Why hasn't root spam been addressed yet?

thankyourat

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think roots can be compared to hard CC. They aren't even close. When you are rooted, you can fight (well anyone who isn't a puncturing sweep using templar but I digress). You do just as much damage, have just as much resistance. There are a good number of times when I am rooted that I don't break it if there is no immediate threat (i.e. incoming destro bomb).

Roots are incredibly annoying for then you need to move. That is a huge difference. In the context of having to face a bomb-group, that is when roots become super dangerous because in this meta, you explode if you do not move away.

I find that being a vampire completely eliminates the annoyance and 95% of the threat that roots pose. So I don't think the issue is as much roots are too strong as Wrobel has left us with only being an undead abomination as a legit counter and bomb groups do too much instant damage.

The only time I feel a root is too OP is when it is combined with Negate. But that's because Negate is stupidly powerful, not roots.

Give a counter accessible through an Alliance War skill and change Negate so it's not the power equivalent of a 800 cost ultimate and I'd be fine.

I would rather have someone spamming CCs than roots. I can take a cc, break it and get immunity where I'm free to move. Root spam shuts down all movement. Sure you can fight but if you are fighting a tanky root spammer more than likely you'll just get zerged down before you can kill him

IxSTALKERxI

Being on the receiving end of root spam is only a problem in group sizes less than 6. If your solo / small man you gotta carefully choose your fights.

Beardimus

Sounds like Sorc finally have something almost as annoying as Fear was for ALL of 2016. Will have to give it a look

thankyourat

Beardimus wrote: »

Sounds like Sorc finally have something almost as annoying as Fear was for ALL of 2016. Will have to give it a look

What's going on now has nothing on fear. encase is toxic. you might as well spam it if you are playing in a group. Roots are the strongest thing in the game right now

RinaldoGandolphi

There is a reason every group of more then 6 people you run into all have people dedicated to spamming Restraining Prison....because its just so OP in locking you down, which as Joy alluded to. you do so quickly now if you can't move, it makes mobility pretty much mandatory or else, this is why nearly every magic build in PVP is a vampire, what other choice do they have? its either Mist form, or unable to move and run over by a train....

if they would give us a counter to roots in the Allaince War line, i could live with that too.

Psilent

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

There is a reason every group of more then 6 people you run into all have people dedicated to spamming Restraining Prison....because its just so OP in locking you down, which as Joy alluded to. you do so quickly now if you can't move, it makes mobility pretty much mandatory or else, this is why nearly every magic build in PVP is a vampire, what other choice do they have? its either Mist form, or unable to move and run over by a train....

if they would give us a counter to roots in the Allaince War line, i could live with that too.

Isn't there already a counter?! Efficient Purge for Mag builds and Retreating maneuvers for stamina.

montiferus

Root spamming needs to go. Those that defend it must run in large groups because if you play small or solo the root spamming is an absolute nightmare. It makes larger groups even more effective than they already are. Kills gameplay. It is just one more item in a long line of removing skill from this game. Ball up in a big zerg and just root, spam heals and destro..rinse and repeat. It's a joke.

The best is when one of these garbage players fall behind their zerg. They die so easily.

FENGRUSH

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think roots can be compared to hard CC. They aren't even close. When you are rooted, you can fight (well anyone who isn't a puncturing sweep using templar but I digress). You do just as much damage, have just as much resistance. There are a good number of times when I am rooted that I don't break it if there is no immediate threat (i.e. incoming destro bomb).

Roots are incredibly annoying for then you need to move. That is a huge difference. In the context of having to face a bomb-group, that is when roots become super dangerous because in this meta, you explode if you do not move away.

I find that being a vampire completely eliminates the annoyance and 95% of the threat that roots pose. So I don't think the issue is as much roots are too strong as Wrobel has left us with only being an undead abomination as a legit counter and bomb groups do too much instant damage.

The only time I feel a root is too OP is when it is combined with Negate. But that's because Negate is stupidly powerful, not roots.

Give a counter accessible through an Alliance War skill and change Negate so it's not the power equivalent of a 800 cost ultimate and I'd be fine.

Root and negate is very strong. Theyre amongst the only tools left to fight largely outnumbered. Root needs a cooldown, negate should have other counterplay in there as well. But nerfing negate and nothing else rolls things back to numbers meaning everything even more. Cant counter large groups of templars spamming BOL and remembrance the moment they feel threatened without negate/root. Numbers rule everything again.

Xeniph

I don't understand this thread.

Root spammers and Purge monkeys have been a thing in organized groups for, well, ever. In fact I believe the only change in this area has been a nerf to bombard facilitating a shift to encase, but Talons spammers have always been around.

There are also numerous personal and group ways to deal with root spam and it's only really an issue for zerglings. As a solo player I rarely encounter it, unless I am on an Tank type toon. But again, Momentum as a Stam toon or Mist form as a magicka toon renders root moot.


If a change did happen, I think I would rather see an "Soft CC" lockout for the caster, rather than an immunity to the target. A 3-5 second CD on the abilities, if you will. However it still allows for multiple coordinated folks to lock down people.

Asgari

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

pieratsos

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

Asgari

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

If you have issues with roots then idk what you are doing when you play. The only times ive ever been locked down was from being snared to hell or that poison that roots you even in mist.

On all of my chars roots arent even noticeable, its the snares every time because they are never ending. Any sorc or DK spamming a root isnt doing dmg so if you die to that you should feel bad.

Joy_Division

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think roots can be compared to hard CC. They aren't even close. When you are rooted, you can fight (well anyone who isn't a puncturing sweep using templar but I digress). You do just as much damage, have just as much resistance. There are a good number of times when I am rooted that I don't break it if there is no immediate threat (i.e. incoming destro bomb).

Roots are incredibly annoying for then you need to move. That is a huge difference. In the context of having to face a bomb-group, that is when roots become super dangerous because in this meta, you explode if you do not move away.

I find that being a vampire completely eliminates the annoyance and 95% of the threat that roots pose. So I don't think the issue is as much roots are too strong as Wrobel has left us with only being an undead abomination as a legit counter and bomb groups do too much instant damage.

The only time I feel a root is too OP is when it is combined with Negate. But that's because Negate is stupidly powerful, not roots.

Give a counter accessible through an Alliance War skill and change Negate so it's not the power equivalent of a 800 cost ultimate and I'd be fine.

Root and negate is very strong. Theyre amongst the only tools left to fight largely outnumbered. Root needs a cooldown, negate should have other counterplay in there as well. But nerfing negate and nothing else rolls things back to numbers meaning everything even more. Cant counter large groups of templars spamming BOL and remembrance the moment they feel threatened without negate/root. Numbers rule everything again.

When Morrowind comes out, templars and BOL won't seem too bad

I'd like to hear your suggestion for "something else" because negate is stupid stong; it blows away the other classes' ultimates, even though banner and nova are more expensive.

Jules

Yes.

pieratsos

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

If you have issues with roots then idk what you are doing when you play. The only times ive ever been locked down was from being snared to hell or that poison that roots you even in mist.

On all of my chars roots arent even noticeable, its the snares every time because they are never ending. Any sorc or DK spamming a root isnt doing dmg so if you die to that you should feel bad.

Judging by this thread and the state of PVP which is more zergy than ever id say im not the only one having issues with roots. And im not dying to the root spammer obviously. Im not talking about 1v1. Lmao. Out of this thread the only thing u got is people dying in 1v1 by a root spammer? You probably need to go back and read again. Im talking about when there are 1-2 monkeys keeping u permarooted till u eventually get zerged. What exactly are people playing solo suppose to do? Roll dodge? Great, they are rooted again. We can continue to debate here which one is more broken. Snares or roots. It doesnt matter. The thing that matters is that even magblades and sorcs use mist form. The two classes that are designed to be mobile and have mobility in their classes still use mist form to combat roots and snares. Not even going to talk about templars and DKs. 99% of them use mistform (including you). Both roots and snares are broken. Both need to be addressed.

Turelus

I'm sad no one has posted something like this in the thread yet, so I am going to be unconstructive and do so.

technohic

I have died to being Xv1ed with root spam but running my Templar; I sometimes think without them doing that, they may not be able to kill me outside of bringing more numbers. I mean; I have a cheap cleanse but then I am using that rather than cast BOL of I sit there and eat it while casting BOL and the numbers get me because I can't LOS. Or I can mist form and try to escape but that working or not does not depend on root spam. It more depends on gap close spam and persistent zerglings. Roots just keep me from getting into LOS mode as easily. I expect to die in those situations.

On the flip side; if I am running in a group of 10 or less and attacking/defending a breach against greater numbers of full raids and more; spamming roots or snares can help have that larger group trickle in rather than all of them coming in at once and overwhelming with numbers. If there is immunity; that's not going to help.

I'd just prefer the inconvenience of having them as is over the inconvenience of them losing effect.

Asgari

Cool downs or immunity to roots only helps the zergs more.

Sandman929

I'm not sure root/negate would be such a menace if there weren't 3-4 massive unblockable AoE ultimates immediately following them. Is the problem really root/negate?

Asgari

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm not sure root/negate would be such a menace if there weren't 3-4 massive unblockable AoE ultimates immediately following them. Is the problem really root/negate?

No its not lol. Sure its a stupid strong combo for sorcs. but the lock down with no way for mag users to move is what kills them because they cant block the major destro aoe spam thats about to come with it.

thankyourat

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Cool downs or immunity to roots only helps the zergs more.

It would also help solo players. Solo players aren't spamming roots on groups the are the ones being rooted. It may hurt the small ball groups, but it will definitely help solo PvP.

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

If you have issues with roots then idk what you are doing when you play. The only times ive ever been locked down was from being snared to hell or that poison that roots you even in mist.

On all of my chars roots arent even noticeable, its the snares every time because they are never ending. Any sorc or DK spamming a root isnt doing dmg so if you die to that you should feel bad.

Judging by this thread and the state of PVP which is more zergy than ever id say im not the only one having issues with roots. And im not dying to the root spammer obviously. Im not talking about 1v1. Lmao. Out of this thread the only thing u got is people dying in 1v1 by a root spammer? You probably need to go back and read again. Im talking about when there are 1-2 monkeys keeping u permarooted till u eventually get zerged. What exactly are people playing solo suppose to do? Roll dodge? Great, they are rooted again. We can continue to debate here which one is more broken. Snares or roots. It doesnt matter. The thing that matters is that even magblades and sorcs use mist form. The two classes that are designed to be mobile and have mobility in their classes still use mist form to combat roots and snares. Not even going to talk about templars and DKs. 99% of them use mistform (including you). Both roots and snares are broken. Both need to be addressed.

Mist form sucks for solo players if you are playing in a small group is great to help you get to your group, but if you are solo it's horrible it's way too defensive. It's a shame that's the only option magicka builds have

Sandman929

thankyourat wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Cool downs or immunity to roots only helps the zergs more.

It would also help solo players. Solo players aren't spamming roots on groups the are the ones being rooted. It may hurt the small ball groups, but it will definitely help solo PvP.

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

If you have issues with roots then idk what you are doing when you play. The only times ive ever been locked down was from being snared to hell or that poison that roots you even in mist.

On all of my chars roots arent even noticeable, its the snares every time because they are never ending. Any sorc or DK spamming a root isnt doing dmg so if you die to that you should feel bad.

Judging by this thread and the state of PVP which is more zergy than ever id say im not the only one having issues with roots. And im not dying to the root spammer obviously. Im not talking about 1v1. Lmao. Out of this thread the only thing u got is people dying in 1v1 by a root spammer? You probably need to go back and read again. Im talking about when there are 1-2 monkeys keeping u permarooted till u eventually get zerged. What exactly are people playing solo suppose to do? Roll dodge? Great, they are rooted again. We can continue to debate here which one is more broken. Snares or roots. It doesnt matter. The thing that matters is that even magblades and sorcs use mist form. The two classes that are designed to be mobile and have mobility in their classes still use mist form to combat roots and snares. Not even going to talk about templars and DKs. 99% of them use mistform (including you). Both roots and snares are broken. Both need to be addressed.

Mist form sucks for solo players if you are playing in a small group is great to help you get to your group, but if you are solo it's horrible it's way too defensive. It's a shame that's the only option magicka builds have

ZOS should just come right out and say this isn't a solo/small-scale game for PvP. No changes ever disempower large group, and apart from a new debuff that applies to players based on other friendly players within a certain radius, or a reworked dynamic ultimate generation mechanic, I don't really see how any future changes will disempower large groups.
Large AoE's are effective, but large groups pick them up too and use them and small scale is again disadvantaged.

NBrookus

I don't think ZOS would be going to the considerable effort of releasing battlegrounds if they only wanted large scale pvp.

If the game continues to devolve all the way toward whomever bring the most numbers wins, PVP will completely die because there's no game in always knowing the predetermined outcome.

t3hdubzy

Wont lie after reading this thread i started spamming crippling grasp on line of sighters, and tanks/healers who are tough to kill. They go down pretty quickly now.


Thanks

Oompuh

Encase, Vampire Drain, Negate
GET LOCKED DOWN

AAbrigo

If they wont make a cooldown on roots, then atleast make people turn around and to the side instead of that lame DK who just spams it and try going behind to stab you in the back.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Cool downs or immunity to roots only helps the zergs more.

It would also help solo players. Solo players aren't spamming roots on groups the are the ones being rooted. It may hurt the small ball groups, but it will definitely help solo PvP.

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Root spam isnt the issue. Its Snares + Roots .. Roots are fine if they just create a major and minor for snares so people do not get 75% reduced move speed. Then you can avoid most of the root spam which besides sorcs isnt effective to spam.

How exactly is it fine? If you are playing solo and there are two monkeys spamming encase and talons on ur ass what does it matter if u are snared. u still cant move. Most magicka builds are running with mist form. And you can still be snared while in mist form. But at least u can move. Its obvious that the only time roots are not a huge problem is when u have immunity. When u see magblades and sorcs playing with mist form then something is seriously wrong. Snares are a problem too but whether u fix snares or not, root spam will still be a problem.

If you have issues with roots then idk what you are doing when you play. The only times ive ever been locked down was from being snared to hell or that poison that roots you even in mist.

On all of my chars roots arent even noticeable, its the snares every time because they are never ending. Any sorc or DK spamming a root isnt doing dmg so if you die to that you should feel bad.

Judging by this thread and the state of PVP which is more zergy than ever id say im not the only one having issues with roots. And im not dying to the root spammer obviously. Im not talking about 1v1. Lmao. Out of this thread the only thing u got is people dying in 1v1 by a root spammer? You probably need to go back and read again. Im talking about when there are 1-2 monkeys keeping u permarooted till u eventually get zerged. What exactly are people playing solo suppose to do? Roll dodge? Great, they are rooted again. We can continue to debate here which one is more broken. Snares or roots. It doesnt matter. The thing that matters is that even magblades and sorcs use mist form. The two classes that are designed to be mobile and have mobility in their classes still use mist form to combat roots and snares. Not even going to talk about templars and DKs. 99% of them use mistform (including you). Both roots and snares are broken. Both need to be addressed.

Mist form sucks for solo players if you are playing in a small group is great to help you get to your group, but if you are solo it's horrible it's way too defensive. It's a shame that's the only option magicka builds have

ZOS should just come right out and say this isn't a solo/small-scale game for PvP. No changes ever disempower large group, and apart from a new debuff that applies to players based on other friendly players within a certain radius, or a reworked dynamic ultimate generation mechanic, I don't really see how any future changes will disempower large groups.
Large AoE's are effective, but large groups pick them up too and use them and small scale is again disadvantaged.

This is one of the reasons why I gave up vampire now for my Templar. Yes mist form is great, but with all the fighters guild abilities, fire staff ultimate, etc running around, I took more damage that used to spell "GG" once I got hit by an encase/negate.

And yes I still have mobility (so much mobility that I'm too​ scared to share the build lol). I just gave up following the vampire/heavy armor meta that was ""BIS for Templar.

NBrookus

AAbrigo wrote: »

If they wont make a cooldown on roots, then atleast make people turn around and to the side instead of that lame DK who just spams it and try going behind to stab you in the back.

Of course the DK is going to root you and move to a better position. There'd be no point if you rooted them in melee distance (6m range) then sat there and ate their damage anyway.

Minno

NBrookus wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

If they wont make a cooldown on roots, then atleast make people turn around and to the side instead of that lame DK who just spams it and try going behind to stab you in the back.

Of course the DK is going to root you and move to a better position. There'd be no point if you rooted them in melee distance (6m range) then sat there and ate their damage anyway.

Exactly why you need to keep those turtle-knights at range. Can't be all mad if you got close and expected them not to use talons lol.

pieratsos

Roots are not a counter to zergs. Roots are a counter to every style of play. Solo, small scale, zerg it doesnt matter. Its a counter to everything. If u cant move, u are screwed. Which is one of the reasons why there are so many zergs in the first place. A sorc playing solo will most likely not have a place for roots on his bar. In a zerg its the first thing on ur bar. Same applies when u are on the receiving end of the root. If u are solo u are most likely screwed if u cant move. If u are in a zerg there are people whose only job is to spam purges and retreating maneuver so u dont have a probelm with roots. So why would people play solo or in small groups if half the time they either die to bullsh*t mechanics or they cant kill anything because of bullsh*t mechanics. Saying that roots is a counter to zergs is the same thing as saying vicious death is a counter to zergs. How the hell is it a counter to zergs when zergs are those that abuse it the most. Make solo and small scale viable and there wont be as many zergs. You can start doing that by fixing snares and roots so people can at least move.