Make Ice Staff DPS viable? (+4% damage done passive)

zuto40

No

nah, learn to tank pug

Browiseth

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

ArchMikem

Yes

Browiseth wrote: »

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

OOH, sick burn, brah!

People care about DPS the most because that's the only sure fire way to progress in the content. Things are in your way and they need to die. Only DPS can do that and a lot of people are getting tired of throwing their luck in with random groups hoping the other DPS can actually do things themselves while you've chosen to handle Tanking or Healing. In a better world everyone would rather just Solo everything themselves.

Not to mention people want to play as an Ice Mage for once instead of the exhausted Shock or Fire.

Browiseth

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

ArchMikem wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

People care about DPS the most because that's the only sure fire way to progress in the content. Things are in your way and they need to die. Only DPS can do that and a lot of people are getting tired of throwing their luck in with random groups hoping the other DPS can actually do things themselves while you've chosen to handle Tanking or Healing. In a better world everyone would rather just Solo everything themselves.

that's a gross oversimplification of the playerbase. you talk like everyone is the same; probably because you're assuming they want and feel the same way about things as you do; proving my point that eso players can't see past the bridge of their own nose

Peekachu99

No

Magdalina wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Edit: Also fun is how one's strategy changes. Velindreth, for example, you taunt then either shield spam or just bolt escape (refreshing path if NB) around the room and she just spend the whole fight roaming in circles

...why'd you want to kite a boss, Veli of all things, around the room in a generally stationary fight(assuming you're with a proper group and not soloing or 2 manning or something)? You'd be halving your group's dps by pulling her out of all the ground aoes(including destro ulti), putting your group in danger by forcing them to spread out(especially if they're melee) and for that particular fight, on top of all that you'd also be screwing them into magicka spores because your magicka is higher than your other resources. It sounds like literally worst choice possible there.

In response to the OP, I'd say there're 2 things Zeni can do. Either remove the damn taunt and do something like what you propose or perhaps add some other unique dps/group buff/monster debuff related passive that'd make ice staff viable for dps or keep going the tanky route. In which case they need to really work on that heavy attack taunt thing or/and add more unique buffs/debuff to it as well as there's 0 reason to choose ice staff over s&b beyond being special, even if you're a magicka tank s&b is just so much better. Ice staff tanking could become a very awesome and unique thing but it'd need quite a bit of work for that.

As it is atm ice staff sits in that weird place where hardly anyone uses it to tank and pretty much no one uses it to dps. ...and for some reason I get the feeling Zeni is gonna take option 3 - do nothing and pretend it's fine as it is.

I said kite OR shield stack. And no, Veli follows you in a literal straight line around the outskirts of the room if you choose to kite her. Kiting is for soloing or duoing, yes. Shield stacking for tank and spank.

Options are great and that's what frost staff tanking gives. It does need tuning, though.

BigBragg

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

Makes it more crowd control, utility centric and remove the taunt on heavy attacks. Especially with changes to sustain.

RavenSworn

Imo, they should have divided the three staves to three different resulting damage. Fire being damage over time, lightning being aoe damage and ice being single target direct damage.

As it is now, frost are getting the defensive route, which while not an optimal dps weapon, adds another dimension to the magicka weapons.

Cage_Lizardman

I like to give my dps sorc a frost staff and heavy armor to tank with her sometimes. I don't care about the DPS being lower, but what I miss is a faster way to taunt than heavy attack (and preferably cheaper then Inner Fire), and the maim and fracture debuffs from the One Hand and Shield skills.

I'd like to taunt with light attacks and debuff or crowd control with heavy.

ArchMikem

Yes

Browiseth wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

People care about DPS the most because that's the only sure fire way to progress in the content. Things are in your way and they need to die. Only DPS can do that and a lot of people are getting tired of throwing their luck in with random groups hoping the other DPS can actually do things themselves while you've chosen to handle Tanking or Healing. In a better world everyone would rather just Solo everything themselves.

that's a gross oversimplification of the playerbase. you talk like everyone is the same; probably because you're assuming they want and feel the same way about things as you do; proving my point that eso players can't see past the bridge of their own nose

Its called generalizing, which means not all but the majority. Why do you think DPS have such a long queue time for Pledges while Healers and Tanks get groups instantly? Theres a giant disparity there that proves my point. Try to lighten up a bit by the way, your tone is bordering on insulting.

Stannum

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

Vaoh wrote: »

Currently Ice Staves are totally useless for DPS

Cause one heavy attack and you start to play yakety sax running instead of DPSing

I think it should be buffed another way. For example put minor maim with frost elemental drain

VierulSquirrel

Yes

I would like to say that it seems most if not all the people that have posted about ice stave tanking have never tanked a trial, and correct me if I'm wrong but sword and shield paired with heavy armor give more dmg mit when blocking and block cost reduction than an ice stave paired with any combination you can think of.
Also the "utility" that the ice "chilled" and "immobilize" does not work on elite ads, trolls, daedroth, let alone any boss. It does apply to pvp, "players". I don't agree with the 4% buff, just a rework if the passives and ult ability.
Ice/frost based Sets should be buffed to be 10% more than the other elemental counter parts due to racial/class passives. This is one thing you all are leaving out.
When it comes to tanking with an ice staff you will only get as far as dungeons. There is a whole other section of the game where this is USELESS.
When it comes to DPS I would like for you go to a skeleton test dummy and do 10 attempts of your best rotation with an inferno staff, then 10 more with an ice. You will see a difference, this difference with buffs in trials will only further their gap.
If I'm wrong and ice staff tanking is as good as you claim it be, please post a video of Vet Maw of Lorkhaj of you tanking either of the 3 main bosses. Let alone any other "difficult" content. It doesn't even have to be hard mode. And no, breaking the statue in cradle of shadows does not count.

Thannazzar

Frost Staff = tank (and one that wants the challenge of a difficult build)

If you want to roleplay use a lightning staff and put a frost enchant on it!

VierulSquirrel

Yes

ArchMikem wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

People care about DPS the most because that's the only sure fire way to progress in the content. Things are in your way and they need to die. Only DPS can do that and a lot of people are getting tired of throwing their luck in with random groups hoping the other DPS can actually do things themselves while you've chosen to handle Tanking or Healing. In a better world everyone would rather just Solo everything themselves.

that's a gross oversimplification of the playerbase. you talk like everyone is the same; probably because you're assuming they want and feel the same way about things as you do; proving my point that eso players can't see past the bridge of their own nose

Its called generalizing, which means not all but the majority. Why do you think DPS have such a long queue time for Pledges while Healers and Tanks get groups instantly? Theres a giant disparity there that proves my point. Try to lighten up a bit by the way, your tone is bordering on insulting.

Dps have such a long que time because
1. Most people would group out of their guild.
2. There are much more Dps players than that healers and Tanks.
Proper tanks. No Dps wants to chase a boss around because the ice staff tank can't hold still and mitigate the hits the boss is dealing out.

VierulSquirrel

Yes

Thannazzar wrote: »

Frost Staff = tank (and one that wants the challenge of a difficult build)

If you want to roleplay use a lightning staff and put a frost enchant on it!

It's not about role play, it's about balancing of elemental damage out put. It's that simple. If you want to use an ice staff to tank that's fine. However please suggest ways that won't hinder the damage portion, you cannot shoot down ideas because you don't like them, suggest way to improve your "tanking" options you say it needs "improvement" but don't know how, maybe a whole new weapon tree. All I know is I've never seen any other game with staff "tanks". As goes difficult set up, try medium armor, no healer. It makes it a bit more fun.
P.S - Please upload a clip of your tanking abilities with said set up.

Vaoh

Yes

After seeing how garbage Mag Warden DPS is (23K-26K, 27K with Bear) they really need some way to utilize frost staves and significantly buff their cold damage DPS

Atm it is possible to pull over 1.5x their DPS on other classes They look cool but as a DPS you would be almost selfish to bring your team's DPS down by using one.

Tommy_The_Gun

No

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

Vaoh

Yes

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

This is completely wrong though. You can't just say it "probably" will deal more damage and pass it off as a fact -_-

A Warden would gain 6% damage to their Ice Staff light/heavy attacks thanks to Piercing Cold. That same Warden would gain 10% damage to all fire attacks from a DK's Engulfing Flames debuff, an 8% increase to all single target damage, and 12% more damage on Heavy Attacks. Plus you would also gain access to the Fire Destro Ult and Blockade of Fire.

So not only would a Warden not deal more damage with an Ice staff than others with an Inferno Staff..... they themselves benefit significantly more from an Inferno Staff.

After actual testing, Magicka Wardens are dealing the lowest damage of all 10 class specs (5 classes + Mag/Stam) by a significant amount. I created this thread back when Warden skills were still barely known and the damage values all unknown. Now that we've tested stuff, I support this thread much more

VierulSquirrel

Yes

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

They've tested it on pts. Wardens are doing the least amount at the moment. Look at sorc and dk passives. Then the wardens 6% for frost. Only high elf grants 4% while inferno ult deals 10% more tooltip than ice. Which unbuffed is 10% to its 11000 per tick. Ice is already 10% behind. Then dark elf adds 9% alone. Not taking in dks passive. That's 19% for fire vs 10% for ice ults.
Then there is burning status effect that adds a small dot to targets. That's more damage overall.
Go take a breton and try fire vs ice Dps tests.
Now go take high elf mageblade with inferno Vs. High elf warden ice staff. Tel me which wins. Granted the have 8% dmg buff skills and 8% max magic skills they can slot. So roughly the same max magic same spell damage, same race. May I suggest fining my initial post in this thread and share it so we can get ice staves in people's hand again that actually play the game and want to help make things better for everyone.

VierulSquirrel

Yes

Vaoh wrote: »

After seeing how garbage Mag Warden DPS is (23K-26K, 27K with Bear) they really need some way to utilize frost staves and significantly buff their cold damage DPS

Atm it is possible to pull over 1.5x their DPS on other classes They look cool but as a DPS you would be almost selfish to bring your team's DPS down by using one.

I totally agree. They need to buff the staves passives and ice based set passives. This way if you want to be a pvp ice build you will have to choose wisely between the few ice sets there are. I think a 10-20% buff to ice set bonuses and the ice stave suggestions I have posted will help close the elemental damage gap while keeping the "tanks" happy.

MCBIZZLE300

Yes

If Illambris procced ice i might use one, got 2 sharpened vma ice staves.

VierulSquirrel

Yes

mcb123 wrote: »

If Illambris procced ice i might use one, got 2 sharpened vma ice staves.

I'm planing on actually running ilabris when I play ranged. Ice stave back bared (if Zenimax will make the changes I've suggested) with lighting front bared I know atm people are saying cliff racer is doing more damage, (IDK, I'm not on pts) but with lighting front bared you get a buff to your aoe skills, your force pulse can proc both ilambris, while your light attacks will help proc lighting a bit more. Depends though because inferno is still more damage.

Flameheart

No

They already have their niche in PvP. As I play magicka builds in PvP I damned love my Spinner ice staffs there.

It won't help the Warden much to give frost staffs a damage bonus. This class lacks in every role in raids at mom (maybe usable as an offtank). It needs a much deeper overhaul.

Peekachu99

No

Vaoh wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

This is completely wrong though. You can't just say it "probably" will deal more damage and pass it off as a fact -_-

A Warden would gain 6% damage to their Ice Staff light/heavy attacks thanks to Piercing Cold. That same Warden would gain 10% damage to all fire attacks from a DK's Engulfing Flames debuff, an 8% increase to all single target damage, and 12% more damage on Heavy Attacks. Plus you would also gain access to the Fire Destro Ult and Blockade of Fire.

So not only would a Warden not deal more damage with an Ice staff than others with an Inferno Staff..... they themselves benefit significantly more from an Inferno Staff.

After actual testing, Magicka Wardens are dealing the lowest damage of all 10 class specs (5 classes + Mag/Stam) by a significant amount. I created this thread back when Warden skills were still barely known and the damage values all unknown. Now that we've tested stuff, I support this thread much more

Wardens have every buff and utility in the book. Their dps has to parse lower or ZoS would have really messed up.

I don't understand why everyone wants everything to be so homogenized in this game (the same people, usually, who then complain about how boring everything is). Frost staff tanking is totally viable and fun. Other staves do better damage. The end. It's fine as is.

Anastian

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

I'd love it to be actually a viable tanking tactic, but I have no suggestion whatsoever for it

joaaocaampos

• Flame Staff = Single Target
• Lightning Staff = AoE Target
• Frost Staff = Magicka Tanking

Even if you want to be a DPS Frost Mage, the Destruction Staff changes came because of the Warden.

What I want, in fact, is a new type of weapon for Magicka users: a Magic Damage focused weapon! The Destruction Staff focuses on elemental (flame, shock and frost) damage, and this only covers Dragonknights, Sorcerers and (Winter's Embrance) Wardens. What about the Templars, Nightblades and (Animal Companions) Wardens? Magic Damage! That's what Magicka users really need!

Vaoh

Yes

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

This is completely wrong though. You can't just say it "probably" will deal more damage and pass it off as a fact -_-

A Warden would gain 6% damage to their Ice Staff light/heavy attacks thanks to Piercing Cold. That same Warden would gain 10% damage to all fire attacks from a DK's Engulfing Flames debuff, an 8% increase to all single target damage, and 12% more damage on Heavy Attacks. Plus you would also gain access to the Fire Destro Ult and Blockade of Fire.

So not only would a Warden not deal more damage with an Ice staff than others with an Inferno Staff..... they themselves benefit significantly more from an Inferno Staff.

After actual testing, Magicka Wardens are dealing the lowest damage of all 10 class specs (5 classes + Mag/Stam) by a significant amount. I created this thread back when Warden skills were still barely known and the damage values all unknown. Now that we've tested stuff, I support this thread much more

Wardens have every buff and utility in the book. Their dps has to parse lower or ZoS would have really messed up.

I don't understand why everyone wants everything to be so homogenized in this game (the same people, usually, who then complain about how boring everything is). Frost staff tanking is totally viable and fun. Other staves do better damage. The end. It's fine as is.

Warden can easily boost their DPS by a good 8K (what they need to be viable) without really buffing them at all in PvP. ZoS needs to mainly look at DoTs and their interaction with the Ice Staff as well as Warden passives. Already made a thread on this but it will get much more attention once PTS ends if Mag Warden is horrible on Live.

No class has to suck at a role, especially DPS. If that's the case, then we should praise ZOS for giving Mag Sorcs the highest DPS of any class.

Also Ice Staff tanking is viable and fun huh...??

Agree to disagree I guess

Merlin13KAGL

Vaoh wrote: »

They are severely outclassed DPS-wise by Inferno/Shock staves in every way. This is why you will not find anyone using them in endgame unless they're roleplaying lol. In that case using your fists works too

I think fists actually travel faster and are harder to dodge

Imryll

Yes

Something needs to change if they're going to continue to drop more frequently than other staves. Maybe keep the taunt as a separate option, so that it's available for tanking, but don't reduce the functionality of the staff for non-tanks.

ANGEL_BtVS

Yes

Browiseth wrote: »

why does everything need to be about dps

there's two staves dedicated to that right now. focus on making it better for tank roles, as they're severely lacking in any variety

oh no, wait, i forgot eso players are incapable of thinking about anyone but themselves lmao

The irony and hypocrisy in this post...

Peekachu99

No

Vaoh wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Warden Class with its passives will probably be able to do more dmg with ice staff than any current magica class with inferno staff. Furthermore - ice staff makes you tanky...

This is completely wrong though. You can't just say it "probably" will deal more damage and pass it off as a fact -_-

A Warden would gain 6% damage to their Ice Staff light/heavy attacks thanks to Piercing Cold. That same Warden would gain 10% damage to all fire attacks from a DK's Engulfing Flames debuff, an 8% increase to all single target damage, and 12% more damage on Heavy Attacks. Plus you would also gain access to the Fire Destro Ult and Blockade of Fire.

So not only would a Warden not deal more damage with an Ice staff than others with an Inferno Staff..... they themselves benefit significantly more from an Inferno Staff.

After actual testing, Magicka Wardens are dealing the lowest damage of all 10 class specs (5 classes + Mag/Stam) by a significant amount. I created this thread back when Warden skills were still barely known and the damage values all unknown. Now that we've tested stuff, I support this thread much more

Wardens have every buff and utility in the book. Their dps has to parse lower or ZoS would have really messed up.

I don't understand why everyone wants everything to be so homogenized in this game (the same people, usually, who then complain about how boring everything is). Frost staff tanking is totally viable and fun. Other staves do better damage. The end. It's fine as is.

Warden can easily boost their DPS by a good 8K (what they need to be viable) without really buffing them at all in PvP. ZoS needs to mainly look at DoTs and their interaction with the Ice Staff as well as Warden passives. Already made a thread on this but it will get much more attention once PTS ends if Mag Warden is horrible on Live.

No class has to suck at a role, especially DPS. If that's the case, then we should praise ZOS for giving Mag Sorcs the highest DPS of any class.

Also Ice Staff tanking is viable and fun huh...??

Agree to disagree I guess

I didn't say "suck" (your words), I said "parse lower". And yeah, it is okay for some classes to be better at things than others. Otherwise what's the point? You just have identical roles/ classes with different visual effects. Wardens have buffs on lock-down, they are an amazing support class and utility-choice for that reason.

They don't need to be top of the charts in dps, too, and we've gone off topic anyway since this forum is about ice staffs.

On topic, I cited numerous examples in my responses to this post (not our conversation, mind you) on how "fun" ice staff tanking can be. Anyway we have different opinions on the matter, and that's okay, because difference, not homogenization, makes the world so interesting