Make Ice Staff DPS viable? (+4% damage done passive)

Vaoh

Currently Ice Staves are totally useless for DPS, and often mediocre for tanking compared to 1H/S (I never see anyone use it at all).

The Warden class (which is a cold/nature based class) will gain a passive increasing Cold Damage done by 6%. Still, even they cannot use Ice Staves for DPS because they would lose out significantly in damage. Here is the reason:
• Dragonknights increase Flame Damage done by 8% for the whole group
• Fire Staves increase Single Target damage by 8%
• Lightning Staves increase AoE damage by 8%
• Fire Staves are inherently the strongest at Single Target damage
• Lightning Staves are inherently stronger at AoE damage and have a very powerful AoE heavy attack

Ice Staves are not even close in any way DPS-wise.

I think it'd be a great idea for Ice Staves (on top of their rarely-used ability to block damage) to passively grant 4% damage done, a number that is half the value of both the inferno and shock staff values.

It would create an option still weaker than Shock Staves at AoE DPS due to the lack of increased base AoE damage + a powerful AoE Heavy Attack, and still weaker than Inferno Staves at Single Target DPS+Fire Damage due to the lack of increased base Single Target Damage and the benefit of Light/Heavy attacks getting buffed by the Dragonknight's group Flame Damage buff.

I think that the Heavy Attack attack taunt needs to go and Inner Fire should become the 1st ability unlocked in the Undaunted Skill line, but that isn't what this poll is about. That is a separate issue. I'm creating this poll to see if people want the Ice Staff to be even remotely viable for DPS (at least for Wardens), which begins with giving Ice Staves a damage buff that somewhat aligns it with Inferno/Shock staves... then of course the Heavy attack taunt can go. Right now it is for tanking and tanking only.

Sheva I 7 I

well with stupid taunt they added in, it wont change a thing. Who wants a dps in trial, that constantly grabs aggro

SanderBuraas

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Vaoh

Yes

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

No, they aren't viable.

They are severely outclassed DPS-wise by Inferno/Shock staves in every way. This is why you will not find anyone using them in endgame unless they're roleplaying lol. In that case using your fists works too

Even before the passive 8% damage buff to Shock/Inferno staves arrived it was a rare sight to find endgame Frost staff users.

phillyproduct

Yes

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Viable in what content?

Vaoh

Yes

phillyproduct wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Viable in what content?

roleplaying

BRogueNZ

Maybe

Not discounting your thoughts but If you're after dps why choose frost?

The taunt I can't completely understand, except that frost seems to me to be best for cc which has its uses.
Taunt them in and keep them there approach..

andreasranasen

Yes

Why would anyone vote no on this?

No one uses Ice Staffs right now. You get kicked from trial guilds for even thinking of slotting one.

Ice Staffs needs a dmg increase buff!

SanderBuraas

Vaoh wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

No, they aren't viable.

They are severely outclassed DPS-wise by Inferno/Shock staves in every way. This is why you will not find anyone using them in endgame unless they're roleplaying lol. In that case using your fists works too

Even before the passive 8% damage buff to Shock/Inferno staves arrived it was a rare sight to find endgame Frost staff users.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Viable in what content?

@Vaoh, @phillyproduct

Learn your words before you use them.



Just because ice staves are worse than the other two, DPS wise, does not mean it's not viable – hence my first reply.

andreasranasen

Yes

Smepic wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

No, they aren't viable.

They are severely outclassed DPS-wise by Inferno/Shock staves in every way. This is why you will not find anyone using them in endgame unless they're roleplaying lol. In that case using your fists works too

Even before the passive 8% damage buff to Shock/Inferno staves arrived it was a rare sight to find endgame Frost staff users.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Viable in what content?

@Vaoh, @phillyproduct

Learn your words before you use them.



Simply because ice staves are worse than the other two, DPS wise, does not mean it's not viable – hence my first reply.

"Capable of working successfully". You won't have a successful trial or score if your group lack DPS due to a specific weapon. So no, it's not viable.

phillyproduct

Yes

Smepic wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

No, they aren't viable.

They are severely outclassed DPS-wise by Inferno/Shock staves in every way. This is why you will not find anyone using them in endgame unless they're roleplaying lol. In that case using your fists works too

Even before the passive 8% damage buff to Shock/Inferno staves arrived it was a rare sight to find endgame Frost staff users.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

Viable in what content?

@Vaoh, @phillyproduct

Learn your words before you use them.



Just because ice staves are worse than the other two, DPS wise, does not mean it's not viable – hence my first reply.

Lol bro i was really asking a question( which u still haven't answered) in what content pvp or pve? Maelstrom or trails? Guess i shouldve elaborated?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No

andreasranasen wrote: »

Why would anyone vote no on this?

No one uses Ice Staffs right now. You get kicked from trial guilds for even thinking of slotting one.

Ice Staffs needs a dmg increase buff!

No one ever used ice staffs in the way you are wanting them. They were never the bis for magic, they were always second or third class in dps. If you want to dps with an ice staff, do it, as long as you don't have the skill points into the first passive, you will be okay. You will be able complete all content in the game.

Now you are going to cry about ice staff usage not setting the world on fire in trials, geuss what, the type of person that wants to get those high scores and best times and such will not care how they get it done. It is all about efficiency and effectiveness for those people and the ice staff was never on the table for them. These type of people are literally 1% of the people in the game.

I for one love the changes to the ice staff and Really enjoy having more options for tanking then the s/b. They don't need more damage because you survive so much better then a fire or lightning staff. Think about, you are asking for a damage boost to a weapon that you will already take 20% less damage when blocking. That is huge.

andreasranasen

Yes

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Why would anyone vote no on this?

No one uses Ice Staffs right now. You get kicked from trial guilds for even thinking of slotting one.

Ice Staffs needs a dmg increase buff!

No one ever used ice staffs in the way you are wanting them. They were never the bis for magic, they were always second or third class in dps. If you want to dps with an ice staff, do it, as long as you don't have the skill points into the first passive, you will be okay. You will be able complete all content in the game.

Now you are going to cry about ice staff usage not setting the world on fire in trials, geuss what, the type of person that wants to get those high scores and best times and such will not care how they get it done . It is all about efficiency and effectiveness for those people and the ice staff was never on the table for them. These type of people are literally 1% of the people in the game.

I for one love the changes to the ice staff and Really enjoy having more options for tanking then the s/b. They don't need more damage because you survive so much better then a fire or lightning staff. Think about, you are asking for a damage boost to a weapon that you will already take 20% less damage when blocking. That is huge.

Do you even trial bruuuhhh?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No

andreasranasen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Why would anyone vote no on this?

No one uses Ice Staffs right now. You get kicked from trial guilds for even thinking of slotting one.

Ice Staffs needs a dmg increase buff!

No one ever used ice staffs in the way you are wanting them. They were never the bis for magic, they were always second or third class in dps. If you want to dps with an ice staff, do it, as long as you don't have the skill points into the first passive, you will be okay. You will be able complete all content in the game.

Now you are going to cry about ice staff usage not setting the world on fire in trials, geuss what, the type of person that wants to get those high scores and best times and such will not care how they get it done . It is all about efficiency and effectiveness for those people and the ice staff was never on the table for them. These type of people are literally 1% of the people in the game.

I for one love the changes to the ice staff and Really enjoy having more options for tanking then the s/b. They don't need more damage because you survive so much better then a fire or lightning staff. Think about, you are asking for a damage boost to a weapon that you will already take 20% less damage when blocking. That is huge.

Do you even trial bruuuhhh?

What does this mean?

SaRuZ

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

How is it ruined? You simply don't put skill points into the passive. Saves you 2 skill points. What is the problem.

Vaoh

Yes

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

That's the thing.... if the idea was to make Ice staff able to tank too then fine. the Heavy Attack taunt makes Ice Staves not just bad DPS, but a hazard in group content (especially vet trials) for anyone besides a tank to use. Inner Fire should become the 1st skill in the Undaunted Skill line as a clear and smart solution.

Ice Staff DPS can easily be increased the same way we saw Fire/Shock staves buffed - a % damage buff. Making it a middleground between these two elements allows it to be unique and viable over alternatives. Wardens would actually have incentive to use them too for actual DPS and not strictly roleplaying lol.

It would bring Ice staves into Vet trials which they are currently are never seen in (unless you are trying to get kicked ofc).

SaRuZ

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

How is it ruined? You simply don't put skill points into the passive. Saves you 2 skill points. What is the problem.

Because Frost loses out on DPS as opposed to Single Target for Inferno & AoE for Lightning.

Vaoh

Yes

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

How is it ruined? You simply don't put skill points into the passive. Saves you 2 skill points. What is the problem.

The problem is that you are decreasing your damage dealt by a significant amount by using an Ice Staff. The equivalent would be slotting an Inferno Staff but then not using any jewelry or weapon sets... it's currently horrible and purposely for making you deal much less damage.

Yes you can go "roleplaying" as a Frostmage, but you will be kicked from any semi-serious group by doing so.

A 4% damage dealt buff (and removal of heavy attack taunt) would give Ice Staves the ability to be used in endgame for at least Warden DPS.

Do you even run Vet trials or am I talking with someone who is unaware of how endgame groups and builds look in ESO?

BRogueNZ

Maybe

a simple solution would be morphs. one for taunt the other for dps

SaRuZ

Other - buff but in another way (or even nerf)

Vaoh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

How is it ruined? You simply don't put skill points into the passive. Saves you 2 skill points. What is the problem.

The problem is that you are decreasing your damage dealt by a significant amount by using an Ice Staff. The equivalent would be slotting an Inferno Staff but then not using any jewelry or weapon sets... it's currently horrible and purposely for making you deal much less damage.

Yes you can go "roleplaying" as a Frostmage, but you will be kicked from any semi-serious group by doing so.

A 4% damage dealt buff (and removal of heavy attack taunt) would give Ice Staves the ability to be used in endgame for at least Warden DPS.

Do you even run Vet trials or am I talking with someone who is unaware of how endgame groups and builds look in ESO?

Honestly, imo, why make Warden the only viable class with that 4%? They could instead buff Single Target dmg to 6% & AoE dmg 62% - Half of the other two so you get both.

Either way, they need to change it. Seeing Inferno staff as BiS for 99% of Mag builds is boring and dumb.

BRogueNZ

Maybe

BRogueNZ wrote: »

a simple solution would be morphs. so i guess a skill, not a passive.
one for taunt the other for dps

. not so simple, thinking about it some.

Vaoh

Yes

BRogueNZ wrote: »

a simple solution would be morphs. one for taunt the other for dps

Passives can't be morphed though

BRogueNZ

Maybe

Vaoh wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

a simple solution would be morphs. one for taunt the other for dps

Passives can't be morphed though

indeed. replied first. think later. I do that .

Kay1

Yes

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

I hit rats for 26k with 1 light attack with it, this guy is right they are OP, this thread is pointless everyone is already running an ice staff.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No

Vaoh wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

That's the thing.... if the idea was to make Ice staff able to tank too then fine. the Heavy Attack taunt makes Ice Staves not just bad DPS, but a hazard in group content (especially vet trials) for anyone besides a tank to use. Inner Fire should become the 1st skill in the Undaunted Skill line as a clear and smart solution.

Ice Staff DPS can easily be increased the same way we saw Fire/Shock staves buffed - a % damage buff. Making it a middleground between these two elements allows it to be unique and viable over alternatives. Wardens would actually have incentive to use them too for actual DPS and not strictly roleplaying lol.

It would bring Ice staves into Vet trials which they are currently are never seen in (unless you are trying to get kicked ofc).

They did get buffed, you can block 20% more damage for 30% less stam. I say that is a huge buff.

Vaoh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ice stave taunt needs to be removed, whoever thought this up needs to be fired and whoever made it so it was implemented in the game needs to be drug tested and then fired for failing.

I am a frost mage, DPS. I like the style and you ruined it for me. There aren't any magicka tanks, wake the **** up and put the crack pipe down. Buff this build type here and now, don't ruin it for those of us that aren't going to jump on the warden train.

Lol, wait, I forgot who I was talking to! Hahahahaha.

How is it ruined? You simply don't put skill points into the passive. Saves you 2 skill points. What is the problem.

The problem is that you are decreasing your damage dealt by a significant amount by using an Ice Staff. The equivalent would be slotting an Inferno Staff but then not using any jewelry or weapon sets... it's currently horrible and purposely for making you deal much less damage.

Yes you can go "roleplaying" as a Frostmage, but you will be kicked from any semi-serious group by doing so.

A 4% damage dealt buff (and removal of heavy attack taunt) would give Ice Staves the ability to be used in endgame for at least Warden DPS.

Do you even run Vet trials or am I talking with someone who is unaware of how endgame groups and builds look in ESO?

Okay let's put some numbers to this.

Let's say you somehow do 30,000 dps single target damage with a fire staff. This means that is you had an ice staff equiped, you would of done 27,778 damage instead. Now tell me that is that really significant? You would be able to complete literally all content in the game with that 27,778 dps.

But the truth is that you will be doing both single target and AOE damage, so the difference will be much less then that, I usually around 50/50 single target and AOE damage on my sorc, so that real world difference will be much less. And you will have much better survivability.

The point of all this is if you want to main an ice staff, it is VERY simple, like unreal how simple it is, just do not put points into the passive. End of story.

andreasranasen

Yes

Kay1 wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

I hit rats for 26k with 1 light attack with it, this guy is right they are OP, this thread is pointless everyone is already running an ice staff.

Who is running an ice Staff in 2017? With 180 days worth of gameplay I've only seen a couple of people using ice Staffs other than roleplaying.

Molydeus

Yes

andreasranasen wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Increasing damage done by 4% will not make ice staves viable, because they already are – it would simply make them better. I don't believe it's needed.

I hit rats for 26k with 1 light attack with it, this guy is right they are OP, this thread is pointless everyone is already running an ice staff.

Who is running an ice Staff in 2017? With 180 days worth of gameplay I've only seen a couple of people using ice Staffs other than roleplaying.

His sarcasm went right over your head.

kewl

Ice staff tanking is gimmicky. Please remove and make it a viable dps option.

Royaji

No

Even for Wardens ice-staff will never be viable as a DD weapon. The only ice damage skill they get is scaled from health and you will be kicked out of trial for having 30k health on a DD. There are no good ice damage skills in the game, the only ones you have are 3(!) skills from the destro staff tree and that's it. So for a DD ice staff will forever be a poor man's inferno.

But they might actually become viable for Warden off-tanks. Being able to do some direct damage is a good buff for them. And the whole winter embrace skill line is centerd about group support. We will have to see how it goes but I expect to see some Warden off-tanks in trials after Morrowind drops.

So no, the decision was made and ice staff will never be the weapon of choice for DDs. It's pretty obvious ZOS considers ice to be a support element and not just another way of dealing damage.

Elwendryll

No

In my opinion, ice should be for CC, blocking. It should not be equal to fire and lightning in term of DPS, because there are these utility components. Instead, they should buff the tank ability, and allow to taunt in a more reliable (and faster) way. 1h/sword holders don't taunt with heavy attacks. The taunt/blocking is nice. But you should be able to taunt only on purpose. Ice staff should be viable for a tanky dps, or for a tank, but not able to compete with fire and lightning for a full DPS build.