With this double AP- potential problems

asneakybanana

Satiar wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

hmmm lets see 1 dimensional meta, 1.0 0 cost bats, 1.0-1.4 ground oils everywhere, 1.1-1.5 impulse spam trains, 1.2? DKs spammed frag shields to 1 shot zergs, 1.4-1.5 people spammed bugged WoE on zergs to 1 shot them, 1.6 meteor spam and 1 shot leaps and barrier spam, 2.1-2.2 barrier spam, 2.3 prox bomb builds w/ VD everywhere, 2.3-present negate spam, 2.4-2.5 no clue as I didnt really pvp but bomb blade was still pretty 1 dimensional, 2.6-2.7 destro spam

This game is literally built on 1 dimensional play, back in 1.6 and 2.1 how many of you guys were just perma spamming steel tornado? How many barriers were you guys running until it got nerfed? Even now its just a matter of popping 3 healing ults when you get bombed. Like game has never been anything more than 1 dimensional and if you try to tell yourselves different you have some seriously rose colored glasses. Everyone has always equipped their highest dmg aoe spammable and just used it in conjuction w/ combat frenzy to spam ultimates. This has been made more effective with VD as not only do you get the ultimate return but you also get a huge dmg spike for getting a KB. Whether you have CPs or not that won't change how 1 dimensional the game is.

Chillmatic

asneakybanana wrote: »

Ex Dee that was a great comment good sir. And im saying from personal experience that azuras is easy. Ive played my stamplar and my mag sorc there and on both I find it far easier to 1vX on azuras. I run pretty much the same builds for both classes on cp and no cp camps with the exception of a regen glyph or two. And i would think that maybe im just op without cp but when i actually find players from vet campaigns such as tertiary meat or Fengrush's group. But fighting the same 2 decent groups over and over again and 1vxing pugs gets boring to me in no time.

As the skilled player that you are I'm sure you would have an easier time closing kills on Azura's, primarily because your pressure isn't immediately canceled by a single breath of life or vigor/rally. Unlike you, I'm not saying that Trueflame players are bad. I'm aware that many top players and guilds play there and have some great fights... I'm just also saying that there are plenty of new players running around in Trueflame as well, and your advantage over them is incredibly higher than the advantage someone on Azura's would have.

asneakybanana wrote: »

Oh and by the way you describe trueflame it seems like maybe youre a bit triggered about getting farmed there by decent players. If you find the fights on azuras more balanced and fair than trueflame, maybe you're just bad because thats the only place you can get a kill.

Go ahead and call people triggered and bad when they disagree with you, it just makes you come across like a 14 year old. While I am reasonably new and am far from what I would consider a highly skilled player in this game, I was lucky enough to get picked up by one of the Azura's groups you mentioned so that's who I primarily play with.

That, and not enjoying constant lag and 40+ man zergs is why I don't spend much time on TF.

Satiar

asneakybanana wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

hmmm lets see 1 dimensional meta, 1.0 0 cost bats, 1.0-1.4 ground oils everywhere, 1.1-1.5 impulse spam trains, 1.2? DKs spammed frag shields to 1 shot zergs, 1.4-1.5 people spammed bugged WoE on zergs to 1 shot them, 1.6 meteor spam and 1 shot leaps and barrier spam, 2.1-2.2 barrier spam, 2.3 prox bomb builds w/ VD everywhere, 2.3-present negate spam, 2.4-2.5 no clue as I didnt really pvp but bomb blade was still pretty 1 dimensional, 2.6-2.7 destro spam

This game is literally built on 1 dimensional play, back in 1.6 and 2.1 how many of you guys were just perma spamming steel tornado? How many barriers were you guys running until it got nerfed? Even now its just a matter of popping 3 healing ults when you get bombed. Like game has never been anything more than 1 dimensional and if you try to tell yourselves different you have some seriously rose colored glasses. Everyone has always equipped their highest dmg aoe spammable and just used it in conjuction w/ combat frenzy to spam ultimates. This has been made more effective with VD as not only do you get the ultimate return but you also get a huge dmg spike for getting a KB. Whether you have CPs or not that won't change how 1 dimensional the game is.

Did we run steel tornado? Coordinated Prox bombs? Barriers? Sure. We also ran novas and negates and bats and meteor and DKS. The joke for quite a while was that if our opponents figured out negates we'd be screwed, because we'd consistently tank one-dimensional DPS bombs by stacking mitigation Ults and abilities (like turn undead). It was very effective vs groups that just wanted to stack up on high DPS Ults and spam them.

ZoS continued to dumb the game down to the point that I don't even need to coordinate prox dets. It's literally "destro group 1, negate 1"! It is hands down the dumbest meta we've ever had, lowest skill required, highest damage ever. I know you've always gravitated towards high burst Ults so it's natural you'd enjoy this meta--I have a few in VE who feel the same--but I think that's blinded you to how one-dimensional this game has become. It was never super great, but it was better. Say what you will for old metas, but hell! At least you had to organize and rotate barriers, sustain DPS was viable instead of pure ult burst, negate rotations had skill and timing involved, etc. The "press R" meta we have now is objectively dumb

Also, since you asked, we didn't run more than 5 barriers as a rule. Normally 3-4. People obsessed on barriers while a large part of the combo was that we constantly fought inside layers of Turn Undead, Nova, negate and Standard. Mixing in these Ults was highly effective, and I miss the variety.

No_True_Scotsman

asneakybanana wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

hmmm lets see 1 dimensional meta, 1.0 0 cost bats, 1.0-1.4 ground oils everywhere, 1.1-1.5 impulse spam trains, 1.2? DKs spammed frag shields to 1 shot zergs, 1.4-1.5 people spammed bugged WoE on zergs to 1 shot them, 1.6 meteor spam and 1 shot leaps and barrier spam, 2.1-2.2 barrier spam, 2.3 prox bomb builds w/ VD everywhere, 2.3-present negate spam, 2.4-2.5 no clue as I didnt really pvp but bomb blade was still pretty 1 dimensional, 2.6-2.7 destro spam

This game is literally built on 1 dimensional play, back in 1.6 and 2.1 how many of you guys were just perma spamming steel tornado (1)? How many barriers were you guys running until it got nerfed (2)? Even now its just a matter of popping 3 healing ults when you get bombed. Like game has never been anything more than 1 dimensional and if you try to tell yourselves different you have some seriously rose colored glasses. Everyone has always equipped their highest dmg aoe spammable (3) and just used it in conjuction w/ combat frenzy to spam ultimates. This has been made more effective with VD as not only do you get the ultimate return but you also get a huge dmg spike for getting a KB. Whether you have CPs or not that won't change how 1 dimensional the game is.

(1) About half of the DPS in group usually. Sometimes it was more, sometimes it was less.

(2) No more than 4, otherwise we started getting redundant barriers. I think we had 5 once.

(3) True. The overly one-dimensional aspect of the current "meta" is less the "AoE's and ulti's in X location" philosophy of combat which has basically been here since day one. It's more about character building. Even clutch DPS builds in previous patches didn't hyper focus on damage; they needed some measure of resource sustain and durability to be viable. Some patches -- particularly before 1.6 -- emphasized this more than others. These days, clutch DPS goes balls to the walls damage or they're not clutch DPS. It's not good or bad per se ... just one dimensional. I'm pretty sure this is what Steve means.

asneakybanana

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

hmmm lets see 1 dimensional meta, 1.0 0 cost bats, 1.0-1.4 ground oils everywhere, 1.1-1.5 impulse spam trains, 1.2? DKs spammed frag shields to 1 shot zergs, 1.4-1.5 people spammed bugged WoE on zergs to 1 shot them, 1.6 meteor spam and 1 shot leaps and barrier spam, 2.1-2.2 barrier spam, 2.3 prox bomb builds w/ VD everywhere, 2.3-present negate spam, 2.4-2.5 no clue as I didnt really pvp but bomb blade was still pretty 1 dimensional, 2.6-2.7 destro spam

This game is literally built on 1 dimensional play, back in 1.6 and 2.1 how many of you guys were just perma spamming steel tornado (1)? How many barriers were you guys running until it got nerfed (2)? Even now its just a matter of popping 3 healing ults when you get bombed. Like game has never been anything more than 1 dimensional and if you try to tell yourselves different you have some seriously rose colored glasses. Everyone has always equipped their highest dmg aoe spammable (3) and just used it in conjuction w/ combat frenzy to spam ultimates. This has been made more effective with VD as not only do you get the ultimate return but you also get a huge dmg spike for getting a KB. Whether you have CPs or not that won't change how 1 dimensional the game is.

(1) About half of the DPS in group usually. Sometimes it was more, sometimes it was less.

(2) No more than 4, otherwise we started getting redundant barriers. I think we had 5 once.

(3) True. The overly one-dimensional aspect of the current "meta" is less the "AoE's and ulti's in X location" philosophy of combat which has basically been here since day one. It's more about character building. Even clutch DPS builds in previous patches didn't hyper focus on damage; they needed some measure of resource sustain and durability to be viable. Some patches -- particularly before 1.6 -- emphasized this more than others. These days, clutch DPS goes balls to the walls damage or they're not clutch DPS. It's not good or bad per se ... just one dimensional. I'm pretty sure this is what Steve means.

I havent run a regen set since pre 1.6 other than lich for my sorc in solo spec. My mag dk ran 4 martial knowledge, 2 valkyn, 2 cyrodiils light, 3 potentates and 2 torugs with apprentice mundus on 1.6. My stamplar was in his pve spec in 2.1. In 2.2 my sorc wore 5 lich, 4 overwhelming surge, 2 engine guardian, 3 willpower for a solo build, 2.3-2.5 my nb wore 5 clever alch, 3 willpower, 5 vd i did use the atro mundus tho. This 2.6-2.7 my nb wears 5 clever. 2 grothdarr, 5 vd with shadow mundus. I agree that pre 1.6 made you axtually think about sustain more than post 1.6 but that isnt because of cp its because of the way everything scales now. Even without cp it is much easiér to sustain now than it was back in 1.5. If we really want to balance the game just revert it back to 1.5 with softcaps and dynamic ult but with blockade fixed. It would be incredibly interesting to see how the game is with all the balancing thats been done with 1.5 ult and soft caps. Would love to see that for a week instead.

Satiar

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless. The game is almost balanced in it's current state, a slight adjustment of stealth dmg/stun and a slight nerf to heavy armor sustain and i would go out on a limb and say the game is balanced-ish. Now to throw all of that away by just removing cps and not doing any additional balancing would seem like a lot of wasted effort from zos to me.

Your thoughts aren't worthless, but the fact that you think damage is fine and sustain needs reduction in the most bursty, one-dimensional meta we've ever had is why people think you're biased.

hmmm lets see 1 dimensional meta, 1.0 0 cost bats, 1.0-1.4 ground oils everywhere, 1.1-1.5 impulse spam trains, 1.2? DKs spammed frag shields to 1 shot zergs, 1.4-1.5 people spammed bugged WoE on zergs to 1 shot them, 1.6 meteor spam and 1 shot leaps and barrier spam, 2.1-2.2 barrier spam, 2.3 prox bomb builds w/ VD everywhere, 2.3-present negate spam, 2.4-2.5 no clue as I didnt really pvp but bomb blade was still pretty 1 dimensional, 2.6-2.7 destro spam

This game is literally built on 1 dimensional play, back in 1.6 and 2.1 how many of you guys were just perma spamming steel tornado (1)? How many barriers were you guys running until it got nerfed (2)? Even now its just a matter of popping 3 healing ults when you get bombed. Like game has never been anything more than 1 dimensional and if you try to tell yourselves different you have some seriously rose colored glasses. Everyone has always equipped their highest dmg aoe spammable (3) and just used it in conjuction w/ combat frenzy to spam ultimates. This has been made more effective with VD as not only do you get the ultimate return but you also get a huge dmg spike for getting a KB. Whether you have CPs or not that won't change how 1 dimensional the game is.

(1) About half of the DPS in group usually. Sometimes it was more, sometimes it was less.

(2) No more than 4, otherwise we started getting redundant barriers. I think we had 5 once.

(3) True. The overly one-dimensional aspect of the current "meta" is less the "AoE's and ulti's in X location" philosophy of combat which has basically been here since day one. It's more about character building. Even clutch DPS builds in previous patches didn't hyper focus on damage; they needed some measure of resource sustain and durability to be viable. Some patches -- particularly before 1.6 -- emphasized this more than others. These days, clutch DPS goes balls to the walls damage or they're not clutch DPS. It's not good or bad per se ... just one dimensional. I'm pretty sure this is what Steve means.

Mostly. I dislike the all or nothing kill or die PvP atm, and the lack of variety. Raid leading was never the height of mental exertion but it's more braindead than ever it has been.

That, and DPS is so high now that what used to take a team takes an individual. I also dislike that, though naturally those who pride themselves as being alpha DPS enjoy it.

loki547

asneakybanana wrote: »

@caeliusstarbreaker ty for posting this as it appears all anyone thinks my posts are about is trying to get destro ult buffed and the fact that i play an op build makes any of my thoughts worthless.

Any build is OP with 6+ pocket healers spamming Cleanse/heals on you bruh

frozywozy

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

Competitive PvP in NA is lacking. Lets be honest with each other, most the top players know each other on first name basis after what is it...3 years now? and not since the days of NM(hnnnngh that bias) has there been true competition. It died with the insane lag and when our better half decided to leave the game(guilds of all factions)

Dude, it doesn't mean that most of NM (your friends) left the game to play other bad mmos like BDO that TESO PVP is not competitive anymore. There is a ton of competition left between very experienced players on Trueflame. When Zenimax figures out how to fix the loading screens, the FPS memory leak and the latency (proc sets, cps, etc), it will be alot easier to see it happening. Maybe it's time for you to seek for a new guild instead of declaring that PVP is dead because all of NM decided to leave when servers became too laggy for their taste.

No_True_Scotsman

frozywozy wrote: »

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

Competitive PvP in NA is lacking. Lets be honest with each other, most the top players know each other on first name basis after what is it...3 years now? and not since the days of NM(hnnnngh that bias) has there been true competition. It died with the insane lag and when our better half decided to leave the game(guilds of all factions)

Dude, it doesn't mean that most of NM (your friends) left the game to play other bad mmos like BDO that TESO PVP is not competitive anymore. There is a ton of competition left between very experienced players on Trueflame. When Zenimax figures out how to fix the loading screens, the FPS memory leak and the latency (proc sets, cps, etc), it will be alot easier to see it happening. Maybe it's time for you to seek for a new guild instead of declaring that PVP is dead because all of NM decided to leave when servers became too laggy for their taste.

^ he's having flashbacks of getting farmed at Arrius mine

PandaIsAPotato

frozywozy wrote: »

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

Competitive PvP in NA is lacking. Lets be honest with each other, most the top players know each other on first name basis after what is it...3 years now? and not since the days of NM(hnnnngh that bias) has there been true competition. It died with the insane lag and when our better half decided to leave the game(guilds of all factions)

Dude, it doesn't mean that most of NM (your friends) left the game to play other bad mmos like BDO that TESO PVP is not competitive anymore. There is a ton of competition left between very experienced players on Trueflame. When Zenimax figures out how to fix the loading screens, the FPS memory leak and the latency (proc sets, cps, etc), it will be alot easier to see it happening. Maybe it's time for you to seek for a new guild instead of declaring that PVP is dead because all of NM decided to leave when servers became too laggy for their taste.

He's right though, bias aside, ESO's competitive PvP scene died within the first year of launch. If not sooner, the game has no reason to be competitive, everyone I know including some of the larger groups that run, play to *** around. Not to stroke egos on some imaginary competitive play field, it's dead Jim.

As for the actual PvP, that'll never die, to many Skyrim fanboys to milk into coming to the game to fill all the old players leaving.

Chuga_Rei

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

^ he's having flashbacks of getting farmed at Arrius mine[/quote]

Im sorry, I dont know who you are.


and to frozn, are you just looking to argue with me?

this is about me laughing at your use of ESO as tinder in tamriel.

Im sorry, I didnt mean to tilt you so.

and panda hit the nail on the head, I cant think of a "competitive" group who plays that I either I dont run with, or thinks they are the pinnacle of PvP prowess this game has every experienced, my group included.

Sure, there is competition, but lets be honest, as more changes and updates are released the meta becomes more and more focused on pleasing the masses and less on personal skill.

I play on TF all the time, when it isnt slide showing I see the same groups who have been killing each other for 2 years wiping it each other back and forth lol.

PenguinInACan

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

^ he's having flashbacks of getting farmed at Arrius mine

Im sorry, I dont know who you are.


and to frozn, are you just looking to argue with me?

this is about me laughing at your use of ESO as tinder in tamriel.

Im sorry, I didnt mean to tilt you so.

and panda hit the nail on the head, I cant think of a "competitive" group who plays that I either I dont run with, or thinks they are the pinnacle of PvP prowess this game has every experienced, my group included.

Sure, there is competition, but lets be honest, as more changes and updates are released the meta becomes more and more focused on pleasing the masses and less on personal skill.

I play on TF all the time, when it isnt slide showing I see the same groups who have been killing each other for 2 years wiping it each other back and forth lol.

Come stay on AZ. You can help me perfect my blinding flashes replacement build. I don't think I have run a "legit" PvP build that isn't comprised of the most off the wall sets in almost 2 years.

PandaIsAPotato

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

No_True_Scotsman wrote: »

^ he's having flashbacks of getting farmed at Arrius mine

Im sorry, I dont know who you are.


and to frozn, are you just looking to argue with me?

this is about me laughing at your use of ESO as tinder in tamriel.

Im sorry, I didnt mean to tilt you so.

and panda hit the nail on the head, I cant think of a "competitive" group who plays that I either I dont run with, or thinks they are the pinnacle of PvP prowess this game has every experienced, my group included.

Sure, there is competition, but lets be honest, as more changes and updates are released the meta becomes more and more focused on pleasing the masses and less on personal skill.

I play on TF all the time, when it isnt slide showing I see the same groups who have been killing each other for 2 years wiping it each other back and forth lol.

Come stay on AZ. You can help me perfect my blinding flashes replacement build. I don't think I have run a "legit" PvP build that isn't comprised of the most off the wall sets in almost 2 years.

No, you belong to me, and we belong to the little scaffolding hideaway at Alessia Lumbermill.

ishilb14_ESO

I couldn't have said it any better OP

RinaldoGandolphi

I

Chillmatic wrote: »

Earendal wrote: »

On a scale of one to iskra, how triggered are you?

Just pointing out that generalizations made about people who enjoy the playstyle of Azura's can be done to the Trueflame playstyle as well. Acting like new players are exclusive to every server besides Trueflame is idiotic. This also coming from someone who at worst is of equal CP and at best hundreds of CP ahead of your competition makes the whole point comes across as hypocritical.

I'm actually quite the opposite of triggered... I'm among the many people who are looking forward to seeing TF players without CP. That is, those of you not threatening to quit or just take the week off.

Yup, im looking forward to observing this as well.

My main reason for moving to Azura was lag and imbalance. Fights feel more balanced on Azura to me. Thats just my opinion. If someone thinks TF is better thats their right i guess. Im not taking sides with that either way. I understand some folks prefer CP, and im not going to try to argue that point with them.

i'd be in favor of removing CP if its proven thats why PVP lags the way it does. Im not so sure about any other reason though. As long as they keep a non-cp campaign, then i can simply play there, and those who want cp can play in TF. Im a very big advocate of choice. If its proved that CP is causing TF performance problems though, then i think you have to move in that direction.Performance is more important than almost everything else...if the game performs poorly and lags, then everthing else is moot because people are not enjoying the game. thats just how i see it, YMMV