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Why hasn't root spam been addressed yet?
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If they wont make a cooldown on roots, then atleast make people turn around and to the side instead of that lame DK who just spams it and try going behind to stab you in the back.
Of course the DK is going to root you and move to a better position. There'd be no point if you rooted them in melee distance (6m range) then sat there and ate their damage anyway.
You got it backwards. The DK has the means to keep you in melee range cause thats the only way they can do dmg. That doesnt mean they should be immune to dmg just because they can keep you in melee range. This is completely stupid.0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭Root spam needs to stay in the game. There are some builds that if you don't keep them locked down they will never die. They will just keep running around that tree, rock or whatever until you just get so bored with the fight that you want to die just to go somewhere else. If you get rid of root spam you get rid of one of the few counters to that play style.
I find it hilarious to watch 5-6 plus ppl chasing one dude around a tree. I just sit there for a few secs laughing, then cast a couple encases at him/her, and they usually go down within a minute after that. It's truly not being prepared on your bars for counter-acting that playstyle."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭every group has its dedicated purgers just like its dedicated ccers, if cc is a problem for you adjust your build and how you play, cc has been around forever and root/lockdown isnt going anywhere0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As a solo mag Sorc where is my counter to root spam?
Purge costs nearly 5k as a Breton in Seducer with 70+ Magician points and after casting it I'm rooted again instantly
I'm not a vampire so no Mist
Maneuvers, shuffle, and forward momentum are all Stam abilities I can't use.,maneuvers costs like 90% of my Stam bar
What am I supposed to do when these groups Encase spam me?
I'll tell you what, die because I can't move...I can't even Streak in the direction of my mouse cursor anymore
Root spam is only a benefit to large groups at the direct injury to all small group and solo players
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fastolfv_ESO wrote: »every group has its dedicated purgers just like its dedicated ccers, if cc is a problem for you adjust your build and how you play, cc has been around forever and root/lockdown isnt going anywhere
Right to the point. You nailed it. If cc is a problem u adjust ur build. You get more stamina sustain to break free whenever u get cced. Root spam has no counter. You cant adjust ur build. Purge is not a counter. It costs tons of magicka that isnt going to do anything cause 1 second later u are rooted again. Purge isnt a counter unless u are spamming it. You cant do that solo and in a small group. Immunity is the only way to counter roots. Just like u use stuns skillfully the same way u should use roots skillfully. Not abusing the crap out of it because there is no root immunity.4 -
Turtl3Lov3✭✭✭✭Forward Momentum, Shuffle, Purge, Retreating Maneuvers, Mist Form, Roll Dodge, LoS. These abilities/tactics are available to every player/group regardless of class. If you're truly having this big of an issue with roots while sitting in the middle of a zerg, you should rethink your PvP decisions.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »Forward Momentum, Shuffle, Purge, Retreating Maneuvers, Mist Form, Roll Dodge, LoS. These abilities/tactics are available to every player/group regardless of class. If you're truly having this big of an issue with roots while sitting in the middle of a zerg, you should rethink your PvP decisions.
Not everyone is sitting in the middle of a zerg. Purge is not a counter. Root spam is the problem. You purge it once, great u are rooted again. How many times do u think u can use a skill that costs 5k+ magicka? Shuffle, forward momentum are only available to stamina builds. Retreating manuevers lol. Roll dodge tends to cost a lot for magicka builds u know. So u are only left with mist form. So every magicka build should be a vampire using mist form to combat roots?5 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree it's annoying to be in the middle of a Sweeps channel and have a DK walk behind you while your character jabs at the air. But you are asking for that DK to have no counter at all to your main melee attack -- an attack which damages, snares and heals all in one -- while you already have the strongest counter in the game to all of their attacks: Ritual. A magDK spends 12k+ magicka to stack DoTs/talons on a templar and they purge all of it with ~3k magicka AND an ally can pick up a purge as well.
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No_True_Scotsman✭✭✭✭It's like people don't realise you can block or swap cancel mist form or something. Both options are basically instantaneous too.0
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »Forward Momentum, Shuffle, Purge, Retreating Maneuvers, Mist Form, Roll Dodge, LoS. These abilities/tactics are available to every player/group regardless of class. If you're truly having this big of an issue with roots while sitting in the middle of a zerg, you should rethink your PvP decisions.
Not everyone is sitting in the middle of a zerg. Purge is not a counter. Root spam is the problem. You purge it once, great u are rooted again. How many times do u think u can use a skill that costs 5k+ magicka? Shuffle, forward momentum are only available to stamina builds. Retreating manuevers lol. Roll dodge tends to cost a lot for magicka builds u know. So u are only left with mist form. So every magicka build should be a vampire using mist form to combat roots?
Not to mention, the stamina counters cost at most around 3k per use. Even shuffle is less than purge after cost reduction taken into effect.
The only option for me was to make sure I could dodge at will as a magicka build. You take up heavy downsides running vampire, that just don't exist running as a stamina player (if looking at the issue of avoiding dmg/being able to counter root spam.)
They could sightly buff Ironclad to compensate for encase spam, if they won't entertain a proper fix. But it's a shame a magicka class has to explore these non-dmg options that stamina builds get to obtain without sacrificing their main dmg pool.
If zos wants to see the world burn, they could raise the cost on any stamina skill that removes snares/roots
. Or lock a perfect snare immunity spell behind werewolf. I like that second idea the best! Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think root immunity or cooldown would negatively affect immobile players too much. An exponential cost increase on their use sounds reasonable to me though. Like streak and dodge roll, although not necessarily as expensive.PC | EU1 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »I think root immunity or cooldown would negatively affect immobile players too much. An exponential cost increase on their use sounds reasonable to me though. Like streak and dodge roll, although not necessarily as expensive.
Cost increases is worse than a cool down.Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
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Youtube: Asgari0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree it's annoying to be in the middle of a Sweeps channel and have a DK walk behind you while your character jabs at the air. But you are asking for that DK to have no counter at all to your main melee attack -- an attack which damages, snares and heals all in one -- while you already have the strongest counter in the game to all of their attacks: Ritual. A magDK spends 12k+ magicka to stack DoTs/talons on a templar and they purge all of it with ~3k magicka AND an ally can pick up a purge as well.
Ehh...The DK's melee attacks damages, snares, and heals just like Templars.
Every time a Templar puts down ritual they are doing very little to inconvenience the DK. The DK still holds the initiative. It isn't accurate so many people assume Templars are immune to DoTs. Templar players don't spend every Global cooldown casting Ritual! They need to cast spells that do actual damage and just Breath of Life spamming does not automatically purges DoTs.
Edited by Joy_Division on March 18, 2017 9:27AM4 -
AAbrigo✭✭✭If they wont make a cooldown on roots, then atleast make people turn around and to the side instead of that lame DK who just spams it and try going behind to stab you in the back.
Of course the DK is going to root you and move to a better position. There'd be no point if you rooted them in melee distance (6m range) then sat there and ate their damage anyway.
Still broken to the point that it is spammable..
I am a magplar and he roots, I cleanse and the whole fight can continue like that forever..Joy_Division wrote: »
I agree it's annoying to be in the middle of a Sweeps channel and have a DK walk behind you while your character jabs at the air. But you are asking for that DK to have no counter at all to your main melee attack -- an attack which damages, snares and heals all in one -- while you already have the strongest counter in the game to all of their attacks: Ritual. A magDK spends 12k+ magicka to stack DoTs/talons on a templar and they purge all of it with ~3k magicka AND an ally can pick up a purge as well.
Ehh...The DK's melee attacks damages, snares, and heals just like Templars.
Every time a Templar puts down ritual they are doing very little to inconvenience the DK. The DK still holds the initiative. It isn't accurate so many people assume Templars are immune to DoTs. Templar players don't spend every Global cooldown casting Ritual! They need to cast spells that do actual damage and just Breath of Life spamming does not automatically purges DoTs.
Yeah templars are op..
While the dk roots and attack, us templars can cleanse and bol and stay defensively the whole fight..
The only counter to this is to throw javelin and get maybe 1 or 2 seconds to make the fight go the other way... Wait for it... Until he cast roots again..
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Soris✭✭✭✭✭
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This is the summary of a fight between dk and templar.While the dk roots and attack, us templars can cleanse and bol and stay defensively the whole fight..
Templar has to purge non stop to do slight little bit of jab damage. Most dks who duel have enough sustain to perma block and guess what, our block ignoring luminous shard stuns for 0.01 seconds and gives cc immunity for free if you happen to have casted a dot beforehand. (Thanks ZOS) So you dont have that window of "1 or 2 seconds to make the fight go the other way"
For any other magicka class it's even worse to deal with those roots. But at least they can rotate their attacks, do counter attacks etc.. It's the most annoying thing in game jabbing the air for whole fight
Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Lucasalex92✭✭✭Shush u all cry always something about skill and than they get nerf if u don't be quiet soon there will be no enjoyment in pvp if u don't want to play than stop playing instead of complaining all the time gosh last month Jesus Beam was Nefed thanks to pvp moaners !!!0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
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This is the summary of a fight between dk and templar.While the dk roots and attack, us templars can cleanse and bol and stay defensively the whole fight..
Templar has to purge non stop to do slight little bit of jab damage. Most dks who duel have enough sustain to perma block and guess what, our block ignoring luminous shard stuns for 0.01 seconds and gives cc immunity for free if you happen to have casted a dot beforehand. (Thanks ZOS) So you dont have that window of "1 or 2 seconds to make the fight go the other way"
For any other magicka class it's even worse to deal with those roots. But at least they can rotate their attacks, do counter attacks etc.. It's the most annoying thing in game jabbing the air for whole fightLucasalex92 wrote: »Shush u all cry always something about skill and than they get nerf if u don't be quiet soon there will be no enjoyment in pvp if u don't want to play than stop playing instead of complaining all the time gosh last month Jesus Beam was Nefed thanks to pvp moaners !!!
Actually; quoting both here because it outlines an issue that Soris is describing. BOL and Jesus Beam as it was; provided no engaging game play . PvEers should want something different for DPS. BOL is fine for a healer to have as a burst heal but the issue for Templars is they both become just a mindless spam. Good riddance to jesus beam and at the same time; so long as BOL is what it is, I doubt the magicka templar gets given a decent CC in order to turn the tide when pressured. Thats not to say Templars are bad; I like mine and if I can get the pressure going to where I am ahead in the health pool race, I'm good. If it comes down to BOL spam and cleansing ritual spam, im pretty much delaying the inevitable outside of getting an ultimate off.
I'm basically saying something that probably doesn't concern a PvEer in the lack of CC or escape to reset the fight is the templars weakness due to have a great burst heals and cleanse and still a ranged executer that makes them OP zerglings while over blowing their abilities should they actually want to fight someone. As far as PvE DPS; how is that not boring as hell when you get to execute range and its time to get jesus beam to take over your rotation?Edited by technohic on March 18, 2017 2:47PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lucasalex92 wrote: »Shush u all cry always something about skill and than they get nerf if u don't be quiet soon there will be no enjoyment in pvp if u don't want to play than stop playing instead of complaining all the time gosh last month Jesus Beam was Nefed thanks to pvp moaners !!!
It got nerfed and yet its still the best execute in the game. Go figure.
And btw, the "PVP moaners" were not asking for a nerf to dmg.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
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I play magplar, too. mDK/magplar is probably the least satisfying fight overall when evenly matched. Either can go on the defensive and turtle up pretty much indefinitely until someone's zerg runs by. Getting the initiative in a fight matters a LOT with both classes.
Unless the templar is running Ritual of Retribution, in which case my DK starts smiling.
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AAbrigo✭✭✭
I play magplar, too. mDK/magplar is probably the least satisfying fight overall when evenly matched. Either can go on the defensive and turtle up pretty much indefinitely until someone's zerg runs by. Getting the initiative in a fight matters a LOT with both classes.
Unless the templar is running Ritual of Retribution, in which case my DK starts smiling.
Yeah. Ritual Of Retribution aint good at all in PVP.
You can have 10 different debuffs on you, so extended ritual is the only good one.0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »
It's funny you say that, because an hour ago I was whispering someone in-game while a magicka DK was busy trying to make a dent in my health bar with whip spam. Pretty sure my vigor was critting for more than his whips.
Edited by Valencer on March 18, 2017 4:42PM3 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »
It's funny you say that, because an hour ago I was whispering someone in-game while a magicka DK was busy trying to make a dent in my health bar with whip spam. Pretty sure my vigor was critting for more than his whips.
Either he wasn't a optimized end game magicka DK. Or you are one of those builds with "op" heals.2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »
It's funny you say that, because an hour ago I was whispering someone in-game while a magicka DK was busy trying to make a dent in my health bar with whip spam. Pretty sure my vigor was critting for more than his whips.
Either he wasn't a optimized end game magicka DK. Or you are one of those builds with "op" heals.
No, it's that whip spam alone won't kill anyone but a potato. You have to cc, layer dots and then whip a couple times, rinse & repeat.0 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I don't think roots can be compared to hard CC. They aren't even close. When you are rooted, you can fight (well anyone who isn't a puncturing sweep using templar but I digress). You do just as much damage, have just as much resistance. There are a good number of times when I am rooted that I don't break it if there is no immediate threat (i.e. incoming destro bomb).
Roots are incredibly annoying for then you need to move. That is a huge difference. In the context of having to face a bomb-group, that is when roots become super dangerous because in this meta, you explode if you do not move away.
I find that being a vampire completely eliminates the annoyance and 95% of the threat that roots pose. So I don't think the issue is as much roots are too strong as Wrobel has left us with only being an undead abomination as a legit counter and bomb groups do too much instant damage.
The only time I feel a root is too OP is when it is combined with Negate. But that's because Negate is stupidly powerful, not roots.
Give a counter accessible through an Alliance War skill and change Negate so it's not the power equivalent of a 800 cost ultimate and I'd be fine.
Root and negate is very strong. Theyre amongst the only tools left to fight largely outnumbered. Root needs a cooldown, negate should have other counterplay in there as well. But nerfing negate and nothing else rolls things back to numbers meaning everything even more. Cant counter large groups of templars spamming BOL and remembrance the moment they feel threatened without negate/root. Numbers rule everything again.
When Morrowind comes out, templars and BOL won't seem too bad
I'd like to hear your suggestion for "something else" because negate is stupid stong; it blows away the other classes' ultimates, even though banner and nova are more expensive.
If Negate was changed in any way, how will balls of players be separated? I don't like negate anymore than others but as far as essential game mechanic, it has to be there. Remember only 2 negates can overlap at any time and even though you can not cast magic abilities stamina is untouched. I will not go into group play tactics but the tighter the space the harder it is to win.
I should add that when the last set of changes were made I told several other guild leaders that the negate 2.0 wars had begun again. I was laughed at and told repeatedly negates were pointless for sorcs. Wonder how those players feel now.................Overload....LMWAOEdited by Anazasi on March 20, 2017 1:38PM0 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »Forward Momentum, Shuffle, Purge, Retreating Maneuvers, Mist Form, Roll Dodge, LoS. These abilities/tactics are available to every player/group regardless of class. If you're truly having this big of an issue with roots while sitting in the middle of a zerg, you should rethink your PvP decisions.
out of all the posts made, i'd have to agree with this statement the most. Roots are simply effective, if you arent prepared for them, then dont set your expectation bar too high.
As someone that ran this type of build for a long time, I can say its extremely effective and devastating to group sizes across the board. personally, I feel as though any skill that inflicts 70% reduction in movement speed is worse than a soft cc/root.RickterESO
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Guilds: PvP:Bloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)PvE:vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons4 -
I went back recently, but will make a pause again (less money for ZeniMax).
With the latest changes in pvp/ classes , the number of Magicka DK in pvp is greatly increased and i play always in small party or solo and I spend 50% of time under talons or pietrify .
For those who don't play only in Warband , know very well that Forward Momentum, Shuffle, Purge, Retreating Maneuvers, Mist Form are unnecessary and too expensive solution .
Don't have immunity under root isn't acceptable , for me the game became too frustrating ...If the Zerg spam Root/destro ulti is the solution, this game is definitely not for me .
P.S
immunities there were already more than 10 years old gamesEdited by melloni_aleb16_ESO on March 22, 2017 9:53PMDC|EP|AD EU .:. Claymore - all classes DK/Sorc/Nb/templar .: Retired :.
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Philosophy of the poor .: "What you cannot beat ..zerg him " :.0 -
Alphaa✭✭✭Root spam is a problem for Zerging. If you dont want to be locked in place for 2 minutes, Then don't zerg.0