Don't understand why sorcs still use fiery rage over shock...

Danksta

I don't know which is optimal for sorcs but I didn't see anyone mention the fact that implosion can proc off the lightning version. It may not make much of a difference if you're keeping up liquid lightning and mage's wrath through execute though.

Kodrac

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

One reason is the horrible standing animation when wielding a lightning staff..

Umm, it's the same animation with a fire staff...

Actually it's not. I use lightning on my front bar and fire on back. Your character holds the lightning staff at slightly a higher angle, making the staff head almost point upwards instead of down like the fire staff does.

I do too on my mag NB and I've never noticed this. I'll have to look more closely tonight.

Marktoneth3

I love shock

I just hold right click for AOE attack

JinMori

dpencil wrote: »

Edited to correct previous error:

Say tooltip is 10k each tick:
Fire tooltip = 70k+7000 (10%) = 77k
Lightning tooltip = 90k
The lightning staff aoe buff could apply to either type, assuming it is being used on the front bar (+7200 on lightning and +6160 on fire)
High Elf gets 5% boost to both (+3850 vs +4500, so also doesn't need to be factored in. Dark Elf would be 5% stronger with fire (+6160 vs +1800)
Sorcerer passive 5% for lightning (+4500)
Engulfing flame 10% for fire (+7700)

Fire: 77000 + 6160(8% lit staff) + 3850(5% high elf) + 7700(10% engulfing) = 94,710

Lightning: 90000 + 7200(8% lit staff) + 4500 (5% high elf) + 4500 (5% sorc passive) = 106,200

So Lightning will perform better in almost every case. Even on a Dark Elf lightning would be 6300 stronger.

There are other trade-offs to consider, though, like whether you front bar or back bar the ulti, and how that effects which Wall of Elements you have.

Keep in mind, you get the 8 % only if you have a lightning staff on your current bar. And usually you are running a fire staff on your front bar.

Vercingetorix

Every proper mag Sorc should be an Altmer and should be using Thunderous Rage. The associated bonuses combine to outdamage a sorc's Fiery Rage:
- 5% Shock Damage from class passive
- 4% Shock Damage from race passive
- 8% Damage from staff passive
- 10% Damage from Exploiter passive
- Extra 2 seconds of duration to Ultimate

If you want to use fire, roll a mag DK, a class specifically built for synergistic fire passives and fire-based damage. Even then, a mag DK uses Standard over Rage anyway....

idk

templesus wrote: »

The math is simple, fiery rage does 10% more damage while shock lasts 2 seconds longer. However sorcs passives increase shock damage by 5%, and the new destruction staff passive increases aoe damage by 8% equaling out to a total of 13% more damage for 8 seconds vs 10% more damage for 6 seconds...enlighten me

Two reasons. Dunmer is the first which changes the math.

Second, it the destro passives boosting damage for single target and AoE doesn't care what staff was used to cast the ultimate. It looks at what staff is active for each tick of the ultimate to determin the bonus.

DeadlyPhoenix

Kodrac wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

One reason is the horrible standing animation when wielding a lightning staff..

Umm, it's the same animation with a fire staff...

Actually it's not. I use lightning on my front bar and fire on back. Your character holds the lightning staff at slightly a higher angle, making the staff head almost point upwards instead of down like the fire staff does.

I do too on my mag NB and I've never noticed this. I'll have to look more closely tonight.

Unless they've changed it very recently it was this way. I havent had much time to play lately so anything is possible with ZOS :P I just am always staring at my character as I like to mess around with different looks and costumes, it's noticeable once you notice and I wish I hadn't haha! The standing idle animation for the fire is better

Enslaved

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Because my Sorcerer is also a Dunmer, so the bonus to fire damage lets me cleanse my enemies with some fire.

This

DHale wrote: »

Because extra damage to vampires and most of the pvp players are vamps.

Also, this.

DeadlyPhoenix

Also just to clarify I am personally one who uses the lighting form of the ultimate because of the extra 2 secs and the fact that it works better for my character. Since sorcs are mostly lightning and my characters name is Storm, riding a storm atro mount, it just suits his character for basic gameplay needs.

But it is also situational. Certain fights in vma I prefer to use the fire version, but for the most part I stick with lightning.

Min/Max numbers aside though, either is good for most gameplay. Unless you're trying for leaderboards I'm sure.

EldritchPenguin

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Every proper mag Sorc should be an Altmer and should be using Thunderous Rage. The associated bonuses combine to outdamage a sorc's Fiery Rage:
- 5% Shock Damage from class passive
- 4% Shock Damage from race passive
- 8% Damage from staff passive
- 10% Damage from Exploiter passive
- Extra 2 seconds of duration to Ultimate

If you want to use fire, roll a mag DK, a class specifically built for synergistic fire passives and fire-based damage. Even then, a mag DK uses Standard over Rage anyway....

Exploiter isn't exclusive to Thunderous Rage.

luen79rwb17_ESO

So many confusing answers... I guess that's a good sign of build diversity and viability

clocksstoppe

People are just stuck with the "lmao fire = more damage" mentality. On a sorc you should never use fire staff and burning spellweave, those things are overhyped.

dpencil

Lightning is better in: All overland content, vMA, 4 man dungeons most of the time - especially pugging

Fire is better in: PvP (specifically against vampires), Trials

In either case, the difference won't be extreme, so other factors like which bar the ult is on and what kind of Blockade you want to run should help with decision making.

EldritchPenguin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

People are just stuck with the "lmao fire = more damage" mentality. On a sorc you should never use fire staff and burning spellweave, those things are overhyped.

Why not? An 8% boost to Force Pulse, Haunting Curse, and Frags is nothing to sneeze at. Nor is 20% more damage on Blockade against Burning targets. Not to mention that you get a lot more out of Ilambris if you have a healthy mix of Fire and Lightning damage.

Also, BSW is BiS if you can get ~60% uptime on it, which is trivial to obtain with Blockade, Force Pulse, attack weaves, and Ilambris.

clocksstoppe

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

People are just stuck with the "lmao fire = more damage" mentality. On a sorc you should never use fire staff and burning spellweave, those things are overhyped.

Why not? An 8% boost to Force Pulse, Haunting Curse, and Frags is nothing to sneeze at. Nor is 20% more damage on Blockade against Burning targets. Not to mention that you get a lot more out of Ilambris if you have a healthy mix of Fire and Lightning damage.

Also, BSW is BiS if you can get ~60% uptime on it, which is trivial to obtain with Blockade, Force Pulse, attack weaves, and Ilambris.

8% on liquid, blockade, familiar pulse, boundless storm, and ultimate is nothing to sneeze at either. Your sorc passives boosts lightning, not fire. And grothdarr is better than illambris. Grothdarr is also boosted by lightning passive.

Dantaria

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And grothdarr is better than illambris. Grothdarr is also boosted by lightning passive.

We are talking about sorcs, right?

So. You want to take the class, which is considered so convenient exactly because of range and... to not go range?

Ooookay. Then yes. Go Grothdarr.

But personally I would rather stay away from boss. With my Ilambris

clocksstoppe

Dantaria wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And grothdarr is better than illambris. Grothdarr is also boosted by lightning passive.

We are talking about sorcs, right?

So. You want to take the class, which is considered so convenient exactly because of range and... to not go range?

Ooookay. Then yes. Go Grothdarr.

But personally I would rather stay away from boss. With my Ilambris

There is nothing convenient about that imo. I can't think of a single fight, trial or regular dungeon, in this game, where it actually matters if you stay in melee range or far away.

Dantaria

clocksstoppe wrote: »

There is nothing convenient about that imo. I can't think of a single fight, trial or regular dungeon, in this game, where it actually matters if you stay in melee range or far away.

o_____O

Like... Any fight in which boss casts circular aoe? Or simply surrounds itself with damage?

Harvester in Weyrest Sewers II? Where 2 players also must use Altars to free teammate in her "Ghost state"? Sure, range is not easier.

Mad Architect in Vaults of Madness? Who has 2 lethat attacks and in melee range you must constantly pay attention to whether it's shield or ghosts? And in range it is literally a matter of one roll-dodge.

Rakkhats' stomps? The lord of "Go range now" Engine Guardian? Lord, I-always-forget-his-name, last boss in ICP? Range makes avoiding accidental use of portals ten times easier.

Range = better survivability and much more room for mistakes.

derpmander

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And grothdarr is better than illambris. Grothdarr is also boosted by lightning passive.

We are talking about sorcs, right?

So. You want to take the class, which is considered so convenient exactly because of range and... to not go range?

Ooookay. Then yes. Go Grothdarr.

But personally I would rather stay away from boss. With my Ilambris

There is nothing convenient about that imo. I can't think of a single fight, trial or regular dungeon, in this game, where it actually matters if you stay in melee range or far away.

Vet AA Hardmode. Vet MoL. It matters.

AtraisMachina

Because I use a lightning front bar for exploiter. And I need an Inferno on the back to maintain bsw. And not having meteor on my front bar lowers my dps tests.

The_Conquerer

i only use fiery rage on my sorc b/c i dont have a sharp maelstrom or moondancer lightning staff but i do have sharp maelstrom and moondancer inferno staves so im using those until i get the lightning staff i need.

code65536

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I can't think of a single fight, trial or regular dungeon, in this game, where it actually matters if you stay in melee range or far away.

Then you've never stepped foot in vMoL. When they designed Maw, they deliberately set out to force people away from stack-and-burn. You are mechanically required to have a certain number of ranged DPS. And I expect that future boss designs will follow a similar philosophy.

vMoL first boss (limited melee positions to avoid curse spreading and shield AoE damage)
vMoL final boss (some people have to kite out the meteors, and being able to DPS while doing that is a plus)
vMoL final boss HM (cursed players will damage other nearby players)

IronCrystal

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

The math is simple, fiery rage does 10% more damage while shock lasts 2 seconds longer. However sorcs passives increase shock damage by 5%, and the new destruction staff passive increases aoe damage by 8% equaling out to a total of 13% more damage for 8 seconds vs 10% more damage for 6 seconds...enlighten me

You don't stay on your inferno bar after you cast fiery rage. You cast it on inferno bar then swap to shock staff to get the 10% dmg boost from fire type buff and the 8% buff from lightning staff.

sad to say it doesn't carry over on bar-swap, so you do no get that extra 8% from it when on your lightning staff

It definitely does carry over. The game doesn't care what bar you casted it on. Literally the only thing that carries over is the penetration you had when you casted it.

There are reasons you have all your AOEs on the inferno bar like inferno blockade and ultimate and your single target on your front bar with lightning staff.

Olupajmibanan

Aoe ground targets, such as Elemental rage does recalculate their damage dynamicaly. So they are benefiting from the current active bar.

Sorcerers standardly use Inferno staff on back bar and Lightning staff on front, including myself. So the Ancient Knowledge passive will buff even Fiery Rage by 8% if you cast it and then go on front bar. On top of that Engulfing Flames debuff (if a magDK is present) gives to Fiery Rage another 10% increase.

And what's more important, you want Lightning Moondancer on front and Maelstrom Inferno on back (Glyph of weapon damage makes the difference) and the only way of having Storm Rage is to switch it to main bar and Shooting Star to secondary bar, loosing the 2% magicka bonus on front bar. Don't know about other opinions, but for me that's a huge loss not worthy of little extra damage from Storm Rage.