The Warden - a 3 skill pony

Artis

Lol how is it relevant how many damage abilities each class has? NB has 9 you say? So what? How many out of them NBs use in DPS builds? I'll tell you how many - 3. That's less than your 4 skills wardens have.

On the other hand, Wardens have a lot of utility skills to choose from for different cases, while your NB only chooses a couple strong DPS skills and won't use other DPS skills at all.

paulsimonps

Artis wrote: »

Lol how is it relevant how many damage abilities each class has? NB has 9 you say? So what? How many out of them NBs use in DPS builds? I'll tell you how many - 3. That's less than your 4 skills wardens have.

On the other hand, Wardens have a lot of utility skills to choose from for different cases, while your NB only chooses a couple strong DPS skills and won't use other DPS skills at all.

Agreed, looking at current Meta DPS set ups for both Magicka and stamina of all classes and you don't really use that many class damage abilities 3-4 tops from what I can recall.

Something I love too though is that I have now seen a thread claiming Wardens are OP cause of all of their utility skills and another one claiming they are really bad cause of too many utility skills and to few damage skills. So funny how that goes.

Jitterbug

paulsimonps wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Lol how is it relevant how many damage abilities each class has? NB has 9 you say? So what? How many out of them NBs use in DPS builds? I'll tell you how many - 3. That's less than your 4 skills wardens have.

On the other hand, Wardens have a lot of utility skills to choose from for different cases, while your NB only chooses a couple strong DPS skills and won't use other DPS skills at all.

Agreed, looking at current Meta DPS set ups for both Magicka and stamina of all classes and you don't really use that many class damage abilities 3-4 tops from what I can recall.

Something I love too though is that I have now seen a thread claiming Wardens are OP cause of all of their utility skills and another one claiming they are really bad cause of too many utility skills and to few damage skills. So funny how that goes.

Not this one though right? I didn't mean to claim them either way.

FloppyTouch

I have more damage abilities on my mdk but I use only 4 I don't see an issue

Jitterbug

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I have more damage abilities on my mdk but I use only 4 I don't see an issue

Just to get it back on track I never said they had too few damage skills...

dodgehopper_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

I'd like to point out that sorcerer already does what you are speaking of with regard of increased damage per ability slotted.

STEVIL

The way i see it, based on the little we have so far, knowing playtest is coming blah blah blah...

the class itself is very diverse - each tree focused on a role with what seems a higher than normal variety of buffs.
The class is going to be one of those which focuses more on weapon skill lines for damage output and class skills for making damage better and such.

I see right now a class that can build a whole lot of different playstyles and roles and be good at them all but maybe not be best at any.

i am intrigued but honestly not excited by the warden so far.

masterbroodub17_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

I see right now a class that can build a whole lot of different playstyles and roles and be good at them all but maybe not be best at any.

i am intrigued but honestly not excited by the warden so far.

This is the problem with designing the content around the meta rather than balancing the game. If it aint meta, who the eff cares?

Lynx7386

Here's a thought:

The dive/cliff racer is slightly delayed in its damage from the time of cast.

Using frost staff as a back bar weapon for a stamina-heavy tank warden, in pvp with the tremorscale set:
frost staff heavy -> cast dive
The heavy and dive should hit at about the same time on a distant target. The frost staff heavy attack is a taunt, which will proc tremorscale for extra burst damage and a snare.

Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like it could be a really hefty bit of ranged burst damage for a tank warden in pvp/battlegrounds, and you're snaring the target by 70% for 8 seconds on top of it, giving you time to get in another heavy and dive, and possibly finishing with a bear execute.

ADarklore

From my perspective, the problem is they designed the Warden to be a 'group-oriented' class... which means that it may well not have many good 'solo-oriented' builds. When you compare Warden to Templar, I see Templar far outperforming Warden in most situations... so far from what I've seen and heard about it.

Lynx7386

ADarklore wrote: »

From my perspective, the problem is they designed the Warden to be a 'group-oriented' class... which means that it may well not have many good 'solo-oriented' builds. When you compare Warden to Templar, I see Templar far outperforming Warden in most situations... so far from what I've seen and heard about it.

I definitely think the warden will be relying heavily on that bear when soloing, regardless of build.

Jitterbug

Soloing what exactly?
I think it will be an overland beast.

Phatmattfu

Yea, they look terrible. You guys shouldn't play one at all.

dodgehopper_ESO

There does seem to be a lot of similarity between Warden and Templar actually, but some key differences. I'm really holding judgment on the class until I get my hands on it. Sorcerer is a solid class that relies heavily on outside skills to function, so it doesn't entirely bother me if Warden operates similarly. Additionally, the actual theme and style of Warden is fantastic.

I'm very hopeful we get Spellcrafting though going forward, and possibly 'Weapon Mastery' for warrior types. I'd rather them expand on what we have going forward than making new classes after Warden. I know this might frustrate some, but for all those people who cry Necromancer at least once a month, wouldn't a robust skill line for that purpose do the trick? It could also allow you to take that skill line on the other 5 classes allowing you to develop your own theme. I like that better.

STEVIL

Jitterbug wrote: »

Soloing what exactly?
I think it will be an overland beast.

I agree. I mostly solo and the built in variety is what intrigues me. I don't see it as a leaderboards hunter but then again its versatility might serve it well enough in vma.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

This is what i thought about the stamina morphs when i watched eso live. Im hoping it's just still in the works because just making the morph stamina but doing nothing to the skills so they standout against the other morph is horrendous and makes there absolutely no reason to play a stamina based warden.

DragonBound

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

Well this is why the warden is in testing.

dodgehopper_ESO

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that the Warden is shaping up to be a pretty bad class with very few damage abilities compared to other classes. And terrible stamina morphs that don't even add an extra effect to the skill. So yeah... Some passives are really badly thought out as in absolutely OP (increases damage done per ability slotted?! OP much?) while others are just trash. So yeah, my personal opinion on the Warden is that its a fail.

This is what i thought about the stamina morphs when i watched eso live. Im hoping it's just still in the works because just making the morph stamina but doing nothing to the skills so they standout against the other morph is horrendous and makes there absolutely no reason to play a stamina based warden.

Doesn't that describe Templar?

NeillMcAttack

Uh, are we suggesting we have seen the morphs!! Speaking of which, could one please get a link to those morphs!??

Izaki

Artis wrote: »

Lol how is it relevant how many damage abilities each class has? NB has 9 you say? So what? How many out of them NBs use in DPS builds? I'll tell you how many - 3. That's less than your 4 skills wardens have.

On the other hand, Wardens have a lot of utility skills to choose from for different cases, while your NB only chooses a couple strong DPS skills and won't use other DPS skills at all.

Well just like Warden's have lots of utility to choose from, they don't have the options to choose their DPS skills like other classes cause they only have 4! A DK has a lot more flexibility in what to use, most of their skills are great.

3 you say? Last time I counted: Merciless Resolve, Crippling Grasp, Impale, Twisting Path is 4 skills. In vMA, add in Funnel Health. Also Sap Essence for AoE situations. So you see, Nightblades still have a lot more options than the Warden.

Izaki

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's a thought:

The dive/cliff racer is slightly delayed in its damage from the time of cast.

Using frost staff as a back bar weapon for a stamina-heavy tank warden, in pvp with the tremorscale set:
frost staff heavy -> cast dive
The heavy and dive should hit at about the same time on a distant target. The frost staff heavy attack is a taunt, which will proc tremorscale for extra burst damage and a snare.

Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like it could be a really hefty bit of ranged burst damage for a tank warden in pvp/battlegrounds, and you're snaring the target by 70% for 8 seconds on top of it, giving you time to get in another heavy and dive, and possibly finishing with a bear execute.

Well the burst is fine in PvP, much like the Sorc burst: Fletcher Flies > Scorch > Cliff Racer. However, where the hell do you have to stand to get the most damage? Do you have to be more than 15m away? Wait... If I do that then Scorch won't even hit anything... Do I stand in melee range? but then I don't benefit from the 15% extra damage...

See what I'm talking about here? Its not very well thought out all of this. Like, either make the class melee or make it ranged. Otherwise there isn't a situation where you could benefit fully from the skills. Really really weird, and not very good design IMO. So lets hope it gets called out on the Beta and that it gets changed.

SodanTok

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's a thought:

The dive/cliff racer is slightly delayed in its damage from the time of cast.

Using frost staff as a back bar weapon for a stamina-heavy tank warden, in pvp with the tremorscale set:
frost staff heavy -> cast dive
The heavy and dive should hit at about the same time on a distant target. The frost staff heavy attack is a taunt, which will proc tremorscale for extra burst damage and a snare.

Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like it could be a really hefty bit of ranged burst damage for a tank warden in pvp/battlegrounds, and you're snaring the target by 70% for 8 seconds on top of it, giving you time to get in another heavy and dive, and possibly finishing with a bear execute.

Well the burst is fine in PvP, much like the Sorc burst: Fletcher Flies > Scorch > Cliff Racer. However, where the hell do you have to stand to get the most damage? Do you have to be more than 15m away? Wait... If I do that then Scorch won't even hit anything... Do I stand in melee range? but then I don't benefit from the 15% extra damage...

See what I'm talking about here? Its not very well thought out all of this. Like, either make the class melee or make it ranged. Otherwise there isn't a situation where you could benefit fully from the skills. Really really weird, and not very good design IMO. So lets hope it gets called out on the Beta and that it gets changed.

See, stam warden has it easier. He has no fletcher and no bonus damage on cliff racer

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Uh, are we suggesting we have seen the morphs!! Speaking of which, could one please get a link to those morphs!??

There is video on their YT i think and also thread in general discussion.
Link