With this double AP- potential problems

caeliusstarbreaker

You realize that trying to increase the density, by doubling the AP so that you can stress test server without CP is just going to lead to people trading outposts/resources much to the effect of the BM resource catastrophe and partially skew your findings, arguably in favor of your your proposed hypothesis... Which in turn, is a radical move to alleviate server calculations to improve performance in a game that's very fabric has changed so much, that the simple removal of CP would erase the balance that you so ardently pushed for in this current patch?

Solariken

Agreed, it would be far better to just double AP from player kills.

Rickter

you are right. the potential to cash in is there.

But i think the hope is that this promotion will call enough players into Cyrodiil that the ability to ap farm blatantly on a low pop server wont be able to occur much like it was pointed out that it doesnt happen on servers like TF.

booksmcread

Solariken wrote: »

Agreed, it would be far better to just double AP from player kills.

This is the best solution for their test, make the double AP bonus only apply to player kills. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

asneakybanana

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

PandaIsAPotato

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Remove CP, reintroduce softcaps, individual balancing if/when required, and the game is balanced. The route they keep going just imbalances the game further and one we reach enough CP that they need to give us another blanket battle spirit damage nerf they'll break more things.

kaithuzar

Have any of you bothered playing on Azuras star???
At the moment, it's lag free, people aren't ridiculously overpowered, the combat balance feels generally better.

Personally I don't want to give up my cp points for pvp, but I do think they should be completely reworked to allow for "building for sustain" to be "a thing" again, rather than the current meta of "oh cp takes care of my resources so I can build purely for damage".

ExcaliburESO

What they want to do is to do stress test and eveyone being on same spot will make it work! Double AP for kills its a joke so most of the time i will get 40 ap instead of 20 cuz ppl just gonna stay at alessia bridge and wipe wipe wipe. I wont even bother coming far better running in bethnik and making urself some gold.

-Forever yours Lord Daryn Redoran

Asgari

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Remove CP, reintroduce softcaps, individual balancing if/when required, and the game is balanced. The route they keep going just imbalances the game further and one we reach enough CP that they need to give us another blanket battle spirit damage nerf they'll break more things.

As much as I love you I have to disagree. You can't remove cp and introduce soft caps without changing how ult is gained and adjusting almost every skill and passive in the game. Almost every skill has been adjusted in one way or another because of the cp system.

Forcing players to spread out cp more and changing how the top cp passives works is the way they need to go. Not removing cp.

They need to adjust the sustain from heavy armor and boost the resistances of light and medium. Some other basic changes would be making cast time skills that are interuptable cost the resource at the time of the cast and not at the end.

And back to the previous point of spreading out cp if you spread out things like roll dodge and break free it's makes users decide which they value more.

caeliusstarbreaker

kaithuzar wrote: »

Have any of you bothered playing on Azuras star???
At the moment, it's lag free, people aren't ridiculously overpowered, the combat balance feels generally better.

Personally I don't want to give up my cp points for pvp, but I do think they should be completely reworked to allow for "building for sustain" to be "a thing" again, rather than the current meta of "oh cp takes care of my resources so I can build purely for damage".

The only reason AZ is lag free is less of a population density and people die before the server has to calculate anything. They need to streamline the calculations and remove unnecessary cp passives.

Pallio

Another week of ignoring PvE problems, seems like a trend going forward.

asneakybanana

kaithuzar wrote: »

Have any of you bothered playing on Azuras star???
At the moment, it's lag free, people aren't ridiculously overpowered, the combat balance feels generally better.

Personally I don't want to give up my cp points for pvp, but I do think they should be completely reworked to allow for "building for sustain" to be "a thing" again, rather than the current meta of "oh cp takes care of my resources so I can build purely for damage".

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.


Also azuras imo is more unbalanced than TF right now lol.

tonemd

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

The game's performance is terrible in its current state.This experiment is needed to determine if there is a true correlations to CP and performance. Removing CP and only CP is a good first step.

Invisible player/skills, single digit frame rates and infinite load screens can only be fun for so long, even if you think the game is balanced.

Dreyloch

Pallio wrote: »

Another week of ignoring PvE problems, seems like a trend going forward.

And what problems would those be? I'm just curious. How many problems have come up for PvE that got hotfixed within a day or so? How many PvP problems have been fixed, re-fixed, then fixed again...only to come back a few patches later?

I'm sorry if your wedding dress doesn't fit your Orc body perfectly. I'm sorry cheaters wanna find a way to get vMoL achievements for stupid house items or w/e they're after. I'm sorry you feel cosmetic graphical glitches break your "immersion". This is the PvP forum. Please take yourself to the proper area.

Kartalin

Pallio wrote: »

Another week of ignoring PvE problems, seems like a trend going forward.

Get back to us when they've mostly ignored PvE for years

Asgari

BTW those saying AZ doesn't lag it does. When AZ is locked and they have big fights it lags. This game has always lagged before CP.

PenguinInACan

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

BTW those saying AZ doesn't lag it does. When AZ is locked and they have big fights it lags. This game has always lagged before CP.

But our lag is better. I don't think there can be a realistic expectation of no lag PvP anymore. Just...better managed.

Ackwalan

Outpost swapping only works on an empty server. On a server that is full, or even 2 bar population, that outpost would get bombed.

PandaIsAPotato

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Remove CP, reintroduce softcaps, individual balancing if/when required, and the game is balanced. The route they keep going just imbalances the game further and one we reach enough CP that they need to give us another blanket battle spirit damage nerf they'll break more things.

As much as I love you I have to disagree. You can't remove cp and introduce soft caps without changing how ult is gained and adjusting almost every skill and passive in the game. Almost every skill has been adjusted in one way or another because of the cp system.

Forcing players to spread out cp more and changing how the top cp passives works is the way they need to go. Not removing cp.

They need to adjust the sustain from heavy armor and boost the resistances of light and medium. Some other basic changes would be making cast time skills that are interuptable cost the resource at the time of the cast and not at the end.

And back to the previous point of spreading out cp if you spread out things like roll dodge and break free it's makes users decide which they value more.

Remove CP. Reintroduce softcaps. Panda wants old game back, not new game, new game gey. Gib old game. U understand Asgari, y u make me type long sentences. Am just panda.

Satiar

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

kevlarto_ESO

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Remove CP, reintroduce softcaps, individual balancing if/when required, and the game is balanced. The route they keep going just imbalances the game further and one we reach enough CP that they need to give us another blanket battle spirit damage nerf they'll break more things.

This^^^ I don't why they won't try bringing back soft and hard caps they had so much more variety and options, I hope they get the pvp feeling like mmo combat again, and not call of duty, this game is no where near balanced, but hard to tell whats not a balance problem and what's a cheating problems these days, you should not be a high dps tank like beast, infinite resource build allowed, that is not mmo combat and just not natural.

What ever ZOS does always has some disastrous side effects it seems, this is one of the most exploitive and abuse of any edge you can get player base I have ever seen in my many years of gaming, but it is only for a week and if they get some good data which leads to long term better play for everyone, I will be happy.

Humphie

asneakybanana wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Have any of you bothered playing on Azuras star???
At the moment, it's lag free, people aren't ridiculously overpowered, the combat balance feels generally better.

Personally I don't want to give up my cp points for pvp, but I do think they should be completely reworked to allow for "building for sustain" to be "a thing" again, rather than the current meta of "oh cp takes care of my resources so I can build purely for damage".

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.


Also azuras imo is more unbalanced than TF right now lol.

That's a pretty arrogant thing to say. Sorry, no offense meant.

PandaIsAPotato

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Remove CP, reintroduce softcaps, individual balancing if/when required, and the game is balanced. The route they keep going just imbalances the game further and one we reach enough CP that they need to give us another blanket battle spirit damage nerf they'll break more things.

This^^^ I don't why they won't try bringing back soft and hard caps they had so much more variety and options, I hope they get the pvp feeling like mmo combat again, and not call of duty, this game is no where near balanced, but hard to tell whats not a balance problem and what's a cheating problems these days, you should not be a high dps tank like beast, infinite resource build allowed, that is not mmo combat and just not natural.

What ever ZOS does always has some disastrous side effects it seems, this is one of the most exploitive and abuse of any edge you can get player base I have ever seen in my many years of gaming, but it is only for a week and if they get some good data which leads to long term better play for everyone, I will be happy.

Softcaps kept any power creep the game would've had in balance but the introduction of CP and removal of softcaps broke that. It was easily visible in 1.6 when you could one shot people with virtually any ability in game if you tried hard enough, then they gave us a blanket battle spirit nerf which completely destroyed the DK class and rendered other things non-functional or below average.

In the next year or so when we reach another point that CP has creeped up to that point again the most likely outcome with ZoS being ZoS is yet another blanket battle spirit change which will undoubtedly break whatever is in place then. Blankets and Band Aids do not work when you need surgical precision to fix problems, but that's how ZoS does things. They're like the school nurses everyone jokes about? "Oh you have a broken arm and internal bleeding? Here's an ice pack and a band aid, now lie down for a few minutes and it'll go away."

I just want across the board balance, but we dropped the ball on that many patches ago and it's just a cycle of exploits bugs and metas now.

NightbladeMechanics

Pallio wrote: »

Another week of ignoring PvE problems, seems like a trend going forward.

Nice troll m8.

SHADOW2KK

Pallio wrote: »

Another week of ignoring PvE problems, seems like a trend going forward.

Shrugs, this is PvP forums, unlike care bear crap, our issues pretty much never get fixed.

Chuga_Rei

Sneaky I agree with a lot of what you say but im going to disagree here.


In CP campaign I have a distinct advantage over anyone not max CP regardless of skill level.

Now does that mean I think the average player in AZ is superior to another server? Nope, sure dont. If anything I would agree that overall the CP campaigns tend to house the better players and more "competitive groups".

Now, with that being said a few observations and opinions of mine.

-Lack of CP and sustain in AZ make 1vX much more difficult. When I play solo in AZ i have to sacrifice out the wazoo if I want to do damage and manage any sort of 1vX burst as a magicka templar to allow me to actually finish anyone im fighting

-when i build for group/support in non cp i actually have to build as im supporting. not just throw a ability or 2 on my bar and call it a day since i can drop a repent on the 15 corpses i just turned into crispy critters with my destro ult.

-I think CP allows builds to be pushed to a new "max" along with that comes burst you dont see in AZ, so to an extent I do think azuras was a safe space from some of the meta for some

-As emperor in both campaigns, emperor in azuras is fun, and you can build some fun broken builds, but overall CP emp is still and will be the closest thing to godmode that i can think of since being emp before softcaps.

-Competitive PvP in NA is lacking. Lets be honest with each other, most the top players know each other on first name basis after what is it...3 years now? and not since the days of NM(hnnnngh that bias) has there been true competition. It died with the insane lag and when our better half decided to leave the game(guilds of all factions)

-Im hoping arena brings back competitive pvp. It will give me an excuse to do something other than wear stupid gimmick sets and try and toy around with stuff in an effect to bring back the "fun" aspect of competition. Those sweaty palms you got after a crazy fight against your rival, hearing your gm shout "OH ***** its _______(insert opposite faction nemesis guild) and calms getting dead sil;ent, and my will to actually want to be thought of as a "good" player. Now that will is dead. I really dont care how many times you kill me because more often than not im wearing a set i crafted that looks cool over min-maxing.

with that all said here is my point. You have always been a great player, back when the sea of "greats" had many more fish. You also have always adapted to the meta, regardless of the change. I have no doubt you will, and if this fixes the lag, the game will not just become more enjoyable for me, and you, it will bring in lots of new blood who avoided the crappy lag as well as maybe some old faces.

Sorry for the wall of text everyone, I just wanted to vent. but if it makes it better I just want you to consider im extremely handsome IRL and used to people paying attention when I ramble.

Chillmatic

asneakybanana wrote: »

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.

Lol. Yea TF is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when they're feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that CP is a fantastic crutch to cover poor decision making and resource management. As it is TF should only be for people at cp cap as a place to ping-pong between objectives playing 'who has the bigger zerg?'. When I see cp cap people going there to roll around a tree spamming vigor until they find someone with 400 less cp to 2 shot, or run around in a ball steamrolling pugs it puts a negative mark towards them in my book.

Does this work, too?

Earendal

Chillmatic wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.

Lol. Yea TF is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when they're feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that CP is a fantastic crutch to cover poor decision making and resource management. As it is TF should only be for people at cp cap as a place to ping-pong between objectives playing 'who has the bigger zerg?'. When I see cp cap people going there to roll around a tree spamming vigor until they find someone with 400 less cp to 2 shot, or run around in a ball steamrolling pugs it puts a negative mark towards them in my book.

Does this work, too?

On a scale of one to iskra, how triggered are you?

PandaIsAPotato

Chillmatic wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.

Lol. Yea TF is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when they're feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that CP is a fantastic crutch to cover poor decision making and resource management. As it is TF should only be for people at cp cap as a place to ping-pong between objectives playing 'who has the bigger zerg?'. When I see cp cap people going there to roll around a tree spamming vigor until they find someone with 400 less cp to 2 shot, or run around in a ball steamrolling pugs it puts a negative mark towards them in my book.

Does this work, too?

Earendal wrote: »

Chillmatic wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.

Lol. Yea TF is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when they're feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that CP is a fantastic crutch to cover poor decision making and resource management. As it is TF should only be for people at cp cap as a place to ping-pong between objectives playing 'who has the bigger zerg?'. When I see cp cap people going there to roll around a tree spamming vigor until they find someone with 400 less cp to 2 shot, or run around in a ball steamrolling pugs it puts a negative mark towards them in my book.

Does this work, too?

On a scale of one to iskra, how triggered are you?

He's Potato Cannon, definitely Potato Cannon. Or Sarenvog.

Chillmatic

Earendal wrote: »

On a scale of one to iskra, how triggered are you?

Just pointing out that generalizations made about people who enjoy the playstyle of Azura's can be done to the Trueflame playstyle as well. Acting like new players are exclusive to every server besides Trueflame is idiotic. This also coming from someone who at worst is of equal CP and at best hundreds of CP ahead of your competition makes the whole point comes across as hypocritical.

I'm actually quite the opposite of triggered... I'm among the many people who are looking forward to seeing TF players without CP. That is, those of you not threatening to quit or just take the week off.

asneakybanana

Chillmatic wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Lol. Yea azuras is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when theyre feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that there are new players far worse than them. As it is AZ should have only be for people below cp cap as a place between bwb and trueflame for new players. When I see cp cap people going there to farm ap and emp it puts a negative mark towards them n my book.

Lol. Yea TF is "fun", and by fun its a safe space for people to go when they're feeling like a bad and need to remind themselves that CP is a fantastic crutch to cover poor decision making and resource management. As it is TF should only be for people at cp cap as a place to ping-pong between objectives playing 'who has the bigger zerg?'. When I see cp cap people going there to roll around a tree spamming vigor until they find someone with 400 less cp to 2 shot, or run around in a ball steamrolling pugs it puts a negative mark towards them in my book.

Does this work, too?

Ex Dee that was a great comment good sir. And im saying from personal experience that azuras is easy. Ive played my stamplar and my mag sorc there and on both I find it far easier to 1vX on azuras. I run pretty much the same builds for both classes on cp and no cp camps with the exception of a regen glyph or two. And i would think that maybe im just op without cp but when i actually find players from vet campaigns such as tertiary meat or Fengrush's group. But fighting the same 2 decent groups over and over again and 1vxing pugs gets boring to me in no time.

Oh and by the way you describe trueflame it seems like maybe youre a bit triggered about getting farmed there by decent players. If you find the fights on azuras more balanced and fair than trueflame, maybe you're just bad because thats the only place you can get a kill.