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Introduction to PvE damage calculation (Homestead)

  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @geonsocal Game experience counts for a lot too. That is how most people theorycraft and in general they get it right. My attempt is sort of going the other way around and starting from theory to derive what to do. This is a more time consuming approach but allows for more quantification rather than just this set is quite good but it's not too clear how much better it is.

    heck @Asayre ...based on the time, effort, meticulous attention to detail and thought you've placed in to this project - if you told me to spam nothing but pets and blood alter - i'd believe you :)
    PS4/NA (Cyro & IC): Vivec - This Must Be The Place...
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    @Asayre oh please do stamina nightblades! I will be like so grateful, like I'll dedicate a my best target skeleton time to you! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :heart:
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
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    #Stamblade
  • montiferus
    montiferus
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @montiferus, Were you using http://asayre.mygamesonline.org/CPOptimisation/CPOptimisation.html#? It should work. Sometimes the host breaks down since it is a free host. What problems did you run into?

    Ok this time it is working for me thanks!

  • caperon
    caperon
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @caperon
    Actually, I can sort of answer your question. What I did was to set up the stats as you described
    Frontbar: 2 illambris , 4 moondancer, 5 bsw (inferno bsw staff)
    Backabr: 2 illambris, 4 BSW, 5 moondacer (inferno moondancer staff)

    But then I gave the Frontbar the 5p bonus of Moondancer as well. So this allows every synergy the chance to activate Moondancer. The mean DPS was 43616 with a SD of 1560. SD of setups using Moondancer tend to be high due to the nature of the five piece bonus.

    Ty!
    Edited by caperon on February 11, 2017 1:38AM
    Once good, now bad.
  • Croblasta
    Croblasta
    Could you simulate 5 BSW / 5 Julianos 1 illambris or 5 BSW / 2 Illambris / 4 piece non trial gear?

    I don't have access to trial gear so I'm wondering what my other options are.
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    The mean DPS for 5 BSW/ 2 Illambris/ 4 Martial Knowledge (with a VMA Sharpened Inferno on the back bar) is 40801 with a SD 1072. I think Martial Knowledge is an easy to obtain set especially now given that lots of people are farming Craglorn.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • Senaxu
    Senaxu
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    @Asayre really great work! Is there a point(max magicka 53k+) where infused outshines divines on big pieces?

    thank you!

    Edited by Senaxu on February 15, 2017 2:19PM
    Unbroken EU
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  • GilGalad
    GilGalad
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    Senaxu wrote: »
    @Asayre really great work! Is there a point(max magicka 53k+) where infused outshines divines on big pieces?

    thank you!

    With increasing max magicka the effect of infused will be smaller, since the relative increase in max magicka is smaller. Same goes for crit assuming you use the thief mundus.

    But I don't think there is a realistic crit and max magicka value where infused outperforms divines.
    Animals Unchained | PC EU
    Homestead Theorycrafting
    Math of RNG
  • Haroeris
    Haroeris
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    Thank you for all this great work, @Asayre! Apologies if I missed it in your original post, but which (if any) group buffs did you include in your test, and in particular did you use Aggressive Horn and with what refresh rate?
    Edited by Haroeris on February 18, 2017 10:16PM
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    I was using Major Breach (100% uptime), Magicka potions (Spell Power and Spell Crit) and Synergy every 15 seconds on a Target Skeleton.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • Haroeris
    Haroeris
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    Thanks -- do you think Warhorn makes a difference in favor of TBS anymore (vs Julianos like in previous patches), with it being additive not multiplicative now? Still sounds like BSW is king, but I'm just curious.
    Edited by Haroeris on February 22, 2017 12:49AM
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    No, it shouldn't. Yes, I think BSW is probably the best for all magicka classes
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    GilGalad wrote: »
    Thank you very much for all the efforts. I can imagine how many hours of work went in there!

    The findings in terms of gear are pretty similar to the findings I derived from my spreadsheet, at least for the Sorcerer class. I also found that the theoretically perfect weaving dmg is a lot higher than the observed values and that perfect weavig can make a bigger difference than the gear.

    The only class that is a bit more complicated to approach in terms of gear and weapon choice is the templar class. In my spreadsheets there are 2 setups that are rather close to each other:
    Setup 1:
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 5 Moondancer (dual wield swords) and MSA inferno
    Bars:
    Dual wield: Radiant Destruction, Puncturing Sweeps, Reflective Light, [filler], Inner Light, Meteor
    MSA Inferno: Wall of Elements, Blazing Spear, Purifiying light, Rearming Trap, Inner Light, Meteor
    Setup 2
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 4 aether (lightning), MSA inferno
    Lightning: Puncturing Sweeps, Reflective Light, Rearming Trap, [filler], Inner Light, Meteor
    MSA Inferno: Wall of Elements, Blazing Spear, Purifiying light, Radiant Destruction, Inner Light, Meteor

    Skill prio: Rearming Trap >> Wall of Elements >> Purifiying Light >> Blazing Spear >> Reflective Light >> Radiant Destruction (30% ?) >> Puncturing Sweeps
    It might be useful to make a limit for the dots of 25% health, so below that only radiant and maybe trap will be casted.

    One could debate about using unstable wall instead of wall of elements but thats a small detail and not templar specific. The result will highly depend on the weaving error. The basic question when comparing these 2 is: Can good weaving with 2 staffs outperform the lower weaving dmg from dual wield and the additional set bonus you get?

    Would be interesting to see if the new staff passives can break the templar dual wield meta (and the endless grind to get these swords).

    If you don't have the time to run the simulations, send me a message. :wink:

    I did a slight variant of your question
    Setup 1
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 5 Moondancer and VMA Inferno

    A synergy event was provided every 15 seconds and it would only synergise if it did not have the Moondancer Spell Damage buff. The average uptime of the Moondancer Spell Damage buff is

    Bar setup
    1: Blazing Spear, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Empty, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Purifying Light > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweep

    The mean DPS for this setup was 36617 with a SD of 697.

    Setup 2
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (Lightning), VMA Inferno

    Bar setup
    1: Shock Clench, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Blazing Spear, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Purifying Light > Shock Clench > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweeps

    The mean DPS for this setup was 39566 with a SD of 840.

    For a single target fight, like in this simulation, it is advantageous to not use Shock Clench, Blazing Spear and Reflective Light.
    cdef240f1e6c849746f6077efa979e68.png

    I started Radiant at 15% and stopped all DoTs at 15% this is in accordance to previous calculations. My simulations tend to have low magicka at the end that's why I chose a low threshold to start Radiant. I ran simulations with different Radiant thresholds and found that 15% is roughly right.
    7f956d52a70b1807ad9eff19ee8baede.png
    While I don't have limits of my magicka going negative in the simulation, I limit the minimum magicka multiplier for Radiant Oppression to 1.

    In summary, I found that good weaving with a lightning staff (Setup 2: Mean DPS 39566) will outperform the extra damage and set bonus from dual wielding (Setup 1: Mean DPS 36617). As an extra, I ran simulations with 50% and 25% of LAs occuring for any ability and got a mean DPS of 38677 and 36799, respectively.


    Edit note for OP
    I’ve updated the sorcerer calculations because there was a simulation error that resulted in all DPS simulations to be overestimated by around 2k. The error was because sometimes x-x ~ 1e-15 which leads to some abilities triggering twice. I had previously rounded most of these into 0 but I forgot to in one particular section causing an overestimate in the DPS.

    Edit:
    I also managed to reduce my simulation time from ~15 minutes to ~5 minutes by increasing my RAM from 8 to 12 GB. I don't know why my simulation time when down but it did...
    Edited by Asayre on March 2, 2017 6:51AM
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • GilGalad
    GilGalad
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    Asayre wrote: »
    GilGalad wrote: »
    Thank you very much for all the efforts. I can imagine how many hours of work went in there!

    The findings in terms of gear are pretty similar to the findings I derived from my spreadsheet, at least for the Sorcerer class. I also found that the theoretically perfect weaving dmg is a lot higher than the observed values and that perfect weavig can make a bigger difference than the gear.

    The only class that is a bit more complicated to approach in terms of gear and weapon choice is the templar class. In my spreadsheets there are 2 setups that are rather close to each other:
    Setup 1:
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 5 Moondancer (dual wield swords) and MSA inferno
    Bars:
    Dual wield: Radiant Destruction, Puncturing Sweeps, Reflective Light, [filler], Inner Light, Meteor
    MSA Inferno: Wall of Elements, Blazing Spear, Purifiying light, Rearming Trap, Inner Light, Meteor
    Setup 2
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 4 aether (lightning), MSA inferno
    Lightning: Puncturing Sweeps, Reflective Light, Rearming Trap, [filler], Inner Light, Meteor
    MSA Inferno: Wall of Elements, Blazing Spear, Purifiying light, Radiant Destruction, Inner Light, Meteor

    Skill prio: Rearming Trap >> Wall of Elements >> Purifiying Light >> Blazing Spear >> Reflective Light >> Radiant Destruction (30% ?) >> Puncturing Sweeps
    It might be useful to make a limit for the dots of 25% health, so below that only radiant and maybe trap will be casted.

    One could debate about using unstable wall instead of wall of elements but thats a small detail and not templar specific. The result will highly depend on the weaving error. The basic question when comparing these 2 is: Can good weaving with 2 staffs outperform the lower weaving dmg from dual wield and the additional set bonus you get?

    Would be interesting to see if the new staff passives can break the templar dual wield meta (and the endless grind to get these swords).

    If you don't have the time to run the simulations, send me a message. :wink:

    I did a slight variant of your question
    Setup 1
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 5 Moondancer and VMA Inferno

    A synergy event was provided every 15 seconds and it would only synergise if it did not have the Moondancer Spell Damage buff. The average uptime of the Moondancer Spell Damage buff is

    Bar setup
    1: Blazing Spear, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Empty, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Purifying Light > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweep

    The mean DPS for this setup was 36617 with a SD of 697.

    Setup 2
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (Lightning), VMA Inferno

    Bar setup
    1: Shock Clench, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Blazing Spear, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Purifying Light > Shock Clench > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweeps

    The mean DPS for this setup was 39566 with a SD of 840.

    For a single target fight, like in this simulation, it is advantageous to not use Shock Clench, Blazing Spear and Reflective Light.
    cdef240f1e6c849746f6077efa979e68.png

    I started Radiant at 15% and stopped all DoTs at 15% this is in accordance to previous calculations. My simulations tend to have low magicka at the end that's why I chose a low threshold to start Radiant. I ran simulations with different Radiant thresholds and found that 15% is roughly right.
    7f956d52a70b1807ad9eff19ee8baede.png
    While I don't have limits of my magicka going negative in the simulation, I limit the minimum magicka multiplier for Radiant Oppression to 1.

    In summary, I found that good weaving with a lightning staff (Setup 2: Mean DPS 39566) will outperform the extra damage and set bonus from dual wielding (Setup 1: Mean DPS 36617). As an extra, I ran simulations with 50% and 25% of LAs occuring for any ability and got a mean DPS of 38677 and 36799, respectively.


    Edit note for OP
    I’ve updated the sorcerer calculations because there was a simulation error that resulted in all DPS simulations to be overestimated by around 2k. The error was because sometimes x-x ~ 1e-15 which leads to some abilities triggering twice. I had previously rounded most of these into 0 but I forgot to in one particular section causing an overestimate in the DPS.

    Edit:
    I also managed to reduce my simulation time from ~15 minutes to ~5 minutes by increasing my RAM from 8 to 12 GB. I don't know why my simulation time when down but it did...
    Thank you for running the simulations!

    The setup with the dual wield will loose a lot of dmg in practice because you need to have a aedric spear ability on each bar for the 10% crit passive. I guess you did not implement it like that?
    Is there a reason why you did not use trap?
    The best results would be reached with Guard on both bars, but that's impossible to play in most raids.

    Unfortunately I still don't have the swords for testing it but I got some decent results with the lightning staff setup. You could consider keeping the wall of elements up all the time in order to keep BSW uptimes high.

    Since we found that weaving can make a big difference we could try another setup with 2 Grothdarr, 5 Julianos, 5 Moondancer, VMA Lightning frontbar:
    Dual wield: radiant, blazing spear, trap, empty, inner light, meteor
    Lightning: wall of elements, sweeps, purifiying light, reflective light, meteor/destro ulti

    Animals Unchained | PC EU
    Homestead Theorycrafting
    Math of RNG
  • Artis
    Artis
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    I'm just curious - did anyone run this for other weapons? I'm wondering how this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/324665/twilight-force-magicka-templar-magicka-nightblade-ranged-vma-dd-build-homestead-ready compares to mainstream builds, including the solo setting.
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    GilGalad wrote: »
    Thank you for running the simulations!

    The setup with the dual wield will loose a lot of dmg in practice because you need to have a aedric spear ability on each bar for the 10% crit passive. I guess you did not implement it like that?
    Is there a reason why you did not use trap?
    The best results would be reached with Guard on both bars, but that's impossible to play in most raids.

    Unfortunately I still don't have the swords for testing it but I got some decent results with the lightning staff setup. You could consider keeping the wall of elements up all the time in order to keep BSW uptimes high.

    Since we found that weaving can make a big difference we could try another setup with 2 Grothdarr, 5 Julianos, 5 Moondancer, VMA Lightning frontbar:
    Dual wield: radiant, blazing spear, trap, empty, inner light, meteor
    Lightning: wall of elements, sweeps, purifiying light, reflective light, meteor/destro ulti

    I should have mentioned that I cheat a bit and give all my magicka templar (and nightblade) simulations crit damage automatically with the assumption that an Aedric Spear ability is slotted but occasionally I forget about it when thinking about bars and rotations. I didn't use Trap in either of those setups because I was trying to see if I could make Ilambris work somehow with shock light attacks and shock clench but it wasn't very favourable. So here are the simulations with rearming trap incorporated. There is no real reason as to why I placed Rearming Trap in that priority.

    Setup 1
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 5 Moondancer and VMA Inferno

    A synergy event was provided every 15 seconds and it would only synergise if it did not have the Moondancer Spell Damage buff. The average uptime of the Moondancer Spell Damage buff is 64%

    Bar setup
    1: Rearming Trap, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Blazing Spear, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Rearming Trap > Purifying Light > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweep

    The mean DPS for this setup was 37671 with a SD of 803.

    Setup 2
    2 Grothdarr, 5 BSW, 4 Moondancer (Lightning), VMA Inferno

    Bar setup
    1: Shock Clench, Puncturing Sweeps, Purifying Light, Reflective Light, Inner Light, Shooting Star
    2: Blockade of Fire, Blazing Spear, Radiant Oppression, Channeled Focus, Inner Light, Fiery Rage

    Skill rotation was
    Shooting Star > Purifying Light > Rearming Trap > Blockade of Fire > Blazing Spear > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression > Puncturing Sweeps

    The mean DPS for this setup was 40742 with a SD of 968.

    I'm not sure whether your setup with 2 Grothdarr, 5 Julianos, 5 Moondancer, VMA Lightning frontbar is very practical. I feel that it will be very clunky to bar swap to get synergies and then bar swap to continue what you were doing. Anyway, I simulated it and as I usually do for sets that have Moondancer on one bar I give it to both bars so it's sort of saying that you bar swap to synergise (if you don't have the spell damage buff already) every 15s and there is no time penalty for doing so. I got a mean DPS of 40146 with a SD of 1142.

    Those perfect weaves are incredible aren't they.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • GilGalad
    GilGalad
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    Yeah the weaves are really incredible. One can not say that top DPS is not about skill. The moondancer dual wield setups might be more forgiving in terms of weaving, but im glad to see that the dual destro setup, that I'm using since Homestead launch, can potentially outperform the dual wield setups.

    So thank you again for running the simulations and saving me tons of hours farming Moondancer swords! :lol:

    Some remarks on rotations:
    The reason why I stopped spending time to think about a way to determine the perfect rotation and skill layout, that goes further than sorting cast priorities by dmg per casttime is that there are so many passives that restrict the skillbar layout. Especially the new destro passive, that is only active with a destro skill on your bar and only affects AOE or single target skills. For the Templar the only choice you have is where to put Purifiying Light, Reflective Light, Trap and Harness magicka, which is mostly determined by the skill duration, since in reality weapon swaps cost a little time. There might be a mathematically optimal layout, but it could be horrible to play with weapons swaps only for one skill etc.
    So in the end it comes down to player preferences, where to put skills in order to refresh all dots and buffs perfectly.
    Animals Unchained | PC EU
    Homestead Theorycrafting
    Math of RNG
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    Artis wrote: »
    I'm just curious - did anyone run this for other weapons? I'm wondering how this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/324665/twilight-force-magicka-templar-magicka-nightblade-ranged-vma-dd-build-homestead-ready compares to mainstream builds, including the solo setting.

    I had a quick browse of that link and tried to simulate it.

    Gear
    2 Ilambris, 5 Spinner, 3 Infallible with a Infallible Inferno front bar (Charged) and a Maelstrom Lightning (Ninrhoned) on backbar.

    The skill priority I used was
    Skill rotation was
    Thunderous Rage > Blockade of Storms > Ritual of Retribution > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression* > Force Pulse

    Radiant Oppression starts at 15% and all other DoTs are stopped at 15%. For the bars I assumed that you have an Aedric Spear on the back bar.

    I'm not a 100% sure how charged works so for the simulation I just assumes that it is multiplicative with Ancient Knowledge. I applied the Charge trait to both bars as I don't have the proper structure to have Charged affect one bar only. While Concussion is implemented in the simulation I have yet to put in off-balance yet so I just gave a constant 10% increased damage to simulate a target being Off-balance all the time. Contrary to the guide, I light attack weave with every skill instead of medium attack weave

    The mean DPS for this setup was 34375 with a SD of 674. Minor Vulnerability uptime was 74% with a SD of 9.6%. Maybe my simulations are missing something from this unusual build. But I don't have the parts to test further discrepancies between my simulation and that build.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    @Asayre
    As always, it's awesome seeing your data and research when it comes to dps calculations.

    Have you tested necropentence at all since the new update? Pets have been buffed and I have a feeling pet sorcs with necropentence could rival ones that wear bsw
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    Just to confirm, it sounds like if the target has some resistances then 8% Minor Vulnerability debuff on the target results in significantly higher damage than 8% Minor Berserk buff on me, correct?
  • GilGalad
    GilGalad
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    Just to confirm, it sounds like if the target has some resistances then 8% Minor Vulnerability debuff on the target results in significantly higher damage than 8% Minor Berserk buff on me, correct?

    It does not depend on the target resistance, but on the other dmg buffs you have. Minor Berserk is additive with racial passives, staff and dual wield passives, etc. The more additive bonis you have, the less is the relative impact.
    Minor vulnerability on the other hand side is multiplicative with all your dmg, therefore you always get the full 8% dmg increase in DPS. It would be interesting to test how minor vulnerability stacks with the 10% fire dmg taken from engulfing flames.
    Animals Unchained | PC EU
    Homestead Theorycrafting
    Math of RNG
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    @mr_wazzabi

    I have simulated using Volatile Familiar in place of Inner Light and the results are promising. With 2 Ilambris, 5 Necropotence, 3/4 Moondancer and a Maelstrom staff on the backbar the mean DPS is 42775 compared to 42082 with the usual no pet rotation (2 Ilambris, 5 BSW, 3/4 Moondancer, Maelstrom backbar). But I'm still not a fan of the difficulty in controlling a pet also my pet died several times in Ruins of Mazzatun =(

    @GilGalad
    I believe the 10% fire damage taken from Engulfing Flames is additive with Minor Vulnerability.
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @mr_wazzabi

    I have simulated using Volatile Familiar in place of Inner Light and the results are promising. With 2 Ilambris, 5 Necropotence, 3/4 Moondancer and a Maelstrom staff on the backbar the mean DPS is 42775 compared to 42082 with the usual no pet rotation (2 Ilambris, 5 BSW, 3/4 Moondancer, Maelstrom backbar). But I'm still not a fan of the difficulty in controlling a pet also my pet died several times in Ruins of Mazzatun =(

    @GilGalad
    I believe the 10% fire damage taken from Engulfing Flames is additive with Minor Vulnerability.

    That's promising indeed!

    Looks like moondancer could be a bis candidate for wardens when they come out.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • GilGalad
    GilGalad
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    Asayre wrote: »
    @mr_wazzabi

    I have simulated using Volatile Familiar in place of Inner Light and the results are promising. With 2 Ilambris, 5 Necropotence, 3/4 Moondancer and a Maelstrom staff on the backbar the mean DPS is 42775 compared to 42082 with the usual no pet rotation (2 Ilambris, 5 BSW, 3/4 Moondancer, Maelstrom backbar). But I'm still not a fan of the difficulty in controlling a pet also my pet died several times in Ruins of Mazzatun =(

    @GilGalad
    I believe the 10% fire damage taken from Engulfing Flames is additive with Minor Vulnerability.



    You better start practicing how to keep your pet alive! :wink:
    Pet Sorc performs way better than any other class atm and even without the pet they deal really decent DPS.
    Animals Unchained | PC EU
    Homestead Theorycrafting
    Math of RNG
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Asayre wrote: »
    Artis wrote: »
    I'm just curious - did anyone run this for other weapons? I'm wondering how this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/324665/twilight-force-magicka-templar-magicka-nightblade-ranged-vma-dd-build-homestead-ready compares to mainstream builds, including the solo setting.

    I had a quick browse of that link and tried to simulate it.

    Gear
    2 Ilambris, 5 Spinner, 3 Infallible with a Infallible Inferno front bar (Charged) and a Maelstrom Lightning (Ninrhoned) on backbar.

    The skill priority I used was
    Skill rotation was
    Thunderous Rage > Blockade of Storms > Ritual of Retribution > Reflective Light > Radiant Oppression* > Force Pulse

    Radiant Oppression starts at 15% and all other DoTs are stopped at 15%. For the bars I assumed that you have an Aedric Spear on the back bar.

    I'm not a 100% sure how charged works so for the simulation I just assumes that it is multiplicative with Ancient Knowledge. I applied the Charge trait to both bars as I don't have the proper structure to have Charged affect one bar only. While Concussion is implemented in the simulation I have yet to put in off-balance yet so I just gave a constant 10% increased damage to simulate a target being Off-balance all the time. Contrary to the guide, I light attack weave with every skill instead of medium attack weave

    The mean DPS for this setup was 34375 with a SD of 674. Minor Vulnerability uptime was 74% with a SD of 9.6%. Maybe my simulations are missing something from this unusual build. But I don't have the parts to test further discrepancies between my simulation and that build.

    The power of the build is coming from medium weaves. Off balance targets take 40% extra damage from heavy attacks so that makes a huge difference! :)

    Charged is working as you thought, but the uptime with a shock glyph is around 95-100% based on my hours of testing.
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  • sebban
    sebban
    ✭✭✭✭
    @Asayre
    What are your thoughts on DKs using Flame Lash / Power Lash in raids? Off Balance is more or less always up, since 1-2 healers and possibly a DD try to keep Wall of Storms up at all times. Using Flame Lash / Power Lash gives DKs higher DPS. But Power Lash seems to consume the Off Balance status effect until the next tick of Wall of Elements, giving Off Balance lower uptime. This should mean lower DPS for other DDs.
    My question is: Is Flame Lash / Power Lash a detriment or benefit to total raid DPS?
    PC EU
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  • Asayre
    Asayre
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @sebban

    I think it is raid dependent, in particular, it depends on how much it changes the uptime of Off Balance.

    The magicka coefficient for Molten Whip and Power Lash are 0.10074 and 0.22012, respectively. From some parses, I estimate that Molten Whip contributes about 17% to DPS. From this I conclude that under ideal situations where you are always using Power Lash you will expect a DPS increase of ~17%. So in a raid with 7 other DPS this will lead to a group DPS increase of about 2%

    Let's say that every DPS in the raid has the Exploiter passive. In which case a 2% DPS increase is approximately a 20% uptime on Off Balance (probably more because I assume that the Exploiter passive is additive with other Damage Done modifiers like Minor Berserk).

    So I would say that it's worth it to use Power Lash if you don't cause the average Off Balance uptime to drop by more than 20%.

    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
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