Global Auction House yes or no?

Sharee

No

Cherryblossom wrote: »

As always you get those lucky minority who happen to be in guilds with Traders in prime locations, not wanting their monopoly to end.

For the record, i am not in any guild, at all. I don't sell stuff on the market, i don't have to. All the gold i need i get from selling junk loot i got while collecting alchemy ingredients. It gives me plenty to be able to afford the occasional gold temper for a new weapon. I'd like this to stay that way, instead of temper price skyrocketing because some dude decided to control the market.

Auros

No

I think the issue is actually addressing the two types of players:

1.) Roleplay, immersion, keep the game clean, lore, grind yourself, no push, enjoy. That is me.

2.) Competitive gameplay, I am absolutely ok with that!!! You need AH to be able to buy all top-notch to be able to compete with the others, and while some are still in school others are at work and have kids in addition to that so ....

let's be wise here: both should have their place in the game, MAYBE we need just 2 modes.

2h per day PvPer (mode) and casual, slow leveller maybe RP-er (mode 2)

I don't see why both can't be achieved withOUT AH. Just don't destroy the gameplay for the one, because of the other.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Sharee wrote: »

Right now, it is simply impossible to buy out all tempers since there are too many sources to effectively control. Thats why the TESO market system is good.

There are ONLY 77 Kiosks throughout Tamriel.

It would be beyond easy for an organised market domination guild to buy up all X, especially when guilds can have 500 players.

But this only tells half the story.

It is NOT "market cornering" that does most to drive prices up - it is supply/demand economics.

With 77 Kiosks there is a maximum number of Traders of 38,500.
And that assumes one thing we already know to be false - that no player is in more than one trade guild.

As E3 June 2016 Bethesda reported 7 Million ESO players. That means that just 0.5% of players have access to a trade kiosk.

But you could argue that 7 Million is Units Sold and not Active Accounts, fair enough I concede that point.

So let's do a couple of examples.

1) 75% Player retention = 5250000 Players = 0.73% of Players have access to a Trade Kiosk.
2) 50% Player Retention = 3500000 Players = 1.1% of Players have access to a Trade Kiosk.
3) 25% Player Retention = 1750000 Players = 2.2% of Players have access to a Trade Kiosk.
4) Just 1 Million Active Players = 3.8% of Players have access to a Trade Kiosk.

So the very "best" option for in-game economics is that just under 4% of players have access to a Trade Kiosk - not only does this drive commodity prices sky high, it also applies constant upward pressure on Kiosk Bids, further driving commodity prices, but worst of all means we can all stop worrying because the game likely won't be around in 12 months anyway.

Any of the options that have a playerbase sufficiently strong to allow the game to survive (as a financial entity) have such low Trader/Player ratios that we can guarantee that every commodity sold via a Kiosk is significantly higher priced than is anything like reasonable.

The ONLY people defending this system are the less than 5% of Players who actually benefit from it.

95%+ of Players are getting gouged every time they buy something.

All The Best

That Darn Argonian

ADarklore wrote: »

Amazing how people so quickly forget that ESO doesn't have internet access for online shopping like we do with Amazon, and how they forget before the internet we actually had to go from store to store if we wanted something specific. Yet, they somehow expect ancient Tamriel to have internet global access... and how that type of thing would definitely be immersion breaking in a lore-based RPG.

I would love an auction house, immersion-wise, it could be a large Guild Hall where you drop off or mail your products to, then you get cash in the mail back. The stewards would keep accurate inventories, maybe have troll guards to protect your wares...
Lore-wise, we have magicka. Who needs Internet when you can literally focus on the person of your choosing and travel to their nearest wayshrine to go see them within seconds.
Come to think of it, where's the post office in Tamriel? I send mail regularly even I'm alone in the middle of the desert...where was the passing postie?!

Auros

No

The thing here is that AH will be abused. That's human nature.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Auros wrote: »

The thing here is that AH will be abused. That's human nature.

We have some players in 4 Trade Guilds - this limits access to points of sale for other players.
We have some guilds buying 2nd Kiosks via "sister guilds".
We have some guilds BRIBING other guilds not to bid - so that can retain their corner on the market.

Trade Kiosks are already being abused - its human nature.


The ONLY way to bring freer trade to Tamriel is to massively increase how many traders can sell to market - and that means a massive overhaul of the current trade system (my preferred option) or an Auction House.

All The Best

Auros

No

OK then I understand there are actually 3rd type players : AH grinders well... I guess they also should have place in the game, but ... which MMO have the solution to that? Do ZOS need to do anything after all? I mean ... why invest in it? Looks like they don't have to... maybe it is just me: I'm easy going ... ignoring the sales at all and very happy with it!

"So, you have that OP new weapon, huh ... That don't impress me much. La-la-laa.."

Sharee

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Right now, it is simply impossible to buy out all tempers since there are too many sources to effectively control. Thats why the TESO market system is good.

There are ONLY 77 Kiosks throughout Tamriel.

It would be beyond easy for an organised market domination guild to buy up all X, especially when guilds can have 500 players.

Once. Yes.

But would they scour all 77 kiosks every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to make sure there isn't any temper posted recently that would be available for a price lower than theirs?

Because with a centralized AH, a market manipulator could do just that.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

The ONLY people defending this system are the less than 5% of Players who actually benefit from it.

Wrong. As i mentioned a few posts higher, i am not in any guilds at all, and i still defend this system, because i like to be able to buy tempers for the gold i actually earn during normal gameplay.

Besides, any one of the 7 million players can join a trading guild and have access to a guild store with 499 potential customers, so it's not like they absolutely depend on having a guild trader to sell anything. When the game launched, there weren't any kiosks to begin with, and the game didn't go belly-up because of it, go figure.

AnviOfVai

Yes

Trying to go around to find that one ring, or one piece of clothing at the right price can be sooo time consuming I don't get time to actually play the game haha! You end up jumping to every guild store at every location and then when you find one that you think, yes that's the best price I'll go back and buy it in mornhold, the time you get back its gone haha Luckily I have some very good guilds who have a good lot of stock in their banks that help out pvp players who need an item fast all you gotta do is put back in something at equal value or put gold in the bank instead.

Vipstaakki

No

As always, the community is extremely split up on this one. BUT, the majority still doesn't want AH.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Sharee wrote: »

But would they scour all 77 kiosks every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to make sure there isn't any temper posted recently that would be available for a price lower than theirs?

Because with a centralized AH, a market manipulator could do just that..

Quit with the fantasy scare stories.

It Has NEVER Happened.

All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Vipstaakki wrote: »

As always, the community is extremely split up on this one. BUT, the majority still doesn't want AH.

True.

But that only happens when the argument is AH or Kisok As Is.

When the argument is more nuanced, and proposes significant improvement to the current sysetm that has nearly always been the favoured option.

I don't want an AH either - but what I'd like is some form of reasoned and logical argument as to why an AH is bad, and all I get is made up stories about things that have never happened concerning how easy it is to rig the market in an AH.

It no more difficult to rig the market here, its just a little more time consuming.

All The Best

Sharee

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

But would they scour all 77 kiosks every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to make sure there isn't any temper posted recently that would be available for a price lower than theirs?

Because with a centralized AH, a market manipulator could do just that..

Quit with the fantasy scare stories.

It Has NEVER Happened.

Oh really.

JWKe wrote: »

The Auction house in WoW is just absolutely Toxic. The Price wars I've witnessed and sometimes been part of was just BAD.

Auros

No

@katiesmith12341 let's admit the true issue here: you love shopping

AnviOfVai

Yes

Auros wrote: »

@katiesmith12341 let's admit the true issue here: you love shopping

Quite so, I do love my shopping. However I do not like being stuck in loading screens whee trying to enter Mournhold or Reapers march You do not make me wait for things. I get it.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Sharee wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

But would they scour all 77 kiosks every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to make sure there isn't any temper posted recently that would be available for a price lower than theirs?

Because with a centralized AH, a market manipulator could do just that..

Quit with the fantasy scare stories.

It Has NEVER Happened.

Oh really.

JWKe wrote: »

The Auction house in WoW is just absolutely Toxic. The Price wars I've witnessed and sometimes been part of was just BAD.

Oh dear.

A Price War is NOT the same as what you are claiming will happen.

Oh, and by the way - Price Wars drive prices DOWN.

Really, stop talking about issues you clearly have no understanding of.

All The Best

Auros

No

@katiesmith12341

Sharee

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

But would they scour all 77 kiosks every day, every hour, every minute, every second, to make sure there isn't any temper posted recently that would be available for a price lower than theirs?

Because with a centralized AH, a market manipulator could do just that..

Quit with the fantasy scare stories.

It Has NEVER Happened.

Oh really.

JWKe wrote: »

The Auction house in WoW is just absolutely Toxic. The Price wars I've witnessed and sometimes been part of was just BAD.

Oh dear.

A Price War is NOT the same as what you are claiming will happen.

Oh, and by the way - Price Wars drive prices DOWN.

Really, stop talking about issues you clearly have no understanding of.

All The Best

Wow has been manipulated by gold sellers plenty of times: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SamSherwood/20140429/216367/MMO_Economy_Manipulation.php

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

"This turned into such a problem that Blizzard had to update their exploitation policy to restrain the amount of possible auction house farming."


It has NEVER happened before. Yeah right.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Sharee wrote: »

Wow has been manipulated by gold sellers plenty of times: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SamSherwood/20140429/216367/MMO_Economy_Manipulation.php

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

"This turned into such a problem that Blizzard had to update their exploitation policy to restrain the amount of possible auction house farming."


It has NEVER happened before. Yeah right.

Let's look at that article in more detail (because it is clear you haven't read it):

1) Yes, WOW and other MMORPGs markets have been manipulated.
2) But not one player buying ALL of one commodity in the way you described.
3) The article points out that WOW's economy is VERY RESILIENT to the kind of destructive manipulation you are claiming will happen.
4) The article discusses wealth-disparity among various player groups, and notes that 1% of players control 24% of the game gold - in ESO that would be the 1- 4% of players who have access to a Trade Kiosk.
5) The article goes on to reference an attempt in EVE to totally destroy the in-game economy and mentions an EVE DEV saying that that may actually be a good thing now and then, because it would rebalance the wealth-distribution.


The conclusion of the article is this:

In conclusion I think it is evident that the online economies are always going to be controlled and manipulated by groups players in order for them to reap the rewards and in-game benefits that come with it. In short it works like a real life system of supply and demand, price will always be fluctuate because of this and for the players who know how to control and play the economies will always benefit.

Which also supports my view that in a supply/demand economy restrictions on supply increases prices.

In ESO between 0.5% and 4% of the TOTAL playerbase have access to a Trade Kiosk - meaning that Supply is heavily restricted and therefore prices increase.

So what we actually have is an article that is actually supporting my view that something needs to be done about his disparity, not your view that things are fine - which you would have discovered for yourself had you actually read and, more importantly, understood the article.

Well done you.

All The Best

MornaBaine

Yes

At the very LEAST there needs to be a search function you can access from the bank, even if you then have to travel to the kiosk that has the item you want. An item search in general desperately needs to be implemented. I don't care how well you do selling with your various trade guilds... the current system is a nightmare for shoppers.

[Deleted User]

No

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sharee

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Wow has been manipulated by gold sellers plenty of times: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SamSherwood/20140429/216367/MMO_Economy_Manipulation.php

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

"This turned into such a problem that Blizzard had to update their exploitation policy to restrain the amount of possible auction house farming."


It has NEVER happened before. Yeah right.

Let's look at that article in more detail (because it is clear you haven't read it):

1) Yes, WOW and other MMORPGs markets have been manipulated.
2) But not one player buying ALL of one commodity in the way you described.

Let me use the quote again, bolded the important part this time

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

Buy out means buying ALL of the commodity.

And yes, the gold seller(that's not ONE player, that's a company btw) would buy all of the commodity, why not? Gold is infinite for a farmer, he clearly has a motivation to do so, and with a centralized AH, the means as well. You have no answer to this except for "it has never happened". Well, it has, and it will.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

3) The article points out that WOW's economy is VERY RESILIENT to the kind of destructive manipulation you are claiming will happen.

Too bad that won't help me. If i gain X gold from normal gameplay, and a gold farmer increases the price of the item i want to buy 10x, i won't be able to buy it anymore, because my kills wont suddenly start generating 10x more gold. No matter how resilient you think the economy is, i will be screwed (along with all other players who just want to have fun and aren't interested in playing the market game either)
To be able to afford the item, i would either have to spend 10X more time playing, or buy gold from the gold seller(which is his goal).

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

4) The article discusses wealth-disparity among various player groups, and notes that 1% of players control 24% of the game gold - in ESO that would be the 1- 4% of players who have access to a Trade Kiosk.
...
In ESO between 0.5% and 4% of the TOTAL playerbase have access to a Trade Kiosk - meaning that Supply is heavily restricted and therefore prices increase.

Trade kiosks are not needed to sell stuff in TESO. Even without one, any player in the game can have 2495 potential customers for his wares. And that does not even take keep guild traders into account.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Sharee wrote: »

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

Buy out means buying ALL of the commodity.

No, it doesn't.

In WoW, and many other games with an AH (which it is clear you have NEVER played) you list an item on the AH with upto two Values: 1) the Starting Bid (must always be present) and 2) The Buy Out price - the price someone can pay to buy the goods outright without waiting for the auction period to end.

Buy Out does NOT mean buy all of the commodity - it has NEVER meant that.

Like I said it is clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

All The Best

Sharee

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

"...these players will buy out opposing player’s auctions of relatively common, low priced materials and then re-post them with his farmed materials at extremely high prices."

Buy out means buying ALL of the commodity.

No, it doesn't.

In WoW, and many other games with an AH (which it is clear you have NEVER played) you list an item on the AH with upto two Values: 1) the Starting Bid (must always be present) and 2) The Buy Out price - the price someone can pay to buy the goods outright without waiting for the auction period to end.

Buy Out does NOT mean buy all of the commodity - it has NEVER meant that.

Like I said it is clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

I don't know whether i should laugh or cry. Dude. You claim you read the article. It is about market manipulation.

Why on earth would "these players" mentioned in the quote "buy out"(as in, buy-out price) and resell at "extremely high prices" if they at the same time left a good chunk of the same goods there at low prices? People would just buy the cheap ones! Unless you do this with ALL the goods, it makes no sense! Some market manipulation that would be, worthy of blizzard intervention!

/rollseyes

Auros

No

Just for information (between the bullets) wow economy is so broken due to the previous update before Legion, that it completely drove me out of the game. Garrisons made AH rip.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

No

Auros wrote: »

Just for information (between the bullets) wow economy is so broken due to the previous update before Legion, that it completely drove me out of the game. Garrisons made AH rip.

I agree but those are problems caused outwith the Auction House.

The AH isn't any more or less broken than it has ever been - which is to say for the vast majority of players for the vast majority of the game's life it works just fine.

All The Best

danno8

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Once again the only ppl against this are the traders monopolising the markets and scared of what it will do to there business .. argue all you want but when you see the same guilds over and over in the same area what about the other 200 maybe more guilds or the 10000+ players that have stuff to sell?

Seriously this cannot be upvoted enough.
only I'd add a 0 to the amount of players trying to sell things.
Trading Guilds are a joke. A pocket of players constantly advertising their guilds to collect more membership fees because the fact is that less than a dozen zones are decent spots for vendors, so you have about 50 slots for good vending places that the majority of players look at now and then, the rest of the slots mostly get looked at by the big trading guilds to get more mats cheaper.
Every MMO I've ever played has a way for ANY player to sell their stuff in an alternate way than spamming chat.

I mean even if it meant paying a fee to a guild vendor (that partly goes to the guild) to be able to list your item on THEIR vendor, would be acceptable in comparison. And really, there should be a way to browse all items on sale, all the time. Or at least more centralized than it is now. For example you should be able to see all items being sold in the zone by simply looking at ONE vendor. Why force you to check out and redo your searches 6 times?? And honestly that should expand to at least the immediatly adjacent zones as well. Game can force you to go to the proper vendor to buy it, but you should be able to find it and know where to go way faster than the way it is now.

You guys just don't get it. One centralized shop is a sure fire way to drive up prices. There is no way to corner the market with this system. You even stated that going to different kiosks is a pain, so why wold gms do that? There are players out there with millions that could easily buy up sought after items to inflate prices. As it stands now it's not effective to do so. The current system needs work. It needs a search function, possibly a higher player limit. I'm even for having some of the mobile merchants through out Tamriel offer a limited number of consignments.

I'm in 4 trade guilds, none of the nonsense people keep posting about a monopoly are true. The only thing going on between the gms is a promise not to bid on the others spots. Again the system needs work but I much prefer it to a global auction house.

Here is an example that is absolutely true. I was using TTC the other day to find Crafting Motif 40: Order Hour Helmets. TTC showed several places that had them for around 16-20k. I travelled to all of them only to find they were no longer there. Guess what started happening?

Within about 20 minutes TTC started showing all these motifs showing up in Elden Root for 50k each.

Someone in another thread already mentioned this, but with a limit of 77 kiosks, and only 500 allowed per guild, the most the game can have actively able to trade using the current system is 38500 people. In a game that probably has several hundred thousand active players per platform, that is just terrible exclusion of the majority of the playerbase.

Wolfshead

Yes

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

ZOS also said that Sub would get you access to ALL DLC.

Fun i have access to all DLC and dont you dare tell us that Morrowind is DLC for it is not for if you do you clear have not read all info and ZoS explain why Morrowind is not a DLC but a Chapter (expansion)

ZOS is the one selling the product. Of course they will explain why there is a difference (even if there wasn't one).

Woow talk about people be so naive it look like some people think that ZoS should not earn any money and the should not put out any "expansion" at all for people here think that we should only ge DLC patch for free so we dont have pay anything i just wonder where have you people been last 5 - 10 years this not only ZoS that is doing this take money for there "expansions" is one really common thing and it is not like the are 1st one doing.

But i guess that some people here is happy to get 1 small DLC content patch like dark brotherhood last only 1 week gameplay.

Stopnaggin

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

There isn't going to be 200,000 other people under cutting, you assume that those 200k people are going to try and sell the same items, it may be possible but it's not probable. Now you want to talk about undercutting, so now everyone starts undercutting to the point that all the stuff is worthless, so now who's gonna go out and farm those gold upgrade mats to sell?

The people who are genuinely not afraid of a little hard work to make their money.

All The Best

How many of them are out there, I farm a lot so I know what goes into it. But my point was that if 200k people are introduced do you or anyone else honestly think they will all be selling the same thing? I use tempers as an example, out of the entire player base how many are dedicated to farming? Not very many. Unless some is botting or on console using the Chinese farmers, they will be dependent on us that do farm. I don't sell my temps at exaggerated prices, but I also dont need to be undercut by above sources. But back to the op, with a limited supply a very few people could easily corner the market on any in demand item.