The Warden - a 3 skill pony

Jitterbug

So I've been using an online calculator to theorycraft some Warden builds, and seeing as the Warden has access to a wide array of cool buffs they have a lot of "mandatory" skills. The good old Togglemancer comes to mind.

Back bar: Betty (regen, srocery/brutality), Frost Cloak (ward, protection), Lotus Blossom (prophecy), Growth (intellect, endurance), Crystallized Shield (heroism) - FREE ULTI SLOT
Front bar: Bird of Prey (expedition, endurance, berserk), Living Trellis (lifesteal), Corrupting Pollen (defile), FREE SLOT, FREE SLOT - Sleet Storm ulti (8% max mag, protection)

The above example is for a magicka build - for the standard stamina build both Ultis would be the Bear.

Now, I know that lifesteal and defile aren't must haves per se, I just included them in the build to underline how much of the Warden setup could feel forced. Like, how could you possibly pass up on any of these juicy buffs in almost any kind of build? You could probably take off Trellis and put on Vigor, but that is still a "forced" spot. You could easily take off Pollen for PvE builds of course which would leave you with 3 free spots for: Cliff Racer, Shalk, Bees.

This isn't a complaint or an "omg warden OP/bad", it's simply an observation when trying to build with the tools we have available. The available class skills are just so strong it's hard to not pick them, leaving very little to "imagination".

What do you think?

Izaki

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Turelus

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Whilst I will reserve full judgement until I've seen it all or played with it I kind of feel the same right now.

To me currently the Warden doesn't feel like a fit with the other classes, it seems almost like a token buff character you need to take in every raid.
I understand they needed to make it different and stand out against the other classes, but it seems to just not fit in for me.

Izaki

Turelus wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Whilst I will reserve full judgement until I've seen it all or played with it I kind of feel the same right now.

To me currently the Warden doesn't feel like a fit with the other classes, it seems almost like a token buff character you need to take in every raid.
I understand they needed to make it different and stand out against the other classes, but it seems to just not fit in for me.

Yeah its basically the buff *** that can't do anything decent on its own. I mean there's a problem when the class only has 4 damage abilities (Dive, Scorch, Fetcher Flies and Impaling Shards) outside of ultimates. Hell, even the ultimates don't do damage. Sounds like a joke of a class to me. What's the point of giving the Warden every possible buff out there, if you only have 4 damage abilities? They seriously need to rethink things, especially that healing tree where literally every ability is a heal (unlike Templar who actually has some useful skills in that tree).

Didgerion

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Stamina version of it looks like a fail to me too. No additional effects on stamina morphs is looking bad.

It will be another class that has stamina sorcerer problems - it will fully rely on weapon skills to DPS and on class skills to buff/debuff.

Turelus

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Whilst I will reserve full judgement until I've seen it all or played with it I kind of feel the same right now.

To me currently the Warden doesn't feel like a fit with the other classes, it seems almost like a token buff character you need to take in every raid.
I understand they needed to make it different and stand out against the other classes, but it seems to just not fit in for me.

Yeah its basically the buff *** that can't do anything decent on its own. I mean there's a problem when the class only has 4 damage abilities (Dive, Scorch, Fetcher Flies and Impaling Shards) outside of ultimates. Hell, even the ultimates don't do damage. Sounds like a joke of a class to me. What's the point of giving the Warden every possible buff out there, if you only have 4 damage abilities? They seriously need to rethink things, especially that healing tree where literally every ability is a heal (unlike Templar who actually has some useful skills in that tree).

I don't want to derail Jitterbugs thread too much as I have a soft spot for the moist ones posting.

I said since their lines were first shown that having a DPS Tree, Heal Tree and Tank Tree wasn't good design in line with the rest of the game. Every other class has most of its abilities mixed up some, the Warden seems more like a WoW/SWTOR character package where everything is laid out for you already.

There might still be some fantastic stuff I've not seen, but yes so far to me the Warden has been relegated to raid buff character so everyone else can carry more DPS skills.

Jitterbug

Turelus wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Whilst I will reserve full judgement until I've seen it all or played with it I kind of feel the same right now.

To me currently the Warden doesn't feel like a fit with the other classes, it seems almost like a token buff character you need to take in every raid.
I understand they needed to make it different and stand out against the other classes, but it seems to just not fit in for me.

Yeah its basically the buff *** that can't do anything decent on its own. I mean there's a problem when the class only has 4 damage abilities (Dive, Scorch, Fetcher Flies and Impaling Shards) outside of ultimates. Hell, even the ultimates don't do damage. Sounds like a joke of a class to me. What's the point of giving the Warden every possible buff out there, if you only have 4 damage abilities? They seriously need to rethink things, especially that healing tree where literally every ability is a heal (unlike Templar who actually has some useful skills in that tree).

I don't want to derail Jitterbugs thread too much as I have a soft spot for the moist ones posting.

I said since their lines were first shown that having a DPS Tree, Heal Tree and Tank Tree wasn't good design in line with the rest of the game. Every other class has most of its abilities mixed up some, the Warden seems more like a WoW/SWTOR character package where everything is laid out for you already.

There might still be some fantastic stuff I've not seen, but yes so far to me the Warden has been relegated to raid buff character so everyone else can carry more DPS skills.

That's not a derail, to me that's the point of the thread.

Izaki

Seriously though... 4 damage abilities... Its ridiculous. One of them scales off max health, which may or may not be good. Like really 4 DAMAGE ABILITIES!!!! All other classes have way more than that and still each of them is lacking something. Well, the Warden is going to lack literally everything. Outside of ultimates: Sorcerers have 8, NBs have 9, DKs have 8, Templars have 8. I only counted the abilities that had damage as their primary effect, meaning that there's more for each class. Warden has 4. Like half of that.

Another part of bad design of this class is that fact that you don't know whether you're supposed to be melee or ranged. Impaling Shards is melee. Dive is range. Scorch is between the two. Where the hell are you supposed to be?

So yes, @Jitterbug your skill load out reflects that very well. You only have 2 flex spots for doing damage and well... that's half of your available damage skills.

Thraben

Jitterbug wrote: »

So I've been using an online calculator to theorycraft some Warden builds, and seeing as the Warden has access to a wide array of cool buffs they have a lot of "mandatory" skills. The good old Togglemancer comes to mind.

Back bar: Betty (regen, srocery/brutality), Frost Cloak (ward, protection), Lotus Blossom (prophecy), Growth (intellect, endurance), Crystallized Shield (heroism) - FREE ULTI SLOT
Front bar: Bird of Prey (expedition, endurance, berserk), Living Trellis (lifesteal), Corrupting Pollen (defile), FREE SLOT, FREE SLOT - Sleet Storm ulti (8% max mag, protection)

The above example is for a magicka build - for the standard stamina build both Ultis would be the Bear.

Now, I know that lifesteal and defile aren't must haves per se, I just included them in the build to underline how much of the Warden setup could feel forced. Like, how could you possibly pass up on any of these juicy buffs in almost any kind of build? You could probably take off Trellis and put on Vigor, but that is still a "forced" spot. You could easily take off Pollen for PvE builds of course which would leave you with 3 free spots for: Cliff Racer, Shalk, Bees.

This isn't a complaint or an "omg warden OP/bad", it's simply an observation when trying to build with the tools we have available. The available class skills are just so strong it's hard to not pick them, leaving very little to "imagination".

What do you think?

I see that you optimized it as a support class for group pvp.

And, honestly, EVERY support class in group pvp has only 2 or 3 really free skill slots. How many free slots does a supporting Magicka Templar have in PvP? 2? 3?

Use frost staff + Tremorscale und you´ll be fine.

Besides, the only tho skills I would define as mandatory in group PvP are Pollen and Frost Cloak. Sleet storm makes only sense if you are a melee support player, which in turn calls for a stamina tank hybrid approach.

paulsimonps

OK, This might not work but let me give it a try. I have Trials in mind for this one

Front bar: Dual Wield(mag)

• Screaming Cliff racer
• Deep Fissure
• Fetcher Infection
• Blue Betty
• Inner Light
• Sleet Storm (magicka morph)

Back Bar: Fire Staff

• Elemental Blockade
• Destructive Clench
• Lotus Bloom
• Rearming Trap
• Inner Light
• Elemental Rage

Front bar could be lightning staff too for the weave but I like the idea of the extra damage, will see what PTS and Live will show us. Also not sure if it won't be better to swap bars on the betty and rearming trap but I like gaining the most out of the Advanced Species passive. I mean with this build if you use the magicka bear ultimate as well you could have 10% extra damage on your front bar abilities through that passive cause all of your front bar abilities that deal damage is Animal Companion skills. What do you guys think about this? You don't have to stack buff skills like a mad man you know, I've said this in some threads that said Warden was OP with people reasoning it was cause of all of their buffs, but if you stack buffs you don't have anything to deal damage with. I did this bar set up based on how current meta for a lot of classes look and try to see what would work for the warden. I would say do this with 5p Necropotence and 5p Scathing mage on front bar, maelstrom back bar, with either Skoria or Grorthdarr. This is just a set up I thought up on the fly. Nothing of this might actually be that good but I think it could work somewhat OK. There are tons of options for the Warden.

GrumpyDuckling

One of my main concerns, from a PVP perspective, is what looks to be the lack of an immediate cc ability. Unless I've overlooked it, Warden doesn't seem to have a quick cc like other classes do:

Templar - Javelin
Dragonknight - Shard/Petrify/Chain
Nightblade - Fear
Sorcerer - Imprison/Frag (with cast time)

Jsmalls

My only concern is the amount of skills that scale from health...

That just screams problematic to me. I mean look at sun shield Templars, they have one ability that plays well with high health and we all know how many of them we see running around...

Biggest thing about the Warden seems to be their AoE major defile. That'll be CLASS DEFINING, and make them irreplaceable in PvP where we are plagued with a world of Heavy Armored Templars spamming BoL, and it'll finally make the defile CP Star viable to put points into (for Warden's).

But I can agree that a lot of abilities are gimmicky, that being said as a Mag Sorcerer I only use 4 skills, rest are buffs and shields...

Lynx7386

Every class is designed with a role in mind. Dk is the tank, templar is the healer, sorc and nb are ranged/melee dps respectively. Sure they can fill other roles, but those were the ones the developers built them on, those are the foundations.

The warden is built on a support role, an enhancer. It will be able to tank or heal or dps just like anyone else, but supporting group members via buffs / debuffs is their forte. It's different than current classes because we don't have a primary support class at the moment, and that's good, that will make the warden unique.

It doesn't matter if they've only got 4 damage abilities, as long as those damage abilities are useful. Most builds in this game, regardless of class, rely heavily on non class skills already, whether they be weapons, guilds, or pvp skill lines.

paulsimonps

Jsmalls wrote: »

My only concern is the amount of skills that scale from health...

That just screams problematic to me. I mean look at sun shield Templars, they have one ability that plays well with high health and we all know how many of them we see running around...

Biggest thing about the Warden seems to be their AoE major defile. That'll be CLASS DEFINING, and make them irreplaceable in PvP where we are plagued with a world of Heavy Armored Templars spamming BoL, and it'll finally make the defile CP Star viable to put points into (for Warden's).

But I can agree that a lot of abilities are gimmicky, that being said as a Mag Sorcerer I only use 4 skills, rest are buffs and shields...

2 Skills, 2 skills is all it is.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

One of my main concerns, from a PVP perspective, is what looks to be the lack of an immediate cc ability. Unless I've overlooked it, Warden doesn't seem to have a quick cc like other classes do:

Templar - Javelin
Dragonknight - Shard/Petrify/Chain
Nightblade - Fear
Sorcerer - Imprison/Frag (with cast time)

Impaling Shards, Frozen Device, Permafrost (ultimate morph), Deep Fissure. Doesn't seem so bad.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Every class is designed with a role in mind. Dk is the tank, templar is the healer, sorc and nb are ranged/melee dps respectively. Sure they can fill other roles, but those were the ones the developers built them on, those are the foundations.

The warden is built on a support role, an enhancer. It will be able to tank or heal or dps just like anyone else, but supporting group members via buffs / debuffs is their forte. It's different than current classes because we don't have a primary support class at the moment, and that's good, that will make the warden unique.

It doesn't matter if they've only got 4 damage abilities, as long as those damage abilities are useful. Most builds in this game, regardless of class, rely heavily on non class skills already, whether they be weapons, guilds, or pvp skill lines.

Exactly, look at how most of the magicka classes oporate, or even more so, stamina. They use a lot of weapon skills or guild skills and not all that many class skills. And yea, the Warden is a Jack of all trade master of none but its gonna be on hell of an off tank and 2nd healer for trials

SodanTok

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

One of my main concerns, from a PVP perspective, is what looks to be the lack of an immediate cc ability. Unless I've overlooked it, Warden doesn't seem to have a quick cc like other classes do:

Templar - Javelin
Dragonknight - Shard/Petrify/Chain
Nightblade - Fear
Sorcerer - Imprison/Frag (with cast time)

This. There is small hope since current info about warden skills (except animal comp) is outdated, but from what we know it has literally no "press skill to hard cc target". You will have to supplement it with weapon skill CCs, which is super sad if you try to play warden in PVP as ranged stamina build and notice you dont have ANY (not even magicka one) ranged CC.

Lynx7386

All the more reason to claim that the warden is a support character.

In a group setting, whether pvp or pve, the warden is going to free up a lot of utility skills on his allies' bars. They'll be able to rely on the warden for resolve / ward, intellect / endurance, fracture / breach, so on and so forth. That means they can, in turn, get rid of abilities that supply the same buffs and slot more damage or cc abilities. The warden, in turn, will rely on them to hard cc enemies or make up for damage loss.

It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure there are more players than not who would hate playing a pure support character, but many other mmos have proven that these types of characters work and are enjoyable for at least a reasonable percentage of players.

Jitterbug

Thraben wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

So I've been using an online calculator to theorycraft some Warden builds, and seeing as the Warden has access to a wide array of cool buffs they have a lot of "mandatory" skills. The good old Togglemancer comes to mind.

Back bar: Betty (regen, srocery/brutality), Frost Cloak (ward, protection), Lotus Blossom (prophecy), Growth (intellect, endurance), Crystallized Shield (heroism) - FREE ULTI SLOT
Front bar: Bird of Prey (expedition, endurance, berserk), Living Trellis (lifesteal), Corrupting Pollen (defile), FREE SLOT, FREE SLOT - Sleet Storm ulti (8% max mag, protection)

The above example is for a magicka build - for the standard stamina build both Ultis would be the Bear.

Now, I know that lifesteal and defile aren't must haves per se, I just included them in the build to underline how much of the Warden setup could feel forced. Like, how could you possibly pass up on any of these juicy buffs in almost any kind of build? You could probably take off Trellis and put on Vigor, but that is still a "forced" spot. You could easily take off Pollen for PvE builds of course which would leave you with 3 free spots for: Cliff Racer, Shalk, Bees.

This isn't a complaint or an "omg warden OP/bad", it's simply an observation when trying to build with the tools we have available. The available class skills are just so strong it's hard to not pick them, leaving very little to "imagination".

What do you think?

I see that you optimized it as a support class for group pvp.

And, honestly, EVERY support class in group pvp has only 2 or 3 really free skill slots. How many free slots does a supporting Magicka Templar have in PvP? 2? 3?

Use frost staff + Tremorscale und you´ll be fine.

Besides, the only tho skills I would define as mandatory in group PvP are Pollen and Frost Cloak. Sleet storm makes only sense if you are a melee support player, which in turn calls for a stamina tank hybrid approach.

You see wrong. I actually had solo play in mind. All the buffs are for me. The point is that you have to turn down some very strong buffs to slot anything else.
Sleet storm melee? Read the tool tip: 8% max magicka...

paulsimonps

Lynx7386 wrote: »

All the more reason to claim that the warden is a support character.

In a group setting, whether pvp or pve, the warden is going to free up a lot of utility skills on his allies' bars. They'll be able to rely on the warden for resolve / ward, intellect / endurance, fracture / breach, so on and so forth. That means they can, in turn, get rid of abilities that supply the same buffs and slot more damage or cc abilities. The warden, in turn, will rely on them to hard cc enemies or make up for damage loss.

It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure there are more players than not who would hate playing a pure support character, but many other mmos have proven that these types of characters work and are enjoyable for at least a reasonable percentage of players.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

All the more reason to claim that the warden is a support character.

In a group setting, whether pvp or pve, the warden is going to free up a lot of utility skills on his allies' bars. They'll be able to rely on the warden for resolve / ward, intellect / endurance, fracture / breach, so on and so forth. That means they can, in turn, get rid of abilities that supply the same buffs and slot more damage or cc abilities. The warden, in turn, will rely on them to hard cc enemies or make up for damage loss.

It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure there are more players than not who would hate playing a pure support character, but many other mmos have proven that these types of characters work and are enjoyable for at least a reasonable percentage of players.

Healers and Tanks are already support roles to the fullest and having one of the two tanks be a warden and one of the two healers be a warden gives you a lot of utility and buffs. Major and Minor Ward and Resolve to everyone for example, combine it with Gossamer and you get Major Evasion too. Lots of protective buffs, and the off tank in certain situations could use Circle of Protection too for even more. The Warden with its healing done buffs would also get a very strong Minor Lifesteal which would be a really strong HoT and the Major Defile that is also a heal would be great in PvP but also in certain PvE Dungeon boss fights with self heals. That with their minor intellect and endurance from the warden healer giving better sustain to the group as well regardless of DPS type. So combining a DK Main Tank with a Warden off tank and a Warden healer paired with a Templar healer I think will be a really good set up for Trials.

Anti_Virus

Didgerion wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Stamina version of it looks like a fail to me too. No additional effects on stamina morphs is looking bad.

It will be another class that has stamina sorcerer problems - it will fully rely on weapon skills to DPS and on class skills to buff/debuff.

DK and Sorc both suffer the same problems. Forced to use weapons and proc sets to deal decent damage.

Lynx7386

and the off tank in certain situations could use Circle of Protection too for even more.

Actually one of the morphs for frost cloak also gives minor protection, so circle of protection would be redundant. Only difference is that morph only has the base 10m range, the other frost cloak morph makes it 28m.

paulsimonps

Lynx7386 wrote: »

and the off tank in certain situations could use Circle of Protection too for even more.

Actually one of the morphs for frost cloak also gives minor protection, so circle of protection would be redundant. Only difference is that morph only has the base 10m range, the other frost cloak morph makes it 28m.

Sorry, but the minor protection is only for you so if you want to give it to the group Circle of Protection is the only way. Unless they changed it since I playtested it or since PAX. Which they might have done we will see next Friday but I doubt it, would be an OP as F skill with AoE minor protection like that.

Jitterbug

paulsimonps wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

and the off tank in certain situations could use Circle of Protection too for even more.

Actually one of the morphs for frost cloak also gives minor protection, so circle of protection would be redundant. Only difference is that morph only has the base 10m range, the other frost cloak morph makes it 28m.

Sorry, but the minor protection is only for you so if you want to give it to the group Circle of Protection is the only way. Unless they changed it since I playtested it or since PAX. Which they might have done we will see next Friday but I doubt it, would be an OP as F skill with AoE minor protection like that.

Yeah that would pretty much mean 8% reduction on everyone in cyrodiil all the time

Jitterbug

I also want to add (I'm the OP) that what I've seen so far the Warden looks amazing. Great animations and visuals and the skills sound cool and fun. I'm certain it's going to be a great questing class (and I don't mean this in a derogatory way). I'll sure be rolling a hunter archetype to mess around in the woods. It will probably also be able to do decent damage in vDungeons and both tank and heal just fine.
My problem when crafting builds is that there's is like 10 skills you pretty much need to slot and that will create carbon copies. Which is fine. It's just not fun.

Xvorg

Jitterbug wrote: »

I also want to add (I'm the OP) that what I've seen so far the Warden looks amazing. Great animations and visuals and the skills sound cool and fun. I'm certain it's going to be a great questing class (and I don't mean this in a derogatory way). I'll sure be rolling a hunter archetype to mess around in the woods. It will probably also be able to do decent damage in vDungeons and both tank and heal just fine.
My problem when crafting builds is that there's is like 10 skills you pretty much need to slot and that will create carbon copies. Which is fine. It's just not fun.

If they let him climb trees, then I'm for it...

masterbroodub17_ESO

Jitterbug wrote: »

I also want to add (I'm the OP) that what I've seen so far the Warden looks amazing. Great animations and visuals and the skills sound cool and fun. I'm certain it's going to be a great questing class (and I don't mean this in a derogatory way). I'll sure be rolling a hunter archetype to mess around in the woods. It will probably also be able to do decent damage in vDungeons and both tank and heal just fine.
My problem when crafting builds is that there's is like 10 skills you pretty much need to slot and that will create carbon copies. Which is fine. It's just not fun.

Let's be honest, there's not a lot of real flexibility in the current classes either. Generally speaking the skills available are VERY much designed to work for one purpose. It's not like you can slot more utility on a DPS build and somehow still be doing great DPS.

I'm interested in how the rest of the abilities have changed since PAX, but I have a feeling that they are the same thematically, maybe with some slight mechanic or number twists but nothing that will shake it all up.

Lynx7386

I've been bouncing back and forth ideas on how I'll end up building my warden, and I'm slowly settling on some kind of stamina damage tank build.

Resource regen and reduced cost champion points are being removed, and resource management is going to be more important than ever. It was brought up in another thread when me and another poster were bouncing ideas back and forth that the warden will be able to recover stamina (or magicka) while blocking due to the way the netch works. A bit of theory crafting and number crunching, and it turns out that if you max your block cost reduction, you can permablock on a warden while actually gaining stamina back via the bull netch and constitution. Of course, dks manage this with ults and NBs with siphoning attacks, but it will be most simple and straightforward as a warden.

I'm thinking black rose jewelry and 2 armor, a crafted set like hunding's rage in heavy with weapon and shield, and depending on the situation either selenes (solo), tremorscale (pvp), or sellistrix monster set (pve tanking) for extra damage and side effects.

A stamina tank warden will be able to freely use the physical dps bear morph for extra damage, since taunting means your bear won't often be dying. That along with the bull netch major brutality should give the warden some decent damage output when soloing or doing easier dungeons.

Of course, id probably back bar frost staff just up combine elemental blockade and ice shards for the aoe snare/root/chill/maim, and for proccing tremorscale at long range in pvp via heavy attacks. Just hope I can manage enough magicka pool to cast those spells frequently. Elemental blockade is mostly for utility rather than damage (chilling and immobilizing groups), and since sleet storm, ice shards, and arctic wind all scale on Max health they should still deal moderate damage as a tank.

So you end up with a tank build that can do respectable damage (obviously no 20 or 30k, but still decent for a tank), can permablock when needed, can aoe cc/debuff large groups of enemies, self heal, buff allies with major resolve and ward as well as potentially intellect/endurance, and can solo more effectively and quickly than most other tank setups.

I'd call that a decent class, at least for what i enjoy playing. Also helps that it fits in with my current character lineup: stam tank (warden), mag tank (nb), stam dps (sorc), mag dps (dk), and healer (templar). Each class and each role covered.

Jsmalls

@paulsimonps

Yes a heal, an attack, and a 10% increased health buff passive, add in major heroism from a spell that literally helps absorb damage and an ultimate that helps refund itself when used effectively... Looks like we'll be seeing 80k-90k Health Wardens tanking zergs... Since we are already seeing 75k sun shield builds.

Hell guess I'll finally make a PvP tank build since Zos is making it so easy.

Lynx7386

I don't think the high hp setup will be effective for wardens, at least not like it is for dk shield tanks or blazplars. Both of those are effective because of the synergy with damage shields, but the warden doesn't have anything similar (and bone shield does no damage, is self only, and is too expensive to spam).

I think they made those abilities scale on health more so that they wouldn't do crap damage when used by warden tanks (the build they're meant to be used on).

paulsimonps

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't think the high hp setup will be effective for wardens, at least not like it is for dk shield tanks or blazplars. Both of those are effective because of the synergy with damage shields, but the warden doesn't have anything similar (and bone shield does no damage, is self only, and is too expensive to spam).

I think they made those abilities scale on health more so that they wouldn't do crap damage when used by warden tanks (the build they're meant to be used on).

In PvE No, but in PvP it was really really effective. The damage morph of artic wind plus the root morph of impaling shards. I used a 70k HP warden during my battlegrounds testing and it was a lot of fun. If I had more time with it I would have tried with a bit lower HP but cold damage sets and CP into Ele Expert. Could have been a really good set up.

But the extra HP in PvE is not that helpful at all. You lose more than you gain.

masterbroodub17_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've been bouncing back and forth ideas on how I'll end up building my warden, and I'm slowly settling on some kind of stamina damage tank build.

Resource regen and reduced cost champion points are being removed, and resource management is going to be more important than ever. It was brought up in another thread when me and another poster were bouncing ideas back and forth that the warden will be able to recover stamina (or magicka) while blocking due to the way the netch works. A bit of theory crafting and number crunching, and it turns out that if you max your block cost reduction, you can permablock on a warden while actually gaining stamina back via the bull netch and constitution. Of course, dks manage this with ults and NBs with siphoning attacks, but it will be most simple and straightforward as a warden.

I'm thinking black rose jewelry and 2 armor, a crafted set like hunding's rage in heavy with weapon and shield, and depending on the situation either selenes (solo), tremorscale (pvp), or sellistrix monster set (pve tanking) for extra damage and side effects.

A stamina tank warden will be able to freely use the physical dps bear morph for extra damage, since taunting means your bear won't often be dying. That along with the bull netch major brutality should give the warden some decent damage output when soloing or doing easier dungeons.

Of course, id probably back bar frost staff just up combine elemental blockade and ice shards for the aoe snare/root/chill/maim, and for proccing tremorscale at long range in pvp via heavy attacks. Just hope I can manage enough magicka pool to cast those spells frequently. Elemental blockade is mostly for utility rather than damage (chilling and immobilizing groups), and since sleet storm, ice shards, and arctic wind all scale on Max health they should still deal moderate damage as a tank.

So you end up with a tank build that can do respectable damage (obviously no 20 or 30k, but still decent for a tank), can permablock when needed, can aoe cc/debuff large groups of enemies, self heal, buff allies with major resolve and ward as well as potentially intellect/endurance, and can solo more effectively and quickly than most other tank setups.

I'd call that a decent class, at least for what i enjoy playing. Also helps that it fits in with my current character lineup: stam tank (warden), mag tank (nb), stam dps (sorc), mag dps (dk), and healer (templar). Each class and each role covered.

Do you think they could shake up the DK tank meta?

Lynx7386

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've been bouncing back and forth ideas on how I'll end up building my warden, and I'm slowly settling on some kind of stamina damage tank build.

Resource regen and reduced cost champion points are being removed, and resource management is going to be more important than ever. It was brought up in another thread when me and another poster were bouncing ideas back and forth that the warden will be able to recover stamina (or magicka) while blocking due to the way the netch works. A bit of theory crafting and number crunching, and it turns out that if you max your block cost reduction, you can permablock on a warden while actually gaining stamina back via the bull netch and constitution. Of course, dks manage this with ults and NBs with siphoning attacks, but it will be most simple and straightforward as a warden.

I'm thinking black rose jewelry and 2 armor, a crafted set like hunding's rage in heavy with weapon and shield, and depending on the situation either selenes (solo), tremorscale (pvp), or sellistrix monster set (pve tanking) for extra damage and side effects.

A stamina tank warden will be able to freely use the physical dps bear morph for extra damage, since taunting means your bear won't often be dying. That along with the bull netch major brutality should give the warden some decent damage output when soloing or doing easier dungeons.

Of course, id probably back bar frost staff just up combine elemental blockade and ice shards for the aoe snare/root/chill/maim, and for proccing tremorscale at long range in pvp via heavy attacks. Just hope I can manage enough magicka pool to cast those spells frequently. Elemental blockade is mostly for utility rather than damage (chilling and immobilizing groups), and since sleet storm, ice shards, and arctic wind all scale on Max health they should still deal moderate damage as a tank.

So you end up with a tank build that can do respectable damage (obviously no 20 or 30k, but still decent for a tank), can permablock when needed, can aoe cc/debuff large groups of enemies, self heal, buff allies with major resolve and ward as well as potentially intellect/endurance, and can solo more effectively and quickly than most other tank setups.

I'd call that a decent class, at least for what i enjoy playing. Also helps that it fits in with my current character lineup: stam tank (warden), mag tank (nb), stam dps (sorc), mag dps (dk), and healer (templar). Each class and each role covered.

Do you think they could shake up the DK tank meta?

Probably not as endgame trials main tanks, but good off tanks at least