raj72616a wrote: »

you use monster helm set for head and shoulder, so you dont have to research these two.

research dagger and ignore the other one handed weapons.
research maul and ignore the other two handed weapons.

there. 50% cut to your total research time.

It is not necessary because you should keep one character with most of the crafting skills while the others require none so you can make items for your other characters without wasting time.

It took me well over a year to learn 9 traits on all pieces with my main (I wasted some time early on because as a noob I simply did not understand the urgency of getting started on research).

I think the research time frames are too long and I would be in favor of shortening them, simply for the benefit of my alts.

If shorter research times result in new players learning all traits in less time than it took me, it really doesn't matter to me.

Chronicburn wrote: »

On one hand I'd love to see times reduced for my benefit ... but doesn't that kind of screw over everyone who waited in line and entered the country legally?

??

I even force guildemates to pay me. I used to do things for free but then I got stiffed. They get a discount though

Cryptical wrote: »

I can count the number of traits yet to research on one hand of a guy that held onto the fireworks too long. I have 25 days to wait for an open blacksmithing slot, so I can begin the absolute final trait to be researched. Then I will be done.

And you're complaining at the 8 trait mark? Srsly?

Congrats, I guess?

Linaleah wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

After homestead the release of master writs people all of a sudden realize the value in master crafters? Sounds like your wanting to short cut the process that not many people have done....9 traits take a long time for a reason keep it the way it is.

case in point.

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

No. It's more analogous to someone who spent years getting the certification they needed in order to get gainful employment in their chosen field (which doesn't have a lot of paying jobs to begin with), and they don't want the certification to become a quick rubber stamp that requires no time/effort to get because then there'll be too many people competing for too few jobs.

You need to recognize that allowing traits to be researched quickly would actively be taking away one of the ways dedicated master crafters have of making gold. It's not just a silly "I suffered so other people should suffer" mentality, it's something that is actively bad for the people who already put in the time.

Also, as I've already mentioned, the trait research time is the only thing stopping people like me from getting our armies of alts to do tons of writs and have great chances of getting tons of master writs. I mean I already have 8 characters doing max-level writs per day - if I could easily and quickly research traits to increase my chances of having master writs drop I'd increase that to 28 characters.

That would have 2 effects: first the master writ market would be saturated, and those people who put in a ton of time to get their 1 character to be a master crafter would lose their ability to make a decent amount of gold off the master writs they get. Second, the master writ drop rates would get reduced to make up for everyone with lots of alts getting master writ vouchers far quicker than intended. Do you want those things to happen?

oh bullcrap.

speeding up research doesn't equate it to instant master crafter. it equates to people actualy becoming master crafters in forseeable future, having it take OVER A YEAR? is insane.

Is it really so difficult for people to actually read the whole thread? It's only 3 pages long. It's not a big investment in your time, and it can save you from looking foolish.

As I've said multiple times (which you could have found out if you had bothered to read the thread), a moderate decrease in research time wouldn't be a problem. What OP was originally asking for was a major decrease in research time, which would have the effects I noted above. In fact, you were also asking for the rates to be halved at a minimum, which would lead to exactly what I described.

Linaleah wrote: »

moreover. having more master writs out there would be beneficial, because then they would actualy be more accessible to more people. unlike real life training, you are not actualy master at anything other then "I have played this game longer then other people" thing.

*facepalm*

Come back when you have some idea about MMO economies. Or when you realize that more master writs dropping than ZOS intended means they'd nerf the drop rate, and then everyone who didn't have an army of master crafter alts would be getting screwed over.

Like I've said, if ZOS did something as drastic and stupid as halving research times, I would be the one to benefit the most, along with anyone else with as many alts as me (12 characters at 50 in every craft skill, 16 more well on the way to it - if trait research didn't take so long they'd all be master crafters instead of just 1 having 9 traits in everything, and 2 others having 9 traits in just a single craft each). And it would screw over everyone else. Excuse me if I actually like to look at the big picture rather than just what would be the greatest benefit to me personally.

UrQuan wrote: »

As I've said multiple times (which you could have found out if you had bothered to read the thread), a moderate decrease in research time wouldn't be a problem. What OP was originally asking for was a major decrease in research time, which would have the effects I noted above. In fact, you were also asking for the rates to be halved at a minimum, which would lead to exactly what I described.

just curious but since you and others keep speaking in generalities - what would you consider moderate decrease and major decrease are?

Currently the 9th trasit is like 60 days adjusted down to 30 with skill points in theory and down to 27 by eso+ and skill points in theory.

What would be the minimum time for that last trait you would consider acceptable?

My view is a possible option from my experience would be something akin to what i suggested above:
Every trait takes 1 week to learn - every one, first, middle and last.
Each piece of gear with the trait fed into research on a trait after the first reduces the time by one day, down to a minimum of 1 day total.

So, burn 7 pieces of gear and learn any trait in a day - if they all had the gear.

If you want to complicated it, let quality play a role as well - green = -1 day off. blue = -2 days off. purple = 3 days off and gold -4 days off - again min 1day.

So the fastest one could max it all to 8 (with 308pc of normal gear spent in order to get to 1 day each) is ~ 30 days at best (34 items 8 traits each 3 at a time at best in each craft burning 63 items (fewer if quality is increased) a day to cut things down to a day.) .
To get to 9 traits on any trait costs you one nirnhoned and a week or shorter but at the cost of extra nirnhoned (rather unlikely to get those down to one day each so i will assume a week for those) or 34 more weeks.

This keeps it from being "quick and easy" cuz you gotta either feed lotsa gear into the shredder every day or take time.
It does setup a reasonable daily routine folks would comee back for.
it jams up the works at getting to 9 specifically at nirnhoned unless you want to spend a lot. So that nirnhoned step is going to be either a massive time sink or mats sink.

Anybody making it in less than a year is doing so by determination, perserverence and effort/expense. Anyone getting it in under six months was rich.

M0bi wrote: »

Lazy people.... need to work for your grind...
ZoS shouldnt make the game easy to obtain everything. Blizzard did this to Diablo 3 and I hate them for it.

Yeah I voted yes but it was knee-jerk ...
With deeper thought I think it's not fair to get for free or easy what someone else had to work hard for!

yes newer players will never be able to catch up and quit, while i am 100% in favor of older players have an advantage over newer players there should be some catch up mechanism so they arent always behind

Artemiisia wrote: »

Hell no, its called Master Crafter for something, its not meant to be easy, and never meant to be something you have on more hen one char.

Now with the master writs, this finally means that the people like me, that has spend that time researching everything, finally gets what we deserve, and small rng chance at getting something more.

Wahaha master crafter meaning something?

Just play the game and deconstruct loot to level up and resreach traits while doing quests is not hard.
It takes time yeah but the crafting in this game is so easy to get you only need to press a button to deconstruct and a click to research a trait.

The 9th trait takes a long time but it's not hard. Even casuals are '" master crafters", And what is the use? Dropped gear is better.

Master crafter bwahahahaha. Master deconstructor is better.

Edit: I am also a "master crafter" and I am so casual as they get. It's not even an achievement. It's one of the laziest crafting systems of any mmo,

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

After homestead the release of master writs people all of a sudden realize the value in master crafters? Sounds like your wanting to short cut the process that not many people have done....9 traits take a long time for a reason keep it the way it is.

case in point.

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

No. It's more analogous to someone who spent years getting the certification they needed in order to get gainful employment in their chosen field (which doesn't have a lot of paying jobs to begin with), and they don't want the certification to become a quick rubber stamp that requires no time/effort to get because then there'll be too many people competing for too few jobs.

You need to recognize that allowing traits to be researched quickly would actively be taking away one of the ways dedicated master crafters have of making gold. It's not just a silly "I suffered so other people should suffer" mentality, it's something that is actively bad for the people who already put in the time.

Also, as I've already mentioned, the trait research time is the only thing stopping people like me from getting our armies of alts to do tons of writs and have great chances of getting tons of master writs. I mean I already have 8 characters doing max-level writs per day - if I could easily and quickly research traits to increase my chances of having master writs drop I'd increase that to 28 characters.

That would have 2 effects: first the master writ market would be saturated, and those people who put in a ton of time to get their 1 character to be a master crafter would lose their ability to make a decent amount of gold off the master writs they get. Second, the master writ drop rates would get reduced to make up for everyone with lots of alts getting master writ vouchers far quicker than intended. Do you want those things to happen?

oh bullcrap.

speeding up research doesn't equate it to instant master crafter. it equates to people actualy becoming master crafters in forseeable future, having it take OVER A YEAR? is insane.

Is it really so difficult for people to actually read the whole thread? It's only 3 pages long. It's not a big investment in your time, and it can save you from looking foolish.

As I've said multiple times (which you could have found out if you had bothered to read the thread), a moderate decrease in research time wouldn't be a problem. What OP was originally asking for was a major decrease in research time, which would have the effects I noted above. In fact, you were also asking for the rates to be halved at a minimum, which would lead to exactly what I described.

Linaleah wrote: »

moreover. having more master writs out there would be beneficial, because then they would actualy be more accessible to more people. unlike real life training, you are not actualy master at anything other then "I have played this game longer then other people" thing.

*facepalm*

Come back when you have some idea about MMO economies. Or when you realize that more master writs dropping than ZOS intended means they'd nerf the drop rate, and then everyone who didn't have an army of master crafter alts would be getting screwed over.

Like I've said, if ZOS did something as drastic and stupid as halving research times, I would be the one to benefit the most, along with anyone else with as many alts as me (12 characters at 50 in every craft skill, 16 more well on the way to it - if trait research didn't take so long they'd all be master crafters instead of just 1 having 9 traits in everything, and 2 others having 9 traits in just a single craft each). And it would screw over everyone else. Excuse me if I actually like to look at the big picture rather than just what would be the greatest benefit to me personally.

I understand in game economies just fine. i also understand that current ESO economy is oligarchy where the few keep the stranglehold on aforementioned economy vie combination of monopoly through guild traders and just sheer headstart they got on everything else, including crafting. leaving majority of the players unable to afford much through in game means and unable to earn it in any reasonable time because the catch up mechanics only extend as far as slightly faster rate of earning champion points... up to a point, but nowhere else.

this is not good for long term health of the game. even just halving the rate of time it takes to research - will STILL require at least half a year. which is a VERY long term commitment. but at least its more of a visible goal. but please, do keep holding on to your virtual monopoly.

Linaleah wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

After homestead the release of master writs people all of a sudden realize the value in master crafters? Sounds like your wanting to short cut the process that not many people have done....9 traits take a long time for a reason keep it the way it is.

case in point.

UrQuan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

unfortunately, all the people who had to go through that particular annoyance (and yes, its what it is - an annoyance at this point) are far to bitter to want newer players to have better time catching up.

its the whole "walked up hill, in a snow, both ways, barefoot" mentality. I have suffered, now you should suffer as well.

No. It's more analogous to someone who spent years getting the certification they needed in order to get gainful employment in their chosen field (which doesn't have a lot of paying jobs to begin with), and they don't want the certification to become a quick rubber stamp that requires no time/effort to get because then there'll be too many people competing for too few jobs.

You need to recognize that allowing traits to be researched quickly would actively be taking away one of the ways dedicated master crafters have of making gold. It's not just a silly "I suffered so other people should suffer" mentality, it's something that is actively bad for the people who already put in the time.

Also, as I've already mentioned, the trait research time is the only thing stopping people like me from getting our armies of alts to do tons of writs and have great chances of getting tons of master writs. I mean I already have 8 characters doing max-level writs per day - if I could easily and quickly research traits to increase my chances of having master writs drop I'd increase that to 28 characters.

That would have 2 effects: first the master writ market would be saturated, and those people who put in a ton of time to get their 1 character to be a master crafter would lose their ability to make a decent amount of gold off the master writs they get. Second, the master writ drop rates would get reduced to make up for everyone with lots of alts getting master writ vouchers far quicker than intended. Do you want those things to happen?

oh bullcrap.

speeding up research doesn't equate it to instant master crafter. it equates to people actualy becoming master crafters in forseeable future, having it take OVER A YEAR? is insane.

Is it really so difficult for people to actually read the whole thread? It's only 3 pages long. It's not a big investment in your time, and it can save you from looking foolish.

As I've said multiple times (which you could have found out if you had bothered to read the thread), a moderate decrease in research time wouldn't be a problem. What OP was originally asking for was a major decrease in research time, which would have the effects I noted above. In fact, you were also asking for the rates to be halved at a minimum, which would lead to exactly what I described.

Linaleah wrote: »

moreover. having more master writs out there would be beneficial, because then they would actualy be more accessible to more people. unlike real life training, you are not actualy master at anything other then "I have played this game longer then other people" thing.

*facepalm*

Come back when you have some idea about MMO economies. Or when you realize that more master writs dropping than ZOS intended means they'd nerf the drop rate, and then everyone who didn't have an army of master crafter alts would be getting screwed over.

Like I've said, if ZOS did something as drastic and stupid as halving research times, I would be the one to benefit the most, along with anyone else with as many alts as me (12 characters at 50 in every craft skill, 16 more well on the way to it - if trait research didn't take so long they'd all be master crafters instead of just 1 having 9 traits in everything, and 2 others having 9 traits in just a single craft each). And it would screw over everyone else. Excuse me if I actually like to look at the big picture rather than just what would be the greatest benefit to me personally.

I understand in game economies just fine. i also understand that current ESO economy is oligarchy where the few keep the stranglehold on aforementioned economy vie combination of monopoly through guild traders and just sheer headstart they got on everything else, including crafting. leaving majority of the players unable to afford much through in game means and unable to earn it in any reasonable time because the catch up mechanics only extend as far as slightly faster rate of earning champion points... up to a point, but nowhere else.

this is not good for long term health of the game. even just halving the rate of time it takes to research - will STILL require at least half a year. which is a VERY long term commitment. but at least its more of a visible goal. but please, do keep holding on to your virtual monopoly.

Once again, I strongly urge you to actually read the thread. The fact that you keep on failing to do so means that you keep saying things that are completely nonsensical. Like me "holding on to my virtual monopoly," when I've said flat-out that I would be the one to benefit the most from a significant reduction in research times (I'd be able to quickly go from 1 master crafter to 28 of them, drastically increasing my master writ drops), and that I don't make any gold at all from crafting because I choose not to ever sell my crafting services. It makes it literally impossible to take anything you say seriously.

9 Trait is only for the true crafters, so it doesnt need to be easy or fast!

Of course no, we wanted them like this, its meant to keep you playing. Offline progression is one of the most under-rated features in the MMORPG genre, it keeps player playing like a bee on honey. Sad to say though Zen dropped the ball on this, they didnt take full advantage of offline progression.

You people should be EVE players.

Imagine if you were waiting a year to be able to use an item.