Trait research times need to be toned down

White wabbit

No

If I can do it and I'm one of the laziest people on here then the rest of you can put the effort into

me_ming

No

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

I'm just gonna say it, the only people I see who are bitter are the people who are just too whinny to wait for their researches to be complete. Be patient. Geez!

Prof_Bawbag

me_ming wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Yeah not gonna happen or all of us who researched them the long way WILL revolt

Things change. Just because I had to do something doesn't mean I would expect others have to do the long wait.

After all, my grandfather used to get up at 4am to work down a mine shaft and not return home until around 8pm. Doesn't mean we all have to do the same *** to earn the same wage. I've no axe to grind as I'm approaching 8 traits on all my crafting other than the woodworking which will all be 9 trait in 7 days.

Well, if you get black lung from research, please be sure to let us know. Alternately, you can do your research on a character, and then, you know, do anything else you want on that character while the research ticks. You can research 9 items simultaneously, which, if you keep track of your research progress, means you can knock it out fairly quickly... okay, yeah, it takes about six or seven months. But, that doesn't mean you can't run content on that character, or you know, play the game. It just means you can't instantly make Twice Born Star sets. (And, really, if you're crafting, most of the good stuff is around 6 traits, so you can get there in under a month, if you know what you want.)

Erm, eh ... way to take it to the extreme. I never once insinuated anyone should be able to make TBS instantly. Nor has anyone within this thread for that matter. A small increase that requires extra skill points would be better. I suppose that's me now wanting TBS in 2 days now, though, huh?

That's the problem with most people who dislike change. They see everything as a case of either or. No in-between. Because waiting over a year is deemed too long, we must want it all INSTANTLY!!!!

Well, then what exactly do you want with this change? To get things done as fast as you can or in other words, instantly, am I right?

Not sure if you're being serious, but on the off chance that you are, I'm not even gonna waste my time explaining what we want to someone like you. You're not interested, thus I'm not interested adding any more to this post. Find someone else to troll.

Cpt_Teemo

Kneighbors wrote: »

This is very simple poll, you can tell results from the start:

90% of the people who already finished researching will vote No. They already did it so no reason to nerf it now for others.

90% of the people who still didn't finish it will vote Yes.


Taking into account that most people on forums are devoted ESO players with hundreds of hours in game, the polle result will be 65%-80% for No, and only around 25% wil vote Yes.

I'm about done just like 15-20 more, but I wouldn't mind if they cut back on the timer even if I completed multiple T9s already.

or better yet just make motifs / traits server wide like i said.

UrQuan

Linaleah wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

After homestead the release of master writs people all of a sudden realize the value in master crafters? Sounds like your wanting to short cut the process that not many people have done....9 traits take a long time for a reason keep it the way it is.

case in point.

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

No. It's more analogous to someone who spent years getting the certification they needed in order to get gainful employment in their chosen field (which doesn't have a lot of paying jobs to begin with), and they don't want the certification to become a quick rubber stamp that requires no time/effort to get because then there'll be too many people competing for too few jobs.

You need to recognize that allowing traits to be researched quickly would actively be taking away one of the ways dedicated master crafters have of making gold. It's not just a silly "I suffered so other people should suffer" mentality, it's something that is actively bad for the people who already put in the time.

Also, as I've already mentioned, the trait research time is the only thing stopping people like me from getting our armies of alts to do tons of writs and have great chances of getting tons of master writs. I mean I already have 8 characters doing max-level writs per day - if I could easily and quickly research traits to increase my chances of having master writs drop I'd increase that to 28 characters.

That would have 2 effects: first the master writ market would be saturated, and those people who put in a ton of time to get their 1 character to be a master crafter would lose their ability to make a decent amount of gold off the master writs they get. Second, the master writ drop rates would get reduced to make up for everyone with lots of alts getting master writ vouchers far quicker than intended. Do you want those things to happen?

oh bullcrap.

speeding up research doesn't equate it to instant master crafter. it equates to people actualy becoming master crafters in forseeable future, having it take OVER A YEAR? is insane.

Is it really so difficult for people to actually read the whole thread? It's only 3 pages long. It's not a big investment in your time, and it can save you from looking foolish.

As I've said multiple times (which you could have found out if you had bothered to read the thread), a moderate decrease in research time wouldn't be a problem. What OP was originally asking for was a major decrease in research time, which would have the effects I noted above. In fact, you were also asking for the rates to be halved at a minimum, which would lead to exactly what I described.

Linaleah wrote: »

moreover. having more master writs out there would be beneficial, because then they would actualy be more accessible to more people. unlike real life training, you are not actualy master at anything other then "I have played this game longer then other people" thing.

*facepalm*

Come back when you have some idea about MMO economies. Or when you realize that more master writs dropping than ZOS intended means they'd nerf the drop rate, and then everyone who didn't have an army of master crafter alts would be getting screwed over.

Like I've said, if ZOS did something as drastic and stupid as halving research times, I would be the one to benefit the most, along with anyone else with as many alts as me (12 characters at 50 in every craft skill, 16 more well on the way to it - if trait research didn't take so long they'd all be master crafters instead of just 1 having 9 traits in everything, and 2 others having 9 traits in just a single craft each). And it would screw over everyone else. Excuse me if I actually like to look at the big picture rather than just what would be the greatest benefit to me personally.

I understand in game economies just fine. i also understand that current ESO economy is oligarchy where the few keep the stranglehold on aforementioned economy vie combination of monopoly through guild traders and just sheer headstart they got on everything else, including crafting. leaving majority of the players unable to afford much through in game means and unable to earn it in any reasonable time because the catch up mechanics only extend as far as slightly faster rate of earning champion points... up to a point, but nowhere else.

this is not good for long term health of the game. even just halving the rate of time it takes to research - will STILL require at least half a year. which is a VERY long term commitment. but at least its more of a visible goal. but please, do keep holding on to your virtual monopoly.

Once again, I strongly urge you to actually read the thread. The fact that you keep on failing to do so means that you keep saying things that are completely nonsensical. Like me "holding on to my virtual monopoly," when I've said flat-out that I would be the one to benefit the most from a significant reduction in research times (I'd be able to quickly go from 1 master crafter to 28 of them, drastically increasing my master writ drops), and that I don't make any gold at all from crafting because I choose not to ever sell my crafting services. It makes it literally impossible to take anything you say seriously.

you keep mentioning that 9 trait crafting is the only thing crafters have to keep making money. but you are so very much not interested in that being undermined. ok then

god forbid it doesn't take entire year for a newer player to get their crafting leveled up. god forbid high level writs don't go for a mil each. GOD FORBID more people can afford larger homes, or just to upgrade their damn gear. maybe market SHOULD be flooded with more writs so that competition brings down prices to something more people can afford to pay. the disparity between what typical quest reward earns you vs the costs of things in game is NUTS.

I don't know you are so upset about benefiting from being able to have more crafters. I.. don't get it. so you'll get more master writs? what is so WRONG about that? aside from the fact that you are lying and you ARE making money of those and don't want the market to drop down to something manageable by more players.

Now you're just proving again that either you can't read or you won't read. Because I've already told you exactly what the problem is with all of that.

I have no interest in continuing a conversation with a troll. You're sitting there talking and talking and talking while sticking your fingers in your ears so that you don't have to hear anything but your own voice.

UrQuan

KerinKor wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

How exactly does research time change depending on the order in which you choose to do them? When you stack every trait, you still get the same overall research time, regardless of order. Or is my brain completely useless today?

It's because the maximum number of traits you can research at a time is 3, but the total number of items that you can research traits on is not divisible by 3 (well, not for blacksmithing or clothing anyway). So if you research all 9 traits on 3 items at a time, and then move on to researching all 9 traits on the next 3 items, and continue that way you'll end up wasting 1 of your 3 research slots when you get to the last 2 items that you haven't yet researched any traits on.

Er, I think he's correct.

The fact that the last 'group' only has 2 traits makes no difference to the overall time to learn all 9 .. the time to research one 'group' doesn't depend on the number in that 'group'.

Wrong. If you work on the basis of "complete all traits on an item before moving onto the next item" basis then with maxed-out passives and 3 research slots it will take you 9,337.5 hours (without ESO+) to get to 9 traits on every item for blacksmithing.

If you work on the basis of "complete all of the 1st traits before moving on to all of the 2nd traits, and so on" basis with maxed-out passives and 3 research slots it will take you 9,009 hours (without ESO+) to get to 9 traits on every item for blacksmithing. Because if you do it that way you never have any research slots idle until you're already on your final couple of traits, while with the other method you spend a significant amount of time with 1 research slot idle (1,867.5 hours working at 2/3 capacity).

Jaeysa

Other: Don't care. Doesn't really effect me all that much.

I have everything researched, and it took an ungodly amount of time to do so. It felt so good to finally get that last nirnhoned light belt finished. But I'm not super worried about others having an easier time of it than I did.

Aquanova

No

The only reason I vote no is because I had to go through the grueling process to become 9 trained. The system ZOS has in place is counter intuitive. You'd think as a more skilled Crafter research would be faster as I'd know what corners to cut but no, not by ZOS logic. At this point (3 years after the fact) I feel everyone should go through what I did to get to 9 trait.

Prof_Bawbag

Aquanova wrote: »

The only reason I vote no is because I had to go through the grueling process to become 9 trained. The system ZOS has in place is counter intuitive. You'd think as a more skilled Crafter research would be faster as I'd know what corners to cut but no, not by ZOS logic. At this point (3 years after the fact) I feel everyone should go through what I did to get to 9 trait.

If you want it to remain in place, then it couldn't have been that counter intuitive. You're basically endorsing the very thing you're criticising by stating nothing should change.

I get people have no qualms regarding the duration and that's not what I'm questioning, I'm just a little bit perplexed why anyone would criticise it on one hand whilst not wanting it any other way on the other. ZoS' logic is because some people argue for that logic to remain.

Slammer99uk

No

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Damn "want it now" generation

Again, who has actually said they "want it now"? Yet another person that is responding to things that they hoped were posted rather than what was actually posted. I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but if you're gonna trash people's pov at least trash what was said rather than what you hoped was said just so you can appear all condescending and superior to those you disagree with. Most of us are big enough and ugly enough to accept our point isn't always correct, so feel free to disagree with the things we typed.

This is the problem with these types of discussions, many people who come into them from the opposite side of the argument have very little to offer so instead start inventing things so they can appear better than they actually are.

From OP "Do you think research times should be reduced? By how much? Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?"

I read the post, understood it, thought about it and gave my opinion. The fact that you didn't like my opinion means absolutely nothing to me.

If you have finished trolling here, I am sure there are posts that would actually welcome your input.

DurzoBlint13

I am fine with the time it takes but give us a REASON to want to research them! Craft sets need to be brought up to par with the drop sets....AND they need to give 9-trait crafters the option to change the appearance of drop gear. I feel that only 9-trait crafters should be able to change the appearance of gear

Violynne

No

Remag_Div wrote: »

What is the community consensus on this?

Judging by the results, the majority say "Nope".

Do you think research times should be reduced?

Nope. This game is an investment, which means everything I do pertains to the character, not the game. If I'm to "level up", I expect to do so by "learning", which includes researching.

By how much?

Rhymes with "hero".

Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?

I get the system may be difficult for new players to the game, but let's face a reality here: the majority of people who have invested this time with their first character don't go through these issues.

Myself included, I have a character to which I can craft any light/med armor for my new characters, so of course I'm going to learn the most beneficial traits which only take hours, rather than days.

For the useless ones, like "Prosperous", that one can sit at 30 days and I couldn't care less. I have zero interest in this trait and the only reason I need it is for other traits which require all 9 be learned first.

New players can overcome this restriction by joining a guild, and asking fellow guild members to craft items with specific traits as well.

This game gives everyone the potential to learn this way, without major restrictions. By changing the core, then the entire purpose of learning a trait becomes pointless as an investment to the character.

I'm in the minority when I say this, but I want to take my time building my characters, not rush out and have them CP 600 w/ full max armor/weapons in a week.

Moonscythe

Yes

Yes, because it seems like it is becoming more important to have everything researched on one character to be able to craft for homestead. I would be happy, though, to just be able to transfer research to a different character. I have old characters I no longer play hanging around doing only crafting because they know everything for one skill. I've changed, the game has changed and I would like to get a fresh start because I really intend to go to Morrowind and I just don't like the characters I have. I don't do high level grouping or end game stuff and am happy that way but I would like to be able to have gear that will keep me alive. I know I'm an evil casual player and don't really want to schedule my time around logging on just to do housekeeping in-game. I'm not asking for easy, just a bit of moderation.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

No

I don't like waiting, but I think it shouldn't be a simple thing to max out. Everyone wants instant gratification in this game. No one has any patience anymore. People complain to much about RNG and wait times for items. This game has been THE EASIEST to get stuff. I've played a bunch of other MMO's and it was WAY harder to get stuff than this game.

Want a crafting system even worse? Played final fantasy. Either 11 or 14. How about spend millions of gold to make a single item that only has a chance to work or else the item is broken and that gold wasted, go play Aeon. I can name some more but I think you get my point.

This games crafting system/research is by far the easiest I've ever dealt with.

That being said, I kick myself for not just researching 9 trait stuff long ago because I'd be done already hahaha. I have medium armor almost done but still need heavy, light, weapons, and woodworking stuff lol.

Nelson_Rebel

Yes

With how inferior crafted has become in comparison I see no reason why the 9 trait grind is over a year

Toolzy

At least it's not EVE Online...

Gordon906

Yes

Just because it was a pain for you it doesnt mean you have to make others suffer for it... I bought the game without dlc for 60$ and I dont disagree with the new 30$ price tag. Because it is good for people since it requires less time/invesment.

Remag_Div

Yes

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Damn "want it now" generation

Again, who has actually said they "want it now"? Yet another person that is responding to things that they hoped were posted rather than what was actually posted. I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but if you're gonna trash people's pov at least trash what was said rather than what you hoped was said just so you can appear all condescending and superior to those you disagree with. Most of us are big enough and ugly enough to accept our point isn't always correct, so feel free to disagree with the things we typed.

This is the problem with these types of discussions, many people who come into them from the opposite side of the argument have very little to offer so instead start inventing things so they can appear better than they actually are.

From OP "Do you think research times should be reduced? By how much? Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?"

I read the post, understood it, thought about it and gave my opinion. The fact that you didn't like my opinion means absolutely nothing to me.

If you have finished trolling here, I am sure there are posts that would actually welcome your input.

If you read my OP and understood it, how does this:

Remag_Div wrote: »

Perhaps a simple way to reduce times is to add more ranks to the Metallurgy, Stitching, and Carpentry passives beyond Rank 4 to continue reducing research times up to 50% max instead of just 25%. In this way you have to invest even more skill points into each crafting tree to benefit from this.

Do you think research times should be reduced? By how much? Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?

translate to this:

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Damn "want it now" generation

Your "opinion" sure was helpful to this discussion. Please, enlighten us more.

UrQuan

Remag_Div wrote: »

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Damn "want it now" generation

Again, who has actually said they "want it now"? Yet another person that is responding to things that they hoped were posted rather than what was actually posted. I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but if you're gonna trash people's pov at least trash what was said rather than what you hoped was said just so you can appear all condescending and superior to those you disagree with. Most of us are big enough and ugly enough to accept our point isn't always correct, so feel free to disagree with the things we typed.

This is the problem with these types of discussions, many people who come into them from the opposite side of the argument have very little to offer so instead start inventing things so they can appear better than they actually are.

From OP "Do you think research times should be reduced? By how much? Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?"

I read the post, understood it, thought about it and gave my opinion. The fact that you didn't like my opinion means absolutely nothing to me.

If you have finished trolling here, I am sure there are posts that would actually welcome your input.

If you read my OP and understood it, how does this:

Remag_Div wrote: »

Perhaps a simple way to reduce times is to add more ranks to the Metallurgy, Stitching, and Carpentry passives beyond Rank 4 to continue reducing research times up to 50% max instead of just 25%. In this way you have to invest even more skill points into each crafting tree to benefit from this.

Do you think research times should be reduced? By how much? Should the trait research system even be totally overhauled?

translate to this:

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Damn "want it now" generation

Your "opinion" sure was helpful to this discussion. Please, enlighten us more.

In the context of what the title of the thread originally was, your original post did pretty much translate to that (more or less anyway - it wasn't entirely clear if there was a disconnect between the title and the body of your thread-starter). Since you've edited the thread title to be more reflective of what you were actually trying to say, it doesn't translate to that anymore. I'm not clear on whether he posted that before the title change or after it - if he posted that prior to the title change I'm not surprised that's the conclusion he would draw. If he posted it after the title change then it's the wrong conclusion to come to.

Of course, because of the old title a lot of discussion began in that context, and it can be difficult to change the context of a discussion midway through. Incidentally, this is why I still haven't voted on the poll one way or another: because some people are discussing the question in the context of "should trait research times become trivially short" while others are discussing it in the context of "should trait research times be reduced somewhat" and my answers to those 2 questions aren't the same.

I mean, I'm now completely clear on how you intended the question to be framed (ie. "should trait research times be reduced somewhat" rather than "made trivially short"), and I know what my answer to that is. Sure, they should be reduced somewhat. Just not enough to make it relatively trivial to become a 9-trait crafter. But I'm still not going to vote in the poll because that's not the context of all of the discussion in the thread.

AdamBourke

No

I don't have a problem with the research times. Occasionally I don't even log in for that long anyway, and I forget to check research progress a lot.

I would like to get a notification in the notifications tab when research is finished though, rather than just a message in the corner.

Gordon906

Yes

AdamBourke wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the research times. Occasionally I don't even log in for that long anyway, and I forget to check research progress a lot.

I would like to get a notification in the notifications tab when research is finished though, rather than just a message in the corner.

Then why vote no?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Yes

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Yeah not gonna happen or all of us who researched them the long way WILL revolt

I completed 95% of it so far - the hard way.

I still think the time needs to be shortened; and I certainly would not complain if that happened.

Just another artificial grind to extend the life of boring content (leveling crafting).

All The Best

Chilly-McFreeze

No

Can I please have everything on all of my alts for little to no effort? I don't like leveling my skills, I don't like grinding for xp and loot or searching for skyshards and lorebooks. I also don't want to play pvp for pvp skills. I want free bank and inventar upgrades. I don't want to sub but still get the perks. I want to max my horse on my main and get instant access to it on my other toons. I don't like the effort it takes to decorate my useless houses which I cannot buy because I'm too lazy to gather gold. And I want everything I did on one toon to count towards the achievements of the other 11 characters, so I can put that fancy master thief or stormproof title on chars that never did all this. And I don't want to wait for researching. I don't want to play at all, I just want everything given to me.

See out of hand this gets? Not saying OP wants this all, but some suggestions are... odd. Researching is not even as tedious as e.g. horse feeding or running around for shards. There has been some serious suggestions to improve this game, like token systems or that it's demotivating that your pvp rank is character bound. But this? You have to click 2-3 buttons each time a research is done. It's neither difficult nor exhausting. You just have to wait or come back and play a game that depends on a large playing community.

Since reasearched traits improve your chances on master writs, shortening the time to research would probably lead to a decreased chance for a writ. After all, there should be a something in for someone who plays this game loyaly. Somewhere in an other threadI read that every crafted set should be BoP. Both, shorter research and BoP would deminish or eliminate the reward someone gets for taking that long "journey" to become a master crafter. And even if it's just a tiny percentage in getting on RNGs good site or being one of the "few" that can craft and sell 9 trait sets.

I know forum users are a vocal negative minority but sometimes I have the feeling that some people just want a CoD with swords and staves. Fast action, no effort, being ready from the get go. Somehow you have to bind people to the game, to make 'em play this game as often as possible. And feeding a horse everyday for a bonus you can get or having research done in the background are a few options for this.

SquareSausage

Yes

Lol at everyone saying its master crafter for a reason, so oh yea, your a master crafter cos you have been playing the longest and have put no other skill into after levelling it to 50 except pressing a button every time your timer is up. Wow, thats some skill you have there.

Also its not right in thinking, that because we done it, you should.

if something is excessively grindy or doesnt work or is just plain bad, it should be a consensus to change it rather than make everyone else play through or live with a crap design.

Sordidfairytale

Yes

I've been a 9 trait for a few years, and I agree that the timer does not need to be as long as it is. I agree too that the method is counter intuitive, It should become easier to learn the traits as you become a master crafter.

Having leveled up 3 Enchanters with the original system I welcomed the change to enchanting inspiration gains.

I have to share this method for trait research as well. Learn the traits on two characters at once. One learning the traits from the bottom up, and one learning the traits from the top down. Before long your account will be self reliant for traits and you'll be able to craft the traits you need from either of your characters. Also, before you reach 50 in your crafting skill get the research items on the highest level equipment you can, because after you complete the research on the trait, you gain inspiration from the item. Once you reach 50 in the skill though, you can use level 1 trait equipment.

rustic_potato

Hey everyone wants instant gratification and whine if they don't get it.. It is supposed to be take that long.. Deal with it..

Chilly-McFreeze

No

SquareSausage wrote: »

Lol at everyone saying its master crafter for a reason, so oh yea, your a master crafter cos you have been playing the longest and have put no other skill into after levelling it to 50 except pressing a button every time your timer is up. Wow, thats some skill you have there.

Also its not right in thinking, that because we done it, you should.

if something is excessively grindy or doesnt work or is just plain bad, it should be a consensus to change it rather than make everyone else play through or live with a crap design.

Don't foget the 100+ skill points you have to farm and spend on crafting lines and the thousands of gold to buy every motif but yeah, no effort beside pressing a button.

Marktoneth3

Yes

has been 2 years still has 6 8 left

Marktoneth3

Yes

http://imgur.com/a/cXp7e


More than 2 years son

Still not finish

SquareSausage

Yes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Don't foget the 100+ skill points you have to farm and spend on crafting lines and the thousands of gold to buy every motif but yeah, no effort beside pressing a button.

master crafter was in reference to research times which funnily enough was what the thread was about, all it takes is pressing a button with a level 1 item in your inventory.