How to reward Tanks for doing dungeons...

Ranger74z

First, I should say I love tanking. With my templar, it's relatively easy and a lot of fun.

But basically if everyone's complaining that there aren't enough tanks do what I did.

1) Create a DPS, play that for a while
2) Try dungeons, wait a half hour to get into one.
3) Create tank, screw that half hour.
4) Learn how to tank(it's easy just taunt like all hell).
5) Profit

I can admit it'd be nice to have some more rewards for tanking, but that wouldn't change anything for me.

Honestly, it's the same situation with World of Warcraft.

Cheers!

P.S. And don't be surprised if you can't get instant queue during the day sometimes, people do have jobs and school and whatnot. Anytime at night though, wow, look at that queue pop!

Cpt_Teemo

Not just tanks, but every class cause that's how WoW does it.

Tan9oSuccka

Flameheart wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Tanking is easy. People just dont like to lead. You dont have to respec attribute points or cp just have health enchants and sturdy on all gear as long as you have point into stamina

Active tanking is not hard, but more challenging than DPS.

DPS is easy mode, that's why nobody runs a tank.

Most glass cannon DPS= Attack the boss, attack the boss, attack the boss, yell at healer, attack the boss, yell at tank, attack the boss.

Random DPS: Look at my 46K Magicka Bro!

Me: Look at his dead, 12K health corpse on the ground. *shrugs*

Your post exactly shows the issue with PUGs nowadays, because as somebody who plays all 3 roles I can tell you that doing the dps thing right is not that easy as most people think. This attitude seems to be the main reason why you meet so many awful players calling themselves DD in PUGs.

Flameheart wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Tanking is easy. People just dont like to lead. You dont have to respec attribute points or cp just have health enchants and sturdy on all gear as long as you have point into stamina

Active tanking is not hard, but more challenging than DPS.

DPS is easy mode, that's why nobody runs a tank.

Most glass cannon DPS= Attack the boss, attack the boss, attack the boss, yell at healer, attack the boss, yell at tank, attack the boss.

Random DPS: Look at my 46K Magicka Bro!

Me: Look at his dead, 12K health corpse on the ground. *shrugs*

Your post exactly shows the issue with PUGs nowadays, because as somebody who plays all 3 roles I can tell you that doing the dps thing right is not that easy as most people think. This attitude seems to be the main reason why you meet so many awful players calling themselves DD in PUGs.

I took three characters to VR16. Damage Dealer (NB), Tank (DK) and Healer (Templar). The grind was real, you get to learn the ins and outs of your class, build and rotation.

I've pugged with random scrubs, with every build imaginable in the last 2 years. Damage is not rocket science. Get good gear, and work on your rotation. For me, its auto pilot.

The hard part about tanking and healing is being conscious of not only yourself....BUT OTHERS (Foreign concept for 95% of players)

Rickter

BS Tavas DG?

really?

bro get you 5 PA - its the SPC of tanks. then grab some ebon. keep the blood spawn.

doggie

The reason I posted some item suggestions in the OP is pretty obvious, ZOS keep adding sets that noone uses. Why even buy "Shadows of the hist" DLC if you're a DK Tank? Many of the sets in use today have been in the game for long. DG and Ebon has been in the game since launch. I farmed VR 5 Ebon on my first tank back in 2014.

Some players suggest I just farm random sets I'll never use to fill my bank/inventory, but why? When are anyone going to use Draugr Hulk set for example?

timidobserver

I know you said dungeons but...

Step 1: Remove all versions of Eternal Yokeda and replace them with something actually useful.

Flameheart

Rickter wrote: »

BS Tavas DG?

really?

bro get you 5 PA - its the SPC of tanks. then grab some ebon. keep the blood spawn.

PA is really cool I admit, but it needs some farming.

Tasear

Issue is simple<3 ESO needs a toturial for dungeons. Why do players have to tanks to slot a taunt. This is a matter the robot slaves can do. Put the NPC's to work.

max_only

I only play my tank or my healer.

I don't do dungeons with others because of the ridiculous expectation that you have to know every single dungeon by heart. People act like they were born playing the game, like there was no first time for them in dungeons.

So I've been soloing dungeons on my Templar and my saptank and so far so good.

I want to queue more with my tank but other people need to drop the attitude imo.

It's the famous saying--


Hell is other people.


I'm enjoying this discussion though, always want to know more about tanking or healing.

Lavum

Flameheart wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

tanks' reward is zero queue time with group finder.

This.

Btw, it's not a major issue at all to play a magicka build char as a really good tank in 4-man-content by just doing a gear and skill bar swap in Dressing Room, without ever changing any CP distribution, morphs, mundus or anything else. I play all all my 4 magicka build chars usually as DD, but I am able to play them as tank with just clicking a Dressing Room hot key....and those are solid tank support and ultireg builds (Ebon + Tavas + Heroic Slash + Evade buff + War Horn + DK chains or Swarm Mother or Bloodspawn, just over 30k health, 28k+ magicka, 17k+ Stamina, ~1400 magicka reg with Tristatfood, 28k+ resistances selfbuffed -> getting to the cap at ~ 33500 will add less then 5% damage mitigation -> not worth it). You don't even have to have the tank gear in legendary like me, purple is totally enough for 4-men-stuff.

You might need to change additional things when going for vet trials as a tank, but not for 4-men-stuff and normal trials.

PS: You can reward your tank by

- doing good dps, so that my frequently cast War Horns and the standard tank ultireg build actually make sense and show some effect. You might get the hint, when your tank quits using War Horn, but uses damage ultimates instead...
- tanks appreciate it, when people know mechanics and do not die that often. It is already very usefull if you don't stand on 28m as a DD or healer during boss encounters where bosses have annoying and scripted mechanics to jump at and/or attack far away standing players, so that, the whole group has to move or the boss moves out of ground dots and you will lose dps. Btw, I am a fan of Stormreeve Neidir in Tempest Islands. You cannot imagine how much I enjoy this Nemesis of all ranged builds when she does her Chuck Norris round house kick with one hit guarantee on those stupid bow/bow build players on hm.
- tanks are pleased, when they realize, that using Swarm Mother or chains as a tank to serve trash mobs on the silver platter, actually benefits the group, because the group is able to deal awesome AoE dps (there are people out there who haven't slotted a single AoE damage skill and think doing 20k AoE dps on groups of 6+ mobs is a value worth to post in group chat, while I do almost the same as a tank with a real tank build just with synergies and Sap Essence...).
- you can further reward your tank by using skills that give useful synergies (I use them all, tanks are synergy addicts, some synergies like liquid lightning do really good damage and with undaunted passives I get the most important out of them -> ressources) and support him by thowing spears and bubbles as a templar healer and at least bubbles as a non-templar-healer.

I am doing instances in PUGs since weeks to get the slayer achievements done for my main char and you can't imagine how less groups out there fullfill the just mentioned basic standards.

Spot on F'in on.
As a tank, I don't expect 45k DPS from pug DPS. I do expect ppl to prepare and know basic mechanics and rotations.

SaRuZ

What's BiS Trial gear for tank? I nabbed Ebon jewelry in two vCoH1 runs a few days ago. With the dbl xp event I made an Orc DK but haven't leveled him.

Simple question: BiS end game support tank that gives highest buffs to group gear would be?

Stormshaper

"How to reward tanks..."

By saying tank you?

Arthmoor

doggie wrote: »

If we look at the gear incentives. Many starting CP 160 Tanks wear Blood Spawn, Tava and Dragonguard. In order to wear that setup you have to wear Dragonguard jewlery and they only come in Healthy trait.(Exept that one blue ring noone seems to wear). If Robust purple jewlery would drom from the daily premium bag(maybe as BOP), that could get some beginning tanks up and running.

I feel like there's information missing here. What's this daily premium bag? I keep hearing about something that sounds like this in relation to running dungeons and/or pledges but haven't ever run into it myself.

doggie

SaRuZ wrote: »

What's BiS Trial gear for tank? I nabbed Ebon jewelry in two vCoH1 runs a few days ago. With the dbl xp event I made an Orc DK but haven't leveled him.

Simple question: BiS end game support tank that gives highest buffs to group gear would be?

To begin with Jewlery(+2armor) works fine, like if you want Ebon on harder Vet Dungeon bosses. Like Tempest Island last boss to give DPS some HP if they struggle.

In Trials you want ebon on Armor(not shoulder/helm obv), since you want Alkosh on too, and that's a medium armor so you want it on weapons/jewlery.

Arthmoor wrote: »

I feel like there's information missing here. What's this daily premium bag? I keep hearing about something that sounds like this in relation to running dungeons and/or pledges but haven't ever run into it myself.

It's the bag you get once a day for running a random dungeon through the dungeon finder. You can get purple items like Agility set for example in there. Some sell for 5-10k on trader, but most are worthless or sell for 1k.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO

Reward bags for needed roles at the time of queue have worked extremely well in other MMOs. I would gladly welcome them into ESO and would most likely start running my tank and healer through the LFG system.

As it stands now, I have to run my dps since most runs I get into (if the broken system even works) have terrible dps and need all the help they can get.

SwampmanKerns

Referring to OP:
Adding incentives for all roles would improve queue times for everyone. Even if it is just making the drop system more intelligent and role specific. I always get annoyed when all the gear I get for killing every mob and boss/mini-boss in the dungeon is stamina based while I'm playing a magicka healer. At the very least they could make the bonus rewards for completing the random dungeons more role specific.

Referring to the rest of the discussion:
There is an art to being a great tank or healer or dps and all three are needed in some fashion to complete dungeons with the lowest levels of stress possible. A few tips I've found out through reading forums and playing as these roles myself:
General: Keep track of mechanics, if it is your first time playing a dungeon ask if any of the bosses have unusual/unique ones (i.e. the Adjudicator imprisons you in a flaming cage of anxiety and rage, make sure you have some lock picks and are good enough with them to get yourself out.) Don't leave the rest of your group behind because you want to rush to the bosses then get mad when you have no support. If the boss moves around on a timer, keep track of this so you know when you dodge or pop ults and AoE
Tanks: Hold boss and as many adds as you can in same general area to keep them in DoT AoE's. There is no need to keep the boss running around his little arena, especially if you have a decent healer in the group. Trust the healer, unless he/she has proven they are incompetent.
Healers: Your groups health bars are in the corner for a reason, watch them. Stand far away enough from the boss that you can evade hits and AoE easily, but not so far away that the boss uses its vortex of CC on you (most bosses have some form of this, whether they come to you or bring you to them.) Keep a few bubbles slotted so you can safely resurrect allies. Dampen Magic and Ward Ally provide more than enough damage absorption (About 18k) to get the job done.
DPS: Find a rotation that works for you and mix your DoT types (burn, poison, magic, etc...) because DoT's of the same type don't usually stack and that limits your DPS. Along that same vein of thought, don't spam the same attack. Using a variety of attacks that have different DoTs and debuffs will increase the DPS of the group as a whole and make things run more smoothly. (I don't play DPS or tank much so I don't have much to contribute here. Input would be appreciated)

Volrion

If you're running dungeons, honestly just L2P as a hybrid tank/DPS. For trials you'd want to tank properly, but with dungeons, as long as you can hold agro and keep still on the boss fights you can pretty much do whatever.

I had a trial set-up (DK running BS/Ebon/Tavas) for group finder vet dailies and I ended up scrapping the build because so many DPS players don't actually DPS lol.

I gradually moved closer to DPS until I found a sweet spot of low DPS, but could still hold agro on boss fights and sit still while everyone did their role.

It's not uncommon for me to be doing higher DPS than the PUGs I'm running with. When we get a good group, we can clear dungeons in no time at all.

I wanted to level undaunted on my NBs.

Sap Tank; BS/Krags/Necro (S&B and Lightning staff) (constant shooting stars lol)

Stam Tank; Troll King/Orgnum/Draugr (S&B and Bow) (Not as much damage as mag but much tankier. Still makes for some very fast runs).

Not meta, and I'm sure others could probably come up with better builds, but people always compliment the extra DPS. We cleared WGT HM in about 20 mins or so the other day. We had some really nice burns on boss fights. As mentioned earlier, I wouldn't run these for anything other than four man content.

Granted I don't find vet dungeons very difficult so these types of build are fine for me.

Magdalina

SwampmanKerns wrote: »

Referring to OP:
Adding incentives for all roles would improve queue times for everyone. Even if it is just making the drop system more intelligent and role specific. I always get annoyed when all the gear I get for killing every mob and boss/mini-boss in the dungeon is stamina based while I'm playing a magicka healer. At the very least they could make the bonus rewards for completing the random dungeons more role specific.

While reward/loot table definitely could use some work(Sharpened Inferno Staff of Sunderflame is beyond ridiculous...), it'd be a pretty bad idea to base rewards on char roles/specs. A lot of people farm on their magicka toons for their stamina builds and vice versa

Brrrofski

ScooberSteve wrote: »

With frost staff even magika can tank now

Magica has been able to tank forever.

I've ran a saptank for over a year. Seen plenty of templar tanks and magica dk tanks too.

Drasn

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

With frost staff even magika can tank now

Meanwhile, people using frost staves is the number one reason I don't PUG dungeons on my tank.

I just let them and the tremor proc pros die.. then continue on until they do it again.

Sausage

Yup, I dont understand why people want more dungeons when the current ones arent event working. Wouldnt it be smarter to improve those current ones and make them more interesting.

NeillMcAttack

It's extremely simple actually!

You reward them by knowing what the roles are actually for, and understanding the mechanics. I've pugged on my tank many times and the amount of players that haven't a clue is what has stopped me doing it for months now. I can spec my tank to do really good damage but then the tougher dungeons become much more difficult. If he is specced full tank even the simple ones become a grind.

Ep1kMalware

Tasear wrote: »

Issue is simple<3 ESO needs a toturial for dungeons. Why do players have to tanks to s

Magdalina wrote: »

SwampmanKerns wrote: »

Referring to OP:
Adding incentives for all roles would improve queue times for everyone. Even if it is just making the drop system more intelligent and role specific. I always get annoyed when all the gear I get for killing every mob and boss/mini-boss in the dungeon is stamina based while I'm playing a magicka healer. At the very least they could make the bonus rewards for completing the random dungeons more role specific.

While reward/loot table definitely could use some work(Sharpened Inferno Staff of Sunderflame is beyond ridiculous...), it'd be a pretty bad idea to base rewards on char roles/specs. A lot of people farm on their magicka toons for their stamina builds and vice versa

This might explain why I've got a nirn and sharpened vma inferno but it took so *** long to even get a bow. Hmm

WhitePawPrints

My main is a tank, and I do not desire for more players that don't know what they're doing trying to be tank. Last night in BCII, we had a NB tank who did not pull aggro on mobs, and kited bosses and kept dying. My DPS far exceeded the other's, so I was always attracting the aggro of all the mobs. It made my job a lot more annoying than it should have been, and significantly lowered my DPS (but was still double the other's DPS who kept complaining about the healer) that really slowed the dungeon down and risked wiping.

clocksstoppe

You got everything wrong mate. The reason nobody wants to tank in pugs is because 90% of pug dds are ***. And nobody wants 3 hour dungeons because of dds having 4k dps.

MaxwellC

I hate tanking PuG unless I'm with another friend who's searching with me and he/she must be a DPS. I've ran into people just yesterday on ICP who used heavy attack lightning plus pets to kill enemies while another used 2H spamming reverse slice at 80% health with dizzing swings in between as a form of DPS.

Did I have to bend over backwords to keep everyone alive because the healer was a 'DPS' healer who didn't have healing springs but BoL and no shards or repent through-out the dungeon? HELL YES. It was infuriating to have to pretty much play multiple roles as a tank.

Wifeaggro13

doggie wrote: »

The queue times in the dungeon finder in ESO is the worst I have ever seen in any game. I see players complainin in guilds and on forums that the pledge dungeons can take from 30 min - 1 hour to queue, and a specific non pledge dungeon for sets or helm can take several hours. Many people just get 1 invite per day playing, and if that one run is a fail, I can understand that some people get angry and rage quit etc.

The reason Tanks don't run dungeons in this game are complex, it costs money to respec champion points into tanking if you have them in dps atm. There is very little gear for tanks in dungeons. Tanks need lots of skillpoints to put into passives and to have a solo dps setup, and some crafting. Collecting 400 Skyshards isn't done in 5 min. Tanks need money to upgrade several sets and dungeons don't provide much of a income.

If we look at the gear incentives. Many starting CP 160 Tanks wear Blood Spawn, Tava and Dragonguard. In order to wear that setup you have to wear Dragonguard jewlery and they only come in Healthy trait.(Exept that one blue ring noone seems to wear). If Robust purple jewlery would drom from the daily premium bag(maybe as BOP), that could get some beginning tanks up and running.

With the armor setup above(BS,Tava,DG), you only need 5 DragonGuard items on the Backbar, so the frontbar weaponslot is actually not used for any real set. Most tanks use Agility set, but you could also use +magicka regen for example.

Adding a really nice 2 item set for tanks in Sword&Board, would get some tanks doing dungeons for it. Tbe reason noone uses Master weapons, is #1 It dosen't have Crusher Enchant, #2 it dosen't come as a set.

If we look at Trial gear, Many wear Blood spawn, Ebon,Alkosh,Powerful Assault. Belive it or not the Blood Spawn set is actually not that good. The First bonus is Stamina Regen, which is a useless stat for Tanks, and the Resistance is so,so too. Some Tanks wear 2xmagicka regen 1 set instead. Creating another ultimate set for Tanks with Magicka Regen instead + something more usefull would get many trial tanks intrested. If there is no resources to create a new monster set, just add a item to upgrade Blood Spawn to give Magica Regen as #1 and you're done. That would be a great for many Tanks.

Finally adding single items to a single dungeon isn't going to do wonders. You'll have to add some upgrade for Tanks to the dungeon finder.

Many trial Tanks choose to wear Infused instead of Defending on their swords, to improve the Crusher enchant, if there was a way to add Defending onto the weapon as
a second trait, then I think many Tanks would be into getting that.

Just add a BOP item to the reward bags for doing random dungeons, and when you have 100 you can add a second defending trait to a infused weapon,
to prevent DPS to use it, it could come at a cost of -10% DPS.

I think the best reward for tanks would be. Actual tanking mechanics, skill and depth of knowledge for your role.this would be an adequate reward. People dont tank because its not fun and 90% of the content you dont need one.

WhitePawPrints

MaxwellC wrote: »

I hate tanking PuG unless I'm with another friend who's searching with me and he/she must be a DPS. I've ran into people just yesterday on ICP who used heavy attack lightning plus pets to kill enemies while another used 2H spamming reverse slice at 80% health with dizzing swings in between as a form of DPS.

Did I have to bend over backwords to keep everyone alive because the healer was a 'DPS' healer who didn't have healing springs but BoL and no shards or repent through-out the dungeon? HELL YES. It was infuriating to have to pretty much play multiple roles as a tank.

Ha! You must have had the same PuG I did yesterday as a tank. Had a Khajiit player kept using Dizzying Swing on the bosses when they were no where near 25%. I'm convinced I was doing more healing and DPS than any other individual in the group as my tank.

KerinKor

ESO, like FFXIV, has 4-man groups, THAT's the cause of massive DPS queues .. XIV also has 30+ for DPS .. this is a stupid design as it allows for 50% of players with DPS characters whereas in MMOs world-wide the percentage is 75%+.

So, long DPS queue are there BY ZOS DESIGN.

Stratti

Problem op is the assumption that there are all these tanks out there that just need incentive. Reality seems more like there is very few tanks who actually want to main tank. I am one of the few I know who actually mains tank with all my build set to mitigation. Unfortunately you cannot fix this issue without making massive changes.