whatever you want). And often it is also a personal challenge, a challenge we set ourselves.

If a guy passes in front of you on the boards and if it is clear that he cheated (and everything is known someday in teso), he has nothing to gain except to discredit and make a fool of himself. So I do not see why I would get sick for guys like that.

I have a goal to achieve and nothing will make me deviate from this objective. It does not deserve a second of my time, it's the problem of zenimax and rageous.

In my opinion this is how a top-level sportsman must think

anitajoneb17_ESO

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sports ! Imagine a professional football game where you watch each team hand off the ball for free to the other side so they can stroll in uncontested and score a free goal . Who would turn on that channel and watch ? No one ! It's no longer a sport !

^^^ and that's the part that upsets me when I see these questions as to why it's not ok . Did none of you ever play a sport ever in your life ? Did you never at least witness one ?! PVP is a competition just like any sport .

Sport ? Where does it say ESO is a sport ? ESO is a game, not a sport.
If some see it as a sport, fine, but not everyone has to.

Regardless of how anyone feels about the keep flipping issue, I think this is a blatant demonstration of the cultural difference between Europe (cooperative) and (North?) America (competitive).

BigBragg

I am glad ZOS took a stand on this issue. I very much doubt people though that this was acceptable game play. Perhaps some diluted themselves in some convoluted farming logic or just figured they would get away with some grey area bs'ery. But come on... you really telling me, that these people didn't know they were doing the wrong thing? I don't buy it for one second. So what, Zeni took their time with it. I am a fan of giving people enough rope to hang themselves.

redspecter23

There is a large grey area here and ZOS has unfortunately set a precedent with this action against cross faction coordination. It could be argued that resource flipping is not an exploit but just a mathematical AP gaining tactic. It's clearly not the intent of the game to do so, but it's up to ZOS to let us know intent, especially when asked about it while it's actively taking place. The intent is clear now after the fact and many players have been punished for it. How does this judgement factor into future "coordinated cross faction" efforts? As a DC group, if I see EP and AD fighting, can I join in? Or will it be seen as cross faction coordination by one or even both sides? There are potential tactical advantages to be had here and AP to be gained. Is it a matter of the rate of AP gain combined with coordinated cross faction alliances? If the TOS violation was in fact the cross faction coordination aspect, then players need a very clear answer from ZOS about what sort of cross faction play is ok and what's not, because it could lead to large groups of players banned out of nowhere sometime in the near future for reasons only to be fully explained after the fact.

TheStealthDude

I have no sympathy for anyone banned from this.

Working with another faction (instead of killing them) to to take advantage of AP gains on keeps/resources is clearly not the intended design of the mechanic and clearly not in the spirit of the game.

And as posted above, ZOS has already made a statement about the potential consequences of such action.

Zenzuki

Turelus wrote: »

@Zenzuki I fully agree with you, I know I am debating hard in these threads (to many peoples frustration) but I am trying to point out how this was so inconsistent and how ZOS can avoid it again.

No ToS can cover everything that's fine. However it was a very grey area as nothing was technically bugged out and player trading in Cyrodiil in one form or another has been happening since launch.

ZOS has never once stepped in with bans though and always just fixed issues via patching the problem away whilst those who abused it got to keep any benefits. Most of the people I spoke with (and I was speaking with the "leaders" in all of this) were very sure this was just another thing you could do freely until fixed.

I wasn't sure myself which is why I reached out to ZOS in the communications I posted above as I wanted to know if I should or I shouldn't however no one could give me a clear answer. Then it was only when I posted showing I was making 150k AP/hr (pre event) that Brian Wheeler took note and had to ask me where I was doing it.

Then after that nothing for the rest of the week, an offhand comment on ESO Live before I got a PM from ZOS asking to supply information, at which point I handed over all information I had, once again asked if I could do this or not (because I want free SP/Achievements) and heard nothing.

Then it all died down after the AP event and ZOS patched it away only for them to throw out a wave of bans a month later with no warning at all that something was happening.

I'm fully behind the bans and AP removal, I do think this is healthy and a showing for the games enforcement, but I also feel they need to know they should have handled this better.

The exploiting culture is everywhere in ESO not just PvP, this was the first largely visible showing of it however.

I understand where you are coming from. But as you mentioned, nothing was technically bugged in this instance, so what was there for ZOS to "fix/patch"?

This was simply an exploit of the mechanics of this mode. Clearly the mode was designed (as had been mentioned as such even from the first trailers) as an AvAvA, PVP mode where the factions are "At War". Factions/Countries/Whatnots would never nor should be expected to call a temporary truce just to farm a particular area or resource or whatever. That is simply not what was designed or intended.

And everyone going into Cyro, knew/knows that they're entering a war-zone.

You're right that ZOS should have been a bit quicker on the uptake and made very clear that this was going to be treated as an exploit and dealt with accordingly a little faster than they did. That may or may not have stopped people, but at least ZOS may have stemmed the tide so to speak.

In any event, it is clear (and a good thing to see) that going forward, ZOS is prepared to take mass action on exploiting wherever it may be found. And people should be aware that just because Zeni may not intially respond to something, doesn't mean it's free reign to keep doing questionable things!

Sometimes the "easier to get forgiven then permission" game isn't the best one in town!

Rohamad_Ali

LilySix wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'll try to explain why PVP players get upset at illegitimate farming of AP .

Motifs , Jewelry and five piece gear sets take work and time to afford legitimately . The price is high on a lot of these things because they are not easy to accumulate . For those that dedicated their time to fighting in order to EARN these rewards , it's the number one source of income for them . Some of them miss out on PVE rewards and crafting opportunities in order to dedicate enough time to PVP to earn these high priced items .

AP farmers that organize and just let their friends take everything drive the value down . Their gains can't be matched honestly and that's just the PVP economic side . I'm not even touching how this effects competition , titles and achievements .

Believe it or not there are some Emps still around that worked their tale off for that title just to see it spit on by farmers .

Sports ! Imagine a professional football game where you watch each team hand off the ball for free to the other side so they can stroll in uncontested and score a free goal . Who would turn on that channel and watch ? No one ! It's no longer a sport !

^^^ and that's the part that upsets me when I see these questions as to why it's not ok . Did none of you ever play a sport ever in your life ? Did you never at least witness one ?! PVP is a competition just like any sport .

Reassure you I am aware of all this. I am currently working on the VDSA very seriously. But I do not compare it to a sport. The Esport does not exist on TESO, the only way to make the money is to make videos for fans and newbies in order to spread your knowledge and ask for donations.

What people are looking for on the high scores and rankings is to be famous, recognize by other players, a "social status", a notoriety (calls it whatever you want). And often it is also a personal challenge, a challenge we set ourselves.

If a guy passes in front of you on the boards and if it is clear that he cheated (and everything is known someday in teso), he has nothing to gain except to discredit and make a fool of himself. So I do not see why I would get sick for guys like that.

I have a goal to achieve and nothing will make me deviate from this objective. It does not deserve a second of my time, it's the problem of zenimax and rageous.

In my opinion this is how a top-level sportsman must think

No . Some people play just for the sport itself . No money , no fame , no leader board , just the competition . Some people like ME . I don't YouTube PVP or stream or get paid . I very much care about the integrity of the game still . I do make money off rewards to balance the cost of PVP but not for big profits . I give crafting friends Akiviri pieces when I can afford to . The sport and fair competition are what I care about in PVP and I don't appreciate those that do not . If they get removed or suspended it is to maintain the sport of PVP .

Turelus

BigBragg wrote: »

I am glad ZOS took a stand on this issue. I very much doubt people though that this was acceptable game play. Perhaps some diluted themselves in some convoluted farming logic or just figured they would get away with some grey area bs'ery. But come on... you really telling me, that these people didn't know they were doing the wrong thing? I don't buy it for one second. So what, Zeni took their time with it. I am a fan of giving people enough rope to hang themselves.

Many knew it was scummy, but not wrong. The same way one can get the achievements for killing an Emperor or Grand Overlord by paying one to die to them, it's scummy, it's the easy route but not a blatant abuse of a bug.

As for ZOS waiting and giving them more rope, yeah it's a great rope they got, one could even say a five star rope. They even got to keep that rope after the suspensions are up.

White wabbit

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'll try to explain why PVP players get upset at illegitimate farming of AP .

Motifs , Jewelry and five piece gear sets take work and time to afford legitimately . The price is high on a lot of these things because they are not easy to accumulate . For those that dedicated their time to fighting in order to EARN these rewards , it's the number one source of income for them . Some of them miss out on PVE rewards and crafting opportunities in order to dedicate enough time to PVP to earn these high priced items .

AP farmers that organize and just let their friends take everything drive the value down . Their gains can't be matched honestly and that's just the PVP economic side . I'm not even touching how this effects competition , titles and achievements .

Believe it or not there are some Emps still around that worked their tale off for that title just to see it spit on by farmers .

Sports ! Imagine a professional football game where you watch each team hand off the ball for free to the other side so they can stroll in uncontested and score a free goal . Who would turn on that channel and watch ? No one ! It's no longer a sport !

^^^ and that's the part that upsets me when I see these questions as to why it's not ok . Did none of you ever play a sport ever in your life ? Did you never at least witness one ?! PVP is a competition just like any sport .

Reassure you I am aware of all this. I am currently working on the VDSA very seriously. But I do not compare it to a sport. The Esport does not exist on TESO, the only way to make the money is to make videos for fans and newbies in order to spread your knowledge and ask for donations.

What people are looking for on the high scores and rankings is to be famous, recognize by other players, a "social status", a notoriety (calls it whatever you want). And often it is also a personal challenge, a challenge we set ourselves.

If a guy passes in front of you on the boards and if it is clear that he cheated (and everything is known someday in teso), he has nothing to gain except to discredit and make a fool of himself. So I do not see why I would get sick for guys like that.

I have a goal to achieve and nothing will make me deviate from this objective. It does not deserve a second of my time, it's the problem of zenimax and rageous.

In my opinion this is how a top-level sportsman must think

No . Some people play just for the sport itself . No money , no fame , no leader board , just the competition . Some people like ME . I don't YouTube PVP or stream or get paid . I very much care about the integrity of the game still . I do make money off rewards to balance the cost of PVP but not for big profits . I give crafting friends Akiviri pieces when I can afford to . The sport and fair competition are what I care about in PVP and I don't appreciate those that do not . If they get removed or suspended it is to maintain the sport of PVP .

Well said