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Suggestion to address the actual problem of objectives trading in Cyrodiil

frozywozy
frozywozy
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When mister @ZOS_BrianWheeler explained how they would process with the new Double AP week including keeps, outposts and ressources, instead of stopping only at killing and healing players, I asked in Twitch chat to @ZOS_GinaBruno a few times "Are there any plans to counter the outpost trading that is going to occurs on less popular campaigns?" The question got ignored and I managed later on to ask one of my contacts who knows an important ZOS employee to ask that person the same question. He got told that there were no plans in place to counter such measure.

Here we are today.

What can we learn from this? As much as I agree with the first though of our PvP lead on testing Cyrodiil performances, I think he could have listened more to advices from active pvpers before increasing the AP gain for capturing objectives. Only doubling the AP for killing and healing players would have convinced people to PvP and engage each other, probably even more than including objective captures on top of that.

As a future reference, I suggest the following system to make it work without any problem. First of all, reduce the overall base AP gain for capturing objectives from the Homestead patch from 1500 to 1000 for ressources, 6000 to 4000 for outposts and 6000 for keeps.

Then, make the amount of AP given to players linked with the objective level (1-5). 1 being the least amount and 5 being the most. Finally, make the amount of AP given scale with the amount of players in the area when the objective flips.

For example :
  • If one player flips a ressource level 5, that person gets 1000 APs.
  • If 10 players flip a ressource level 5, they all get 100 APs.
  • If 4 players capture an outpost level 5, they all get 1000 APs.
  • If 8 players capture an outpost level 5, they all get 500 APs.
  • If one player flips a ressource level 1, that person gets 200 APs.
  • If 10 players flip a ressource level 1, they all get 20 APs.
  • If 4 players capture an outpost level 1, they all get 200 APs.
  • If 8 players capture an outpost level 1, they all get 100 APs.

Then you add the APs related to the amount of deaths in the area while the objective was contested.

This system discourages zerging, encourages players to hit objectives less contested and stops exploiting.
Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds

“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
  • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
  • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
  • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
  • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
  • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
  • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
  • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
  • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
  • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
  • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
  • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
  • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
  • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
  • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
  • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
  • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
  • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
  • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
  • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
  • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
  • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
  • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
  • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
  • Introduce dynamic population
  • Lower population cap by 20%
  • Add Snare Immunity potions
  • Bring resurrection sickness
  • Fix character desync
  • Fix cc breaking bug
  • Fix gap closer bug
  • Fix health desync
  • Fix combat bug
  • Fix streak bug
  • Fix server lag
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Just add a timer that does not let you get AP from the same resource or keep withint 10 minutes. Fixed.

    Maybe keep 12k for taking a keep in that case even.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    frozywozy wrote: »
    This system discourages zerging, encourages players to hit objectives less contested and stops exploiting.

    This is a wonderfully baseless statement.
    Edited by usmcjdking on March 3, 2017 10:56PM
    0331
    0602
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    ^ Yep.

    And Derra with the /thread. Rip
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    Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.

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  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    This system discourages zerging, encourages players to hit objectives less contested and stops exploiting.

    This is a wonderfully baseless statement.

    Discourages zerging

    Balancing the O ticks with D ticks encourage people to defend objectives just like we did before instead of waiting for the enemy to flip it to push inside. It also encourages people to get away from a battle if they judge there is enough players of their faction already engaging. Right now, everyone zerg a keep until it flips because nobody wanna miss the big O tick. Before, I used to unstack my group from a large assault. Now I just stay until the end.

    Encourages players to hit different objectives

    Making the AP rewards for capturing objectives scale off the actually objective's level encourage people to hit objectives level 5, so in other words, objectives less contested. In the meantime, people will be spreading out all over the map.

    Stops exploiting

    People actually trading outposts on Haderus EU would get totally countered by this system because first of all, the more players in the area, the less APs they would get. And on top of that, they would get only the APs for an objective level 1 which is almost pointless.

    Hope you enjoyed your lesson of logic 101 from primary school.
    Edited by frozywozy on March 3, 2017 11:18PM
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
    Frosted - Magplar - AR50
    Frodn - Magden - AR50
    Warmed - Magblade - AR50
    Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
    Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
    Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
    PvP Group Builds

    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring resurrection sickness
    • Fix character desync
    • Fix cc breaking bug
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix streak bug
    • Fix server lag
  • AJ_1988
    AJ_1988
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    @MyNameIsElias We are aware of that behavior and will be adjusting values of Outposts, Resources and Keeps after the event.
    He said that in his post here.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323521/cyrodiil-performance-test-and-double-ap-event/p1
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    AJ_1988 wrote: »
    @MyNameIsElias We are aware of that behavior and will be adjusting values of Outposts, Resources and Keeps after the event.
    He said that in his post here.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323521/cyrodiil-performance-test-and-double-ap-event/p1

    Thank you! Glad they are taking action.
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
    Frosted - Magplar - AR50
    Frodn - Magden - AR50
    Warmed - Magblade - AR50
    Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
    Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
    Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
    PvP Group Builds

    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring resurrection sickness
    • Fix character desync
    • Fix cc breaking bug
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix streak bug
    • Fix server lag
  • kyle.wilson
    kyle.wilson
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    They already have a system that reduces AP from kills. Maybe they should do the same thing with all AP gains.
    If the resource/keep doesn't flip after a certain period of time the AP goes back to normal. That would discourage flipping more than reducing AP by group size.
  • Ghettokid
    Ghettokid
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    I like fighting at the bridge. Just saying. Goodbye.
  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    Frozn, with all your high-horse rhetoric about not stacking, I find it surprising you abandon these values for a handful of AP you don't even need.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • montiferus
    montiferus
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    Stop zerging? I've watched one of your videos. You were running in a 17 man raid. How many need to be in a group before you are classified as a "zerg"?
  • Satiar
    Satiar
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    montiferus wrote: »
    Stop zerging? I've watched one of your videos. You were running in a 17 man raid. How many need to be in a group before you are classified as a "zerg"?

    17? If he'd only had one less we could have been spared all that lag. So rude.
    Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
    Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost



  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    At this point it doesn't matter, the damage has been done.

    They should have acted faster and slapped a band-aid patch onto before the double AP event, even if it was only changing the values of Outpost and leaving everything else.

    I want to love ZOS and I do think they're good people, but they make some really stupid decisions sometimes and this entire AP farming fiasco was one of them.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Derra wrote: »
    Just add a timer that does not let you get AP from the same resource or keep withint 10 minutes. Fixed.

    Maybe keep 12k for taking a keep in that case even.

    I dont know why people keep saying this.

    If you PvDoor a keep you get 6K AP.

    If legitimately "back-cap" a keep - that is immediately capture it just after another faction expends their resources in the initial take - something that actually has strategy and isn't easy to pull off - you get 0.

    Edited by Joy_Division on March 7, 2017 2:46PM
  • Grumble_and_Grunt
    Grumble_and_Grunt
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    Derra wrote: »
    Just add a timer that does not let you get AP from the same resource or keep withint 10 minutes. Fixed.

    Maybe keep 12k for taking a keep in that case even.

    I dont know why people keep saying this.

    If you PvDoor a keep you get 6K AP.

    If legitimately "back-cap" a keep - that is immediately capture it just after another faction expends their resources in the initial take - something that actually has strategy and isn't easy to pull off - you get 0.

    Then put a separate CD for different alliances?
    PC EU
    Fix Powerful Assault
    #3Qbiken
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